Lets talk about income inequality

Quantum Windbag

Gold Member
May 9, 2010
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I have been told it causes crime, gun violence, and is unfair. I say that it isn't a problem and that life ain't fair.

Anyone want to tell me why I am wrong?
 
Why shouldn't our incomes be unequal? I don't do the same work as others. Some work more than me. Some work less. Some do work more valuable than mine. Some do work that is less valuable than mine. Should the person who scrubs grime off the wall be paid the same as a neuro surgeon?

Why exactly?

Not only that, but we all have different needs. I need room for a smaller place than say someone with a family of 19 kids. I could get by with much less than they could. I need more than someone who is just out of high school with no children.

Income should not be identical. Nor should the government forcibly distribute someone elses income to me nor mine to them. There is nothing charitable about robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Instead, let us of our own volition use the resources we have been blessed with to bless others in need. Let us be liberal and prayerful in our personal charity and handle public coffers with strict integrity.

That is how things should be. Let's do good instead of expecting the government to do to good while we play the miser.
 
I have been told it causes crime, gun violence, and is unfair. I say that it isn't a problem and that life ain't fair.

Anyone want to tell me why I am wrong?



There is one aspect of income equality that is unfair: Big Government Cronyism.

When the incomes go up for cronies due to rent-seeking of taxpayer money, that is patently unfair. We have a real life example of this in the DC area. Incomes in the areas surrounding DC have gone up dramatically while they have fallen throughout the rest of the country over the past 5 years.
 
I have been told it causes crime, gun violence, and is unfair. I say that it isn't a problem and that life ain't fair.

Anyone want to tell me why I am wrong?

Its not a problem because there are always rich and poor. But when the gap is too large those societies crumble. By crumble I don't mean like a delicious cookie either
 
I have been told it causes crime, gun violence, and is unfair. I say that it isn't a problem and that life ain't fair.

Anyone want to tell me why I am wrong?

Its not a problem because there are always rich and poor. But when the gap is too large those societies crumble. By crumble I don't mean like a delicious cookie either

The wealth gap is the direct result of central planning by the federal reserve and federal government. You know, the very entities you cherish so much and continue to petition them for more of what they offer....yeah, that's right. You ask for it because of ignorance.
 
Actually heres an article about it...

Dangers of Income Inequality
Here is a good article on income inequality from Joseph Stiglitz. It's only coincidence that I am posting so much from Stiglitz lately, I stumbled across this today looking at other blogs.

I think the dangers he presents are real and the arguments he makes valid. Some highlights:

It’s no use pretending that what has obviously happened has not in fact happened. The upper 1 percent of Americans are now taking in nearly a quarter of the nation’s income every year. In terms of wealth rather than income, the top 1 percent control 40 percent. Their lot in life has improved considerably. Twenty-five years ago, the corresponding figures were 12 percent and 33 percent.

While the top 1 percent have seen their incomes rise 18 percent over the past decade, those in the middle have actually seen their incomes fall. For men with only high-school degrees, the decline has been precipitous—12 percent in the last quarter-century alone. All the growth in recent decades—and more—has gone to those at the top. In terms of income equality, America lags behind any country in the old, ossified Europe that President George W. Bush used to deride.

Economists long ago tried to justify the vast inequalities that seemed so troubling in the mid-19th century—inequalities that are but a pale shadow of what we are seeing in America today. The justification they came up with was called “marginal-productivity theory.” In a nutshell, this theory associated higher incomes with higher productivity and a greater contribution to society. It is a theory that has always been cherished by the rich. Evidence for its validity, however, remains thin.

Those who have contributed great positive innovations to our society, from the pioneers of genetic understanding to the pioneers of the Information Age, have received a pittance compared with those responsible for the financial innovations that brought our global economy to the brink of ruin.

An economy in which most citizens are doing worse year after year—an economy like America’s—is not likely to do well over the long haul. There are several reasons for this.

First, growing inequality is the flip side of something else: shrinking opportunity.

Second, many of the distortions that lead to inequality—such as those associated with monopoly power and preferential tax treatment for special interests—undermine the efficiency of the economy.

Third, and perhaps most important, a modern economy requires “collective action”—it needs government to invest in infrastructure, education, and technology.


The top 1 percent may complain about the kind of government we have in America, but in truth they like it just fine: too gridlocked to re-distribute, too divided to do anything but lower taxes.

But one big part of the reason we have so much inequality is that the top 1 percent want it that way. The most obvious example involves tax policy. Lowering tax rates on capital gains, which is how the rich receive a large portion of their income, has given the wealthiest Americans close to a free ride.

Much of today’s inequality is due to manipulation of the financial system, enabled by changes in the rules that have been bought and paid for by the financial industry itself—one of its best investments ever.

Wealth begets power, which begets more wealth.

The personal and the political are today in perfect alignment. Virtually all U.S. senators, and most of the representatives in the House, are members of the top 1 percent when they arrive, are kept in office by money from the top 1 percent, and know that if they serve the top 1 percent well they will be rewarded by the top 1 percent when they leave office.

With youth unemployment in America at around 20 percent (and in some locations, and among some socio-demographic groups, at twice that); with one out of six Americans desiring a full-time job not able to get one; with one out of seven Americans on food stamps (and about the same number suffering from “food insecurity”)—given all this, there is ample evidence that something has blocked the vaunted “trickling down” from the top 1 percent to everyone else. All of this is having the predictable effect of creating alienation.

Alexis de Tocqueville once described what he saw as a chief part of the peculiar genius of American society—something he called “self-interest properly understood.” The last two words were the key. Everyone possesses self-interest in a narrow sense: I want what’s good for me right now! Self-interest “properly understood” is different. It means appreciating that paying attention to everyone else’s self-interest—in other words, the common welfare—is in fact a precondition for one’s own ultimate well-being. Tocqueville was not suggesting that there was anything noble or idealistic about this outlook—in fact, he was suggesting the opposite. It was a mark of American pragmatism. Those canny Americans understood a basic fact: looking out for the other guy isn’t just good for the soul—it’s good for business.

The top 1 percent have the best houses, the best educations, the best doctors, and the best lifestyles, but there is one thing that money doesn’t seem to have bought: an understanding that their fate is bound up with how the other 99 percent live. Throughout history, this is something that the top 1 percent eventually do learn. Too late.


The economy and the society as a whole become more and more unstable as income inequality gets worse and worse. I can't stress enough how important it is that this issue be addressed, yet I get the feeling that nothing will be done and that it may already be too late.

The government's role in society is to pursue and provide for the common good of the society for which it serves. Yet, lately, the government has served the pockets of the rich very well, while the common good is suffering.

Christian Economics: Dangers of Income Inequality
 
The personal and the political are today in perfect alignment. Virtually all U.S. senators, and most of the representatives in the House, are members of the top 1 percent when they arrive, are kept in office by money from the top 1 percent, and know that if they serve the top 1 percent well they will be rewarded by the top 1 percent when they leave office.

I noticed you didn't bold this part. Belief bias, or an oversight. :rolleyes:
 
People who are spouting stuff about incomes in different professions have it totally wrong. Rich people don't make money off professions, if they do it's tiny compared to investments.

Investments are where nearly all income gains in this country can be seen in the last 5 or so years. So the "if you work harder you deserve more" mantra doesn't exactly apply here. Investing capital for start up businesses, buying/selling/leasing real estate, investing in financial products, trading stocks....these are the way income inequality is on the rise. The more money you have access to (via savings, assets, or credit) the more money you can make.

The rise in incomes via regular professions (plumber, technician, fast food worker, whatever) have all mostly been flat or declining.
 
I have been told it causes crime, gun violence, and is unfair. I say that it isn't a problem and that life ain't fair.

Anyone want to tell me why I am wrong?

you are not wrong. you are perfectly right. INCOME inequality does not cause that.

WEALTH inequality does.

However, there is not that much WEALTH inequality in the US.

it has not changed much since 1922:


Year Bottom 99% Top 1%

1922 63.3% 36.7%

1929 55.8% 44.2%

1933 66.7% 33.3%

1939 63.6% 36.4%

1945 70.2% 29.8%

1949 72.9% 27.1%

1953 68.8% 31.2%

1962 68.2% 31.8%

1965 65.6% 34.4%

1969 68.9% 31.1%

1972 70.9% 29.1%

1976 80.1% 19.9%

1979 79.5% 20.5%

1981 75.2% 24.8%

1983 69.1% 30.9%

1986 68.1% 31.9%

1989 64.3% 35.7%

1992 62.8% 37.2%

1995 61.5% 38.5%

1998 61.9% 38.1%

2001 66.6% 33.4%

2004 65.7% 34.3%

2007 65.4% 34.6%

2010 64.6% 35.4%

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power
 
I have been told it causes crime, gun violence, and is unfair. I say that it isn't a problem and that life ain't fair.

Anyone want to tell me why I am wrong?

Its not a problem because there are always rich and poor. But when the gap is too large those societies crumble. By crumble I don't mean like a delicious cookie either

The wealth gap is the direct result of central planning by the federal reserve and federal government. You know, the very entities you cherish so much and continue to petition them for more of what they offer....yeah, that's right. You ask for it because of ignorance.

the WEALTH gap did not change for the last 40 years...
 
The personal and the political are today in perfect alignment. Virtually all U.S. senators, and most of the representatives in the House, are members of the top 1 percent when they arrive, are kept in office by money from the top 1 percent, and know that if they serve the top 1 percent well they will be rewarded by the top 1 percent when they leave office.

I noticed you didn't bold this part. Belief bias, or an oversight. :rolleyes:

Now everybody will see this and see how you're ok with this:

So you are for or against unlimited campaign contributions?

I'm against it for the reasons you quoted above. How about you?
 
I have been told it causes crime, gun violence, and is unfair. I say that it isn't a problem and that life ain't fair.

Anyone want to tell me why I am wrong?

Its not a problem because there are always rich and poor. But when the gap is too large those societies crumble. By crumble I don't mean like a delicious cookie either

the gap is the same for the last 40 years. The narrowest it was at Nixon's times - and exactly at that time we have had spending and revenue about the same.
 
The personal and the political are today in perfect alignment. Virtually all U.S. senators, and most of the representatives in the House, are members of the top 1 percent when they arrive, are kept in office by money from the top 1 percent, and know that if they serve the top 1 percent well they will be rewarded by the top 1 percent when they leave office.

I noticed you didn't bold this part. Belief bias, or an oversight. :rolleyes:

Now everybody will see this and see how you're ok with this:

So you are for or against unlimited campaign contributions?

I'm against it for the reasons you quoted above. How about you?

A symptom of the disease. I'm against inflationary monetary policy, central planning and federal government encroachment. You like these things. If you didn't you wouldn't be addressing a symptom of the disease as the disease itself.
 
it is not about inflation - it is about the percentage of wealth held by the top 1% and the other 99% - and it is the same proportion for the last 40 years.

Inflation makes impact on absolute numbers, not on the rate or a share if the part in the whole.
 
I noticed you didn't bold this part. Belief bias, or an oversight. :rolleyes:

Now everybody will see this and see how you're ok with this:

So you are for or against unlimited campaign contributions?

I'm against it for the reasons you quoted above. How about you?

A symptom of the disease. I'm against inflationary monetary policy, central planning and federal government encroachment. You like these things. If you didn't you wouldn't be addressing a symptom of the disease as the disease itself.

Are you for it or not?
 
Federal spending grew exponentially for the last 4 decades and it is a heavy load on the American taxpayer, whose median income per household vs federal spending is reflected here:

growth-federal-spending-606.jpg



THAT is the main reason - skyrocketing spending - which strangles the growth of household income, not WEALTH distribution, which has not changed at all for the last 40 years.
 
A symptom of the disease. I'm against inflationary monetary policy, central planning and federal government encroachment. You like these things. If you didn't you wouldn't be addressing a symptom of the disease as the disease itself.

absolutely agree. that policy and ballooning government spending is strangling the growth of household income, not wealth distribution.
 
Now everybody will see this and see how you're ok with this:

So you are for or against unlimited campaign contributions?

I'm against it for the reasons you quoted above. How about you?

A symptom of the disease. I'm against inflationary monetary policy, central planning and federal government encroachment. You like these things. If you didn't you wouldn't be addressing a symptom of the disease as the disease itself.

Are you for it or not?

it doesn't matter. That's not the problem. I dont care either way. The problem is that legislators have the ability to run favors for sectors of the economy in the first place. Government watching itself for a check on contributions is like when they passed that law regarding insider trading, then turned around and quietly repealed it.

You're addressing this symptom as though it would cure the disease. it wont.
 

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