Listening to Paul Ryan

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by midcan5, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    Paul Ryan said yesterday, that our rights come from Gawd and nature. So then my question is, if rights come from Gawd and nature, what might they be? Can someone describe a right that comes from nature? Can someone define a right that comes from Gawd? I am interested in a definition of these rights, their foundational source (no tautologies), explanatory reasons, and consequential implications.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  2. Intense
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    Intense Senior Member

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    The Second Treatise of Civil Government
    1690

    John Locke
    1632-1704

    Introduction
    CHAP. I.
    CHAP. II. Of the State of Nature.
    CHAP. III. Of the State of War.
    CHAP. IV. Of Slavery.
    CHAP. V. Of Property.
    CHAP. VI. Of Paternal Power.
    CHAP. VII. Of Political or Civil Society.
    CHAP. VIII. Of the Beginning of Political Societies.
    CHAP. IX. Of the Ends of Political Society and Government.
    CHAP. X. Of the Forms of a Common-wealth.
    CHAP. XI. Of the Extent of the Legislative Power.
    CHAP. XII. Of the Legislative, Executive, and Federative Power of the Common-wealth.
    CHAP. XIII. Of the Subordination of the Powers of the Common-wealth.
    CHAP. XIV. Of Prerogative.
    CHAP. XV. Of Paternal, Political, and Despotical Power, considered together.
    CHAP. XVI. Of Conquest.
    CHAP. XVII. Of Usurpation.
    CHAP. XVIII. Of Tyranny.
    CHAP. XIX. Of the Dissolution of Government.



    John Locke: Second Treatise of Civil Government
     
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  3. The Rabbi
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    The Rabbi Diamond Member

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    All men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and among these are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
     
  4. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    it's an interesting concept in terms of political philosophy.

    in reality, rights only exist which the government is willing to enforce. i'm sure that 2nd generation japanese-americans would have been pleased to attest to that in 1940....

    and women, pre-vote, would have seconded...

    which would have been fully agreed with by blacks during slavery, and post slavery through the jim crow era.

    and that doesn't even begin to touch on things like the right to marry a person of the color you choose (not enforced until loving v virginia during the 70's) and a myriad of other issues
     
  5. The Rabbi
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    The Rabbi Diamond Member

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    Interned Japanese Americans received compensation. Women were not denied any rights. People were free to move to states that recognized interracial marriage.
    Pointing out examples like this really isn't much of an argument.
     
  6. Valerie
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    Valerie Gold Member

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    Text of Paul Ryan


    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMQw6fsF_ts]Paul Ryan's speech at Norfolk, Virginia - YouTube[/ame]
     
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  7. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    again, nice concept... but the declaration of independence doesn't carry force of law...

    which brings us back to...the rights only exist which government will enforce.
     
  8. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    they received compensation...but what do you think their freedom was worth?

    if all jews were suddenly interned, and twenty years from now, our kids got money, would that make up for stealing our freedom?

    freedom to move to other states is not what we're talking about. we're talking about existence of rights.

    and why when the constitution guarantees equality of treatment, should anyone HAVE to move? people don't just get up and leave family, homes, careers, jobs... and why should they?

    i think that proves my point about rights only existing which government enforces.
     
  9. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    again, i love political philosophy. but i suspect hobbs would have had different ideas about the social contract.
     
  10. Valerie
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    Valerie Gold Member

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    The opening of the United States Declaration of Independence, written by Thomas Jefferson in 1776, states as follows:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;[7]

    In 1776 the Second Continental Congress asked Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Robert Livingston, and Roger Sherman to write the Declaration of Independence. The five men voted to have Thomas Jefferson write the document. After Jefferson finished he gave the document to Franklin to proof. Franklin suggested minor changes, but one of them stands out far more than the others. Jefferson had written, "We hold these truths to be sacred and un-deniable..." Franklin changed it to, "We hold these truths to be self-evident."


    All men are created equal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     

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