Without Roy Spencer`s "back radiation" there is no positive feed back from a cooler body to a hotter one and any "global warming" can`t come from 380 ppm CO2. Since Roy has been debunked by a whole lot of engineers he avoids debating this perpetual motion machine principle and the only way we could debate him since then is like Clint Eastwood debated Obama.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhCfjh_IlzI"]Dirty Harry debates Obama chair (anonymous style) - YouTube[/ame]
But I`m not a Hollywood movie actor so instead I`ll let Roy speak here through his quotes:
Yes, Virginia, Cooler Objects Can Make Warmer Objects Even Warmer Still « Roy Spencer, Ph. D.
Let me google that for you
Lets pick a couple .:
How to Make and Use the Solar Funnel Cooker
http://littleshop.physics.colostate.edu/tenthings/SpaceFridge.pdf
I’ve discussed this issue with someone I work with, a physicist, and he pointed out there are photonic IR detectors. I see from internet searches that these can operate at room temperature.
If such photonic detectors can measure IR photons coming from a cold surface, would you consider that as evidence that IR radiation is indeed emitted by a colder object in the direction of a warmer object?
yes-virginia-cooler-objects-can-make-warmer-objects-even-warmer-still ?
Even your oldest daughter, a realtor who has an aversion to things scientific, got the right answer when You used this example on her ?
So lets vote on Roy Spencer`s "back radiation" where a cold object can make a warm object even warmer global warming back radiation miracle photons that defy all laws of thermodynamics.
Would You A.) rather sit in the desert sun under a "back radiation" sun umbrella or B.) do You prefer to "cool off" out in the open with Roy Spencer ?
And before anybody comes in here and switches the subject ( again) to the "melting glaciers" trying to prove that this crap is science..I don`t care which..don`t shoot your mouth off like Roy and his stupid "Yes Virginina" thought(less) experiment...and before You accuse us that our fossil CO2 can be linked to a "record low" glacier thickness on Greenland without first explaining where all the heat came from that evaporated all that water somewhere else so it could fall as snow and freeze to mile thick glaciers in Greenland .
If You do I`ll shoot You like fish in a barrel or worse.
Good night, I`m done and the "Yes Virginia" skeptic fridge I tried out...using a 6 inch bushnell reflector telescope wrapped with fiberglass insulation, pointed out the closed (!!) bedroom window froze a styro-foam cup full of water solid !
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhCfjh_IlzI"]Dirty Harry debates Obama chair (anonymous style) - YouTube[/ame]
But I`m not a Hollywood movie actor so instead I`ll let Roy speak here through his quotes:
Yes, Virginia, Cooler Objects Can Make Warmer Objects Even Warmer Still « Roy Spencer, Ph. D.
If Clint Eastwood were an engineer he would have said:Even my oldest daughter, a realtor who has an aversion to things scientific, got the right answer when I used this example on her.
To which Roy replied:Dr. Spencer:
Your thought experiment was interesting. A more accurate title would be “Yes, Virginia, Cooler Objects Can APPEAR To Make Warmer Objects Warmer Still.” The cooler bar did not actually make the heated bar warmer. You have shown the value of insulation. You have also shown the value of how semantics plays in scientific discussion. I’m sure that those of the Catastrophic AGW faith are making great use of your blog’s title. From what I have read, one of the reasons the AGW theory fails is because it requires CO2 to be a super-insulator.
and adds:I purposely phrased the title in a somewhat ambiguous manner because those how say the opposite (who disagree with me) do the same thing.
Even Clint Eastwood would have noticed that a insulating blanket is not the same as what Roy is trying to pass off as "back radiation" and would have grilled Roy on that point:Examples are All Around Us
Examples of objects with lower temperatures causing objects with higher temperatures to become even higher still are all around us.
For instance, in terms of these most basic heating and cooling concepts (energy gain and energy loss), the same thing happens when you put a blanket over yourself when it is cold. The blanket stays cooler than your skin, but it nevertheless makes your skin warmer than if the cooler blanket was not there. Even though the direction of flow of heat never changes (it is always from warmer to cooler objects), a cooler object can still make a warm object even hotter.
And if Clint Eastwood would be an engineer he would have pointed out a few facts to Roy Spencer:Roy, if all you are doing is demonstrating that thermal insulation will raise the temperature of a heated object
But Roy, you are making a different claim. You are postulating something called “radiative-insulation”, and suggesting that it will act like thermal insulation. That is much more problematical
Roy replied:photons are NOT heat, not even IR photons.
I suspect this corruption of basic physics is due to ulterior motives. In your case, Roy, your work on cloud feedbacks depends on there being a greenhouse effect due to back/downdwelling IR. Take this away and much of your research and that of others becomes worthless
Clint Eastwood would have said:OK, then if the IR photonic detector measures one intensity of “EM waves” from an object colder than itself, and a different intensity from the object when at a different temperature, would that be evidence that colder objects emit IR radiation toward warmer objects?
If not, why not?
I’ve discussed this issue with someone I work with, a physicist, and he pointed out there are photonic IR detectors. I see from internet searches that these can operate at room temperature.
If such photonic detectors can measure IR photons coming from a cold surface, would you consider that as evidence that IR radiation is indeed emitted by a colder object in the direction of a warmer object?
And if there were a few house wives and and a few cooks in the audience who have a solar oven / fridge they would have bust out laughing...:If the greenhouse effect were real (and think about this please Dr Spencer!) then the ice would warm the vodka and the wamer vodka could cool the ice.
Let me google that for you
Lets pick a couple .:
How to Make and Use the Solar Funnel Cooker
Or this one :by Steven E. Jones, Professor of Physics at Brigham Young University
How to Use the Solar Funnel as a Refrigerator/Cooler
the BYU Solar Funnel Cooker can be used - at night - as a refrigerator. Here is how this is done.
The Solar Funnel Cooker is set-up just as you would during sun-light hours,
The funnel is directed at the dark night sky. It should not "see" any buildings or even trees.
It helps to place 2 (two) bags around the jar instead of just one, with air spaces between the bags and between the inner bag and the jar. HDPE and ordinary polyethylene bags work well, since polyethylene is nearly transparent to infrared radiation, allowing it to escape into the "heat sink" of the dark sky.
During the day, the sun's rays are reflected onto the cooking vessel which becomes hot quickly. At night, heat from the vessel is radiated outward, towards empty space, which is very cold indeed (a "heat sink").
As a result, the cooking vessel now becomes a small refrigerator. We routinely achieve cooling of about 20º F (10º C) below ambient air temperature using this remarkably simple scheme.
http://littleshop.physics.colostate.edu/tenthings/SpaceFridge.pdf
Oh what was that You said before Roy?..:A solar oven is designed to capture solar energy to heat something to a higher temperature than the surrounding air. You put an object in a mirrored box with a glass lid. Radiation comes in, reflects, and strikes the object in the box, warming it up. Basically, the object “sees” more light from the sun than it otherwise would.
But suppose we turned this idea around. If you put an object in the solar oven but replace the top with something that transmits infrared.
Then we put the box out at night and point it at open sky.
What happens? It makes a refrigerator—a “space refrigerator.” The object cools to a lower temperature than the surrounding air!
I’ve discussed this issue with someone I work with, a physicist, and he pointed out there are photonic IR detectors. I see from internet searches that these can operate at room temperature.
If such photonic detectors can measure IR photons coming from a cold surface, would you consider that as evidence that IR radiation is indeed emitted by a colder object in the direction of a warmer object?
yes-virginia-cooler-objects-can-make-warmer-objects-even-warmer-still ?
Even your oldest daughter, a realtor who has an aversion to things scientific, got the right answer when You used this example on her ?
So lets vote on Roy Spencer`s "back radiation" where a cold object can make a warm object even warmer global warming back radiation miracle photons that defy all laws of thermodynamics.
Would You A.) rather sit in the desert sun under a "back radiation" sun umbrella or B.) do You prefer to "cool off" out in the open with Roy Spencer ?
And before anybody comes in here and switches the subject ( again) to the "melting glaciers" trying to prove that this crap is science..I don`t care which..don`t shoot your mouth off like Roy and his stupid "Yes Virginina" thought(less) experiment...and before You accuse us that our fossil CO2 can be linked to a "record low" glacier thickness on Greenland without first explaining where all the heat came from that evaporated all that water somewhere else so it could fall as snow and freeze to mile thick glaciers in Greenland .
If You do I`ll shoot You like fish in a barrel or worse.
Good night, I`m done and the "Yes Virginia" skeptic fridge I tried out...using a 6 inch bushnell reflector telescope wrapped with fiberglass insulation, pointed out the closed (!!) bedroom window froze a styro-foam cup full of water solid !
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