Let's get our terminology straight

[shadrack]

conservative - pragmatic, practical, emphasizing tradition and continuity; they generally oppose rapid change emphasizing means over ends

ideologue - left (liberators) or right (nationalist) leaning social conservative; fiscal conservatives have a "live within means" stance; economic conservatives support laissez faire economics

neocon - lefties who moved right in support of an aggressive foreign policy, militantly anti-communist; they are not too pragmatic, don't trust peace through negotiations, diplomacy, arms controls, or containment; neocons tend to believe that an emphasis on reason over faith leads to the deterioration of society

liberal - an individual who has been emancipated from the group; they tend to shun dogma prefering pragmatism; they recognize achievements and failures of classical liberalism, e.g. the concentration of wealth and irrational economies; liberals believe that prices, wages, and profits should continue to be subject to negotiation among the interested parties, but price-wage-profit decisions affecting the economy as a whole must be reconciled with public policy; liberals support the Employment Act of 1946, "Federal Government is to use all practical means to promote maximum employment, production, and purchasing power".....sometimes liberalizing, sometimes socializing

 

[musicman]

conservative - pragmatic, practical, emphasizing tradition and continuity; they generally oppose rapid change emphasizing means over ends

ideologue - left (liberators) or right (nationalist) leaning social conservative; fiscal conservatives have a "live within means" stance; economic conservatives support laissez faire economics

neocon - lefties who moved right in support of an aggressive foreign policy, militantly anti-communist; they are not too pragmatic, don't trust peace through negotiations, diplomacy, arms controls, or containment; neocons tend to believe that an emphasis on reason over faith leads to the deterioration of society

liberal - an individual who has been emancipated from the group; they tend to shun dogma prefering pragmatism; they recognize achievements and failures of classical liberalism, e.g. the concentration of wealth and irrational economies; liberals believe that prices, wages, and profits should continue to be subject to negotiation among the interested parties, but price-wage-profit decisions affecting the economy as a whole must be reconciled with public policy; liberals support the Employment Act of 1946, "Federal Government is to use all practical means to promote maximum employment, production, and purchasing power".....sometimes liberalizing, sometimes socializing

Interesting views, shadrack. Thanks for adding them to the fray.

I actually consider traditional definitions of, say, "classical liberalism" and "conservatism" pretty useless in this day and age. The dictionaries just haven't kept pace with everyday political discourse in this country. For example, my experience tells me that the modern-day liberal politician indeed DOES embrace a specific dogma - to the point of fanaticism. He will attempt to give the appearance of having shunned dogma when it is politically expedient for him to do so. And it is ALWAYS politically expedient for him to mask who he essentially is; the American electorate have demonstrated again and again that the true liberal agenda repulses them. An honest look at the shifting power structure in this country demonsrates that liberals only succeed when they fool everyone into believing that they are not liberals (example: Bill Clinton, 1992).

Conservatives might support a statement that reads more like, "Federal Government is to use all practical means to mind what the United States Constitution has specifically deemed to be the Federal Government's business".

 

[NATO AIR]

Conservative- someone who is cautious with economic and social changes. not cautious on matters of defense and security. realist, often to a fault.

moderate- either a person able to be independent and have a fair mix of both conservative and liberal "qualties" without proclaiming allegiance to either dogma or any other and still remain effective
OR a person unwilling to take a risk by taking a stand, thus following whatever the polls say. contrary to popular thought among republicans, this latter category is what clinton was... a greedy, selfish opportunist who could swing right (welfare reform, support of law enforcement (except when he was breaking the law or someone near him), the death penalty) or left (affirmative action, defense, etc etc, too much to name)

liberal- idealist at heart, mostly to a fault. often views things not as they are but as they would like them to be, damaging their appreciation and realization of reality and actual circumstances, as well as facts and figures.
also, since the election, a bush-hater and a person who thinks america is stupid.

*** note, two of our greatest leaders of the past 30 years fit none of these labels nor any others. those men being ronald reagan and george bush. it may be heresy, but reagan had ideas on nuclear weapons, the soviet union and social status in america that were quite different from the conservatives of his time. bush may have been a conservative before 9/11, but he is now a revolutionary, abandoning many of the supposed qualities of conservatives or others in favor of a sweeping view of a new and reformed america and world. this is why his appeal is so broad to so many, and also why he is disliked so violently and hatefully.

 

[Zhukov]

Liberal - 'historic' - someone who cherishs freedom, above all other things

Liberal - 'contemporary' - someone who cherishs equality, above all other things

 

[Zhukov]

Fascist/Fascism:

authoritarian (though not necessarily totalitarian) and hierarchical,

scornful/distrustful of democracy,

fiercely anti-Communist,

intensely nationalistic,

desiring foremost national purpose and direction,

rejection of the Marxist idea of class struggle; in favor of class collaboration

business owners are arranged into corporates, given legislative influence, and their aims are aligned with the purpose and direction of the State; corparitism

economic liberty, insofar as economic aims are concurrent with, or not anatagonistic to, the purpose and direction of the State

suppresion of political views and opinions considered contrary or inhibitory to the purpose and direction of the State

the State is an end unto itself, and is to be served and obeyed

 

[musicman]

Liberal - 'historic' - someone who cherishs freedom, above all other things

Liberal - 'contemporary' - somone who cherishs equality, above all other things

Absolutely on the money. This is a distinction many refuse to make today.

 

[musicman]

Fascist/Fascism:

authoritarian and hierarchical,

scornful/distrustful of democracy,

fiercely anti-Communist,

intensely nationalistic,

desiring foremost national purpose and direction,

rejection of the Marxist idea of class struggle; in favor of class collaboration

business owners are arranged into corporates, given legislative influence, and their aims are aligned with the purpose and direction of the State; corparitism

economic liberty, insofar as economic aims are concurrent with, or not anatagonistic to, the purpose and direction of the State

suppresion of political views and opinions considered contrary or inhibitory to the purpose and direction of the State

the State is an end unto itself, and is to be served and obeyed

That reads uncannily like a blueprint for Nazi Germany.

 

[Zhukov]

That reads uncannily like a blueprint for Nazi Germany.

Hitler was indeed a fascist.

 

[musicman]

Hitler was indeed a fascist.

And Mussolini with him, although Benito was neither as forceful or successful. But, ironically, some people don't entirely appreciate self-government, and the responsibility that goes with it. Postwar Italians were heard to lament, "At least Mussolini made the trains run on time".

 

[dilloduck]

And Mussolini with him, although Benito was neither as forceful or successful. But, ironically, some people don't entirely appreciate self-government, and the responsibility that goes with it. Postwar Italians were heard to lament, "At least Mussolini made the trains run on time".

Unforunately many Americans don't appreciate self rule either and are only "resposible" enough to expect the "government" to take care of everything.

 

[Zhukov]

some people don't entirely appreciate self-government, and the responsibility that goes with it

Most people can't be bothered with the responsibilities of self-government. Even in this country roughly half of eligible voters can't be bothered to exercise that privilege. For many people it's enough that someone is in charge, someone else, so they don't have to worry about it.

 

[musicman]

Unforunately many Americans don't appreciate self rule either and are only "resposible" enough to expect the "government" to take care of everything.

Ain't THAT the truth! We don't have to look too far to find people who can't be bothered with the burden of doing for themselves. It sounds bizarre, but I guess - to some people - the term, "limited government" has a terrifying, alien ring to it.

 

[musicman]

Most people can't be bothered with the responsibilities of self-government. Even in this country roughly half of eligible voters can't be bothered to exercise that privilege. For many people it's enough that someone is in charge, someone else, so they don't have to worry about it.

Those are the people I don't want to hear bellyaching when they're unhappy with the status quo. Not voting is the same as saying, "Whatever's going on right now is OK with me."

 

[Huckleburry]

Conservative: A liberal with a different set of talking points.
Moderate: Independent minded person who takes the time to learn about the issues before making a decision. Understands that mistakes are made and is willing to accept empirical evidence as reason to change course.
Neo Conn: the guy wearing the bowtie on cross fire.
Commie bastard: non-existent unless you happen to be liberal/conservative who is cornered in a debate and, rather than loose with a bit of grace, decide to attack your opponent personally by using the old commie bastard attack

 

[musicman]

Conservative: A liberal with a different set of talking points.
Moderate: Independent minded person who takes the time to learn about the issues before making a decision. Understands that mistakes are made and is willing to accept empirical evidence as reason to change course.
Neo Conn: the guy wearing the bowtie on cross fire.
Commie bastard: non-existent unless you happen to be liberal/conservative who is cornered in a debate and, rather than loose with a bit of grace, decide to attack your opponent personally by using the old commie bastard attack

Thanks for sharing your views.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that you consider yourself a moderate?

 

[Huckleburry]

You must be a detective

 

[Doc Holiday]

Conervative - Someone who believes in truth, justice and the American way

Liberal - Someone who believes lying is ok, justice is an urban myth, and the American way should be approved by the UN

Moderate - Someone who sits on the fence until someone pushes them off