Labor Fighting Back

[sealybobo]

Wasn't Stalin pro-life, with respect to abortion? I believe the "Soviet Family" idea was promoted during his time in power. These right-wingers are the least friendly to "family values". The austerities that they impose on American working-class families, increase the divorce rate and decrease the chances of mom staying home with the kids. She's forced to get a job, with dad. Even grandma has to work outside the home with grandpa. I was a latchkey kid, raised in the 1970s and 80s. Dad, mom, grandma..everyone was at work outside the home. Thanks to Republican politics/economic policies, their so called "family values" (mammon worshipers). Serving the rich to the detriment of working-class families. That's "family values".

Back when unions were strong, labor made enough money that a blue collar worker could raise a family of 5. Even save enough for retirement. Many of them got pensions and social security. Baby boomers. Then they took over our corporations and government and now tell us we can not afford to have it as good as they did.

I think my generation Gen X was the first that was predicted to not do as good as our parents did. Even though I went to college and they didn't. Now today it's even worse. Now guys like me can't even afford to go to college. But I can't go get a job that will afford a family of 5 like my baby boomer dad did. What are young Americans going to do? They're being told not to go to college and anyone without a degree is broke. Republicans only response is become a plumber or electrician. Oh dare to dream. LOL

 

[Red Front]

Lower labor costs.

CEO's get big raises every year. Who pays for those raises? Consumers and labor.

Are you referring to affluent shareholders who possess voting rights on company policies? It's important to note that this group represents only a small percentage of stockholders, and typically consists of individuals with significant wealth. It raises the question of why workers should endure lower wages while a select few benefit disproportionately.

If capitalism, as an economic system, perpetuates extreme inequality and gives rise to economic crises, it becomes necessary for the government to implement regulations. The notion of the "invisible hand" and its reliance on market adjustments has been known to result in economic hardships for millions of individuals. Without governmental intervention and labor protections, capitalism always fails to adequately address the needs of the community. This is because the primary objective of capitalist production is always focused on maximizing profits rather than meeting human needs.

 

[sealybobo]

Are you referring to affluent shareholders who possess voting rights on company policies? It's important to note that this group represents only a small percentage of stockholders, and typically consists of individuals with significant wealth. It raises the question of why workers should endure lower wages while a select few benefit disproportionately.

If capitalism, as an economic system, perpetuates extreme inequality and gives rise to economic crises, it becomes necessary for the government to implement regulations. The notion of the "invisible hand" and its reliance on market adjustments has been known to result in economic hardships for millions of individuals. Without governmental intervention and labor protections, capitalism always fails to adequately address the needs of the community. This is because the primary objective of capitalist production is always focused on maximizing profits rather than meeting human needs.

You know how they say Capitalism is the worst ism except for all the other isms? It is not perfect. It relies on ditch diggers. Needs poor people to do the work.

And look at the debt. Yes, the rich can manipulate our economy and cause recessions even depressions when they want. If it wasn't all made up ponzi scheme, look at the debt. Wouldn't the debt be a big problem? But they say debt doesn't matter. Even though it doubles every 8 years.

And social security is going to RUN OUT of money in 10 years. Do you think everyone's going to just get fucked?

And they say we're broke but in the 2000's we figured out how to afford 2 20 year wars.

It's all made up. The feds may raise or lower interest rates.

Just remember our government is the ultimate referee. Is it working for all of us or just the rich?

"You Can't Govern if You Don't Believe in Government"

In a May 25, 2001 interview, Grover Norquist told National Public Radio's Mara Liasson, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." Norquist got his wish.

www.thomhartmann.com

Nobles Need Not Pay Taxes

A new aristocracy is taking over not just the United States of America but also the world. ... This is more than just a tax cut story.

www.thomhartmann.com

Since Reagan, it's been working mostly for the rich. And now we have a very pro rich Supreme Court for at least 2 generations.

 

[Red Front]

Back when unions were strong, labor made enough money that a blue collar worker could raise a family of 5. Even save enough for retirement. Many of them got pensions and social security. Baby boomers. Then they took over our corporations and government and now tell us we can not afford to have it as good as they did.

I think my generation Gen X was the first that was predicted to not do as good as our parents did. Even though I went to college and they didn't. Now today it's even worse. Now guys like me can't even afford to go to college. But I can't go get a job that will afford a family of 5 like my baby boomer dad did. What are young Americans going to do? They're being told not to go to college and anyone without a degree is broke. Republicans only response is become a plumber or electrician. Oh dare to dream. LOL

The Z-gens are waking up to all of the bullshit. They're not going to continue with the right-wing, crony capitalism, which has stripped them of their American Dream. They're going to end all of the unjust austerities imposed on human labor by greedy capitalists. It's all going to end soon. I'm 50, I'm also a Gen-X. My parents were born in the 1940s, with my father being of the late "Silent Generation", he's now 82 years old. Our children and grandchildren aren't going to allow the wealthy ruling elites to consign them to techno-feudalism and eventually to the compost heap. The Zoomers are going to take control of the robots and artificial intelligence, making the economy work for the public good. Watch and see.

 

[Red Front]

You know how they say Capitalism is the worst ism except for all the other isms? It is not perfect. It relies on ditch diggers. Needs poor people to do the work.

And look at the debt. Yes, the rich can manipulate our economy and cause recessions even depressions when they want. If it wasn't all made up ponzi scheme, look at the debt. Wouldn't the debt be a big problem? But they say debt doesn't matter. Even though it doubles every 8 years.

And social security is going to RUN OUT of money in 10 years. Do you think everyone's going to just get fucked?

And they say we're broke but in the 2000's we figured out how to afford 2 20 year wars.

It's all made up. The feds may raise or lower interest rates.

Just remember our government is the ultimate referee. Is it working for all of us or just the rich?

"You Can't Govern if You Don't Believe in Government"

In a May 25, 2001 interview, Grover Norquist told National Public Radio's Mara Liasson, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." Norquist got his wish.

www.thomhartmann.com

Nobles Need Not Pay Taxes

A new aristocracy is taking over not just the United States of America but also the world. ... This is more than just a tax cut story.

www.thomhartmann.com

Since Reagan, it's been working mostly for the rich. And now we have a very pro rich Supreme Court for at least 2 generations.

The so-called "debt" isn't really a debt. Right-wingers and Dems that have drunk the capitalist Kool-Aid, harp about the "national debt", asking "whose going to pay for it", due to ignorance or an irrational hatred for government involvement in the economy. They want to privatize everything, placing all of our nation's resources in the hands of billionaires. Big corporations. They always fearmonger about the "national debt", that's not even a real debt, in the traditional sense of the word.

 

[sealybobo]

The Z-gens are waking up to all of the bullshit. They're not going to continue with the right-wing, crony capitalism, which has stripped them of their American Dream. They're going to end all of the unjust austerities imposed on human labor by greedy capitalists. It's all going to end soon. I'm 50, I'm also a Gen-X. My parents were born in the 1940s, with my father being of the late "Silent Generation", he's now 82 years old. Our children and grandchildren aren't going to allow the wealthy ruling elites to consign them to techno-feudalism and eventually to the compost heap. The Zoomers are going to take control of the robots and artificial intelligence, making the economy work for the public good. Watch and see.

My dad is almost 80 and healthy thank god. Doesn't seem like America today wants us middle class people to get any inheritances when our parents die. Look how much senior living costs? They'll gobble up all the money quickly as they cost anywhere from $5K to $25K a month. Insane! And even the expensive ones are understaffed and shit holes.

You know how obscenely expensive senior living is? I tried to google what the average cost was and google wouldn't tell me. All that came up were senior living places. You click on them and they don't say either. You have to call. Like timeshares they want to rope you in. They don't tell you the true cost until they got you interested.

There has to be a better way. Like a condo that is only for seniors but they have a nurse, handy man, etc. Everything they need but not $5000 a month. Why do senior living places have to be so fucking expensive?

 

[hadit]

Lower labor costs.

CEO's get big raises every year. Who pays for those raises? Consumers and labor.

If they lower costs and get pay raises, the consumer doesn't pay, and outsourcing cuts costs. Now, if you want labor to get big raises too, you have to convince the consumer to pay full price for American made, and good luck doing that. You can't have made in China low prices and high American pay for labor, and I'll tell you right now, if you force companies to pay for American labor, they'll find ways to automate and cut job costs.

 

[sealybobo]

If they lower costs and get pay raises, the consumer doesn't pay, and outsourcing cuts costs. Now, if you want labor to get big raises too, you have to convince the consumer to pay full price for American made, and good luck doing that. You can't have made in China low prices and high American pay for labor, and I'll tell you right now, if you force companies to pay for American labor, they'll find ways to automate and cut job costs.

We have 10 million unfilled jobs. Go ahead and cut jobs.

 

[hadit]

My dad is almost 80 and healthy thank god. Doesn't seem like America today wants us middle class people to get any inheritances when our parents die. Look how much senior living costs? They'll gobble up all the money quickly as they cost anywhere from $5K to $25K a month. Insane! And even the expensive ones are understaffed and shit holes.

You know how obscenely expensive senior living is? I tried to google what the average cost was and google wouldn't tell me. All that came up were senior living places. You click on them and they don't say either. You have to call. Like timeshares they want to rope you in. They don't tell you the true cost until they got you interested.

There has to be a better way. Like a condo that is only for seniors but they have a nurse, handy man, etc. Everything they need but not $5000 a month. Why do senior living places have to be so fucking expensive?

They're expensive because seniors need care, many 24/7/365, and quality care is expensive. Nurses need to be paid well, then there are food costs, doctor visits, security. These things cost more for seniors because they can't do most of them for themselves. There is a better way, but not one that Americans won't embrace it any more. That is for the children to take care of their parents as the parents age. That's the way it's been done worldwide for millennia, and it's only been since about WWII that Americans have shipped their parents off for someone else to take care of.

 

[hadit]

We have 10 million unfilled jobs. Go ahead and cut jobs.

Hate to tell you this, but those unfilled jobs give Labor a big weapon to use in negotiations., Eliminate them and that leverage goes away. Do you want to return to a job market where workers can't find jobs and compete for lower wages?

 

[initforme]

So if we pay people more that's bad, yet if we offer current wages people can't live on them. Caught between a rock and a bad place.

 

[hadit]

So if we pay people more that's bad, yet if we offer current wages people can't live on them. Caught between a rock and a bad place.

It comes down to what the consumer will pay. If one company pays higher wages and has higher prices than another company, which do you think the consumers will buy from? The consumer drives the whole thing. If enough demand that everything be made in America and workers get high pay, that's what they will get, and pay for. If, OTOH, the consumer demands the lowest prices possible, the American worker won't get the work, either a robot or a foreign worker will.

 

[sealybobo]

If they lower costs and get pay raises, the consumer doesn't pay, and outsourcing cuts costs. Now, if you want labor to get big raises too, you have to convince the consumer to pay full price for American made, and good luck doing that. You can't have made in China low prices and high American pay for labor, and I'll tell you right now, if you force companies to pay for American labor, they'll find ways to automate and cut job costs.

How come back in the 70's a person working at a grocery store could raise a family of 4? My aunt worked at a store called Farmer Jack. Unionized. They were paid well. Today those jobs don't exist. If you work at Public or Walmart chances are you make under $15 hour.

Back then waiters could afford a family. That doesn't exist anymore.

I bet back in the day Front Desk workers at hotels could raise a family. Today that's a college kids job. Certainly doesn't pay well.

Just seems like a race to the bottom. And now you republicans are trying to tell us we shouldn't go to college because it's unaffordable? That's your solution? Be a loser? Just like most people in red states like Kentucky?

West Virginia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas and Alabama. The least educated. Do we really want to become like them?

 

[hadit]

How come back in the 70's a person working at a grocery store could raise a family of 4? My aunt worked at a store called Farmer Jack. Unionized. They were paid well. Today those jobs don't exist. If you work at Public or Walmart chances are you make under $15 hour.

Back then waiters could afford a family. That doesn't exist anymore.

I bet back in the day Front Desk workers at hotels could raise a family. Today that's a college kids job. Certainly doesn't pay well.

Just seems like a race to the bottom. And now you republicans are trying to tell us we shouldn't go to college because it's unaffordable? That's your solution? Be a loser? Just like most people in red states like Kentucky?

West Virginia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas and Alabama. The least educated. Do we really want to become like them?

What happened is that costs went out of control as the government pumped more and more money into the system to the point that inflation destroyed the value of the dollar. At the same time, foreign competition undercut the American workers' inflated salary base and they just couldn't compete anymore. There was just no way we could keep the high wages after the rest of the world rebuilt their destroyed manufacturing capabilities and started cranking out cheap goods and we still can't. You seem to think companies are just bottomless pits of money that could jack pay through the roof, not raise prices, and keep on going like nothing happened. They can't. Labor is the biggest expense for companies, by far.

As for college, a student had BETTER take a hard look at whether he/she can recoup the massive investment it takes to get a degree. If you get one that allows you to pay off your student loans before you retire, great. If not, heck no, it's not worth the debt. You might be able to debate how male privilege is demonstrated in the way flowers grow with the best of them, but no one's going to pay you to do it. You'd be far better off going into a skilled trade and earn almost as much without the debt.

And why are you busting on states that have a great quality of life and don't have to post human crap maps? Here's a hint, no one wants to go to the urban schools of virtually every single major city in the US, and that's true for the bluest of the blue states.

 

[Red Front]

What happened is that costs went out of control as the government pumped more and more money into the system to the point that inflation destroyed the value of the dollar. At the same time, foreign competition undercut the American workers' inflated salary base and they just couldn't compete anymore. There was just no way we could keep the high wages after the rest of the world rebuilt their destroyed manufacturing capabilities and started cranking out cheap goods and we still can't. You seem to think companies are just bottomless pits of money that could jack pay through the roof, not raise prices, and keep on going like nothing happened. They can't. Labor is the biggest expense for companies, by far.

As for college, a student had BETTER take a hard look at whether he/she can recoup the massive investment it takes to get a degree. If you get one that allows you to pay off your student loans before you retire, great. If not, heck no, it's not worth the debt. You might be able to debate how male privilege is demonstrated in the way flowers grow with the best of them, but no one's going to pay you to do it. You'd be far better off going into a skilled trade and earn almost as much without the debt.

And why are you busting on states that have a great quality of life and don't have to post human crap maps? Here's a hint, no one wants to go to the urban schools of virtually every single major city in the US, and that's true for the bluest of the blue states.

What happened is that costs went out of control as the government pumped more and more money into the system to the point that inflation destroyed the value of the dollar.

What caused inflation during the pandemic, was the pandemic. Supply chain interruptions, the crisis itself made goods and services more expensive, and the lack of government control over prices. The measly "relief" checks did nothing to cause inflation. The government didn't "pump more and more money into the system".

At the same time, foreign competition undercut the American workers' inflated salary base and they just couldn't compete anymore.

It wasn't the "competition" in third-world countries that "forced" American capitalists to close factories in the US and move them to China and Mexico, it was their greed, lack of government oversight and regulation. The dismantling of labor unions in the 1980s and the deregulation incentivized and permitted American capitalists to move production abroad without any negative consequences. Taxes were reduced by Reagan from 70% to 28%, and he essentially rolled back all of the laws and regulations that made America the wealthiest nation on Earth, with the largest, best-paid middle-class in the industrialized world.

Reagan turned the US economy from being based on manufacturing the most sought-after, best-quality products in the world to wall street/finance, forcing well-paid, blue-collar, factory labor into the service sector.

There was just no way we could keep the high wages after the rest of the world rebuilt their destroyed manufacturing capabilities and started cranking out cheap goods and we still can't.

You're spewing nonsense. The US had more expensive products than China, India, and Bangladesh, but we had something they didn't. QUALITY. American products were considered the standard, due to their high quality. The only reason we lost over 60,000 factories in America and tens of millions of good-paying manufacturing jobs, was due to the greed of capitalists, seeking huge short-term profits, without weighing the long-term repercussions upon the American economy and working class.

You seem to think companies are just bottomless pits of money that could jack pay through the roof, not raise prices, and keep on going like nothing happened. They can't. Labor is the biggest expense for companies, by far.

High-paid labor = high-paying customers. The more American workers make, the more purchasing power they have, hence the more American capitalists make in the long term. The companies that closed their factories, moving them abroad, could've continued making a decent profit here in America, despite cheap, junk products from China. They built China into the monster it is today. These capitalists aren't true American patriots, they only serve mammon. Money and power (the bottom line).

Back in the 1950s until the early 80s, the highest-paid CEOs, made no more than 30, maybe 40 times the lowest wage in their companies. Today, CEOs make as much as 1000 times the lowest wage paid to their workers. That's the insatiable greed of these capitalists.

As for college, a student had BETTER take a hard look at whether he/she can recoup the massive investment it takes to get a degree. If you get one that allows you to pay off your student loans before you retire, great. If not, heck no, it's not worth the debt.

We can't compete with China, Russia, Western Europe and others, without a well educated, highly skilled, American workforce. The more educated and skilled the American citizenry is, the more prosperous and secure we are as a nation. Education from pre-school to PhD, should be tuition-free in all public schools. Vocational job training should also be tuition free:

Job Corps

www.dol.gov

Job Corps, should have ten times the funding, and the age cap should be eliminated. Any American or legal resident that wants to acquire a trade should have access to all of the services Job Corps has to offer. Whether they're 19 or 70+ years old. Now with CRISPR genetic engineering and other medical technologies, people are going to be in the workforce longer, due to the dramatic increase in life expectancy. People are going to live longer and hence might want to work in a new field, requiring another college degree or some vocational training.

You might be able to debate how male privilege is demonstrated in the way flowers grow with the best of them, but no one's going to pay you to do it. You'd be far better off going into a skilled trade and earn almost as much without the debt.

We need a broad spectrum of specialists, to effectively compete in the 21st century. Yes, we need carpenters, machinists, and people who know how to repair a car and a fridge, and likewise, we need doctors, surgeons, scientists, engineers, historians, scholars..etc.

And why are you busting on states that have a great quality of life and don't have to post human crap maps? Here's a hint, no one wants to go to the urban schools of virtually every single major city in the US, and that's true for the bluest of the blue states.

The poorest states in America are red states. They get the most assistance from Uncle Sam.

List of U.S. states and territories by income - Wikipedia

Archived: Pro-Democrat group says 9 of the 10 poorest states are Republican | PolitiFact

PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.

www.politifact.com

 

[Deadstick]

Here in the UK Conservative Governments have waged war on Unions for decades, made them out to be the devil, sad to say some of the public go along with the propaganda, the fact is through history every right that workers have won were not given to them by Employers, they were fought for over many years.

 

[sealybobo]

What happened is that costs went out of control as the government pumped more and more money into the system to the point that inflation destroyed the value of the dollar. At the same time, foreign competition undercut the American workers' inflated salary base and they just couldn't compete anymore. There was just no way we could keep the high wages after the rest of the world rebuilt their destroyed manufacturing capabilities and started cranking out cheap goods and we still can't. You seem to think companies are just bottomless pits of money that could jack pay through the roof, not raise prices, and keep on going like nothing happened. They can't. Labor is the biggest expense for companies, by far.

As for college, a student had BETTER take a hard look at whether he/she can recoup the massive investment it takes to get a degree. If you get one that allows you to pay off your student loans before you retire, great. If not, heck no, it's not worth the debt. You might be able to debate how male privilege is demonstrated in the way flowers grow with the best of them, but no one's going to pay you to do it. You'd be far better off going into a skilled trade and earn almost as much without the debt.

And why are you busting on states that have a great quality of life and don't have to post human crap maps? Here's a hint, no one wants to go to the urban schools of virtually every single major city in the US, and that's true for the bluest of the blue states.

Oh my dream is to have a child and have them grow up to be a....plumber

Plumber salary overview​

The median plumber salary is $59,880. The salary of a plumber varies with experience, and typically ranges from $36,700 to $59,880.

• Median Annual Salary: $55,160 ($26.52 per hour)
• Top 10% Annual Salary: $97,170 ($46.72 per hour)
• Bottom 10% Salary: $32,690 ($15.72 per hour)

Fuck that.

 

[Anathema]

I probably have a somewhat unique viewpoint on Labor vs Management.

In the 22 years I’ve worked for my employer (all in the same job role) I’ve spent 5 years as a Contractor, 3 years as a Non-Represented employee and now 14+ years as a Union member. I spent almost 10 years (and three contract negotiations) as a Union Steward. So I’ve seen the same job from pretty much every angle except Management.

Of the three, I will say this… there is not enough money or sufficient benefits to get me to leave the Union. Not even to join Management (I had that opportunity last year). That doesn’t mean I believe Unions are a utopian panacea.

Thankfully the Union (UWUA/BUW) that I belong to has a 50+ year history of working WITH the Company rather than AGAINST the Company. Both sides understand that this situation only works if we are BOTH willing to work with each other, compromise, and always remember that without each other neither of us gets anything done. I see so many Unions where that is forgotten, if they ever realized it in the first place.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You know how they say Capitalism is the worst ism except for all the other isms? It is not perfect. It relies on ditch diggers. Needs poor people to do the work.

And look at the debt. Yes, the rich can manipulate our economy and cause recessions even depressions when they want. If it wasn't all made up ponzi scheme, look at the debt. Wouldn't the debt be a big problem? But they say debt doesn't matter. Even though it doubles every 8 years.

And social security is going to RUN OUT of money in 10 years. Do you think everyone's going to just get fucked?

And they say we're broke but in the 2000's we figured out how to afford 2 20 year wars.

It's all made up. The feds may raise or lower interest rates.

Just remember our government is the ultimate referee. Is it working for all of us or just the rich?

"You Can't Govern if You Don't Believe in Government"

In a May 25, 2001 interview, Grover Norquist told National Public Radio's Mara Liasson, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." Norquist got his wish.

www.thomhartmann.com

Nobles Need Not Pay Taxes

A new aristocracy is taking over not just the United States of America but also the world. ... This is more than just a tax cut story.

www.thomhartmann.com

Since Reagan, it's been working mostly for the rich. And now we have a very pro rich Supreme Court for at least 2 generations.

The Who's-Your-Daddy Doomsday

Hereditary power causes incompetence and exclusion of the talented. Yet no one focuses on its historical destruction of every civilization there ever was, because we are influenced to hate our Daddies for not getting rich and spoiling us. That makes us wannabe richkids.

So we listen to irrelevant ideological nonsense, which is all from the Kennedy and Bush-type dynasties. Anyone born with a silver spoon in his mouth will always speak with a forked tongue. Inherited money talks, and that's all we hear.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

It comes down to what the consumer will pay. If one company pays higher wages and has higher prices than another company, which do you think the consumers will buy from? The consumer drives the whole thing. If enough demand that everything be made in America and workers get high pay, that's what they will get, and pay for. If, OTOH, the consumer demands the lowest prices possible, the American worker won't get the work, either a robot or a foreign worker will.

What Kind of Logic Can We Expect From Inferior Minds Who Get Business Degrees?

The consumer would be paying for the privilege of the corporation to make the same profit margin with increased labor costs. But prices will remain the same if management and investors take the cut. So the plutocrats' logic that they are defending the consumers comes from their conceited insistence that their cut of the revenue is set in stone. These Bizz Skule Bozos aren't user-friendly; they're creative-accounting friendly.