London: Years of Liberal Dogma.

[Colin]

I suspect that Colin's response is partisan hackery based on my numerous interactions with Brits on the old MSN UK boards. On those boards, there were Brits from all walks of life and with various political convictions. Colin's opinion is just that, one Brit's opinion that is one of many. I sure the hell wouldn't base any opinion on just Colin's perception. Knowing the the UK's version of conservatives would fall into the RINO camp in the US, I suspect Colin is of the far right grouping.

You dismiss Colin's opinion because it's only the opinion of one individual, and then go on to make a sweeping statement about British Conservatism based on the people you have interacted with on message boards.



Really?

Maybe you should interact with more Brits?
Just like here in the US, there are varying degrees of conservatives and liberals. Colin reminded me of the more far right conservatives that I interacted with. So I stated that!
So shoot me.

Oh boy! Are you a comedian or just plain thick! Tiger is a Brit! So much for YOUR expert opinions.

 

[Colin]

Then you would be wrong!

And that's your opinion, which you have every right to state. My opinion is based on over a thousand of interactions with Brits on a political discussion board like this one.

NOTE TO COLIN: For god's sake man, stop interacting with real people and interact with them only online in future!



Kiwi, your posts are making the wait for the next Seinfeld repeat a lot easier to deal with.

I think you may have a point Tiger!

 

[Colin]

Lol! Another expert from 8,000 miles away! Before you respond with such asinine partisan hackery, just make sure you are on firm ground, which you are not in this case. This has nothing to do with whether the rioters and looters are liberals, cons, independents or nazis! it as everything to do with liberalist policies implemented over the years. It has everything to do with the breakdown of discipline and the lack of appropriate punishment as a deterrent.

It started with the policies of banning completely any form of corporal punishment in schools right down to the situation that even if a teacher lays a hand on a pupil, even to restrain, they will be subjected to suspension, probably court and loss of job. Liberal policies have stripped teachers of the tools necessary to maintain control in the education environment. Liberalist policies also determined that competition was a bad thing for young children, so what did they force through. Competitive games were banned in most primary schools. Give us a break! Life is one huge competition!

We have seen the abolishment of the death sentence and the huge watering down of judicial sentencing to the extent that many criminals now receive nothing more than a slap on the wrist and a community sentence of a few weeks tidying the streets.

There are thousand upon thousand of teenage girls who want to get pregnant. Why? So thay get free accommodation, free furniture, washing machine etc and a montly income. The more brats they pump out, the more income they gain.

These fucking scum bags aren't poor! They all have expensive cell phones wear designer clothes, smoke and drink. What you don't see, as I have this morning, are these same scumbags leaving courts and giving V signs and saying who cares. They ain't gonna jail us!

I could go on, but quite frankly I know I would be wasting my breath. After all, some of you guys seem to think you know more about foreign countries than those who live in them! Just keep you partisan hackery for your own politics for it's more than obvious you know fuck all about ours!

I suspect that Colin's response is partisan hackery based on my numerous interactions with Brits on the old MSN UK boards. On those boards, there were Brits from all walks of life and with various political convictions. Colin's opinion is just that, one Brit's opinion that is one of many. I sure the hell wouldn't base any opinion on just Colin's perception. Knowing the the UK's version of conservatives would fall into the RINO camp in the US, I suspect Colin is of the far right grouping.

No, he's actually a real conservative as far as I can tell.

I don't know what a real conservative is any more, Ravi. These days there is little to vote for, but much to vote against!

 

[tigerbob]

You dismiss Colin's opinion because it's only the opinion of one individual, and then go on to make a sweeping statement about British Conservatism based on the people you have interacted with on message boards.



Really?

Maybe you should interact with more Brits?
Just like here in the US, there are varying degrees of conservatives and liberals. Colin reminded me of the more far right conservatives that I interacted with. So I stated that!
So shoot me.

Oh boy! Are you a comedian or just plain thick! Tiger is a Brit! So much for YOUR expert opinions.

But clearly I don't interact with enough Brits online.

This is a classic illustration of how, despite "interacting" with somebody, it is still possible to know almost nothing about a person's background.

 

[editec]

You guys throw around the word 'poor' as though it has some actual meaning.
It does not, in the era of the welfare state.

Free healthcare for life, all the accoutrements that accrue in a liberal welfare socialist environmment....

...did you know that unemployment benefits are forever?
"...It is paid until you find work."
Unemployment benefits explained | Consumer affairs | Times Online


History isn't enough proof for you??
London on fire isn't enough proof?

Wise up: free-market and traditional values or what we are witnessing.

Did you miss the meaning of this, PC?

And the solution is NOT a welfare state, it's a WORK-FAIR state.

Apparently you did.

WELFARE is the burden that society bears for the failings of the economy.

It does NOT solve the problem, it merely kicks the can down the road.

Those kids are NOT part of their society in any meaningful way, they are wards of the state and wards without ADULT supervision.

Ever hear thing adage, PC?

Idle hands are the devil's playthings.

If we want to solve this kind of problem, finding ways to integrate those skilless and economically unviable kids into society in a way that gives them some damned good reason to work is the way to do it.

Sadly, there is no way to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I feel spanked, Techy.

No, I didn't actually miss it, but I did see it as a deflection, so pushed it to the side.

In other words, you responded to what you wished I'd said rather than what I actually penned.

I want an admission that society has strayed far from the correct path. Cradle-to-grave is not a safety net.

Now when have I suggested otherwise? Never. I know it's a lot more fun to debate a strawman, but I'm not that guy.

Small government, individual rights and personal responsibility.
"It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which
freedom can securely stand." John Adams.

You know I so don't give a flying fig about some taken out of context quote of the floundering fathers. Their world and mine are vastly different.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"With a welfare system far more advanced than the United States, the British have achieved the remarkable result of turning entire communities of ancestral British people into tattooed, drunken brutes.

I guess we now have the proof of what conservatives have been saying since forever: Looting is a result of liberal welfare policies. And Britain is in the end stages of the welfare state.


The Daily Mail (London) traced the family's proud Anglo ancestry of stable families back hundreds of years. The Nazi war machine couldn't break the British, but the modern welfare state has.

Britain has a far more redistributive welfare system than France, which is why France's crime problem is mostly a matter of Muslim immigrants, not French nationals. Meanwhile, England's welfare state is fast returning the native population to its violent 18th-century highwaymen roots.

Needless to say, Britain leads Europe in the proportion of single mothers and, as a consequence, also leads or co-leads the European Union in violent crime, alcohol and drug abuse, obesity and sexually transmitted diseases.

But liberal elites here and in Britain will blame anything but the welfare state they adore. They drone on about the strict British class system or the lack of jobs or the nation's history of racism."
The Sun Never Sets On The British Welfare System - HUMAN EVENTS

Article pretty much says just what Colin posted.

 

[PoliticalChic]

More, this from Theodore Dalrymple:
The riots are the apotheosis of the welfare state and popular culture in their British form. A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice. It believes itself deprived (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class), even though each member of it has received an education costing $80,000, toward which neither he nor—quite likely—any member of his family has made much of a contribution; indeed, he may well have lived his entire life at others’ expense, such that every mouthful of food he has ever eaten, every shirt he has ever worn, every television he has ever watched, has been provided by others. Even if he were to recognize this, he would not be grateful, for dependency does not promote gratitude. On the contrary, he would simply feel that the subventions were not sufficient to allow him to live as he would have liked.
British Degeneracy on Parade by Theodore Dalrymple - City Journal

 

[tigerbob]

"With a welfare system far more advanced than the United States, the British have achieved the remarkable result of turning entire communities of ancestral British people into tattooed, drunken brutes.

I guess we now have the proof of what conservatives have been saying since forever: Looting is a result of liberal welfare policies. And Britain is in the end stages of the welfare state.


The Daily Mail (London) traced the family's proud Anglo ancestry of stable families back hundreds of years. The Nazi war machine couldn't break the British, but the modern welfare state has.

Britain has a far more redistributive welfare system than France, which is why France's crime problem is mostly a matter of Muslim immigrants, not French nationals. Meanwhile, England's welfare state is fast returning the native population to its violent 18th-century highwaymen roots.

Needless to say, Britain leads Europe in the proportion of single mothers and, as a consequence, also leads or co-leads the European Union in violent crime, alcohol and drug abuse, obesity and sexually transmitted diseases.

But liberal elites here and in Britain will blame anything but the welfare state they adore. They drone on about the strict British class system or the lack of jobs or the nation's history of racism."
The Sun Never Sets On The British Welfare System - HUMAN EVENTS

Article pretty much says just what Colin posted.

Congratulations, Britain! You've barbarized your citizenry, without regard to race, gender or physical handicap!

One of the funniest quotes I've read all year!

 

[kiwiman127]

You dismiss Colin's opinion because it's only the opinion of one individual, and then go on to make a sweeping statement about British Conservatism based on the people you have interacted with on message boards.



Really?

Maybe you should interact with more Brits?
Just like here in the US, there are varying degrees of conservatives and liberals. Colin reminded me of the more far right conservatives that I interacted with. So I stated that!
So shoot me.

Oh boy! Are you a comedian or just plain thick! Tiger is a Brit! So much for YOUR expert opinions.

Did I ever say I had an expert opinion? No. All I did was use my experience with Brits from various ideological stances. But you two won't accept that.
Secondly, I found that when you belittled opinions of those "8,000 miles" away, you come off as pretentious. (Actually Ravi is just over 3,000 miles awy from the UK.) In the age of our world's communication technology, people anywhere can get a pretty good handle of another nation's pulse. I found that with the Brits and I find that with my relatives spread out along the Pacific Rim countries regarding the US & UK.
Lastly, why would I know Tiger is a Brit? If I didn't include "kiwi" as part of my screen name, one would never have a clue that I'm originally from New Zealand, would they?

 

[Ravi]

I love it! The French are better than the Brits! Good thing we had that revolution.

 

[Swagger]

I love it! The French are better than the Brits! Good thing we had that revolution.

Both former and latter are debatable. But hey, at least you've had the benefit of our enduring legacy, non?

 

[Ravi]

I love it! The French are better than the Brits! Good thing we had that revolution.

Both former and latter are debatable. But hey, at least you've had the benefit of our enduring legacy, non?

No, we have dentists.

 

[Colin]

Maybe you should interact with more Brits?
Just like here in the US, there are varying degrees of conservatives and liberals. Colin reminded me of the more far right conservatives that I interacted with. So I stated that!
So shoot me.

Oh boy! Are you a comedian or just plain thick! Tiger is a Brit! So much for YOUR expert opinions.

Did I ever say I had an expert opinion? No. All I did was use my experience with Brits from various ideological stances. But you two won't accept that.
Secondly, I found that when you belittled opinions of those "8,000 miles" away, you come off as pretentious. (Actually Ravi is just over 3,000 miles awy from the UK.) In the age of our world's communication technology, people anywhere can get a pretty good handle of another nation's pulse. I found that with the Brits and I find that with my relatives spread out along the Pacific Rim countries regarding the US & UK.
Lastly, why would I know Tiger is a Brit? If I didn't include "kiwi" as part of my screen name, one would never have a clue that I'm originally from New Zealand, would they?

There's an old saying...look before you leap. I guess it applies in your case.

 

[tigerbob]

Maybe you should interact with more Brits?
Just like here in the US, there are varying degrees of conservatives and liberals. Colin reminded me of the more far right conservatives that I interacted with. So I stated that!
So shoot me.

Oh boy! Are you a comedian or just plain thick! Tiger is a Brit! So much for YOUR expert opinions.

Did I ever say I had an expert opinion? No. All I did was use my experience with Brits from various ideological stances. But you two won't accept that.
Secondly, I found that when you belittled opinions of those "8,000 miles" away, you come off as pretentious. (Actually Ravi is just over 3,000 miles awy from the UK.) In the age of our world's communication technology, people anywhere can get a pretty good handle of another nation's pulse. I found that with the Brits and I find that with my relatives spread out along the Pacific Rim countries regarding the US & UK.
Lastly, why would I know Tiger is a Brit? If I didn't include "kiwi" as part of my screen name, one would never have a clue that I'm originally from New Zealand, would they?

I don't live in England either, but I read the British media on a daily basis and interact with British friends / relatives on facebook and by email or phone many, many times a week.

Despite this, I accept that Colin's experiences of day to day life in Britain will be vastly better informed / more well-rounded than mine.

How he chooses to process that information and express his views is another matter entirely. But to dismiss his views as "partizan hackery" and "far right", and offer yours as better informed and balanced because of your interaction with thousands of Brits online is just.....y'know.

 

[Swagger]

I love it! The French are better than the Brits! Good thing we had that revolution.

Both former and latter are debatable. But hey, at least you've had the benefit of our enduring legacy, non?

No, we have dentists.

You also had the templates of an enduring civilization bestowed upon you. Indeed, you even speak our language, levy tax on our model, abide by laws outlined and implemented by your former colonial overlords, etc. I won't bore you with the whole list, but you can be sure that it's a long one. I can only hope that you appreciate our benevolence.

 

[Ravi]

Both former and latter are debatable. But hey, at least you've had the benefit of our enduring legacy, non?

No, we have dentists.

You also had the templates of an enduring civilization bestowed upon you. Indeed, you even speak our language, levy tax on our model, abide by laws outlined and implemented by your former colonial overlords, etc. I won't bore you with the whole list, but you can be sure that it's a long one. I can only hope that you appreciate our benevolence.

What benevolence? We whipped your ass.

 

[Swagger]

No, we have dentists.

You also had the templates of an enduring civilization bestowed upon you. Indeed, you even speak our language, levy tax on our model, abide by laws outlined and implemented by your former colonial overlords, etc. I won't bore you with the whole list, but you can be sure that it's a long one. I can only hope that you appreciate our benevolence.

What benevolence? We whipped your ass.

And you've never won a real war without our involvement since.

 

[Ravi]

You also had the templates of an enduring civilization bestowed upon you. Indeed, you even speak our language, levy tax on our model, abide by laws outlined and implemented by your former colonial overlords, etc. I won't bore you with the whole list, but you can be sure that it's a long one. I can only hope that you appreciate our benevolence.

What benevolence? We whipped your ass.

And you've never won a real war without our involvement since.

Nor have you without ours. Though I would go as far to say that we would have won WW2 without you.

 

[tigerbob]

What benevolence? We whipped your ass.

And you've never won a real war without our involvement since.

Nor have you without ours. Though I would go as far to say that we would have won WW2 without you.

On the basis that the US Navy said that the Falkland Islands couldn't be retaken, it would have been interesting to see the invasion of Normandy launched from New York.

 

[Swagger]

What benevolence? We whipped your ass.

And you've never won a real war without our involvement since.

Nor have you without ours. Though I would go as far to say that we would have won WW2 without you.

100 Years' War. The Seven Years' War. Napolionic Wars. The Crimea. First and Second Opium Wars. First and Second Boer Wars, etc etc. Not to mention all the conflicts necessary when taking all the territory we conquered (a quarter of the world's surface, in case didn't know).

The list of determined and established foes that we've defeated on land and at sea without American involvement is long and distinguished. The same can't be said for America. Oh, and you only joined WW2 after the Japanese dragged you from under the bed. We were spilling Nazi blood long before then.