Labor Unions...Good or Bad?

[code1211]

Unions remind me of that scene from "Goodfellas" were Ray Liotta is like "fuck you pay me, fuck you pay me, fuck you pay me."

It's not mistake the Italian and Irish mafia made labor unions happen...

It just so happens the delegates and heads are the Kings and Queens and the workers are the pawns.

If people can't see that then they're stupid and deserve $6.50 an hour....

These criminals are guilty of racketeering...

If you think these criminal fucks are for you or the common man then you really are stupid....

I'm just curious why you think any job is only worth $6.50 an hour, but a CEO who runs his company into the ground and needs a government bailout deserves $12,000,000 a year.

All Unions do is make sure that they proceeds are fairly distributed...

And if people running companies were fair, we probably wouldn't need unions.

Everyone is worth only what someone else is willing to pay for his services.

 

[code1211]

Unions unto themselves are neither good nor bad. It's like asking if corporations are good or bad.

Oh, no, Corporations are by their definition evil.

Absolutely.

Because they create "deferred responsibility".

I'm not the one destroying your life, Bob. It's "the corporation".

By the law of nature, is a predator "bad" because he kills "prey". More likely the terms good and bad are not applicable.

Corporations are neither good nor bad. They just are.

 

[JoeB131]

Keynesian Economics was never used. It demands that in good time the treasury be filled to overflowing and then in bad time the EXCESS funds be distributed. Keynseian Economics does not recommend borrowing to give it away.

Also, and not to put too fine a point on this, how do we run up a 15+ Trillion Dollar debt using Supply Side economics? Giving away cash is what you are prescribing and that is exactly what the Big 0 is doing.

It's also what W did.

Clinton had the scales going the other way.

Do you ever review real facts or just repeat what you hear at the Union Hall?

Keynesian economics also called for taxing the wealthy at a high rate, which is what we haven't been doing since the 1980's, really.

We run up a 15 trilion dollar debt because we are not taxing people at an appropriate level.

And that's the problem. People look at what they get with government and don't have to pay for it (now) and they just totally want more of that shit.

If we taxed appropriately, we could have some sensible discussions about spending.

Another point. In a true Keynesian model, money is spent on infrastructure, not entitlements. The real problem is that we have so many entitlements that are paid for people do nothing.... FDR established the CCC and TVA and REA put the unemployed to work making roads and dams and stuff.

 

[JoeB131]

Unions unto themselves are neither good nor bad. It's like asking if corporations are good or bad.

Oh, no, Corporations are by their definition evil.

Absolutely.

Because they create "deferred responsibility".

I'm not the one destroying your life, Bob. It's "the corporation".

By the law of nature, is a predator "bad" because he kills "prey". More likely the terms good and bad are not applicable.

Corporations are neither good nor bad. They just are.

A predator only kills what it needs to survive.

A corporation kills to get more than it ever really needs. Take Mitt Romney. Guy was born rich. Never had to put an AmPad worker out of work to feed his own family. They never wanted for Grey Poupon. He did it for the joy of doing it.

And that's actually kind of evil.

 

[code1211]

Oh, no, Corporations are by their definition evil.

Absolutely.

Because they create "deferred responsibility".

I'm not the one destroying your life, Bob. It's "the corporation".

So "corporations are evil" goes onto your Über-RINO list then? Or are you being sarcastic?

When did "complete blind loyalty to multi-national corporations" become the Gospel of the GOP?

Of course, they are fucking evil. They have no loyalty to anyone but a bigger profit.

Greed is the root of all evil.

Corporations have designed, built, created, distributed and provide all that makes our civilization possible.

What are you talking about?

 

[JoeB131]

Unions remind me of that scene from "Goodfellas" were Ray Liotta is like "fuck you pay me, fuck you pay me, fuck you pay me."

It's not mistake the Italian and Irish mafia made labor unions happen...

It just so happens the delegates and heads are the Kings and Queens and the workers are the pawns.

If people can't see that then they're stupid and deserve $6.50 an hour....

These criminals are guilty of racketeering...

If you think these criminal fucks are for you or the common man then you really are stupid....

I'm just curious why you think any job is only worth $6.50 an hour, but a CEO who runs his company into the ground and needs a government bailout deserves $12,000,000 a year.

All Unions do is make sure that they proceeds are fairly distributed...

And if people running companies were fair, we probably wouldn't need unions.

Everyone is worth only what someone else is willing to pay for his services.

No, everyone is worth what they are able to manipulate.

You know, for guys who don't believe in evolution because it negates the need for a God, a lot of you guys are really social Darwinists.

 

[code1211]

Keynesian Economics was never used. It demands that in good time the treasury be filled to overflowing and then in bad time the EXCESS funds be distributed. Keynseian Economics does not recommend borrowing to give it away.

Also, and not to put too fine a point on this, how do we run up a 15+ Trillion Dollar debt using Supply Side economics? Giving away cash is what you are prescribing and that is exactly what the Big 0 is doing.

It's also what W did.

Clinton had the scales going the other way.

Do you ever review real facts or just repeat what you hear at the Union Hall?

Keynesian economics also called for taxing the wealthy at a high rate, which is what we haven't been doing since the 1980's, really.

We run up a 15 trilion dollar debt because we are not taxing people at an appropriate level.

And that's the problem. People look at what they get with government and don't have to pay for it (now) and they just totally want more of that shit.

If we taxed appropriately, we could have some sensible discussions about spending.

Another point. In a true Keynesian model, money is spent on infrastructure, not entitlements. The real problem is that we have so many entitlements that are paid for people do nothing.... FDR established the CCC and TVA and REA put the unemployed to work making roads and dams and stuff.

I have no problem with taxation. It is what supports a good and vital societal platform.

All of this "fair share BS is annoying because half to he country pays no tax at all. Everyone, EVERYONE, needs to pay some tax. Even if it's only a dollar. Everyone needs to pay.

Do the rich need to pay more. Of course. And they do.

Is the tax system a mess and does it need to be corrected? Of course.

Since the Reagan Tax deal, about 50,000 regulations have been added to the Tax Code. The tax code is a disgrace.

Our paid thieves in the Congress are constantly tinkering with the tax code to penalize some and reward others. It is their way to gain campaign money. They are a disgrace and their activities would be defined as being criminally corrupt if they were not the people who made the laws that define such things.

Any increased tax is therefore suspect and anyone who demands it is either unaware of or a part of the corruption.

 

[Toro]

Keynesian Economics was never used. It demands that in good time the treasury be filled to overflowing and then in bad time the EXCESS funds be distributed. Keynseian Economics does not recommend borrowing to give it away.

Also, and not to put too fine a point on this, how do we run up a 15+ Trillion Dollar debt using Supply Side economics? Giving away cash is what you are prescribing and that is exactly what the Big 0 is doing.

It's also what W did.

Clinton had the scales going the other way.

Do you ever review real facts or just repeat what you hear at the Union Hall?

Keynesian economics also called for taxing the wealthy at a high rate, which is what we haven't been doing since the 1980's, really.

We run up a 15 trilion dollar debt because we are not taxing people at an appropriate level.

And that's the problem. People look at what they get with government and don't have to pay for it (now) and they just totally want more of that shit.

If we taxed appropriately, we could have some sensible discussions about spending.

Another point. In a true Keynesian model, money is spent on infrastructure, not entitlements. The real problem is that we have so many entitlements that are paid for people do nothing.... FDR established the CCC and TVA and REA put the unemployed to work making roads and dams and stuff.

In a true Keynesian model, money is spent on entitlements.

 

[code1211]

Oh, no, Corporations are by their definition evil.

Absolutely.

Because they create "deferred responsibility".

I'm not the one destroying your life, Bob. It's "the corporation".

By the law of nature, is a predator "bad" because he kills "prey". More likely the terms good and bad are not applicable.

Corporations are neither good nor bad. They just are.

A predator only kills what it needs to survive.

A corporation kills to get more than it ever really needs. Take Mitt Romney. Guy was born rich. Never had to put an AmPad worker out of work to feed his own family. They never wanted for Grey Poupon. He did it for the joy of doing it.

And that's actually kind of evil.

I would assume that AmPad was a company purchased by Bain. ? If yes, who sold AmPad to Bain? Why did they sell? Did they make a profit? Were there any competitive forces at work here? Was there a change in the market place?

I have seen many companies rise in profitability and then fall. Right now, any company that is based on paper better be looking for a way to diversify. Any company that is good at distribution is probably a good bet. In 1970, the reverse was true.

The world is a changing place.

Life comes at you fast.

 

[code1211]

I'm just curious why you think any job is only worth $6.50 an hour, but a CEO who runs his company into the ground and needs a government bailout deserves $12,000,000 a year.

All Unions do is make sure that they proceeds are fairly distributed...

And if people running companies were fair, we probably wouldn't need unions.

Everyone is worth only what someone else is willing to pay for his services.

No, everyone is worth what they are able to manipulate.

You know, for guys who don't believe in evolution because it negates the need for a God, a lot of you guys are really social Darwinists.

"You guys" ? I don't know what you're talking about. I happen to be an evolutionist. How does this connect to anything we are discussing?

 

[JoeB131]

I have no problem with taxation. It is what supports a good and vital societal platform.

All of this "fair share BS is annoying because half to he country pays no tax at all. Everyone, EVERYONE, needs to pay some tax. Even if it's only a dollar. Everyone needs to pay.

And here's where you have no credibility because you regurgitate the Limbaugh Bullshit...

First, a lot of people don't pay income taxes. Some of them don't because they have no income, like Children. Others fall so low that hey don't pay INCOME tax, but they aer still paying sales taxes and so on. Social Security and Medicare are flat taxes that are capped out.

So in terms of PERCENTAGES, I paid a larger percentage of my income to taxes than Mitt Romney did on whatever he has in his Cayman's bank account. But Limbaugh won't talk about that.

Do the rich need to pay more. Of course. And they do.

Is the tax system a mess and does it need to be corrected? Of course.

Since the Reagan Tax deal, about 50,000 regulations have been added to the Tax Code. Tax a disgrace.

But who went out and fought for those regulations? Businesses and monied interests... You let the fox design the henhouse, and then you complain about the missing chickens.

Our paid thieves in the Congress are constantly tinkering with the tax code to penalize some and reward others. It is their way to gain campaign money. They are a disgrace and their activities would be defined as being criminally corrupt if they were not the people who made the laws that define such things.

Any increased tax is therefore suspect and anyone who demands it is either unaware of or a part of the corruption.

Actually, every tax break is something someone thought was a good idea at the time. So griping about the tax code is a cop out that doesn't really address the problems I stated.

 

[JoeB131]

[
I would assume that AmPad was a company purchased by Bain.

If you don't know this very basic stuff, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to have a conversation with you....

 

[SniperFire]

Labor Unions...Good or Bad?


Getting close to irrelevant, and will be soon as public unions are de-nutted.

Stay tuned!

 

[JoeB131]

In a true Keynesian model, money is spent on entitlements.

Only in a very limited sense.

For instance, when Social Security was first introduced, a 65 retirement age seemed pretty reasonable given the average AMerican life expectency in 1932 was 62 years.

Today it's 78.

But the problem is that the Corporate Assholes you love so much don't want to hire old people. Which is why when I interview, I dye my hair, don't mention what year I graduate college on my resume and only go back 12 years in my work history.

 

[code1211]

I have no problem with taxation. It is what supports a good and vital societal platform.

All of this "fair share BS is annoying because half to he country pays no tax at all. Everyone, EVERYONE, needs to pay some tax. Even if it's only a dollar. Everyone needs to pay.

And here's where you have no credibility because you regurgitate the Limbaugh Bullshit...

First, a lot of people don't pay income taxes. Some of them don't because they have no income, like Children. Others fall so low that hey don't pay INCOME tax, but they aer still paying sales taxes and so on. Social Security and Medicare are flat taxes that are capped out.

So in terms of PERCENTAGES, I paid a larger percentage of my income to taxes than Mitt Romney did on whatever he has in his Cayman's bank account. But Limbaugh won't talk about that.

Do the rich need to pay more. Of course. And they do.

Is the tax system a mess and does it need to be corrected? Of course.

Since the Reagan Tax deal, about 50,000 regulations have been added to the Tax Code. Tax a disgrace.

But who went out and fought for those regulations? Businesses and monied interests... You let the fox design the henhouse, and then you complain about the missing chickens.

Our paid thieves in the Congress are constantly tinkering with the tax code to penalize some and reward others. It is their way to gain campaign money. They are a disgrace and their activities would be defined as being criminally corrupt if they were not the people who made the laws that define such things.

Any increased tax is therefore suspect and anyone who demands it is either unaware of or a part of the corruption.

Actually, every tax break is something someone thought was a good idea at the time. So griping about the tax code is a cop out that doesn't really address the problems I stated.

I assumed we were talking about able bodied, working adults who are a part of the economy and enjoy the blessings of the society. Why do you obfuscate when we seemed to be having an exchange of ideas? That said, I don't know why and don't agree with the concept of capping the taxable portion of a person's in income when figuring the share to support SS. Never did. Never will.

You don't put a percent in the bank and what the percent of your income is compared to the percent of Romney's makes no difference to me. It's an us/them, social envy, divisive attack and is perfect for the sheep of the Left.

If Mitt makes a million dollars or one dollar, it does nothing for you. Your income is based on what YOU do. You. You are are the main player in your life.

The tax code is designed by the people that we send to Washington. The problem is the government and the solution is to shrink the size, power and reach of the Federal Government and return the power to the most local government that can still do the job.

Take the money out of Washington and the corruption will go away.

 

[SniperFire]

I would assume that AmPad was a company purchased by Bain. ? If yes, who sold AmPad to Bain? Why did they sell? Did they make a profit?

I was around that sort of thing at the time. Mead - the GM of the paper business - bought AmPad to use as a value brand.

They failed, because they were the GM of the paper business. They sold to Bain who turned it around quickly and took it public.:

'The company continued to enjoy 53 percent compound annual growth in net sales, which increased from $8.8 million in 1992 to $200.5 million in 1996, when the company became publicly traded. The company made a number of acquisitions, including writing products company SCM in July 1994, brand names from the American Trading and Production Corporation in August 1995, WR Acquisition and the Williamhouse-Regency Division of Delaware, Inc. in October, 1995, Niagara Envelope Company, Inc. in 1996, and Shade/Allied, Inc. in February 1997.'

Ampad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They eventually failed, but not before Bain cleaned them up and they went public.

 

[code1211]

[
I would assume that AmPad was a company purchased by Bain.

If you don't know this very basic stuff, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to have a conversation with you....

Why not enlighten me?

 

[jack113]

Attacking organized labor is a communist trait.

 

[Toro]

In a true Keynesian model, money is spent on entitlements.

Only in a very limited sense.

For instance, when Social Security was first introduced, a 65 retirement age seemed pretty reasonable given the average AMerican life expectency in 1932 was 62 years.

Today it's 78.

Keynes argued that money lost from a loss in employment should be replaced by some form of government insurance. Government assistance, hence entitlements, is very much a part of the Keynesian model. The technical design of the program is an open issue.

But the problem is that the Corporate Assholes you love so much don't want to hire old people. Which is why when I interview, I dye my hair, don't mention what year I graduate college on my resume and only go back 12 years in my work history.

The world owes you a living. Right. Got it. You've made that very clear.

 

[Steelplate]

What you guys are forgetting in your "your value is only what someone is willing to pay bullshit"is this...

The economy needs consumers. If you are paying your potential consumers a mere pittance...hell...even just enough to barely survive in this God awfully expensive country, there is no money available to buy the goods and services that business people make their livings upon. Over the past thirty years we have seen a huge decline in spending power in our working and middle class....which is the backbone of our economy. At the same time, we have seen the incomes of the wealthy climb by some 600%, and our economy slowly swirl down the toilet. The banking sector tried to make up for this by using easy credit and predatory lending practices(credit cards, mortgage refinances, etc.) Anne that slowed the decline down somewhat, but it was a bandaid on a shark bite....andthe banks profited hugely on other people's misery. Along comes 2008, and the whole dammed thing collapsed. When the issue all along was a lack of spending power by the vast majority of people who work for others.