Looking to Build a Desktop For the Best Bang For the Buck

[Lewdog]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

 

[TheOldSchool]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

I used this site to build mine: Pick Parts, Build Your PC, Compare and Share - PCPartPicker

I suggest building an example of what you would like there, print it out, and take it to a PC store in your area to ask the employees opinions there. That's what I did and my store matched Amazon's and Newegg's prices. They advised me to switch out maybe 2 or 3 components for better ones. The PC runs great.

 

[Lewdog]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

I used this site to build mine: Pick Parts, Build Your PC, Compare and Share - PCPartPicker

I suggest building an example of what you would like there, print it out, and take it to a PC store in your area to ask the employees opinions there. That's what I did and my store matched Amazon's and Newegg's prices. They advised me to switch out maybe 2 or 3 components for better ones. The PC runs great.

I wish there was a PC sore in my area. I'd have to drive to Lexington or Knoxville to find one with parts on hand. The only PC shops close to where I live are basically average Joe guys who do a little work on a PC and have no stock parts. Thanks for the website though!

 

[TheOldSchool]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

I used this site to build mine: Pick Parts, Build Your PC, Compare and Share - PCPartPicker

I suggest building an example of what you would like there, print it out, and take it to a PC store in your area to ask the employees opinions there. That's what I did and my store matched Amazon's and Newegg's prices. They advised me to switch out maybe 2 or 3 components for better ones. The PC runs great.

I wish there was a PC sore in my area. I'd have to drive to Lexington or Knoxville to find one with parts on hand. The only PC shops close to where I live are basically average Joe guys who do a little work on a PC and have no stock parts. Thanks for the website though!

It's a great site. Check Newegg.com too. They always have sales and I believe they had the best prices when I bought my stuff earlier this year.

 

[Lewdog]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

I used this site to build mine: Pick Parts, Build Your PC, Compare and Share - PCPartPicker

I suggest building an example of what you would like there, print it out, and take it to a PC store in your area to ask the employees opinions there. That's what I did and my store matched Amazon's and Newegg's prices. They advised me to switch out maybe 2 or 3 components for better ones. The PC runs great.

I wish there was a PC sore in my area. I'd have to drive to Lexington or Knoxville to find one with parts on hand. The only PC shops close to where I live are basically average Joe guys who do a little work on a PC and have no stock parts. Thanks for the website though!

It's a great site. Check Newegg.com too. They always have sales and I believe they had the best prices when I bought my stuff earlier this year.

Yeah I used to buy all my stuff off Newegg. They used to be the cheapest, now not so much. Amazon is so much easier these days because it gives you prices from all over the web. There was another computer site that had cheap prices but I can't remember the name of it anymore.

 

[SYTFE]

Skip all the bullshit and buy an iMac!

 

[Lewdog]

Skip all the bullshit and buy an iMac!

Uhhh no! I like having my own setups. The last three comps I've had have all been windows based customs. Besides I'm on a budget.

Right now with the setup I've got picked, I'm looking at about $650-$700.

 

[Ringel05]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

You can get an AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5 GHz (4.1 GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 95W FD6300WMHKBOX Desktop Processor
for as little as $100 via NewEgg.

 

[Lewdog]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

You can get an AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5 GHz (4.1 GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 95W FD6300WMHKBOX Desktop Processor
for as little as $100 via NewEgg.

Is it true that when it says 6 core, it is really only a three core though? I get so confused when you read about Intel processors against AMD ones.

 

[Moonglow]

I started buying parts off of Jet..

 

[Pogo]

I started buying parts off of Jet..

I think I was on that plane later. Thanks a lot.

 

[Moonglow]

I started buying parts off of Jet..

I think I was on that plane later. Thanks a lot.

With Paul McCartney?

 

[Ringel05]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

You can get an AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5 GHz (4.1 GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 95W FD6300WMHKBOX Desktop Processor
for as little as $100 via NewEgg.

Is it true that when it says 6 core, it is really only a three core though? I get so confused when you read about Intel processors against AMD ones.

Depends on the mobo, you would probably have to upgrade the one you have listed but if you go with a six or eight core now that's one component you probably won't have to upgrade the next time.

 

[Lewdog]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

You can get an AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5 GHz (4.1 GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 95W FD6300WMHKBOX Desktop Processor
for as little as $100 via NewEgg.

Is it true that when it says 6 core, it is really only a three core though? I get so confused when you read about Intel processors against AMD ones.

Depends on the mobo, you would probably have to upgrade the one you have listed but if you go with a six or eight core now that's one component you probably won't have to upgrade the next time.

Yeah that processor won't fit in that MoBo, and I'd have to find a MoBo that is AM3+ that also has a PCI-e 3.0 x16 slot.

 

[HenryBHough]

Build the perfect PC from the hardware perspective then go screw it up with Windows.

Why not just buy a POS off-the-shelf, pre befouled with Windows, and save a ton of work?

 

[Lewdog]

I will be using Windows 7 ultimate. I don't like Windows 10.

 

[Ringel05]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

You can get an AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5 GHz (4.1 GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 95W FD6300WMHKBOX Desktop Processor
for as little as $100 via NewEgg.

Is it true that when it says 6 core, it is really only a three core though? I get so confused when you read about Intel processors against AMD ones.

Depends on the mobo, you would probably have to upgrade the one you have listed but if you go with a six or eight core now that's one component you probably won't have to upgrade the next time.

Yeah that processor won't fit in that MoBo, and I'd have to find a MoBo that is AM3+ that also has a PCI-e 3.0 x16 slot.

Yup. Or you could spend your money on an Intel chip (Haswell), the i5 quad is actually one of the best all around but it's expensive, the i3 is only a dual core but is faster than the current AMD quad core crop of processors. AMD has yet to catch up with intel's i series processor technology.

 

[Lewdog]

I really do need a new desktop computer. The one I have now is like Five years old, slow, and messes up quite often. I have been doing a little research to find the best value vs. performance I can find. And here is the stuff I have found so far. All the prices are off Amazon, so if you have any ideas for better value and a place to find better prices let me know.


AMD Quad Core A10-Series APU for Desktops A10-6800K with Radeon HD 8670D (AD680KWOHLBOX)
$128


ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
$97


Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
$95


Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-02 Mid Tower Gaming Case
$50


Corsair Air Series AF120 LED Quiet Edition High Airflow Fan Twin Pack - Red
$18


Arctic Silver 5 AS5-3.5G Thermal Paste
$7


ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti Mini, 4GB GDDR5 DisplayPort 128-bit PCI-E Graphic Card (ZT-P10510A-10L)
$160


Lite-On 24X SATA Internal DVD+/-RW Drive Optical Drive IHAS124-14 + Nero 12 Essentials Burning Software + Sata Cable Kit
$22


EVGA 550N1, 550W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0550-L1
$41


WD Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX)
$50

You can get an AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5 GHz (4.1 GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 95W FD6300WMHKBOX Desktop Processor
for as little as $100 via NewEgg.

Is it true that when it says 6 core, it is really only a three core though? I get so confused when you read about Intel processors against AMD ones.

Depends on the mobo, you would probably have to upgrade the one you have listed but if you go with a six or eight core now that's one component you probably won't have to upgrade the next time.

Yeah that processor won't fit in that MoBo, and I'd have to find a MoBo that is AM3+ that also has a PCI-e 3.0 x16 slot.

Yup. Or you could spend your money on an Intel chip (Haswell), the i5 quad is actually one of the best all around but it's expensive, the i3 is only a dual core but is faster than the current AMD quad core crop of processors. AMD has yet to catch up with intel's i series processor technology.

Well here is the MoBo I like that will fit that 6 core chip you showed, however I can't see anywhere that it says if the PCI-e x16 slot is 2.0 or 3.0. It is about $30 more than the board I had chosen.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008B6ONXK/?tag=ff0d01-20

 

[Ringel05]

You can get an AMD FX-6300 Vishera 6-Core 3.5 GHz (4.1 GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 95W FD6300WMHKBOX Desktop Processor
for as little as $100 via NewEgg.

Is it true that when it says 6 core, it is really only a three core though? I get so confused when you read about Intel processors against AMD ones.

Depends on the mobo, you would probably have to upgrade the one you have listed but if you go with a six or eight core now that's one component you probably won't have to upgrade the next time.

Yeah that processor won't fit in that MoBo, and I'd have to find a MoBo that is AM3+ that also has a PCI-e 3.0 x16 slot.

Yup. Or you could spend your money on an Intel chip (Haswell), the i5 quad is actually one of the best all around but it's expensive, the i3 is only a dual core but is faster than the current AMD quad core crop of processors. AMD has yet to catch up with intel's i series processor technology.

Well here is the MoBo I like that will fit that 6 core chip you showed, however I can't see anywhere that it says if the PCI-e x16 slot is 2.0 or 3.0. It is about $30 more than the board I had chosen.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008B6ONXK/?tag=ff0d01-20

ASUS USA

 

[Lewdog]

Is it true that when it says 6 core, it is really only a three core though? I get so confused when you read about Intel processors against AMD ones.

Depends on the mobo, you would probably have to upgrade the one you have listed but if you go with a six or eight core now that's one component you probably won't have to upgrade the next time.

Yeah that processor won't fit in that MoBo, and I'd have to find a MoBo that is AM3+ that also has a PCI-e 3.0 x16 slot.

Yup. Or you could spend your money on an Intel chip (Haswell), the i5 quad is actually one of the best all around but it's expensive, the i3 is only a dual core but is faster than the current AMD quad core crop of processors. AMD has yet to catch up with intel's i series processor technology.

Well here is the MoBo I like that will fit that 6 core chip you showed, however I can't see anywhere that it says if the PCI-e x16 slot is 2.0 or 3.0. It is about $30 more than the board I had chosen.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008B6ONXK/?tag=ff0d01-20

ASUS USA

So it doesn't.

That compatibility web page says that graphics card will still work in it. So maybe it would be fine.