Liberals for wealth redistribution

[Jon]

The "Right Track" for taxes is a flat rate tax with no exceptions. You still have the inequality of it being a percentage of income and investments, but then everyone pays their fair share.

The truely FAIR tax would be a flat rate for everyone regardless of what they make. Then everyone pays the same. Think of it. if you made the flat rate a thousand dollars, but everyone who has a job or gained wealth from investments paid it. How many people earn an income in the US or at least gain wealth from investments? 150m? 250m? That's suddenly an income tax of 1.5 to 2.5 TRILLION.

Of course there would be no more refunds, and withholding gets really simple 1000/52 weeks.... you get the point. Yes the poor get hit a little harder, but they need work, and now the rich have LOTS of money to invest. No more panicking around tax time, because like union dues, it's already been taken from your check. If someone is out of work and no income... no tax! Crazy!

Of course the income tax code is reduced to like 1 page and you put out thousands of temporary workers around tax season as well as full time personal accountants. But those are acceptable losses. They'll find new work elsewhere.

Even if you did a 10% flat tax on all income (including investments) and nothing else, the rich would be gonzo to pay it, and the poor would no longer be draining the public treasury by gaining more money back than they put in. April 15th would no longer be 'second christmas'. In the process we'd STILL be collecting more money than the current system which packs the taxes on the middle and upper classes like a fat cheerleader at the top of the pyramid.

Fairness in taxation... utter bullshit under progressive models. Redistribution is just evil.

The flat tax is not fair at all, actually. Because there are other taxes, like sales taxes, those with the capacity to spend (ie., the wealthy) still have to pay more in taxes. However, those without the capacity to spend still have to pay taxes on the goods they need to survive, which means they are still paying a larger portion of their income on taxes for goods.

There will never be a "fair" tax system. Someone is always going to get favored.

 

[Big Fitz]

You are right. there will never be a totally fair tax system...

There will only be a 'most fair' tax system.

The problem is that how 'fair' is measured right now is in equality of outcome, not equality under the law.

A rich man pays tens of thousands of times more than a poor person for his government services due him by law. The poor person is actually paid to use them when they get a rebate check larger than they paid in. Reparations are never fair, even if it is based on a sensation of charity.

I'm dealing strictly with income tax here. I know about all the other excise and sales taxes. Those are a different problem.

 

[Brubricker]

The truely FAIR tax would be a flat rate for everyone regardless of what they make.

Keep on fantasizing. The Fair Tax gets introduced in the House every year, year after year, and not even the REPUBLICANS will support it. It gets about 50 or 60 cosponsors every time and that's it. When less than a third of the GOP's House members will support it that means it's DOA. The Fair Tax is a fringe fad that has no future.

 

[Big Fitz]

The truely FAIR tax would be a flat rate for everyone regardless of what they make.

Keep on fantasizing. The Fair Tax gets introduced in the House every year, year after year, and not even the REPUBLICANS will support it. It gets about 50 or 60 cosponsors every time and that's it. When less than a third of the GOP's House members will support it that means it's DOA. The Fair Tax is a fringe fad that has no future.

Never said it would. Just pointing it out. Plus, the way congress is set up with a bunch of criminals on both sides of the aisle looking to fleece this country, they'd keep the income tax AND pile on a "fair" tax as well. That's why one has to be repealed before the other is implemented.

BUT the income tax code can be easily rewritten to do what I suggested without any extra new taxes. Could damn near do it on one sheet of paper.

 

[Old Rocks]

The "Right Track" for taxes is a flat rate tax with no exceptions. You still have the inequality of it being a percentage of income and investments, but then everyone pays their fair share.

The truely FAIR tax would be a flat rate for everyone regardless of what they make. Then everyone pays the same. Think of it. if you made the flat rate a thousand dollars, but everyone who has a job or gained wealth from investments paid it. How many people earn an income in the US or at least gain wealth from investments? 150m? 250m? That's suddenly an income tax of 1.5 to 2.5 TRILLION.

Of course there would be no more refunds, and withholding gets really simple 1000/52 weeks.... you get the point. Yes the poor get hit a little harder, but they need work, and now the rich have LOTS of money to invest. No more panicking around tax time, because like union dues, it's already been taken from your check. If someone is out of work and no income... no tax! Crazy!

Of course the income tax code is reduced to like 1 page and you put out thousands of temporary workers around tax season as well as full time personal accountants. But those are acceptable losses. They'll find new work elsewhere.

Even if you did a 10% flat tax on all income (including investments) and nothing else, the rich would be gonzo to pay it, and the poor would no longer be draining the public treasury by gaining more money back than they put in. April 15th would no longer be 'second christmas'. In the process we'd STILL be collecting more money than the current system which packs the taxes on the middle and upper classes like a fat cheerleader at the top of the pyramid.

Fairness in taxation... utter bullshit under progressive models. Redistribution is just evil.

Invest they would. In China, you dumb fuck.

 

[Old Rocks]

Let us consider the 1950s. We started building the Interstate system then. Our rate of economic growth was very healthy. What was the tax rate then on the wealthy? On the Middle Class? On the working Poor?

 

[Jon]

The poor person is actually paid to use them when they get a rebate check larger than they paid in.

You're gonna have to back that one up, because I have a hard time believing that it happens.

 

[Cuyo]

Someone will have to point out where this irresponsible spending isolated to this administration is.

Make a game out of it. Buy the poster, buy some darts, and I bet every time you throw a dart, you'll find some irresponsible spending.

Death and Taxes 2011. It's the government, in six square feet.

Oh absolutely. Any institution will have some irresponsible spending. My business which does about $400k a year (total receipts) has plenty of irresponsible spending in retrospect. The United States government, on the other hand, is the largest financial institution on earth (Unless you consider the EU a sovereign entity).

What I'm looking for is some specifics isolated to this administration. I've long had the stance that no matter who was elected... The deficit situation would be very similar.

 

[Big Fitz]

The poor person is actually paid to use them when they get a rebate check larger than they paid in.

You're gonna have to back that one up, because I have a hard time believing that it happens.

Had it happen to myself once when I was out of work 10 months. I paid my income tax, took the EIC and suddenly, instead of getting a paltry couple hundred back I got like 3 grand! Took it to someone else to check my math and make sure I didn't get nailed to the wall, and was told... yep... you did it right. Nice to get 10 times back what you paid in, isn't it?

Happens way too frequent.

 

[Jon]

The poor person is actually paid to use them when they get a rebate check larger than they paid in.

You're gonna have to back that one up, because I have a hard time believing that it happens.

Had it happen to myself once when I was out of work 10 months. I paid my income tax, took the EIC and suddenly, instead of getting a paltry couple hundred back I got like 3 grand! Took it to someone else to check my math and make sure I didn't get nailed to the wall, and was told... yep... you did it right. Nice to get 10 times back what you paid in, isn't it?

Happens way too frequent.

Whomever you took it to was a shitty accountant. If it wasn't withheld from your paychecks, you don't get it back.

While you were out of work, did you receive unemployment? There are withholdings from unemployment, you know?

 

[Jon]

I've long had the stance that no matter who was elected... The deficit situation would be very similar.

Depends on what you are referring to. Out of the two primary candidates (McCain vs. Obama)? You're probably right. But if you had real fiscal conservatives (Romney, Hillary), it'd be a different story.

 

[Cuyo]

I've long had the stance that no matter who was elected... The deficit situation would be very similar.

Depends on what you are referring to. Out of the two primary candidates (McCain vs. Obama)? You're probably right. But if you had real fiscal conservatives (Romney, Hillary), it'd be a different story.

Jon, there's nothing to cut! That's what you're not grasping.

The projected deficit this year is $1.17T.

Non military discressionary spending is about $500B.

So yes, we could dismantle a number of programs and get to a slightly smaller deficit, but what happens when we dismantle government programs? Higher unemployment. There's about 5 people applying for every available job (In my personal experience... Much, much higher... 50+ responses to entry-level ads I've taken out).

What do you think the deficit this year would be with Hillary? Romney? I mean I'll hear this out, but let's be realistic here... This administration got dealt a pretty shitty hand.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Check out this thread and note how many Liberal Democrats SUPPORT the concept of the US Government STEALING private citizens wealth. Yet they insist they are not socialist.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/124697-wealth-inequality-how-it-affects-the-economy.html

Freedom? No not if democrats had their way.

Corporations need to pay people a proper wage, and need to stop sending jobs overseas. If they don't I say tax them. This system isn't working, and if you think it is, well you are just a sheep.

MORON alert. They are leaving because we tax them too much. They are leaving because it is CHEAPER to operate elsewhere.

I do love the claim that rich people and Corporations don't pay. We have had this discussion before with charts and figures to prove something like 10 percent of the people in this country pay 97 percent of the taxes.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Good point. I guess what I meant to say was, "We were on the right track under Clinton."

Indeed. We did have a budget surplus under Clinton too.

Thanks to a Republican Congress.

 

[Cuyo]

Check out this thread and note how many Liberal Democrats SUPPORT the concept of the US Government STEALING private citizens wealth. Yet they insist they are not socialist.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/124697-wealth-inequality-how-it-affects-the-economy.html

Freedom? No not if democrats had their way.

Corporations need to pay people a proper wage, and need to stop sending jobs overseas. If they don't I say tax them. This system isn't working, and if you think it is, well you are just a sheep.

MORON alert. They are leaving because we tax them too much. They are leaving because it is CHEAPER to operate elsewhere.

I do love the claim that rich people and Corporations don't pay. We have had this discussion before with charts and figures to prove something like 10 percent of the people in this country pay 97 percent of the taxes.

Indeed. Oh, the irony. Thanks for stoppin' by.

 

[Meister]

Corporations need to pay people a proper wage, and need to stop sending jobs overseas. If they don't I say tax them. This system isn't working, and if you think it is, well you are just a sheep.

MORON alert. They are leaving because we tax them too much. They are leaving because it is CHEAPER to operate elsewhere.

I do love the claim that rich people and Corporations don't pay. We have had this discussion before with charts and figures to prove something like 10 percent of the people in this country pay 97 percent of the taxes.

Indeed. Oh, the irony. Thanks for stoppin' by.

WOW! that has to be the best retort ever.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Warren Buffet himself came out and said that he doesn't share the same tax burden as his employees for example. No flat rate would change that fact.

 

[Gadawg73]

WTF you talkin 'bout Willis?
Everyone here is for wealth distribution. Pigs at the tit are out numbering the tits.
Everyone here claims to be a conservative but when social security, Medicare and other government benefit tit programs are out there they are first to "qualify" to get their tit for life all the while claiming "I M conservative. I earned mine."

 

[Cuyo]

MORON alert. They are leaving because we tax them too much. They are leaving because it is CHEAPER to operate elsewhere.

I do love the claim that rich people and Corporations don't pay. We have had this discussion before with charts and figures to prove something like 10 percent of the people in this country pay 97 percent of the taxes.

Indeed. Oh, the irony. Thanks for stoppin' by.

WOW! that has to be the best retort ever.

O.....kay.......

So will you go on record agreeing with RetartedGynacologist that the top 10% pay 97% of the taxes?

 

[Meister]

WTF you talkin 'bout Willis?
Everyone here is for wealth distribution. Pigs at the tit are out numbering the tits.
Everyone here claims to be a conservative but when social security, Medicare and other government benefit tit programs are out there they are first to "qualify" to get their tit for life all the while claiming "I M conservative. I earned mine."

You have no clue about what a conservative thinks....don't try and fake that you know.