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and you advocate a society that gets to decide who is allowed to be educated?
Education is for everyone.
it will improve EVERYONE.
You just think you can control WHAT people gleen from education because you fear people
I bet most of those people of the future will be much better people than the OP
no matter what you do secularism will grow and grow and grow.
At some point man will heave god centered religion entirely for a more valid belief system
Geeezz....I was HOPING someone would post along that line...
Here is a lesson from history that may suggest that their view of simply 'knowledge' without wisdom, is short-sighted at the very least.
1. More details are emerging about Humam al-Balawi, the man who blew up seven intelligence agents in Afghanistan. By education and professional status, the Jordanian doctor is typical of recent suicidal attackers. The man accused of trying to blow up a plane on Christmas Day is a Nigerian graduate of the University of London. In the Fort Hood shootings, a Palestinian-American psychiatrist in the U.S. Army has been charged.
Humam al-Balawi was said to be carrying information about Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's number two, himself a surgeon who was born to a prominent Egyptian family.
Mohamed Atta of 9/11, who was an Egyptian urban planner who had been working in Germany - these are not the wretched of the earth. What essentially is the grievance that draws them to al-Qaida?
Groups Recruiting Well-Educated Terrorists : NPR
2. A recent study at Princeton University by Alan Krueger and Jitka Maleckova, called "Education, Poverty, Political Violence and Terrorism: Is There a Causal Connection?" argues this point. One piece of the Krueger-Maleckova evidence involves 129 members of Hezbollah who died in action, mostly against Israel, from 1982 to 1994. Hezbollah is now designated by the U.S. as a terrorist organization. Biographical information from the Hezbollah newspaper al-Ahd indicates that the fighters who died were, on average, more educated and less impoverished than the Lebanese population of comparable age and regional origin .Moreover, the Palestinians' adherence to the view that the mass murder of civilians was not terrorism was independent of education and higher among those working than unemployed. Hence, support for terrorism was not reduced by increases in education and income .a study by Charles Russell and Bowman Miller (reprinted in the 1983 book Perspectives on Terrorism) considered 18 revolutionary groups, including the Japanese Red Army, Germany's Baader-Meinhof Gang, and Italy's Red Brigades. The authors found that "the vast majority of those individuals involved in terrorist activities as cadres or leaders is quite well-educated. In fact, approximately two-thirds of those identified terrorists are persons with some university training, [and] well over two-thirds of these individuals came from the middle or upper classes in their respective nations or areas." BW Online | June 10, 2002 | The Myth That Poverty Breeds Terrorism
http://www.krueger.princeton.edu/terrorism2.pdf
3. men who belonged to violent Islamist groups active over the past few decades (some in jail, some not). Had those groups reflected the working-age populations of their countries, engineers would have made up about 3.5 percent of the membership. Instead, nearly 20 percent of the militants had engineering degrees. When Gambetta and Hertog looked at only the militants whose education was known for certain to have gone beyond high school, close to half (44 percent) had trained in engineering.
Today's Highly Educated Terrorists | The National Interest Blog
4. Pol Pot, was the leader of the Cambodian communist movement known as the Khmer Rouge[3] and was Prime Minister of Democratic Kampuchea from 19761979. Pol Pot's leadership, in which he attempted to "cleanse" the country, resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1.72.5 million people . he qualified for a scholarship that allowed for technical study in France. He studied radio electronics at the EFR in Paris from 1949 to 1953 Pol Pot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
5. Khmer Rouge leader Khieu Samphan, who had studied in Paris, wrote in his doctoral dissertation that the Cambodian economy and social structure would be renewed by tapping the dormant energy of the peasant mass against the cities.
Kissinger, The White House Years, p. 518.
6. Ernesto "Che" Guevara "the man was a mass killer. Hundreds were reportedly executed on his watch" Why Do people love a mass murder like Che? // Current
As a young boy growing up, he had a passion for education, literature and philosophy "he worked as a doctor. Che Guevara : Biography
7. Lenin was born Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, April 22, 1870 .In 1891 he passed the law examinations at the University of St. Petersburg as an external student, scoring first in his class. He practiced law briefly in Samara before devoting himself to the revolutionary movement. Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin), 1870-1924
8. Bashar al-Assad is the President of the Syrian Arab Republic, Regional Secretary of the Ba'ath Party, and the son of former President Hafez al-Assad. Al-Assad is a controversial figure both in Syria and Internationally for his disregard for human rights, economic lapses, sponsorship of terrorism, and corruption. Bashar studied ophthalmology at Damascus University 1988 and arrived in London in 1992 to continue his studies. Bashar al-Assad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Highly educated Leftists, smart guys all....
So, I'm wondering if our friends on the Left would like to claim any of these highly educated folks as their heroes?
I just love it when you walk into one like this!! BAM!
Now...actually, your lack of education plus your political perspective fits right in with the OP, doesn't it?
Glad you dropped by.
So, your point is that some villains were educated
You would have fit right in at Faber
If I ever need a brain transplant Id want yours .cause Id want one that had never been used.
So, your point is that some villains were educated
You would have fit right in at Faber
If I ever need a brain transplant Id want yours .cause Id want one that had never been used.
and you advocate a society that gets to decide who is allowed to be educated?
Education is for everyone.
it will improve EVERYONE.
You just think you can control WHAT people gleen from education because you fear people
no matter what you do secularism will grow and grow and grow.
At some point man will heave god centered religion entirely for a more valid belief system
So, your point is that some villains were educated
You would have fit right in at Faber
If I ever need a brain transplant Id want yours .cause Id want one that had never been used.
I like how this turned into a thread of liberals and conservatives attacking each other, nothing of which has to do with what the OP was getting at.
Wisdom, and the moralistic means to use knowledge acquired, isn't something you can force yourself to learn. Wisdom comes with time and life experiences. You can't be both young and wise, but you can be young and smart. You can also be smart and stupid at the same time.
The best example of this is simply looking at myself. I'm young, and I'm smart; really damn smart. I know a lot about a variety of subjects, some of which have practical applications, some of which don't. While I can apply some of my knowledge to life experiences smartly, I can't do it all yet, simply because I don't have the experience to apply that knowledge.
Mom calls it "book smart" and "street smart". I have a lot of the former, not a lot of the latter. It's why I tend to suffer from Foot-in-Mouth Syndrome.
I cut and pasted that all by myself.......wink
I like how this turned into a thread of liberals and conservatives attacking each other, nothing of which has to do with what the OP was getting at.
Wisdom, and the moralistic means to use knowledge acquired, isn't something you can force yourself to learn. Wisdom comes with time and life experiences. You can't be both young and wise, but you can be young and smart. You can also be smart and stupid at the same time.
The best example of this is simply looking at myself. I'm young, and I'm smart; really damn smart. I know a lot about a variety of subjects, some of which have practical applications, some of which don't. While I can apply some of my knowledge to life experiences smartly, I can't do it all yet, simply because I don't have the experience to apply that knowledge.
Mom calls it "book smart" and "street smart". I have a lot of the former, not a lot of the latter. It's why I tend to suffer from Foot-in-Mouth Syndrome.
no matter what you do secularism will grow and grow and grow.
At some point man will heave god centered religion entirely for a more valid belief system
Man will always have faith in God. Because He is the Father of all mankind.
You don't understand faith in God which is why you will never figure out why you cant snuff it out.
Define knowledge and wisdom...So, to rebut my post, a board member quoted a Harvard social science Ph.D ..That is a failure to realize that the longer one spends in university in the social sciences, the less wisdom one has! More knowledge, perhaps ..but less wisdom.
And what of the all of the enlightenment philosophers that dealt with ethics? Spinoza, Kant, Hobbes et al. If you are going to piss on the Enlightenment at least get your facts to resemble reality.1. We have the Enlightenment, and, concomitant, the French Revolution, to thank for the concept that reason should be the guiding principle of life. To clarify, that means reason to the exclusion of morality.
You piss on the Enlightenment only to use Hume's is-ought gap?Early on, reason had been regarded as a powerful tool for knowing truth, goodness, and beauty. But, with the Enlightenment, and the split that emerged between facts and values, only the kind of reason associated with science was considered appropriate to understand and control the world.
Oh the irony.. You realise many of the enlightenment philosophers said just this.2. But reason cannot indicate which uses of nature, of the world, are good or humane. Reason may point us in the direction of achieving our goals, but cannot determine which goals are right to pursue in the first place: it ascertains what we can do, but not what we should do. What works, but not what is good. Facts, but not values.
3. Consider this concrete example of the above:
Was it the reason associated with science, or was it moral values that produced poison gas, barbed wire, high explosives, experiments in eugenics, the formula for Zyklon B, heavy artillery, pseudo-scientific justifications for mass murder, cluster bombs,
attack submarines, napalm, inter continental ballistic missiles, military space platforms, and nuclear weapons? Which was it?
Berlinski, The Devils Delusion
There are several ways of doing that without invoking the supernatural.. Moral realism, ethical nihilism, ethical hedonism, ethical humanism, value ethics.4. If you are a philosophical naturalist (="nature" is all that there is), then what sense do you make of ethics? Is morality natural?
This usually is not the POV among naturalists.s the philosopher Simon Blackburn puts it in his Ruling Passions, the problem is one of finding room for ethics, or of placing ethics within the disenchanted, non-ethical order which we inhabit, and of which we are a part. "The task before us is to try to squeeze morality into the disenchanted natural world; as Blackburn says, this is above all to refuse appeal to a supernatural order. (i.e., God)
John Piippo: Naturalistic Ethics & Boiling Babies for Fun
a. But, examples of morality intrinsic in nature are as rare as hens teeth. What is left? "God is the source of morality, because morality is grounded in the character of God the moral law is a feature of Gods nature. Morality, is ultimately grounded in the perfect nature of God." (Ibid.)
a. I would disagree I like to keep politics and morality separate.a. 5.Princeton philosopher Richard Rorty noted the change in authorship of morality: The West has cobbled together, in the course of the last two hundred years, a specifically secularist moral tradition one that regards the free consensus of the citizens of a democratic society, rather then the Divine Will, as the source of moral imperatives. Last Words from Richard Rorty | The Progressive
b. While Rorty considered this a great advance, consider how this fits the actions of Nazi Germany, in tune with its free consensus.
Define knowledge and wisdom...So, to rebut my post, a board member quoted a Harvard social science Ph.D…..That is a failure to realize that the longer one spends in university in the social sciences, the less wisdom one has! More knowledge, perhaps…..but less wisdom.
And what of the all of the enlightenment philosophers that dealt with ethics? Spinoza, Kant, Hobbes et al. If you are going to piss on the Enlightenment at least get your facts to resemble reality.1. We have the Enlightenment, and, concomitant, the French Revolution, to thank for the concept that ‘reason’ should be the guiding principle of life. To clarify, that means ‘reason’ to the exclusion of morality.
You piss on the Enlightenment only to use Hume's is-ought gap?
Oh the irony.. You realise many of the enlightenment philosophers said just this.
Scientifically possible =/= ethical... Hardly a ground breaking statement. Your point.
There are several ways of doing that without invoking the supernatural.. Moral realism, ethical nihilism, ethical hedonism, ethical humanism, value ethics.
This usually is not the POV among naturalists.
a. But, examples of morality intrinsic in nature are as rare as hens teeth. What is left? "God is the source of morality, because morality is grounded in the character of God… the moral law is a feature of God’s nature. Morality, …is ultimately grounded in the perfect nature of God." (Ibid.)
The euthyphro dilemma reveals the absurdity in that view point.
a. I would disagree I like to keep politics and morality separate.a. 5.Princeton philosopher Richard Rorty noted the change in authorship of morality: “The West has cobbled together, in the course of the last two hundred years, a specifically secularist moral tradition — one that regards the free consensus of the citizens of a democratic society, rather then the Divine Will, as the source of moral imperatives.” Last Words from Richard Rorty | The Progressive
b. While Rorty considered this a great advance, consider how this fits the actions of Nazi Germany, in tune with its free consensus.
b. *cough* Godwin's law *cough* Lazy and inaccurate comparison.
Define knowledge and wisdom...So, to rebut my post, a board member quoted a Harvard social science Ph.D ..That is a failure to realize that the longer one spends in university in the social sciences, the less wisdom one has! More knowledge, perhaps ..but less wisdom.
And what of the all of the enlightenment philosophers that dealt with ethics? Spinoza, Kant, Hobbes et al. If you are going to piss on the Enlightenment at least get your facts to resemble reality.1. We have the Enlightenment, and, concomitant, the French Revolution, to thank for the concept that reason should be the guiding principle of life. To clarify, that means reason to the exclusion of morality.
My fact are correct.
Work on your reading comprehension.
You piss on the Enlightenment only to use Hume's is-ought gap?
Oh the irony.. You realise many of the enlightenment philosophers said just this.
Scientifically possible =/= ethical... Hardly a ground breaking statement. Your point.
There are several ways of doing that without invoking the supernatural.. Moral realism, ethical nihilism, ethical hedonism, ethical humanism, value ethics.
This usually is not the POV among naturalists.
a. But, examples of morality intrinsic in nature are as rare as hens teeth. What is left? "God is the source of morality, because morality is grounded in the character of God the moral law is a feature of Gods nature. Morality, is ultimately grounded in the perfect nature of God." (Ibid.)
The euthyphro dilemma reveals the absurdity in that view point.
a. I would disagree I like to keep politics and morality separate.a. 5.Princeton philosopher Richard Rorty noted the change in authorship of morality: The West has cobbled together, in the course of the last two hundred years, a specifically secularist moral tradition one that regards the free consensus of the citizens of a democratic society, rather then the Divine Will, as the source of moral imperatives. Last Words from Richard Rorty | The Progressive
b. While Rorty considered this a great advance, consider how this fits the actions of Nazi Germany, in tune with its free consensus.
b. *cough* Godwin's law *cough* Lazy and inaccurate comparison.
