Let's have some Fun: What if Luft46 had become a reality

[Daryl Hunt]

So the ETO goes on for another year. Let's see what the Luftwaffe would have faced.

Hundreds of P-80s that would have been rung out by August of 1945. Meaning, they would have been battle ready with a top speed over 50 mph faster than the 262. And more on the way.

Hundreds of B-45s. More than a few B-35s and a host of others including the B-29. Even the B-36 might have been possible. The list of bombers that could have been produced had the war gone on longer is staggering.

A couple or three German Cities would be glow in the dark. You could read at night without a lamp. And the AAF would have the bombers to deliver them.

Most of these didn't happen. The Allies didn't need them. But if Germany had found a way to go one more year, the technology of the US and Britain would have produced them. Mostly the US.

This is adding the consideration that Germany found new ways to make fuel. The Aircraft they would have presented wouldn't have changed that much. Only the numbers in the air would. Also, Germany would have to get more butts in the seats.

German Navy? Where? Has anyone really seen it in strength from 1944 on?

I'll let the ground pounders add the tanks and other weapons. But Germany would have suffered even worse than it did even on the ground as new Allied Weapons made the scene that normally would not be introduced until 1947 and beyond.

 

[Bleipriester]

Far from reality. If the war would have continued, Germany´s strength at the time would have been another. The development of new engines and fighters in Germany would have continued. The P-80 underperformed in Korea and hundreds were lost. Germany produced 774 Me 262 in 1945.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Far from reality. If the war would have continued, Germany´s strength at the time would have been another. The development of new engines and fighters in Germany would have continued. The P-80 underperformed in Korea and hundreds were lost. Germany produced 774 Me 262 in 1945.

The P-80, amonst other middle to late 40 jet fighters, performed just fine. Until the Mig-15 made the scene. And the Mig-15 was powered by a british designed motor.

The US was already capable of building the Axial Flow engine like all the modern jets are today. They could have started production in 1937. The original Lockheed engine that was built was never fired up. After the war, many engineers tried to find fault in it but couldn't. In 1937, the Germans had infiltrated the US Industries to the point where many of the things they claimed that they invented actually came out of the US. For instance, the very successful German Bombsite looked remarkably like a Norden. The problem the US had was the DOW didn't see any application for the engine and it wasn't funded. There is one copy of the original lockheed 1937 engine with afterburner and it's in a museum. Germany didn't share those views and went for it. Even the Brits were still working on the Centrifical Chamber that was used in the P-80/T-33. August 1945 is a special day for the P-80. The bugs were ironed out and it went fully operational in the Philippines. While the war with Japan was still going on, it was just too late to get the jet into the fracus. For such a bad fighter, the TP-80C also known as the T-33 has outlived everything else. There are Air Forces in the world that still fly it. It outlived all others. Someday, the Mig-15 might take that title but before it can, the T-33 has to go from the skies.

While the 262, overall, might be a superior fighter, the problem it had was the 10 hours of operational time on it's engines. That means, including ground operations, the 262 might make 2 flights before the combustion blades would fail. Usually in a very spectacular way. It's top speed was 540mph. The YFs and XPF -80s were 520. But the operational P-80 that went operational were hitting 600 mph and could fly multiple missions on multiple days. I worked around the T-33s at Peterson Field (now AFB) and found that they were just bullet proof as trainers. About the only way they wouldn't bring you home was if you crashed it nose down. Landing gear not coming down? No problem. Land it on it's two aux tanks. The tanks would go to the sheet metal shop and be fixed in one day. The T-33 would require little fixing and would be flying with new drop tanks the next day. They were the ideal Pilot Trainer for the Academy.

The problem Germany had was, early on, they lost their supply of Titanium. They used other methods on their Combustion Turbines like hollow stainless steel. Even if the war had gone on another year, the 262 would be wrought with this problem. There are a few 262s flying today in the civilian world. Not one single German Engine inside them. The are using the J-85 from the T-37 to make them air worthy. The J-85 dates back to the Lockheed L-1000 but so does the Jumo. The US didn't spend a lot of money on the L-1000 because it was so new that the DOW couldn't understand the importance or they believed they could win the war without it. Germany didn't make that mistake. So by 1943, the Germans had an operation Axial Flow engine mating it to both the 262 and the 234. What they lacked was a large supply of Titanium for the combustion Chambers and turbines.

 

[Bleipriester]

Far from reality. If the war would have continued, Germany´s strength at the time would have been another. The development of new engines and fighters in Germany would have continued. The P-80 underperformed in Korea and hundreds were lost. Germany produced 774 Me 262 in 1945.

The P-80, amonst other middle to late 40 jet fighters, performed just fine. Until the Mig-15 made the scene. And the Mig-15 was powered by a british designed motor.

The US was already capable of building the Axial Flow engine like all the modern jets are today. They could have started production in 1937. The original Lockheed engine that was built was never fired up. After the war, many engineers tried to find fault in it but couldn't. In 1937, the Germans had infiltrated the US Industries to the point where many of the things they claimed that they invented actually came out of the US. For instance, the very successful German Bombsite looked remarkably like a Norden. The problem the US had was the DOW didn't see any application for the engine and it wasn't funded. There is one copy of the original lockheed 1937 engine with afterburner and it's in a museum. Germany didn't share those views and went for it. Even the Brits were still working on the Centrifical Chamber that was used in the P-80/T-33. August 1945 is a special day for the P-80. The bugs were ironed out and it went fully operational in the Philippines. While the war with Japan was still going on, it was just too late to get the jet into the fracus. For such a bad fighter, the TP-80C also known as the T-33 has outlived everything else. There are Air Forces in the world that still fly it. It outlived all others. Someday, the Mig-15 might take that title but before it can, the T-33 has to go from the skies.

While the 262, overall, might be a superior fighter, the problem it had was the 10 hours of operational time on it's engines. That means, including ground operations, the 262 might make 2 flights before the combustion blades would fail. Usually in a very spectacular way. It's top speed was 540mph. The YFs and XPF -80s were 520. But the operational P-80 that went operational were hitting 600 mph and could fly multiple missions on multiple days. I worked around the T-33s at Peterson Field (now AFB) and found that they were just bullet proof as trainers. About the only way they wouldn't bring you home was if you crashed it nose down. Landing gear not coming down? No problem. Land it on it's two aux tanks. The tanks would go to the sheet metal shop and be fixed in one day. The T-33 would require little fixing and would be flying with new drop tanks the next day. They were the ideal Pilot Trainer for the Academy.

The problem Germany had was, early on, they lost their supply of Titanium. They used other methods on their Combustion Turbines like hollow stainless steel. Even if the war had gone on another year, the 262 would be wrought with this problem. There are a few 262s flying today in the civilian world. Not one single German Engine inside them. The are using the J-85 from the T-37 to make them air worthy. The J-85 dates back to the Lockheed L-1000 but so does the Jumo. The US didn't spend a lot of money on the L-1000 because it was so new that the DOW couldn't understand the importance or they believed they could win the war without it. Germany didn't make that mistake. So by 1943, the Germans had an operation Axial Flow engine mating it to both the 262 and the 234. What they lacked was a large supply of Titanium for the combustion Chambers and turbines.

Operation Paperclip proves it was the other way round. After that, the Americans suddenly had operational jet fighters, rockets and even flying saucers were reported that go back to the secret Haunebu program. In the wildest theories, those things were powered by antimatter and even visited the Mars.

While the Jumo engines required a lot of maintenance, 10 hours seems to be drastically underrated. Junkers was on the only supplier of jet engines, by the way, BMW was too.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Far from reality. If the war would have continued, Germany´s strength at the time would have been another. The development of new engines and fighters in Germany would have continued. The P-80 underperformed in Korea and hundreds were lost. Germany produced 774 Me 262 in 1945.

The P-80, amonst other middle to late 40 jet fighters, performed just fine. Until the Mig-15 made the scene. And the Mig-15 was powered by a british designed motor.

The US was already capable of building the Axial Flow engine like all the modern jets are today. They could have started production in 1937. The original Lockheed engine that was built was never fired up. After the war, many engineers tried to find fault in it but couldn't. In 1937, the Germans had infiltrated the US Industries to the point where many of the things they claimed that they invented actually came out of the US. For instance, the very successful German Bombsite looked remarkably like a Norden. The problem the US had was the DOW didn't see any application for the engine and it wasn't funded. There is one copy of the original lockheed 1937 engine with afterburner and it's in a museum. Germany didn't share those views and went for it. Even the Brits were still working on the Centrifical Chamber that was used in the P-80/T-33. August 1945 is a special day for the P-80. The bugs were ironed out and it went fully operational in the Philippines. While the war with Japan was still going on, it was just too late to get the jet into the fracus. For such a bad fighter, the TP-80C also known as the T-33 has outlived everything else. There are Air Forces in the world that still fly it. It outlived all others. Someday, the Mig-15 might take that title but before it can, the T-33 has to go from the skies.

While the 262, overall, might be a superior fighter, the problem it had was the 10 hours of operational time on it's engines. That means, including ground operations, the 262 might make 2 flights before the combustion blades would fail. Usually in a very spectacular way. It's top speed was 540mph. The YFs and XPF -80s were 520. But the operational P-80 that went operational were hitting 600 mph and could fly multiple missions on multiple days. I worked around the T-33s at Peterson Field (now AFB) and found that they were just bullet proof as trainers. About the only way they wouldn't bring you home was if you crashed it nose down. Landing gear not coming down? No problem. Land it on it's two aux tanks. The tanks would go to the sheet metal shop and be fixed in one day. The T-33 would require little fixing and would be flying with new drop tanks the next day. They were the ideal Pilot Trainer for the Academy.

The problem Germany had was, early on, they lost their supply of Titanium. They used other methods on their Combustion Turbines like hollow stainless steel. Even if the war had gone on another year, the 262 would be wrought with this problem. There are a few 262s flying today in the civilian world. Not one single German Engine inside them. The are using the J-85 from the T-37 to make them air worthy. The J-85 dates back to the Lockheed L-1000 but so does the Jumo. The US didn't spend a lot of money on the L-1000 because it was so new that the DOW couldn't understand the importance or they believed they could win the war without it. Germany didn't make that mistake. So by 1943, the Germans had an operation Axial Flow engine mating it to both the 262 and the 234. What they lacked was a large supply of Titanium for the combustion Chambers and turbines.

Operation Paperclip proves it was the other way round. After that, the Americans suddenly had operational jet fighters, rockets and even flying saucers were reported that go back to the secret Haunebu program. In the wildest theories, those things were powered by antimatter and even visited the Mars.

While the Jumo engines required a lot of maintenance, 10 hours seems to be drastically underrated. Junkers was on the only supplier of jet engines, by the way, BMW was too.

Duquesne Spy Ring 33 convictions in 1942. They weren't just there to sabatage, they were also there to gather information on the War Effort.

World War II: First German Spy Ring in America (1936-38)
World War II -- first German spy ring in America
http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/code/sci/ger/abw/rings/us/gsrus-first.html
There is a lot more. Germany was spying on the US and steeling technology even before the war began in Europe. Operation Paper Clip happened AFTER the VE day. By then, the Germans couldn't even mail a letter to the US without being bagged. Again, Lockheed had the Axial Flow Jet Engine in 1937 while the Brits and German were still playing around with the Centrifugal type. The Norden bomb site design was stolen in 1936.

As for the Jumo engines, the US tried to test a captured 262 and it couldn't' even make one flight without trashing an engine. They had a spare and on the next flight it trashed another engine. Total flying hours on that test was just over 4 hours. The claim of 25 hours that the Germans claimed was highly exaggerated. The US abandoned testing on the 262.

AS for modern wings, the modern fighter wings owes it's origins to the Lockheed l-133 from 1937. Lockheed invented the leading edge bleed are enabling short stubby wings to perform as IF it were swept back and longer with less drag. Hence the F-104, F-5, F-18 and more. This also includes the F-22 as well. The P-38s outerwing was from this, the P-80 wing was from this. This is why the P-80 had as high as speed and quickly dwarfed the 262 in performance. The first operational Swept Wing goes to the British in 1909. But many were experimenting with it during that time period. The myth that the Germans were the first to have an operation Swept Wing is just that. In 1914, the British Royal Flying Corp. The Dune D.5 was the first to go operational. It was proven in 1909 that the stability was improved when a demonstration was given where the pilot took his hands off the controls and the bird flew unassisted while the pilot was taking notes on a notepad.

I suppose next you will go on about the flying wing, stealth and other things. Go for it. Got answers for that as well.

 

[Bleipriester]

I suppose next you will go on about the flying wing, stealth and other things. Go for it. Got answers for that as well.

That´s what we talked about already. Why don´t we talk about choppers?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I suppose next you will go on about the flying wing, stealth and other things. Go for it. Got answers for that as well.

That´s what we talked about already. Why don´t we talk about choppers?

Sure.

RD-5 1943 Retired 1957

R-4 / Hoverfly Jan, 1942. It was used primarily as a rescue chopper and recon. But it also was used to drop Spec Ops into hot zones.

The point here is, no one can really grab who came up with it first. It seemed that the Brits, US and Germany were working on the same thing at the same time. I forget what that's called but it happens more often than not.

The Sikorsky gets the nod for the first Chopper to be used in war. It was used in 1939 which predates what you posted and I posted. And that honor goes to the VS-300 used for battle recon.

As one author said, the Development of the Chopper had no affect on any outcome of WWII but it did affect a few lives that it save by transporting them to safety. And the only country routinely doing that was the US.

Try again.

 

[Bleipriester]

I suppose next you will go on about the flying wing, stealth and other things. Go for it. Got answers for that as well.

That´s what we talked about already. Why don´t we talk about choppers?

Sure.

RD-5 1943 Retired 1957

R-4 / Hoverfly Jan, 1942. It was used primarily as a rescue chopper and recon. But it also was used to drop Spec Ops into hot zones.

The point here is, no one can really grab who came up with it first. It seemed that the Brits, US and Germany were working on the same thing at the same time. I forget what that's called but it happens more often than not.

The Sikorsky gets the nod for the first Chopper to be used in war. It was used in 1939 which predates what you posted and I posted. And that honor goes to the VS-300 used for battle recon.

As one author said, the Development of the Chopper had no affect on any outcome of WWII but it did affect a few lives that it save by transporting them to safety. And the only country routinely doing that was the US.

Try again.

"The Focke Achgelis Fa 61 was the first fully controllable helicopter. It first flew in 1936. It is more properly known as the Fa 61 as it was a research aircraft of the Focke Achgelis company."

"1938, May 19 : Comes carried out to Washington the first flight mails with an autogyro. The regular service, carried out with a Kellet KD-1 of the Eastern Airlines, began July 6th, but then it was abandoned for practical reasons."

"1939 : Igor Sikorsky (USA) The VS 300 was the first useful single-rotor helicopter. A design refined enough to be converted in the R-4 years later and put into production."

"Nazi Germany is the first to use helicopters in combat. Fa223, Fl265 y Fl282 were used for rescue, artillery spotting and convoys submarine protection.

Most Advanced WWII Helicopter"

Focke Achgelis Fa 61 Prototype helicopter
Helicopters 1930/1945

Try again.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I suppose next you will go on about the flying wing, stealth and other things. Go for it. Got answers for that as well.

That´s what we talked about already. Why don´t we talk about choppers?

Sure.

RD-5 1943 Retired 1957

R-4 / Hoverfly Jan, 1942. It was used primarily as a rescue chopper and recon. But it also was used to drop Spec Ops into hot zones.

The point here is, no one can really grab who came up with it first. It seemed that the Brits, US and Germany were working on the same thing at the same time. I forget what that's called but it happens more often than not.

The Sikorsky gets the nod for the first Chopper to be used in war. It was used in 1939 which predates what you posted and I posted. And that honor goes to the VS-300 used for battle recon.

As one author said, the Development of the Chopper had no affect on any outcome of WWII but it did affect a few lives that it save by transporting them to safety. And the only country routinely doing that was the US.

Try again.

"The Focke Achgelis Fa 61 was the first fully controllable helicopter. It first flew in 1936. It is more properly known as the Fa 61 as it was a research aircraft of the Focke Achgelis company."

"1938, May 19 : Comes carried out to Washington the first flight mails with an autogyro. The regular service, carried out with a Kellet KD-1 of the Eastern Airlines, began July 6th, but then it was abandoned for practical reasons."

"1939 : Igor Sikorsky (USA) The VS 300 was the first useful single-rotor helicopter. A design refined enough to be converted in the R-4 years later and put into production."

"Nazi Germany is the first to use helicopters in combat. Fa223, Fl265 y Fl282 were used for rescue, artillery spotting and convoys submarine protection.

Most Advanced WWII Helicopter"

Focke Achgelis Fa 61 Prototype helicopter
Helicopters 1930/1945

Try again.

I do like i when your kind tries to rewrite history. The FA-61 was only a prototype with only 2 built. It was NEVER operational and it was less than practical. It's just a prototype that led to the ones that did go into service. The VS300 was in service not long after it was produced. And it was used as a combat observation in 1939. IT is listed as the first Operational and the first practical Helicopter. In order to make this list, you need to own both titles. Although the VS-300 is listed as an experimental, it was in production, more than a few were made and it was in service in the Royal Air Service. Can you guess what battle it was observing or spotting for? Remember what happened with the Brits in 1939?

It's hard to say whom was first. But it wasn't either the US nor Germany by a long shot. I would venture a guess it was the French. Of course, the first successful (1 built) was by the Dutch. Does this mean anything? patent number 265,272. Are you counting that because Germany overran his country and that made it a German Idea?

If you compare more than a few manufactured and those that went into service, there are only two that comes to mind. The FI-282 and the RD-4. The FI just poked holes in the sky. It really wasn't that useful in 1942. But the RD-4 had a useful cargo rating. It was used for Rescue, Cargo and Observation. Without it, the Burma China Campaign may not have been successful. It had the performance to go over the hump so it was used to ferry people (as an ambulance) and parts. Like I said, the FI was a toy in comparison. It's like calling a one seater sports car a truck. And it was in service in 1942.

If you are going to include Prototypes, the nod still goes to the Dutch or the French who both were done in the 20s and successfully flown. They weren't really practical but this led to others being successful.

The other two you mention are Gyrocopters. Sorry, but that goes to Davinci who first put it to paper. But the first successful one goes to a Spaniard in 1923. While it never saw any war, it was in production by 1925 and used in France, England and the US.

Try again Herr.

 

[Bleipriester]

I suppose next you will go on about the flying wing, stealth and other things. Go for it. Got answers for that as well.

That´s what we talked about already. Why don´t we talk about choppers?

Sure.

RD-5 1943 Retired 1957

R-4 / Hoverfly Jan, 1942. It was used primarily as a rescue chopper and recon. But it also was used to drop Spec Ops into hot zones.

The point here is, no one can really grab who came up with it first. It seemed that the Brits, US and Germany were working on the same thing at the same time. I forget what that's called but it happens more often than not.

The Sikorsky gets the nod for the first Chopper to be used in war. It was used in 1939 which predates what you posted and I posted. And that honor goes to the VS-300 used for battle recon.

As one author said, the Development of the Chopper had no affect on any outcome of WWII but it did affect a few lives that it save by transporting them to safety. And the only country routinely doing that was the US.

Try again.

"The Focke Achgelis Fa 61 was the first fully controllable helicopter. It first flew in 1936. It is more properly known as the Fa 61 as it was a research aircraft of the Focke Achgelis company."

"1938, May 19 : Comes carried out to Washington the first flight mails with an autogyro. The regular service, carried out with a Kellet KD-1 of the Eastern Airlines, began July 6th, but then it was abandoned for practical reasons."

"1939 : Igor Sikorsky (USA) The VS 300 was the first useful single-rotor helicopter. A design refined enough to be converted in the R-4 years later and put into production."

"Nazi Germany is the first to use helicopters in combat. Fa223, Fl265 y Fl282 were used for rescue, artillery spotting and convoys submarine protection.

Most Advanced WWII Helicopter"

Focke Achgelis Fa 61 Prototype helicopter
Helicopters 1930/1945

Try again.

I do like i when your kind tries to rewrite history. The FA-61 was only a prototype with only 2 built. It was NEVER operational and it was less than practical. It's just a prototype that led to the ones that did go into service. The VS300 was in service not long after it was produced. And it was used as a combat observation in 1939. IT is listed as the first Operational and the first practical Helicopter. In order to make this list, you need to own both titles. Although the VS-300 is listed as an experimental, it was in production, more than a few were made and it was in service in the Royal Air Service. Can you guess what battle it was observing or spotting for? Remember what happened with the Brits in 1939?

It's hard to say whom was first. But it wasn't either the US nor Germany by a long shot. I would venture a guess it was the French. Of course, the first successful (1 built) was by the Dutch. Does this mean anything? patent number 265,272. Are you counting that because Germany overran his country and that made it a German Idea?

If you compare more than a few manufactured and those that went into service, there are only two that comes to mind. The FI-282 and the RD-4. The FI just poked holes in the sky. It really wasn't that useful in 1942. But the RD-4 had a useful cargo rating. It was used for Rescue, Cargo and Observation. Without it, the Burma China Campaign may not have been successful. It had the performance to go over the hump so it was used to ferry people (as an ambulance) and parts. Like I said, the FI was a toy in comparison. It's like calling a one seater sports car a truck. And it was in service in 1942.

If you are going to include Prototypes, the nod still goes to the Dutch or the French who both were done in the 20s and successfully flown. They weren't really practical but this led to others being successful.

The other two you mention are Gyrocopters. Sorry, but that goes to Davinci who first put it to paper. But the first successful one goes to a Spaniard in 1923. While it never saw any war, it was in production by 1925 and used in France, England and the US.

Try again Herr.

You see the sources, denial is useless.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I suppose next you will go on about the flying wing, stealth and other things. Go for it. Got answers for that as well.

That´s what we talked about already. Why don´t we talk about choppers?

Sure.

RD-5 1943 Retired 1957

R-4 / Hoverfly Jan, 1942. It was used primarily as a rescue chopper and recon. But it also was used to drop Spec Ops into hot zones.

The point here is, no one can really grab who came up with it first. It seemed that the Brits, US and Germany were working on the same thing at the same time. I forget what that's called but it happens more often than not.

The Sikorsky gets the nod for the first Chopper to be used in war. It was used in 1939 which predates what you posted and I posted. And that honor goes to the VS-300 used for battle recon.

As one author said, the Development of the Chopper had no affect on any outcome of WWII but it did affect a few lives that it save by transporting them to safety. And the only country routinely doing that was the US.

Try again.

"The Focke Achgelis Fa 61 was the first fully controllable helicopter. It first flew in 1936. It is more properly known as the Fa 61 as it was a research aircraft of the Focke Achgelis company."

"1938, May 19 : Comes carried out to Washington the first flight mails with an autogyro. The regular service, carried out with a Kellet KD-1 of the Eastern Airlines, began July 6th, but then it was abandoned for practical reasons."

"1939 : Igor Sikorsky (USA) The VS 300 was the first useful single-rotor helicopter. A design refined enough to be converted in the R-4 years later and put into production."

"Nazi Germany is the first to use helicopters in combat. Fa223, Fl265 y Fl282 were used for rescue, artillery spotting and convoys submarine protection.

Most Advanced WWII Helicopter"

Focke Achgelis Fa 61 Prototype helicopter
Helicopters 1930/1945

Try again.

I do like i when your kind tries to rewrite history. The FA-61 was only a prototype with only 2 built. It was NEVER operational and it was less than practical. It's just a prototype that led to the ones that did go into service. The VS300 was in service not long after it was produced. And it was used as a combat observation in 1939. IT is listed as the first Operational and the first practical Helicopter. In order to make this list, you need to own both titles. Although the VS-300 is listed as an experimental, it was in production, more than a few were made and it was in service in the Royal Air Service. Can you guess what battle it was observing or spotting for? Remember what happened with the Brits in 1939?

It's hard to say whom was first. But it wasn't either the US nor Germany by a long shot. I would venture a guess it was the French. Of course, the first successful (1 built) was by the Dutch. Does this mean anything? patent number 265,272. Are you counting that because Germany overran his country and that made it a German Idea?

If you compare more than a few manufactured and those that went into service, there are only two that comes to mind. The FI-282 and the RD-4. The FI just poked holes in the sky. It really wasn't that useful in 1942. But the RD-4 had a useful cargo rating. It was used for Rescue, Cargo and Observation. Without it, the Burma China Campaign may not have been successful. It had the performance to go over the hump so it was used to ferry people (as an ambulance) and parts. Like I said, the FI was a toy in comparison. It's like calling a one seater sports car a truck. And it was in service in 1942.

If you are going to include Prototypes, the nod still goes to the Dutch or the French who both were done in the 20s and successfully flown. They weren't really practical but this led to others being successful.

The other two you mention are Gyrocopters. Sorry, but that goes to Davinci who first put it to paper. But the first successful one goes to a Spaniard in 1923. While it never saw any war, it was in production by 1925 and used in France, England and the US.

Try again Herr.

You see the sources, denial is useless.

And you need to stop reading in to see what you wanted to see in the first place. There is nothing wrong with your cites. It's your adding your opinion to them rather than just accepting the information. Get over yourself. Nationalism may be a good thing but often can turn into a major World War at least twice.

 

[Bleipriester]

That´s what we talked about already. Why don´t we talk about choppers?

Sure.

RD-5 1943 Retired 1957

R-4 / Hoverfly Jan, 1942. It was used primarily as a rescue chopper and recon. But it also was used to drop Spec Ops into hot zones.

The point here is, no one can really grab who came up with it first. It seemed that the Brits, US and Germany were working on the same thing at the same time. I forget what that's called but it happens more often than not.

The Sikorsky gets the nod for the first Chopper to be used in war. It was used in 1939 which predates what you posted and I posted. And that honor goes to the VS-300 used for battle recon.

As one author said, the Development of the Chopper had no affect on any outcome of WWII but it did affect a few lives that it save by transporting them to safety. And the only country routinely doing that was the US.

Try again.

"The Focke Achgelis Fa 61 was the first fully controllable helicopter. It first flew in 1936. It is more properly known as the Fa 61 as it was a research aircraft of the Focke Achgelis company."

"1938, May 19 : Comes carried out to Washington the first flight mails with an autogyro. The regular service, carried out with a Kellet KD-1 of the Eastern Airlines, began July 6th, but then it was abandoned for practical reasons."

"1939 : Igor Sikorsky (USA) The VS 300 was the first useful single-rotor helicopter. A design refined enough to be converted in the R-4 years later and put into production."

"Nazi Germany is the first to use helicopters in combat. Fa223, Fl265 y Fl282 were used for rescue, artillery spotting and convoys submarine protection.

Most Advanced WWII Helicopter"

Focke Achgelis Fa 61 Prototype helicopter
Helicopters 1930/1945

Try again.

I do like i when your kind tries to rewrite history. The FA-61 was only a prototype with only 2 built. It was NEVER operational and it was less than practical. It's just a prototype that led to the ones that did go into service. The VS300 was in service not long after it was produced. And it was used as a combat observation in 1939. IT is listed as the first Operational and the first practical Helicopter. In order to make this list, you need to own both titles. Although the VS-300 is listed as an experimental, it was in production, more than a few were made and it was in service in the Royal Air Service. Can you guess what battle it was observing or spotting for? Remember what happened with the Brits in 1939?

It's hard to say whom was first. But it wasn't either the US nor Germany by a long shot. I would venture a guess it was the French. Of course, the first successful (1 built) was by the Dutch. Does this mean anything? patent number 265,272. Are you counting that because Germany overran his country and that made it a German Idea?

If you compare more than a few manufactured and those that went into service, there are only two that comes to mind. The FI-282 and the RD-4. The FI just poked holes in the sky. It really wasn't that useful in 1942. But the RD-4 had a useful cargo rating. It was used for Rescue, Cargo and Observation. Without it, the Burma China Campaign may not have been successful. It had the performance to go over the hump so it was used to ferry people (as an ambulance) and parts. Like I said, the FI was a toy in comparison. It's like calling a one seater sports car a truck. And it was in service in 1942.

If you are going to include Prototypes, the nod still goes to the Dutch or the French who both were done in the 20s and successfully flown. They weren't really practical but this led to others being successful.

The other two you mention are Gyrocopters. Sorry, but that goes to Davinci who first put it to paper. But the first successful one goes to a Spaniard in 1923. While it never saw any war, it was in production by 1925 and used in France, England and the US.

Try again Herr.

You see the sources, denial is useless.

And you need to stop reading in to see what you wanted to see in the first place. There is nothing wrong with your cites. It's your adding your opinion to them rather than just accepting the information. Get over yourself. Nationalism may be a good thing but often can turn into a major World War at least twice.

I did not add an opinion. And what about nationalism? You mean German nationalism, in fact. In modern history, there is only black and white and Germany bears the sole responsibility for the world wars. German achievements made during the 12 years of the Third Reich prove what Germany is capable of when there is no one oppressing the country. Of course, the race craze was not acceptable but do you think, Germany was the only one oppressing the opposition? But the Third Reich is not an exception. Since the country was truly united, the economic results were incredible:
List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia

We can compare the developments in the USA with Germany. Germany was very late to become a truly integrative country, way behind the USA. This comes along with a higher degree of patriotism, absolutely normal. Second, the political conditions prior to the Third Reich were a hotbed for nationalism and socialism.

You think, the USA is an exception and superior to other countries, because you are nationalist. But all the great and respected achievements made in the USA should not blind your view for the other countries´s achievements.

"Few countries have contributed so much to science and technology as Germany. For most of the 20th century, Germany had more Nobel Prizes in the sciences than any other nation, and today the raw output of German scientific research consistently ranks among the world's best."
Germany, a world leader in technology, engineering and innovation

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Sure.

RD-5 1943 Retired 1957

R-4 / Hoverfly Jan, 1942. It was used primarily as a rescue chopper and recon. But it also was used to drop Spec Ops into hot zones.

The point here is, no one can really grab who came up with it first. It seemed that the Brits, US and Germany were working on the same thing at the same time. I forget what that's called but it happens more often than not.

The Sikorsky gets the nod for the first Chopper to be used in war. It was used in 1939 which predates what you posted and I posted. And that honor goes to the VS-300 used for battle recon.

As one author said, the Development of the Chopper had no affect on any outcome of WWII but it did affect a few lives that it save by transporting them to safety. And the only country routinely doing that was the US.

Try again.

"The Focke Achgelis Fa 61 was the first fully controllable helicopter. It first flew in 1936. It is more properly known as the Fa 61 as it was a research aircraft of the Focke Achgelis company."

"1938, May 19 : Comes carried out to Washington the first flight mails with an autogyro. The regular service, carried out with a Kellet KD-1 of the Eastern Airlines, began July 6th, but then it was abandoned for practical reasons."

"1939 : Igor Sikorsky (USA) The VS 300 was the first useful single-rotor helicopter. A design refined enough to be converted in the R-4 years later and put into production."

"Nazi Germany is the first to use helicopters in combat. Fa223, Fl265 y Fl282 were used for rescue, artillery spotting and convoys submarine protection.

Most Advanced WWII Helicopter"

Focke Achgelis Fa 61 Prototype helicopter
Helicopters 1930/1945

Try again.

I do like i when your kind tries to rewrite history. The FA-61 was only a prototype with only 2 built. It was NEVER operational and it was less than practical. It's just a prototype that led to the ones that did go into service. The VS300 was in service not long after it was produced. And it was used as a combat observation in 1939. IT is listed as the first Operational and the first practical Helicopter. In order to make this list, you need to own both titles. Although the VS-300 is listed as an experimental, it was in production, more than a few were made and it was in service in the Royal Air Service. Can you guess what battle it was observing or spotting for? Remember what happened with the Brits in 1939?

It's hard to say whom was first. But it wasn't either the US nor Germany by a long shot. I would venture a guess it was the French. Of course, the first successful (1 built) was by the Dutch. Does this mean anything? patent number 265,272. Are you counting that because Germany overran his country and that made it a German Idea?

If you compare more than a few manufactured and those that went into service, there are only two that comes to mind. The FI-282 and the RD-4. The FI just poked holes in the sky. It really wasn't that useful in 1942. But the RD-4 had a useful cargo rating. It was used for Rescue, Cargo and Observation. Without it, the Burma China Campaign may not have been successful. It had the performance to go over the hump so it was used to ferry people (as an ambulance) and parts. Like I said, the FI was a toy in comparison. It's like calling a one seater sports car a truck. And it was in service in 1942.

If you are going to include Prototypes, the nod still goes to the Dutch or the French who both were done in the 20s and successfully flown. They weren't really practical but this led to others being successful.

The other two you mention are Gyrocopters. Sorry, but that goes to Davinci who first put it to paper. But the first successful one goes to a Spaniard in 1923. While it never saw any war, it was in production by 1925 and used in France, England and the US.

Try again Herr.

You see the sources, denial is useless.

And you need to stop reading in to see what you wanted to see in the first place. There is nothing wrong with your cites. It's your adding your opinion to them rather than just accepting the information. Get over yourself. Nationalism may be a good thing but often can turn into a major World War at least twice.

I did not add an opinion. And what about nationalism? You mean German nationalism, in fact. In modern history, there is only black and white and Germany bears the sole responsibility for the world wars. German achievements made during the 12 years of the Third Reich prove what Germany is capable of when there is no one oppressing the country. Of course, the race craze was not acceptable but do you think, Germany was the only one oppressing the opposition? But the Third Reich is not an exception. Since the country was truly united, the economic results were incredible:
List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia

We can compare the developments in the USA with Germany. Germany was very late to become a truly integrative country, way behind the USA. This comes along with a higher degree of patriotism, absolutely normal. Second, the political conditions prior to the Third Reich were a hotbed for nationalism and socialism.

You think, the USA is an exception and superior to other countries, because you are nationalist. But all the great and respected achievements made in the USA should not blind your view for the other countries´s achievements.

"Few countries have contributed so much to science and technology as Germany. For most of the 20th century, Germany had more Nobel Prizes in the sciences than any other nation, and today the raw output of German scientific research consistently ranks among the world's best."
Germany, a world leader in technology, engineering and innovation

I believe this conversation has entered a very unhealthy turn that has nothing to do with the original idea. So I will just bow out.

 

[Bleipriester]

"The Focke Achgelis Fa 61 was the first fully controllable helicopter. It first flew in 1936. It is more properly known as the Fa 61 as it was a research aircraft of the Focke Achgelis company."

"1938, May 19 : Comes carried out to Washington the first flight mails with an autogyro. The regular service, carried out with a Kellet KD-1 of the Eastern Airlines, began July 6th, but then it was abandoned for practical reasons."

"1939 : Igor Sikorsky (USA) The VS 300 was the first useful single-rotor helicopter. A design refined enough to be converted in the R-4 years later and put into production."

"Nazi Germany is the first to use helicopters in combat. Fa223, Fl265 y Fl282 were used for rescue, artillery spotting and convoys submarine protection.

Most Advanced WWII Helicopter"

Focke Achgelis Fa 61 Prototype helicopter
Helicopters 1930/1945

Try again.

I do like i when your kind tries to rewrite history. The FA-61 was only a prototype with only 2 built. It was NEVER operational and it was less than practical. It's just a prototype that led to the ones that did go into service. The VS300 was in service not long after it was produced. And it was used as a combat observation in 1939. IT is listed as the first Operational and the first practical Helicopter. In order to make this list, you need to own both titles. Although the VS-300 is listed as an experimental, it was in production, more than a few were made and it was in service in the Royal Air Service. Can you guess what battle it was observing or spotting for? Remember what happened with the Brits in 1939?

It's hard to say whom was first. But it wasn't either the US nor Germany by a long shot. I would venture a guess it was the French. Of course, the first successful (1 built) was by the Dutch. Does this mean anything? patent number 265,272. Are you counting that because Germany overran his country and that made it a German Idea?

If you compare more than a few manufactured and those that went into service, there are only two that comes to mind. The FI-282 and the RD-4. The FI just poked holes in the sky. It really wasn't that useful in 1942. But the RD-4 had a useful cargo rating. It was used for Rescue, Cargo and Observation. Without it, the Burma China Campaign may not have been successful. It had the performance to go over the hump so it was used to ferry people (as an ambulance) and parts. Like I said, the FI was a toy in comparison. It's like calling a one seater sports car a truck. And it was in service in 1942.

If you are going to include Prototypes, the nod still goes to the Dutch or the French who both were done in the 20s and successfully flown. They weren't really practical but this led to others being successful.

The other two you mention are Gyrocopters. Sorry, but that goes to Davinci who first put it to paper. But the first successful one goes to a Spaniard in 1923. While it never saw any war, it was in production by 1925 and used in France, England and the US.

Try again Herr.

You see the sources, denial is useless.

And you need to stop reading in to see what you wanted to see in the first place. There is nothing wrong with your cites. It's your adding your opinion to them rather than just accepting the information. Get over yourself. Nationalism may be a good thing but often can turn into a major World War at least twice.

I did not add an opinion. And what about nationalism? You mean German nationalism, in fact. In modern history, there is only black and white and Germany bears the sole responsibility for the world wars. German achievements made during the 12 years of the Third Reich prove what Germany is capable of when there is no one oppressing the country. Of course, the race craze was not acceptable but do you think, Germany was the only one oppressing the opposition? But the Third Reich is not an exception. Since the country was truly united, the economic results were incredible:
List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia

We can compare the developments in the USA with Germany. Germany was very late to become a truly integrative country, way behind the USA. This comes along with a higher degree of patriotism, absolutely normal. Second, the political conditions prior to the Third Reich were a hotbed for nationalism and socialism.

You think, the USA is an exception and superior to other countries, because you are nationalist. But all the great and respected achievements made in the USA should not blind your view for the other countries´s achievements.

"Few countries have contributed so much to science and technology as Germany. For most of the 20th century, Germany had more Nobel Prizes in the sciences than any other nation, and today the raw output of German scientific research consistently ranks among the world's best."
Germany, a world leader in technology, engineering and innovation

I believe this conversation has entered a very unhealthy turn that has nothing to do with the original idea. So I will just bow out.

Then let´s have fun doing the theory. In the first quarter of 1945, 757 Me 262 were produced. This would be 3000 Me 262 in 1945. Our scenario describes a more powerful Germany, so let it be 5-6000 in 45, 10-15000 in 46.
We could also add the fighters of the Emergency Fighter Program - Wikipedia but since we assume that Germany was not close to defeat, I propose to assume that the Me 262 and the Arado 234 would have been improved instead, for example with the BMW 018 jet engine.
Various modern weapons like guided cruise missiles would have entered mass production. Enemy airfields would have been destroyed by precise cruise missiles. The Luftwaffe would have regained air superiority over Europe. Allied reinforcements would have been sunken by the Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine and the frontiers in France and Italy would have collapsed. The soldiers would have surrendered and the western allies would have accepted Germany´s peace offer.

It was close in the east but our scenario assumes that Germany had more resources, anyway.

About the Russian tank production and reserve:
The tank production have been increased to about 2.300 tanks monthly, therefrom 1.300 T 34/85, 250 heavy tanks, 200 medium tanks and 550 light assault guns. To that are coming to Russia monthly 175 to 200 American tanks, mostly Shermans.
The casualties in 1945 (Jan & Feb) were valved at 8.500, thereof 4.600 in February. Before the offensive the stock of tanks was valved at 11.000, at the 02.28.1945 at 8.500. For compensation, 7.300 tanks were available apparently (Production and influx from 1 ½ months and a store of 3.500). The store was not expendet evidently, rather to imbibe at 1.200 (8.500 less 7.300). According to that the stock of tanks of the tank forces is sagged by ¾ , the stock of the reserve to 1/3. If the Russian casualties do not sag, the reserve of production and influx would have to be spent at the end of march. The number of available Russian tanks will plummet then.

The depleted Red Army would have been beaten back and the new German weapons come into weight. Even without the western allies joining the war on Germany´s side, the likelihood for the SU to defeat Germany would have been zero. A peace similar to 1917 would have been the result. Germany would dominate Europe and leave alone the British Empire, of which Hitler was a big admirer. According to Hitler, the Empire brought civilization to the world.

You´ll admit your scenario is even more unhealthy for you.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I do like i when your kind tries to rewrite history. The FA-61 was only a prototype with only 2 built. It was NEVER operational and it was less than practical. It's just a prototype that led to the ones that did go into service. The VS300 was in service not long after it was produced. And it was used as a combat observation in 1939. IT is listed as the first Operational and the first practical Helicopter. In order to make this list, you need to own both titles. Although the VS-300 is listed as an experimental, it was in production, more than a few were made and it was in service in the Royal Air Service. Can you guess what battle it was observing or spotting for? Remember what happened with the Brits in 1939?

It's hard to say whom was first. But it wasn't either the US nor Germany by a long shot. I would venture a guess it was the French. Of course, the first successful (1 built) was by the Dutch. Does this mean anything? patent number 265,272. Are you counting that because Germany overran his country and that made it a German Idea?

If you compare more than a few manufactured and those that went into service, there are only two that comes to mind. The FI-282 and the RD-4. The FI just poked holes in the sky. It really wasn't that useful in 1942. But the RD-4 had a useful cargo rating. It was used for Rescue, Cargo and Observation. Without it, the Burma China Campaign may not have been successful. It had the performance to go over the hump so it was used to ferry people (as an ambulance) and parts. Like I said, the FI was a toy in comparison. It's like calling a one seater sports car a truck. And it was in service in 1942.

If you are going to include Prototypes, the nod still goes to the Dutch or the French who both were done in the 20s and successfully flown. They weren't really practical but this led to others being successful.

The other two you mention are Gyrocopters. Sorry, but that goes to Davinci who first put it to paper. But the first successful one goes to a Spaniard in 1923. While it never saw any war, it was in production by 1925 and used in France, England and the US.

Try again Herr.

You see the sources, denial is useless.

And you need to stop reading in to see what you wanted to see in the first place. There is nothing wrong with your cites. It's your adding your opinion to them rather than just accepting the information. Get over yourself. Nationalism may be a good thing but often can turn into a major World War at least twice.

I did not add an opinion. And what about nationalism? You mean German nationalism, in fact. In modern history, there is only black and white and Germany bears the sole responsibility for the world wars. German achievements made during the 12 years of the Third Reich prove what Germany is capable of when there is no one oppressing the country. Of course, the race craze was not acceptable but do you think, Germany was the only one oppressing the opposition? But the Third Reich is not an exception. Since the country was truly united, the economic results were incredible:
List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia

We can compare the developments in the USA with Germany. Germany was very late to become a truly integrative country, way behind the USA. This comes along with a higher degree of patriotism, absolutely normal. Second, the political conditions prior to the Third Reich were a hotbed for nationalism and socialism.

You think, the USA is an exception and superior to other countries, because you are nationalist. But all the great and respected achievements made in the USA should not blind your view for the other countries´s achievements.

"Few countries have contributed so much to science and technology as Germany. For most of the 20th century, Germany had more Nobel Prizes in the sciences than any other nation, and today the raw output of German scientific research consistently ranks among the world's best."
Germany, a world leader in technology, engineering and innovation

I believe this conversation has entered a very unhealthy turn that has nothing to do with the original idea. So I will just bow out.

Then let´s have fun doing the theory. In the first quarter of 1945, 757 Me 262 were produced. This would be 3000 Me 262 in 1945. Our scenario describes a more powerful Germany, so let it be 5-6000 in 45, 10-15000 in 46.
We could also add the fighters of the Emergency Fighter Program - Wikipedia but since we assume that Germany was not close to defeat, I propose to assume that the Me 262 and the Arado 234 would have been improved instead, for example with the BMW 018 jet engine.
Various modern weapons like guided cruise missiles would have entered mass production. Enemy airfields would have been destroyed by precise cruise missiles. The Luftwaffe would have regained air superiority over Europe. Allied reinforcements would have been sunken by the Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine and the frontiers in France and Italy would have collapsed. The soldiers would have surrendered and the western allies would have accepted Germany´s peace offer.

It was close in the east but our scenario assumes that Germany had more resources, anyway.

About the Russian tank production and reserve:
The tank production have been increased to about 2.300 tanks monthly, therefrom 1.300 T 34/85, 250 heavy tanks, 200 medium tanks and 550 light assault guns. To that are coming to Russia monthly 175 to 200 American tanks, mostly Shermans.
The casualties in 1945 (Jan & Feb) were valved at 8.500, thereof 4.600 in February. Before the offensive the stock of tanks was valved at 11.000, at the 02.28.1945 at 8.500. For compensation, 7.300 tanks were available apparently (Production and influx from 1 ½ months and a store of 3.500). The store was not expendet evidently, rather to imbibe at 1.200 (8.500 less 7.300). According to that the stock of tanks of the tank forces is sagged by ¾ , the stock of the reserve to 1/3. If the Russian casualties do not sag, the reserve of production and influx would have to be spent at the end of march. The number of available Russian tanks will plummet then.

The depleted Red Army would have been beaten back and the new German weapons come into weight. Even without the western allies joining the war on Germany´s side, the likelihood for the SU to defeat Germany would have been zero. A peace similar to 1917 would have been the result. Germany would dominate Europe and leave alone the British Empire, of which Hitler was a big admirer. According to Hitler, the Empire brought civilization to the world.

You´ll admit your scenario is even more unhealthy for you.

No, this is what was wanted. It's healthy for many reasons.

Let's look at something. It's all around resources. Personnel, manufacturing, natural resources and Time. What German did was run out of Natural Resources and Time. In order to prolong (time) the war another year, Germany would have need more natural resources. As in the more exotic types like Titanium. Had they had a local or available supply of that they would have been able to produce some pretty nasty things.

Okay, where and how would Germany have gained access to the natural resources it needed?

 

[Bleipriester]

You see the sources, denial is useless.

And you need to stop reading in to see what you wanted to see in the first place. There is nothing wrong with your cites. It's your adding your opinion to them rather than just accepting the information. Get over yourself. Nationalism may be a good thing but often can turn into a major World War at least twice.

I did not add an opinion. And what about nationalism? You mean German nationalism, in fact. In modern history, there is only black and white and Germany bears the sole responsibility for the world wars. German achievements made during the 12 years of the Third Reich prove what Germany is capable of when there is no one oppressing the country. Of course, the race craze was not acceptable but do you think, Germany was the only one oppressing the opposition? But the Third Reich is not an exception. Since the country was truly united, the economic results were incredible:
List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia

We can compare the developments in the USA with Germany. Germany was very late to become a truly integrative country, way behind the USA. This comes along with a higher degree of patriotism, absolutely normal. Second, the political conditions prior to the Third Reich were a hotbed for nationalism and socialism.

You think, the USA is an exception and superior to other countries, because you are nationalist. But all the great and respected achievements made in the USA should not blind your view for the other countries´s achievements.

"Few countries have contributed so much to science and technology as Germany. For most of the 20th century, Germany had more Nobel Prizes in the sciences than any other nation, and today the raw output of German scientific research consistently ranks among the world's best."
Germany, a world leader in technology, engineering and innovation

I believe this conversation has entered a very unhealthy turn that has nothing to do with the original idea. So I will just bow out.

Then let´s have fun doing the theory. In the first quarter of 1945, 757 Me 262 were produced. This would be 3000 Me 262 in 1945. Our scenario describes a more powerful Germany, so let it be 5-6000 in 45, 10-15000 in 46.
We could also add the fighters of the Emergency Fighter Program - Wikipedia but since we assume that Germany was not close to defeat, I propose to assume that the Me 262 and the Arado 234 would have been improved instead, for example with the BMW 018 jet engine.
Various modern weapons like guided cruise missiles would have entered mass production. Enemy airfields would have been destroyed by precise cruise missiles. The Luftwaffe would have regained air superiority over Europe. Allied reinforcements would have been sunken by the Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine and the frontiers in France and Italy would have collapsed. The soldiers would have surrendered and the western allies would have accepted Germany´s peace offer.

It was close in the east but our scenario assumes that Germany had more resources, anyway.

About the Russian tank production and reserve:
The tank production have been increased to about 2.300 tanks monthly, therefrom 1.300 T 34/85, 250 heavy tanks, 200 medium tanks and 550 light assault guns. To that are coming to Russia monthly 175 to 200 American tanks, mostly Shermans.
The casualties in 1945 (Jan & Feb) were valved at 8.500, thereof 4.600 in February. Before the offensive the stock of tanks was valved at 11.000, at the 02.28.1945 at 8.500. For compensation, 7.300 tanks were available apparently (Production and influx from 1 ½ months and a store of 3.500). The store was not expendet evidently, rather to imbibe at 1.200 (8.500 less 7.300). According to that the stock of tanks of the tank forces is sagged by ¾ , the stock of the reserve to 1/3. If the Russian casualties do not sag, the reserve of production and influx would have to be spent at the end of march. The number of available Russian tanks will plummet then.

The depleted Red Army would have been beaten back and the new German weapons come into weight. Even without the western allies joining the war on Germany´s side, the likelihood for the SU to defeat Germany would have been zero. A peace similar to 1917 would have been the result. Germany would dominate Europe and leave alone the British Empire, of which Hitler was a big admirer. According to Hitler, the Empire brought civilization to the world.

You´ll admit your scenario is even more unhealthy for you.

No, this is what was wanted. It's healthy for many reasons.

Let's look at something. It's all around resources. Personnel, manufacturing, natural resources and Time. What German did was run out of Natural Resources and Time. In order to prolong (time) the war another year, Germany would have need more natural resources. As in the more exotic types like Titanium. Had they had a local or available supply of that they would have been able to produce some pretty nasty things.

Okay, where and how would Germany have gained access to the natural resources it needed?

It´s your scenario. German production in 1944 exceeded all prior war years combined and even in March 1945 for example, 1400 tanks were made (note that a Tiger took ten months). The most serious lack was plane fuel, followed by regular fuel, coal and munitions. Munitions were not the major problem, even when the situation was tough. The defense requires less munition then the attack and the Germans were mostly in the defense. You also cannot make a factory and it will put out planes. You get parts from all across the country and somewhere they will be assembled. One factory loss can halt the entire production of one or more models. Luckily for Germans, many important factories were underground. However, your Luft46 setup simply requires a scenario in which Germany didn´t lack all the resources. So you deal with it. As for resources, a few missiles could have halted the entire bombing campaign of the US and the British Empire. Guided V2 were already available and apparently the thousands of V2 that were made were abused for retaliation purposes rather than for military. The leadership made a lot of mistakes, without those mistakes, a totally different outcome of the war would have been the result.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And you need to stop reading in to see what you wanted to see in the first place. There is nothing wrong with your cites. It's your adding your opinion to them rather than just accepting the information. Get over yourself. Nationalism may be a good thing but often can turn into a major World War at least twice.

I did not add an opinion. And what about nationalism? You mean German nationalism, in fact. In modern history, there is only black and white and Germany bears the sole responsibility for the world wars. German achievements made during the 12 years of the Third Reich prove what Germany is capable of when there is no one oppressing the country. Of course, the race craze was not acceptable but do you think, Germany was the only one oppressing the opposition? But the Third Reich is not an exception. Since the country was truly united, the economic results were incredible:
List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia

We can compare the developments in the USA with Germany. Germany was very late to become a truly integrative country, way behind the USA. This comes along with a higher degree of patriotism, absolutely normal. Second, the political conditions prior to the Third Reich were a hotbed for nationalism and socialism.

You think, the USA is an exception and superior to other countries, because you are nationalist. But all the great and respected achievements made in the USA should not blind your view for the other countries´s achievements.

"Few countries have contributed so much to science and technology as Germany. For most of the 20th century, Germany had more Nobel Prizes in the sciences than any other nation, and today the raw output of German scientific research consistently ranks among the world's best."
Germany, a world leader in technology, engineering and innovation

I believe this conversation has entered a very unhealthy turn that has nothing to do with the original idea. So I will just bow out.

Then let´s have fun doing the theory. In the first quarter of 1945, 757 Me 262 were produced. This would be 3000 Me 262 in 1945. Our scenario describes a more powerful Germany, so let it be 5-6000 in 45, 10-15000 in 46.
We could also add the fighters of the Emergency Fighter Program - Wikipedia but since we assume that Germany was not close to defeat, I propose to assume that the Me 262 and the Arado 234 would have been improved instead, for example with the BMW 018 jet engine.
Various modern weapons like guided cruise missiles would have entered mass production. Enemy airfields would have been destroyed by precise cruise missiles. The Luftwaffe would have regained air superiority over Europe. Allied reinforcements would have been sunken by the Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine and the frontiers in France and Italy would have collapsed. The soldiers would have surrendered and the western allies would have accepted Germany´s peace offer.

It was close in the east but our scenario assumes that Germany had more resources, anyway.

About the Russian tank production and reserve:
The tank production have been increased to about 2.300 tanks monthly, therefrom 1.300 T 34/85, 250 heavy tanks, 200 medium tanks and 550 light assault guns. To that are coming to Russia monthly 175 to 200 American tanks, mostly Shermans.
The casualties in 1945 (Jan & Feb) were valved at 8.500, thereof 4.600 in February. Before the offensive the stock of tanks was valved at 11.000, at the 02.28.1945 at 8.500. For compensation, 7.300 tanks were available apparently (Production and influx from 1 ½ months and a store of 3.500). The store was not expendet evidently, rather to imbibe at 1.200 (8.500 less 7.300). According to that the stock of tanks of the tank forces is sagged by ¾ , the stock of the reserve to 1/3. If the Russian casualties do not sag, the reserve of production and influx would have to be spent at the end of march. The number of available Russian tanks will plummet then.

The depleted Red Army would have been beaten back and the new German weapons come into weight. Even without the western allies joining the war on Germany´s side, the likelihood for the SU to defeat Germany would have been zero. A peace similar to 1917 would have been the result. Germany would dominate Europe and leave alone the British Empire, of which Hitler was a big admirer. According to Hitler, the Empire brought civilization to the world.

You´ll admit your scenario is even more unhealthy for you.

No, this is what was wanted. It's healthy for many reasons.

Let's look at something. It's all around resources. Personnel, manufacturing, natural resources and Time. What German did was run out of Natural Resources and Time. In order to prolong (time) the war another year, Germany would have need more natural resources. As in the more exotic types like Titanium. Had they had a local or available supply of that they would have been able to produce some pretty nasty things.

Okay, where and how would Germany have gained access to the natural resources it needed?

It´s your scenario. German production in 1944 exceeded all prior war years combined and even in March 1945 for example, 1400 tanks were made (note that a Tiger took ten months). The most serious lack was plane fuel, followed by regular fuel, coal and munitions. Munitions were not the major problem, even when the situation was tough. The defense requires less munition then the attack and the Germans were mostly in the defense. You also cannot make a factory and it will put out planes. You get parts from all across the country and somewhere they will be assembled. One factory loss can halt the entire production of one or more models. Luckily for Germans, many important factories were underground. However, your Luft46 setup simply requires a scenario in which Germany didn´t lack all the resources. So you deal with it. As for resources, a few missiles could have halted the entire bombing campaign of the US and the British Empire. Guided V2 were already available and apparently the thousands of V2 that were made were abused for retaliation purposes rather than for military. The leadership made a lot of mistakes, without those mistakes, a totally different outcome of the war would have been the result.

Not any of this means a thing unless some real changes were to happen.

1. Change in Leadership. That was tried a few times. I don't believe the Allies wanted Hitler replaced. He had way too many whims and it was always in the Allies favor. One more year would not have changed this.

2. Putting butts in the seats. It got so bad that the Germans were putting Cargo Plane Pilots into Fighters with little or no training. You can have a sky full of fighters but the attrition would have been even worse in the next year.

3. The V-2 was supposed to be a Terror Weapon. It ended up being a nucionse weapon at best. It just wasn't accurate enough to hit a smaller target than a small City. It took the US to make anything that accurate and then it wasn't until the 50s.

4, So you have 1400 262s in the air. Remember, the P-80A went into full production in June of 45. And the P-80A was at least as capable as the 262 and much more dependable. One was swept wing and the other was the new Ducted leading edge wing. In today's fighter, you will find both still being used and sometimes a combination of both. You can make 4 a month. Meanwhile, the US ramps up to over 100 a month and it continues to grow. And has the training birds to go with it, isn't having to dodge fighters and bombers while training. There are only 4 countries that can't be invaded. The US, Russia, China and Switzerland. Think about why this is so. The only reason that the Germans were so successful in Italy was the 234 flights. That is until the P-80s made the scene. The P-80 never did see the 234s but that sure did curtail those over flights. Until then, the 234 over flights meant that the Germans were aware of ALL movements by the Allies and could adjust accordingly.

You have yet to address the natural resources like Titanium, Tungsten, Oil, people and others. Where and how are they going to get it. This is the biggie that you have to address.

 

[Bleipriester]

I did not add an opinion. And what about nationalism? You mean German nationalism, in fact. In modern history, there is only black and white and Germany bears the sole responsibility for the world wars. German achievements made during the 12 years of the Third Reich prove what Germany is capable of when there is no one oppressing the country. Of course, the race craze was not acceptable but do you think, Germany was the only one oppressing the opposition? But the Third Reich is not an exception. Since the country was truly united, the economic results were incredible:
List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia

We can compare the developments in the USA with Germany. Germany was very late to become a truly integrative country, way behind the USA. This comes along with a higher degree of patriotism, absolutely normal. Second, the political conditions prior to the Third Reich were a hotbed for nationalism and socialism.

You think, the USA is an exception and superior to other countries, because you are nationalist. But all the great and respected achievements made in the USA should not blind your view for the other countries´s achievements.

"Few countries have contributed so much to science and technology as Germany. For most of the 20th century, Germany had more Nobel Prizes in the sciences than any other nation, and today the raw output of German scientific research consistently ranks among the world's best."
Germany, a world leader in technology, engineering and innovation

I believe this conversation has entered a very unhealthy turn that has nothing to do with the original idea. So I will just bow out.

Then let´s have fun doing the theory. In the first quarter of 1945, 757 Me 262 were produced. This would be 3000 Me 262 in 1945. Our scenario describes a more powerful Germany, so let it be 5-6000 in 45, 10-15000 in 46.
We could also add the fighters of the Emergency Fighter Program - Wikipedia but since we assume that Germany was not close to defeat, I propose to assume that the Me 262 and the Arado 234 would have been improved instead, for example with the BMW 018 jet engine.
Various modern weapons like guided cruise missiles would have entered mass production. Enemy airfields would have been destroyed by precise cruise missiles. The Luftwaffe would have regained air superiority over Europe. Allied reinforcements would have been sunken by the Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine and the frontiers in France and Italy would have collapsed. The soldiers would have surrendered and the western allies would have accepted Germany´s peace offer.

It was close in the east but our scenario assumes that Germany had more resources, anyway.

About the Russian tank production and reserve:
The tank production have been increased to about 2.300 tanks monthly, therefrom 1.300 T 34/85, 250 heavy tanks, 200 medium tanks and 550 light assault guns. To that are coming to Russia monthly 175 to 200 American tanks, mostly Shermans.
The casualties in 1945 (Jan & Feb) were valved at 8.500, thereof 4.600 in February. Before the offensive the stock of tanks was valved at 11.000, at the 02.28.1945 at 8.500. For compensation, 7.300 tanks were available apparently (Production and influx from 1 ½ months and a store of 3.500). The store was not expendet evidently, rather to imbibe at 1.200 (8.500 less 7.300). According to that the stock of tanks of the tank forces is sagged by ¾ , the stock of the reserve to 1/3. If the Russian casualties do not sag, the reserve of production and influx would have to be spent at the end of march. The number of available Russian tanks will plummet then.

The depleted Red Army would have been beaten back and the new German weapons come into weight. Even without the western allies joining the war on Germany´s side, the likelihood for the SU to defeat Germany would have been zero. A peace similar to 1917 would have been the result. Germany would dominate Europe and leave alone the British Empire, of which Hitler was a big admirer. According to Hitler, the Empire brought civilization to the world.

You´ll admit your scenario is even more unhealthy for you.

No, this is what was wanted. It's healthy for many reasons.

Let's look at something. It's all around resources. Personnel, manufacturing, natural resources and Time. What German did was run out of Natural Resources and Time. In order to prolong (time) the war another year, Germany would have need more natural resources. As in the more exotic types like Titanium. Had they had a local or available supply of that they would have been able to produce some pretty nasty things.

Okay, where and how would Germany have gained access to the natural resources it needed?

It´s your scenario. German production in 1944 exceeded all prior war years combined and even in March 1945 for example, 1400 tanks were made (note that a Tiger took ten months). The most serious lack was plane fuel, followed by regular fuel, coal and munitions. Munitions were not the major problem, even when the situation was tough. The defense requires less munition then the attack and the Germans were mostly in the defense. You also cannot make a factory and it will put out planes. You get parts from all across the country and somewhere they will be assembled. One factory loss can halt the entire production of one or more models. Luckily for Germans, many important factories were underground. However, your Luft46 setup simply requires a scenario in which Germany didn´t lack all the resources. So you deal with it. As for resources, a few missiles could have halted the entire bombing campaign of the US and the British Empire. Guided V2 were already available and apparently the thousands of V2 that were made were abused for retaliation purposes rather than for military. The leadership made a lot of mistakes, without those mistakes, a totally different outcome of the war would have been the result.

Not any of this means a thing unless some real changes were to happen.

1. Change in Leadership. That was tried a few times. I don't believe the Allies wanted Hitler replaced. He had way too many whims and it was always in the Allies favor. One more year would not have changed this.

2. Putting butts in the seats. It got so bad that the Germans were putting Cargo Plane Pilots into Fighters with little or no training. You can have a sky full of fighters but the attrition would have been even worse in the next year.

3. The V-2 was supposed to be a Terror Weapon. It ended up being a nucionse weapon at best. It just wasn't accurate enough to hit a smaller target than a small City. It took the US to make anything that accurate and then it wasn't until the 50s.

4, So you have 1400 262s in the air. Remember, the P-80A went into full production in June of 45. And the P-80A was at least as capable as the 262 and much more dependable. One was swept wing and the other was the new Ducted leading edge wing. In today's fighter, you will find both still being used and sometimes a combination of both. You can make 4 a month. Meanwhile, the US ramps up to over 100 a month and it continues to grow. And has the training birds to go with it, isn't having to dodge fighters and bombers while training. There are only 4 countries that can't be invaded. The US, Russia, China and Switzerland. Think about why this is so. The only reason that the Germans were so successful in Italy was the 234 flights. That is until the P-80s made the scene. The P-80 never did see the 234s but that sure did curtail those over flights. Until then, the 234 over flights meant that the Germans were aware of ALL movements by the Allies and could adjust accordingly.

You have yet to address the natural resources like Titanium, Tungsten, Oil, people and others. Where and how are they going to get it. This is the biggie that you have to address.

1. Hitler had less control then we assume today. There were many machinations and Hitler was fed with false intel and drugs all day long. The Russians were aware of German plans within hours and Hitler´s whims were even a good thing because they made the reality different from what the Russians learned. Treason was a mass phenomena within the higher ranks and I don´t even mean Stauffenberg here.

2. The same would apply for the allies, then. You know my thread about the flying aces and thus you understand that this was not the case but propaganda. Sure, everything was short, also pilots in 44/45 but not that short that they would have wasted all the untrained pilots and planes and they would not have done it because there is simply no sense in doing so. There was a small program, the Rammjäger, volunteers tried to hit bombers with their planes, trying to get out in the last moment but it was stupid and driven by the terrors these bombers brought and the desperation of not having the power to stop the bombings. But again, our scenario does not assume a grave situation.

3. The V2 was the first actual cruise missile. You won´t compare a double decker with a F-22 and the V2 was very developed for a first specimen of its kind. It traveled with up to 3580 mph. This is the fire control system of the radio controlled variant of the V2:

A mass production of radio controlled V2 would have had significant impact on the outcome of the war, the more so as there was also a submarine program that probably would have brought the V2 to America and all places of Britain in our scenario.

4. There were never 1400 Me 262. 1433 were made but most were destroyed on the ground while waiting for being transformed into Hitler´s Blitzbomber.
The allies also leaned the Me 262 was slow while starting and attacked it while starting and landing. You see, the situation was so grave that the Me 262 could not unfold its potential. It was a great plane with great flight characteristics. However, when it marked a new era of aircraft, it didn´t change the way air battles were fought.
The production of the first guided air to air missile began in Germany in 1945. 1000 were made but never delivered and they were not intended to be used by single seat fighters because there were problems with controlling the plane and the missile during tests. We can assume that this problems would have been solved and the missiles were carried by Me 262 (initially a favored model for the missile) in 1946. We also can assume a successful deployment against bombers and probably also fighters. Some Me 262 were also equipped with radar already. So we can assume that Germany would have changed the way of air battles in 1946 seriously, smashing all opponents with superior technology. The trainer variant of the Me 262 was the Me 262 B-1a.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I believe this conversation has entered a very unhealthy turn that has nothing to do with the original idea. So I will just bow out.

Then let´s have fun doing the theory. In the first quarter of 1945, 757 Me 262 were produced. This would be 3000 Me 262 in 1945. Our scenario describes a more powerful Germany, so let it be 5-6000 in 45, 10-15000 in 46.
We could also add the fighters of the Emergency Fighter Program - Wikipedia but since we assume that Germany was not close to defeat, I propose to assume that the Me 262 and the Arado 234 would have been improved instead, for example with the BMW 018 jet engine.
Various modern weapons like guided cruise missiles would have entered mass production. Enemy airfields would have been destroyed by precise cruise missiles. The Luftwaffe would have regained air superiority over Europe. Allied reinforcements would have been sunken by the Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine and the frontiers in France and Italy would have collapsed. The soldiers would have surrendered and the western allies would have accepted Germany´s peace offer.

It was close in the east but our scenario assumes that Germany had more resources, anyway.

About the Russian tank production and reserve:
The tank production have been increased to about 2.300 tanks monthly, therefrom 1.300 T 34/85, 250 heavy tanks, 200 medium tanks and 550 light assault guns. To that are coming to Russia monthly 175 to 200 American tanks, mostly Shermans.
The casualties in 1945 (Jan & Feb) were valved at 8.500, thereof 4.600 in February. Before the offensive the stock of tanks was valved at 11.000, at the 02.28.1945 at 8.500. For compensation, 7.300 tanks were available apparently (Production and influx from 1 ½ months and a store of 3.500). The store was not expendet evidently, rather to imbibe at 1.200 (8.500 less 7.300). According to that the stock of tanks of the tank forces is sagged by ¾ , the stock of the reserve to 1/3. If the Russian casualties do not sag, the reserve of production and influx would have to be spent at the end of march. The number of available Russian tanks will plummet then.

The depleted Red Army would have been beaten back and the new German weapons come into weight. Even without the western allies joining the war on Germany´s side, the likelihood for the SU to defeat Germany would have been zero. A peace similar to 1917 would have been the result. Germany would dominate Europe and leave alone the British Empire, of which Hitler was a big admirer. According to Hitler, the Empire brought civilization to the world.

You´ll admit your scenario is even more unhealthy for you.

No, this is what was wanted. It's healthy for many reasons.

Let's look at something. It's all around resources. Personnel, manufacturing, natural resources and Time. What German did was run out of Natural Resources and Time. In order to prolong (time) the war another year, Germany would have need more natural resources. As in the more exotic types like Titanium. Had they had a local or available supply of that they would have been able to produce some pretty nasty things.

Okay, where and how would Germany have gained access to the natural resources it needed?

It´s your scenario. German production in 1944 exceeded all prior war years combined and even in March 1945 for example, 1400 tanks were made (note that a Tiger took ten months). The most serious lack was plane fuel, followed by regular fuel, coal and munitions. Munitions were not the major problem, even when the situation was tough. The defense requires less munition then the attack and the Germans were mostly in the defense. You also cannot make a factory and it will put out planes. You get parts from all across the country and somewhere they will be assembled. One factory loss can halt the entire production of one or more models. Luckily for Germans, many important factories were underground. However, your Luft46 setup simply requires a scenario in which Germany didn´t lack all the resources. So you deal with it. As for resources, a few missiles could have halted the entire bombing campaign of the US and the British Empire. Guided V2 were already available and apparently the thousands of V2 that were made were abused for retaliation purposes rather than for military. The leadership made a lot of mistakes, without those mistakes, a totally different outcome of the war would have been the result.

Not any of this means a thing unless some real changes were to happen.

1. Change in Leadership. That was tried a few times. I don't believe the Allies wanted Hitler replaced. He had way too many whims and it was always in the Allies favor. One more year would not have changed this.

2. Putting butts in the seats. It got so bad that the Germans were putting Cargo Plane Pilots into Fighters with little or no training. You can have a sky full of fighters but the attrition would have been even worse in the next year.

3. The V-2 was supposed to be a Terror Weapon. It ended up being a nucionse weapon at best. It just wasn't accurate enough to hit a smaller target than a small City. It took the US to make anything that accurate and then it wasn't until the 50s.

4, So you have 1400 262s in the air. Remember, the P-80A went into full production in June of 45. And the P-80A was at least as capable as the 262 and much more dependable. One was swept wing and the other was the new Ducted leading edge wing. In today's fighter, you will find both still being used and sometimes a combination of both. You can make 4 a month. Meanwhile, the US ramps up to over 100 a month and it continues to grow. And has the training birds to go with it, isn't having to dodge fighters and bombers while training. There are only 4 countries that can't be invaded. The US, Russia, China and Switzerland. Think about why this is so. The only reason that the Germans were so successful in Italy was the 234 flights. That is until the P-80s made the scene. The P-80 never did see the 234s but that sure did curtail those over flights. Until then, the 234 over flights meant that the Germans were aware of ALL movements by the Allies and could adjust accordingly.

You have yet to address the natural resources like Titanium, Tungsten, Oil, people and others. Where and how are they going to get it. This is the biggie that you have to address.

1. Hitler had less control then we assume today. There were many machinations and Hitler was fed with false intel and drugs all day long. The Russians were aware of German plans within hours and Hitler´s whims were even a good thing because they made the reality different from what the Russians learned. Treason was a mass phenomena within the higher ranks and I don´t even mean Stauffenberg here.

2. The same would apply for the allies, then. You know my thread about the flying aces and thus you understand that this was not the case but propaganda. Sure, everything was short, also pilots in 44/45 but not that short that they would have wasted all the untrained pilots and planes and they would not have done it because there is simply no sense in doing so. There was a small program, the Rammjäger, volunteers tried to hit bombers with their planes, trying to get out in the last moment but it was stupid and driven by the terrors these bombers brought and the desperation of not having the power to stop the bombings. But again, our scenario does not assume a grave situation.

3. The V2 was the first actual cruise missile. You won´t compare a double decker with a F-22 and the V2 was very developed for a first specimen of its kind. It traveled with up to 3580 mph. This is the fire control system of the radio controlled variant of the V2:

A mass production of radio controlled V2 would have had significant impact on the outcome of the war, the more so as there was also a submarine program that probably would have brought the V2 to America and all places of Britain in our scenario.

4. There were never 1400 Me 262. 1433 were made but most were destroyed on the ground while waiting for being transformed into Hitler´s Blitzbomber.
The allies also leaned the Me 262 was slow while starting and attacked it while starting and landing. You see, the situation was so grave that the Me 262 could not unfold its potential. It was a great plane with great flight characteristics. However, when it marked a new era of aircraft, it didn´t change the way air battles were fought.
The production of the first guided air to air missile began in Germany in 1945. 1000 were made but never delivered and they were not intended to be used by single seat fighters because there were problems with controlling the plane and the missile during tests. We can assume that this problems would have been solved and the missiles were carried by Me 262 (initially a favored model for the missile) in 1946. We also can assume a successful deployment against bombers and probably also fighters. Some Me 262 were also equipped with radar already. So we can assume that Germany would have changed the way of air battles in 1946 seriously, smashing all opponents with superior technology. The trainer variant of the Me 262 was the Me 262 B-1a.

First of all, the V-2 was a Ballistic Missile and not a cruise missile. The Cruise Missile title goes to the V-1. The Radio Controls for accuracy were still years beyond grasp. The Sub V-2 program was abandoned due to the V-2 being so easy to screw up. The chances of them actually launching was almost zero. Pick something that actually would have caused the war to go that extra year. And it ain't the V programs.

The ONLY thing weak about the 262 was the lack of Tungsten and Titanium. Unless you address the lack of natural resources, the war would have ended exactly the same day and exactly the same way.

 

[Bleipriester]

Then let´s have fun doing the theory. In the first quarter of 1945, 757 Me 262 were produced. This would be 3000 Me 262 in 1945. Our scenario describes a more powerful Germany, so let it be 5-6000 in 45, 10-15000 in 46.
We could also add the fighters of the Emergency Fighter Program - Wikipedia but since we assume that Germany was not close to defeat, I propose to assume that the Me 262 and the Arado 234 would have been improved instead, for example with the BMW 018 jet engine.
Various modern weapons like guided cruise missiles would have entered mass production. Enemy airfields would have been destroyed by precise cruise missiles. The Luftwaffe would have regained air superiority over Europe. Allied reinforcements would have been sunken by the Luftwaffe or Kriegsmarine and the frontiers in France and Italy would have collapsed. The soldiers would have surrendered and the western allies would have accepted Germany´s peace offer.

It was close in the east but our scenario assumes that Germany had more resources, anyway.

About the Russian tank production and reserve:
The tank production have been increased to about 2.300 tanks monthly, therefrom 1.300 T 34/85, 250 heavy tanks, 200 medium tanks and 550 light assault guns. To that are coming to Russia monthly 175 to 200 American tanks, mostly Shermans.
The casualties in 1945 (Jan & Feb) were valved at 8.500, thereof 4.600 in February. Before the offensive the stock of tanks was valved at 11.000, at the 02.28.1945 at 8.500. For compensation, 7.300 tanks were available apparently (Production and influx from 1 ½ months and a store of 3.500). The store was not expendet evidently, rather to imbibe at 1.200 (8.500 less 7.300). According to that the stock of tanks of the tank forces is sagged by ¾ , the stock of the reserve to 1/3. If the Russian casualties do not sag, the reserve of production and influx would have to be spent at the end of march. The number of available Russian tanks will plummet then.

The depleted Red Army would have been beaten back and the new German weapons come into weight. Even without the western allies joining the war on Germany´s side, the likelihood for the SU to defeat Germany would have been zero. A peace similar to 1917 would have been the result. Germany would dominate Europe and leave alone the British Empire, of which Hitler was a big admirer. According to Hitler, the Empire brought civilization to the world.

You´ll admit your scenario is even more unhealthy for you.

No, this is what was wanted. It's healthy for many reasons.

Let's look at something. It's all around resources. Personnel, manufacturing, natural resources and Time. What German did was run out of Natural Resources and Time. In order to prolong (time) the war another year, Germany would have need more natural resources. As in the more exotic types like Titanium. Had they had a local or available supply of that they would have been able to produce some pretty nasty things.

Okay, where and how would Germany have gained access to the natural resources it needed?

It´s your scenario. German production in 1944 exceeded all prior war years combined and even in March 1945 for example, 1400 tanks were made (note that a Tiger took ten months). The most serious lack was plane fuel, followed by regular fuel, coal and munitions. Munitions were not the major problem, even when the situation was tough. The defense requires less munition then the attack and the Germans were mostly in the defense. You also cannot make a factory and it will put out planes. You get parts from all across the country and somewhere they will be assembled. One factory loss can halt the entire production of one or more models. Luckily for Germans, many important factories were underground. However, your Luft46 setup simply requires a scenario in which Germany didn´t lack all the resources. So you deal with it. As for resources, a few missiles could have halted the entire bombing campaign of the US and the British Empire. Guided V2 were already available and apparently the thousands of V2 that were made were abused for retaliation purposes rather than for military. The leadership made a lot of mistakes, without those mistakes, a totally different outcome of the war would have been the result.

Not any of this means a thing unless some real changes were to happen.

1. Change in Leadership. That was tried a few times. I don't believe the Allies wanted Hitler replaced. He had way too many whims and it was always in the Allies favor. One more year would not have changed this.

2. Putting butts in the seats. It got so bad that the Germans were putting Cargo Plane Pilots into Fighters with little or no training. You can have a sky full of fighters but the attrition would have been even worse in the next year.

3. The V-2 was supposed to be a Terror Weapon. It ended up being a nucionse weapon at best. It just wasn't accurate enough to hit a smaller target than a small City. It took the US to make anything that accurate and then it wasn't until the 50s.

4, So you have 1400 262s in the air. Remember, the P-80A went into full production in June of 45. And the P-80A was at least as capable as the 262 and much more dependable. One was swept wing and the other was the new Ducted leading edge wing. In today's fighter, you will find both still being used and sometimes a combination of both. You can make 4 a month. Meanwhile, the US ramps up to over 100 a month and it continues to grow. And has the training birds to go with it, isn't having to dodge fighters and bombers while training. There are only 4 countries that can't be invaded. The US, Russia, China and Switzerland. Think about why this is so. The only reason that the Germans were so successful in Italy was the 234 flights. That is until the P-80s made the scene. The P-80 never did see the 234s but that sure did curtail those over flights. Until then, the 234 over flights meant that the Germans were aware of ALL movements by the Allies and could adjust accordingly.

You have yet to address the natural resources like Titanium, Tungsten, Oil, people and others. Where and how are they going to get it. This is the biggie that you have to address.

1. Hitler had less control then we assume today. There were many machinations and Hitler was fed with false intel and drugs all day long. The Russians were aware of German plans within hours and Hitler´s whims were even a good thing because they made the reality different from what the Russians learned. Treason was a mass phenomena within the higher ranks and I don´t even mean Stauffenberg here.

2. The same would apply for the allies, then. You know my thread about the flying aces and thus you understand that this was not the case but propaganda. Sure, everything was short, also pilots in 44/45 but not that short that they would have wasted all the untrained pilots and planes and they would not have done it because there is simply no sense in doing so. There was a small program, the Rammjäger, volunteers tried to hit bombers with their planes, trying to get out in the last moment but it was stupid and driven by the terrors these bombers brought and the desperation of not having the power to stop the bombings. But again, our scenario does not assume a grave situation.

3. The V2 was the first actual cruise missile. You won´t compare a double decker with a F-22 and the V2 was very developed for a first specimen of its kind. It traveled with up to 3580 mph. This is the fire control system of the radio controlled variant of the V2:

A mass production of radio controlled V2 would have had significant impact on the outcome of the war, the more so as there was also a submarine program that probably would have brought the V2 to America and all places of Britain in our scenario.

4. There were never 1400 Me 262. 1433 were made but most were destroyed on the ground while waiting for being transformed into Hitler´s Blitzbomber.
The allies also leaned the Me 262 was slow while starting and attacked it while starting and landing. You see, the situation was so grave that the Me 262 could not unfold its potential. It was a great plane with great flight characteristics. However, when it marked a new era of aircraft, it didn´t change the way air battles were fought.
The production of the first guided air to air missile began in Germany in 1945. 1000 were made but never delivered and they were not intended to be used by single seat fighters because there were problems with controlling the plane and the missile during tests. We can assume that this problems would have been solved and the missiles were carried by Me 262 (initially a favored model for the missile) in 1946. We also can assume a successful deployment against bombers and probably also fighters. Some Me 262 were also equipped with radar already. So we can assume that Germany would have changed the way of air battles in 1946 seriously, smashing all opponents with superior technology. The trainer variant of the Me 262 was the Me 262 B-1a.

First of all, the V-2 was a Ballistic Missile and not a cruise missile. The Cruise Missile title goes to the V-1. The Radio Controls for accuracy were still years beyond grasp. The Sub V-2 program was abandoned due to the V-2 being so easy to screw up. The chances of them actually launching was almost zero. Pick something that actually would have caused the war to go that extra year. And it ain't the V programs.

The ONLY thing weak about the 262 was the lack of Tungsten and Titanium. Unless you address the lack of natural resources, the war would have ended exactly the same day and exactly the same way.

Explain "screw up a V2" and again: You made this scenario up. V1 was a flying bomb, not even a real missile. Radio controlled V2 would have screwed up anything anyone planned.
Again: Rommel, who joined the Stauffenberg group, withhold his army when the allies landed. It was very close anyway and if Rommel would have acted in time, Luft46 would have been possible somehow.