Let's see if I have this right.

[amrchaos]

The Democrats have the White House,and both houses of Congress. They had the sixty votes
necessary to pass the bill. Now I see Democrat senator after senator on MSNBC complaining about the bill.

Harry Reid on the floor of the Senate crying that while he's speaking Americans are dying
because they don't have health care.

Isn't it true that the full effect of this bill doesn't take effect until 4 years from now.

This has to be a real bad movie that we are all watching. Please people we need to get these Democrats out of power as quickly as possible.

Well--you could either have the Dim wads crying and being hypocritical, or we can re-empower the Neo-conservative nutjobs and start up WWIII by attacking Iran/Russia.

I think I rather have these damn hypocrits whining on the floor, how about you?

 

[Foxfyre]

If Obama and the Democrats were proud of what they were doing and knew it was the right thing, they would have done it in the full light of day, openly, and made sure all Americans fully understood the content of the legislation and give them opportunity to appreciate it. And they would have included themselves in the provisions of it.

They didn't do any of that.

 

[Claudette]

Who created the messes they are trying to clean up?

I dont think the republics did anything but make the messes

Jeeze. Last I heard Truth. The Dems had control of Congress for what, 50 years. You honestly don't think they are responsible for any of THIS MESS?you heard wrong

LBJ unlocked the lockbox on SS and look at the mess thats in. Last I heard Medicare and Welfare were put in place by Democratics Look at the mess those programs are in.
how many would have died without these programs
The Reps played their part as well by spending like drunken sailors when they had control of Congress. They aren't innocent but they sure didn't do anything by themselves.they pushed for deregulation and refusing to police the industry, hell bush even fought ALL 50 states governors when they tried to put in place state laws to regulate the mortgage industry state by state. Yes they got some help from assholes like Clinton who fucked us all by signing Phil Grams GLB act but its republican platform to deregulate and NOT dem platform The Dems had control for the last 2 years and they did nothing but spend as well. They are still spending with money we ain't got.
where was all your outrage when reagan was ballooning the deficit, or Bush one or Bush 2
We'll just see where this clusterfuck of a healthcare bill leads us. My guess it will be right to the poor house. The only folks who won't be affected are those who are already living on the largesse of the taxpayers of America. Their little EBT cards will always have money in em.

All the western countries have single payer healthcare and they will be competeing with our corps who have to pay half of their employees health care premiums. How the fuck do you think they will fare against other western corps who are free of this cost? Universal single payer healthcare is going to happen in this country. Its a matter of how long and how we end up there. Republicans defend the exsisting insurance assholes hwo have seen under Bush unbelieveable profit. How much would healthcare cost without the profit these leaches gleen out of the sytem? You people are really fucking short sited.

Nice rant there Truth. Seems to me that the insurance companies also had a seat at Obamas table. Wonder how that went????

When I got my first job my benefits cost me about $4.50 a week. That right. A whopping $4.50 per week.

Medicare started in 1965. As soon as the Govt got Medicare going thats when the price of benefits started going up and have never stopped. Why?? Because the Govt only pays part of anything so those with iinsurance coverage get charged more to make up the difference. So I guess you could say its all the Govt's fault. If Medicare had never been instituted I wonder what healthcare costs would be today????

Do I think the Insurance companies are innocent, hell no. They have to make a profit

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and I am surprised that anyone would want Govt in charge of their healtcare or 1/6th of the economy either. This will turn into a giant costly mess.

 

[mudwhistle]

Jeeze. Last I heard Truth. The Dems had control of Congress for what, 50 years. You honestly don't think they are responsible for any of THIS MESS?you heard wrong

LBJ unlocked the lockbox on SS and look at the mess thats in. Last I heard Medicare and Welfare were put in place by Democratics Look at the mess those programs are in.
how many would have died without these programs
The Reps played their part as well by spending like drunken sailors when they had control of Congress. They aren't innocent but they sure didn't do anything by themselves.they pushed for deregulation and refusing to police the industry, hell bush even fought ALL 50 states governors when they tried to put in place state laws to regulate the mortgage industry state by state. Yes they got some help from assholes like Clinton who fucked us all by signing Phil Grams GLB act but its republican platform to deregulate and NOT dem platform The Dems had control for the last 2 years and they did nothing but spend as well. They are still spending with money we ain't got.
where was all your outrage when reagan was ballooning the deficit, or Bush one or Bush 2
We'll just see where this clusterfuck of a healthcare bill leads us. My guess it will be right to the poor house. The only folks who won't be affected are those who are already living on the largesse of the taxpayers of America. Their little EBT cards will always have money in em.

All the western countries have single payer healthcare and they will be competeing with our corps who have to pay half of their employees health care premiums. How the fuck do you think they will fare against other western corps who are free of this cost? Universal single payer healthcare is going to happen in this country. Its a matter of how long and how we end up there. Republicans defend the exsisting insurance assholes hwo have seen under Bush unbelieveable profit. How much would healthcare cost without the profit these leaches gleen out of the sytem? You people are really fucking short sited.

Nice rant there Truth. Seems to me that the insurance companies also had a seat at Obamas table. Wonder how that went????

When I got my first job my benefits cost me about $4.50 a week. That right. A whopping $4.50 per week.

Medicare started in 1965. As soon as the Govt got Medicare going thats when the price of benefits started going up and have never stopped. Why?? Because the Govt only pays part of anything so those with iinsurance coverage get charged more to make up the difference. So I guess you could say its all the Govt's fault. If Medicare had never been instituted I wonder what healthcare costs would be today????

Do I think the Insurance companies are innocent, hell no. They have to make a profit

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and I am surprised that anyone would want Govt in charge of their healtcare or 1/6th of the economy either. This will turn into a giant costly mess.

Medicare currently stiffs doctors. They only pay a portion of the charges.

This has caused costs to rise because doctors have to charge more then normal to make up for all of the loss from unpaid bills.

I have private and government health insurance. The private pays 80% and the government pays zilch. Any wonder why health care costs have been going up?

 

[Claudette]

The Democrats have the White House,and both houses of Congress. They had the sixty votes
necessary to pass the bill. Now I see Democrat senator after senator on MSNBC complaining about the bill.

Harry Reid on the floor of the Senate crying that while he's speaking Americans are dying
because they don't have health care.

Isn't it true that the full effect of this bill doesn't take effect until 4 years from now.

This has to be a real bad movie that we are all watching. Please people we need to get these Democrats out of power as quickly as possible.

yep, they gotta have four years to tax the crap outta us while they let 45 thousand Americans die,,each year,, 180 thousands Americans have to pay with their lives so the demoncwats can run their ponzi scheme.{it's a ponzi scheme that would put Murdoch to shame." I forgot who said that..

Gotta agree. Wonder how long it will take before they figure out they can't provide better or cheaper????

 

[Foxfyre]

Jeeze. Last I heard Truth. The Dems had control of Congress for what, 50 years. You honestly don't think they are responsible for any of THIS MESS?you heard wrong

LBJ unlocked the lockbox on SS and look at the mess thats in. Last I heard Medicare and Welfare were put in place by Democratics Look at the mess those programs are in.
how many would have died without these programs
The Reps played their part as well by spending like drunken sailors when they had control of Congress. They aren't innocent but they sure didn't do anything by themselves.they pushed for deregulation and refusing to police the industry, hell bush even fought ALL 50 states governors when they tried to put in place state laws to regulate the mortgage industry state by state. Yes they got some help from assholes like Clinton who fucked us all by signing Phil Grams GLB act but its republican platform to deregulate and NOT dem platform The Dems had control for the last 2 years and they did nothing but spend as well. They are still spending with money we ain't got.
where was all your outrage when reagan was ballooning the deficit, or Bush one or Bush 2
We'll just see where this clusterfuck of a healthcare bill leads us. My guess it will be right to the poor house. The only folks who won't be affected are those who are already living on the largesse of the taxpayers of America. Their little EBT cards will always have money in em.

All the western countries have single payer healthcare and they will be competeing with our corps who have to pay half of their employees health care premiums. How the fuck do you think they will fare against other western corps who are free of this cost? Universal single payer healthcare is going to happen in this country. Its a matter of how long and how we end up there. Republicans defend the exsisting insurance assholes hwo have seen under Bush unbelieveable profit. How much would healthcare cost without the profit these leaches gleen out of the sytem? You people are really fucking short sited.

Nice rant there Truth. Seems to me that the insurance companies also had a seat at Obamas table. Wonder how that went????

When I got my first job my benefits cost me about $4.50 a week. That right. A whopping $4.50 per week.

Medicare started in 1965. As soon as the Govt got Medicare going thats when the price of benefits started going up and have never stopped. Why?? Because the Govt only pays part of anything so those with iinsurance coverage get charged more to make up the difference. So I guess you could say its all the Govt's fault. If Medicare had never been instituted I wonder what healthcare costs would be today????

Do I think the Insurance companies are innocent, hell no. They have to make a profit

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and I am surprised that anyone would want Govt in charge of their healtcare or 1/6th of the economy either. This will turn into a giant costly mess.

Yes, but I'm not going to blame the insurance companies. I will blame the government who put a system in place that eliminated most of the competition between insurance companies and not only encouraged, but essentially legislated them into the practices that make healthcare more costly for all of us. Insurance for everything else--you know all that stuff the government hasn't interfered with or regulates appropriately--remains affordable.

I was working in a hospital when Medicare when into effect--I saw the costs, I saw the bills, and I saw the trends. From day one, Medicare corrupted the system and redesigned the playing field. Until then, healthcare was affordable for just about everybody and private donates and charity was able to pick up a lot of the costs for the few who couldn't afford it. Once Medicare went into effect, we saw the costs begin to increase sharply, and when Medicaid was added, the private citizen and private providers lost all control.

I fully believe, just as everything else left to the free market, had the government stayed out of healthcare, we would still have an affordable and manageable system. And I have comlete confidence that any new government interference/involvement will make it far worse.

 

[uscitizen]

If Obama and the Democrats were proud of what they were doing and knew it was the right thing, they would have done it in the full light of day, openly, and made sure all Americans fully understood the content of the legislation and give them opportunity to appreciate it. And they would have included themselves in the provisions of it.

They didn't do any of that.

Just like the bush energy policy?

 

[Claudette]

All the western countries have single payer healthcare and they will be competeing with our corps who have to pay half of their employees health care premiums. How the fuck do you think they will fare against other western corps who are free of this cost? Universal single payer healthcare is going to happen in this country. Its a matter of how long and how we end up there. Republicans defend the exsisting insurance assholes hwo have seen under Bush unbelieveable profit. How much would healthcare cost without the profit these leaches gleen out of the sytem? You people are really fucking short sited.

Nice rant there Truth. Seems to me that the insurance companies also had a seat at Obamas table. Wonder how that went????

When I got my first job my benefits cost me about $4.50 a week. That right. A whopping $4.50 per week.

Medicare started in 1965. As soon as the Govt got Medicare going thats when the price of benefits started going up and have never stopped. Why?? Because the Govt only pays part of anything so those with iinsurance coverage get charged more to make up the difference. So I guess you could say its all the Govt's fault. If Medicare had never been instituted I wonder what healthcare costs would be today????

Do I think the Insurance companies are innocent, hell no. They have to make a profit

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and I am surprised that anyone would want Govt in charge of their healtcare or 1/6th of the economy either. This will turn into a giant costly mess.

Medicare currently stiffs doctors. They only pay a portion of the charges.

This has caused costs to rise because doctors have to charge more then normal to make up for all of the loss from unpaid bills.

I have private and government health insurance. The private pays 80% and the government pays zilch. Any wonder why health care costs have been going up?

YOur right. Thats why a lot of doctors are not covering anyone using Medicare and Medicaid. I don't blame them.

The Govt is the problem, not the solution.

 

[uscitizen]

All the western countries have single payer healthcare and they will be competeing with our corps who have to pay half of their employees health care premiums. How the fuck do you think they will fare against other western corps who are free of this cost? Universal single payer healthcare is going to happen in this country. Its a matter of how long and how we end up there. Republicans defend the exsisting insurance assholes hwo have seen under Bush unbelieveable profit. How much would healthcare cost without the profit these leaches gleen out of the sytem? You people are really fucking short sited.

Nice rant there Truth. Seems to me that the insurance companies also had a seat at Obamas table. Wonder how that went????

When I got my first job my benefits cost me about $4.50 a week. That right. A whopping $4.50 per week.

Medicare started in 1965. As soon as the Govt got Medicare going thats when the price of benefits started going up and have never stopped. Why?? Because the Govt only pays part of anything so those with iinsurance coverage get charged more to make up the difference. So I guess you could say its all the Govt's fault. If Medicare had never been instituted I wonder what healthcare costs would be today????

Do I think the Insurance companies are innocent, hell no. They have to make a profit

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and I am surprised that anyone would want Govt in charge of their healtcare or 1/6th of the economy either. This will turn into a giant costly mess.

Medicare currently stiffs doctors. They only pay a portion of the charges.

This has caused costs to rise because doctors have to charge more then normal to make up for all of the loss from unpaid bills.

I have private and government health insurance. The private pays 80% and the government pays zilch. Any wonder why health care costs have been going up?

So different prices are charged for exactly the same procedures performed in medical care?
Why do the insurance companies pay less for the same procedure than someone paying cash?

 

[Claudette]

All the western countries have single payer healthcare and they will be competeing with our corps who have to pay half of their employees health care premiums. How the fuck do you think they will fare against other western corps who are free of this cost? Universal single payer healthcare is going to happen in this country. Its a matter of how long and how we end up there. Republicans defend the exsisting insurance assholes hwo have seen under Bush unbelieveable profit. How much would healthcare cost without the profit these leaches gleen out of the sytem? You people are really fucking short sited.

Nice rant there Truth. Seems to me that the insurance companies also had a seat at Obamas table. Wonder how that went????

When I got my first job my benefits cost me about $4.50 a week. That right. A whopping $4.50 per week.

Medicare started in 1965. As soon as the Govt got Medicare going thats when the price of benefits started going up and have never stopped. Why?? Because the Govt only pays part of anything so those with iinsurance coverage get charged more to make up the difference. So I guess you could say its all the Govt's fault. If Medicare had never been instituted I wonder what healthcare costs would be today????

Do I think the Insurance companies are innocent, hell no. They have to make a profit

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and I am surprised that anyone would want Govt in charge of their healtcare or 1/6th of the economy either. This will turn into a giant costly mess.

Yes, but I'm not going to blame the insurance companies. I will blame the government who put a system in place that eliminated most of the competition between insurance companies and not only encouraged, but essentially legislated them into the practices that make healthcare more costly for all of us. Insurance for everything else--you know all that stuff the government hasn't interfered with or regulates appropriately--remains affordable.

I was working in a hospital when Medicare when into effect--I saw the costs, I saw the bills, and I saw the trends. From day one, Medicare corrupted the system and redesigned the playing field. Until then, healthcare was affordable for just about everybody and private donates and charity was able to pick up a lot of the costs for the few who couldn't afford it. Once Medicare went into effect, we saw the costs begin to increase sharply, and when Medicaid was added, the private citizen and private providers lost all control.

I fully believe, just as everything else left to the free market, had the government stayed out of healthcare, we would still have an affordable and manageable system. And I have comlete confidence that any new government interference/involvement will make it far worse.

Sound like your in my age bracke Foxy?? Boy. Remember when $5.00 filled your gas tank and you could afford things??

I agree totally. If Govt had stayed the hell out of healthcare we wouldn't have the problems we have today. The free market would still be working. AS I said, the Govt isn't the solution its the problem. Too bad everyone can't see that.

 

[uscitizen]

Nice rant there Truth. Seems to me that the insurance companies also had a seat at Obamas table. Wonder how that went????

When I got my first job my benefits cost me about $4.50 a week. That right. A whopping $4.50 per week.

Medicare started in 1965. As soon as the Govt got Medicare going thats when the price of benefits started going up and have never stopped. Why?? Because the Govt only pays part of anything so those with iinsurance coverage get charged more to make up the difference. So I guess you could say its all the Govt's fault. If Medicare had never been instituted I wonder what healthcare costs would be today????

Do I think the Insurance companies are innocent, hell no. They have to make a profit

The Govt has never run anything cheaply or well and I am surprised that anyone would want Govt in charge of their healtcare or 1/6th of the economy either. This will turn into a giant costly mess.

Yes, but I'm not going to blame the insurance companies. I will blame the government who put a system in place that eliminated most of the competition between insurance companies and not only encouraged, but essentially legislated them into the practices that make healthcare more costly for all of us. Insurance for everything else--you know all that stuff the government hasn't interfered with or regulates appropriately--remains affordable.

I was working in a hospital when Medicare when into effect--I saw the costs, I saw the bills, and I saw the trends. From day one, Medicare corrupted the system and redesigned the playing field. Until then, healthcare was affordable for just about everybody and private donates and charity was able to pick up a lot of the costs for the few who couldn't afford it. Once Medicare went into effect, we saw the costs begin to increase sharply, and when Medicaid was added, the private citizen and private providers lost all control.

I fully believe, just as everything else left to the free market, had the government stayed out of healthcare, we would still have an affordable and manageable system. And I have comlete confidence that any new government interference/involvement will make it far worse.

Sound like your in my age bracke Foxy?? Boy. Remember when $5.00 filled your gas tank and you could afford things??

I agree totally. If Govt had stayed the hell out of healthcare we wouldn't have the problems we have today. The free market would still be working. AS I said, the Govt isn't the solution its the problem. Too bad everyone can't see that.

Absolutely the govt is the problem. We need children working in coal mines again to boost the economy and compete with China on labor rates.
Darned child labor laws.

If our children had still been working in textile mills we would not have lost that industry to offshore.

 

[Foxfyre]

Absolutely the govt is the problem. We need children working in coal mines again to boost the economy and compete with China on labor rates.
Darned child labor laws.

If our children had still been working in textile mills we would not have lost that industry to offshore.

Somebody suggested I didn't know what a non sequitur was. To that person I point to uscitizen's post here and say, "Look! Here's one." Also a huge red herring.

 

[uscitizen]

$5 filled your tank. And the average home cost maybe 15k? A new impala was 3k, etc...

We seem to forget the average income was under 10k.

 

[Claudette]

$5 filled your tank. And the average home cost maybe 15k? A new impala was 3k, etc...

We seem to forget the average income was under 10k.

We also seem to forget that no one had credit cards and you payed cash for everything. It worked better that way believe me.

 

[uscitizen]

$5 filled your tank. And the average home cost maybe 15k? A new impala was 3k, etc...

We seem to forget the average income was under 10k.

We also seem to forget that no one had credit cards and you payed cash for everything. It worked better that way believe me.

No credit cards but we did have revolving charge accounts.

But yes a good point. We had not become a consumer based economy armed with plentiful credit cards and home equity loans. And car loans were 2 years instead of 76 months or so as now.

 

[MaggieMae]

Of course the bill sucks now. 40 million or so of lobbyist money has been spent to achieve on of the following goals.

1.. Kill heealthcare reform.
2.. Kill it by making the bill something no one wants.
3.. Make sure if it passes it is favorable to those contributing the lobbyist monies.


Perhaps we will likely have a mix of 2 and 3.

Starting out as a simple foundation for health care reform, the myriad "bills" driving through the halls of Congress has met up with so many stop signs placed in the road by special interests that the new model looks like something dropped from Uranus .

 

[Foxfyre]

Starting out as a simple foundation for health care reform, the myriad "bills" driving through the halls of Congress has met up with so many stop signs placed in the road by special interests that the new model looks like something dropped from Uranus .

We found a point of agreement here Maggie.

No sensible people I think, certainly not me and not you, have suggested there was no need for reform or improvement in the system. But the way this has gone, it does appear that the only 'improvement' made has been in catering to the special interests to the detriment of everybody else, and all the truly good reform measures they could have implemented or pushed for got squashed or dismissed out of hand.

So we wind up with no reform at all and a very expensive piece of legislation that the majority of Americans do not want and in fact fear.

That is not good leadership or conduct from our elected leaders.

 

[MaggieMae]

Of course the bill sucks now. 40 million or so of lobbyist money has been spent to achieve on of the following goals.

1.. Kill heealthcare reform.
2.. Kill it by making the bill something no one wants.
3.. Make sure if it passes it is favorable to those contributing the lobbyist monies.


Perhaps we will likely have a mix of 2 and 3.

I guess if you guys didn't elect Democrats that could be bought, we wouldn't be in this spot. People of principle that made sure it was something people wanted. Gee, I'd even take Congresspersons that could see over 61% of Americans don't want their plan.

How funny. Who do you think kept the Don't-Tax-But-Spend-Anyway Republicans in power for so long? Can you say Big Oil with their massive subsidies on top of obscene profits?

 

[MaggieMae]

Who created the messes they are trying to clean up?

I dont think the republics did anything but make the messes

Come now Truth, you know that the mess that congress created is the result of both parties not listening to those they represent and freely doing as they wish or as those on K Street wish them too. That is why the current healthcare bill doesn't even have a basic premise in it that the Democrat party themselves put in their party plank in Denver in 2008. We have seen the results of years of people wishing for change then turing around and voting for the same people who have been there and hoping that they will change. The only way that anyone will ever see the results they desire from these individuals, regardless of what that may be is to STOP voting for those that have gotten us there in the first place. Let me give you an example, while I'm sure some Senator is a good person, but frankly if they don't accomplish anything after being there for 20 plus years then perhaps to expect anything close to change is a lot to hope for. No matter what party that Senator belongs too.

What's truly an odity about the American psyche is that although Congress gets an F, with the lowest approval ratings in history, when asked whether a person likes his/her OWN lawmakers, the answer is almost always yes. Go figure.

 

[Care4all]

fyi

Citizen's Guide to the Federal Budget: Fiscal Year 2001

3. How Does the Government Create a Budget?

The President and Congress both play major roles in developing the Federal budget.
The President's Budget

The law requires that, by the first Monday in February, the President submit to Congress his proposed Federal budget for the next fiscal year, which begins October 1.

The White House's Office of Management and Budget (OMB) prepares the budget proposal, after receiving direction from the President and consulting with his senior advisors and officials from Cabinet departments and other agencies.

The President's budget--which typically includes a main book and several accompanying books1--covers thousands of pages and provides an abundance of details.
The Budget Process

Through the budget process, the President and Congress decide how much to spend and tax in any one fiscal year. More specifically, they decide how much to spend on each activity, ensure that the Government spends no more and spends it only for that activity, and report on that spending at the end of each budget cycle.

The President's budget is his plan for the next year. But it's just a proposal. After receiving it, Congress has its own budget process to follow. Only after the Congress passes, and the President signs, the required spending bills has the Government created its actual budget.