Killer sets trap, says its "stand your ground"

[Skull Pilot]

This man will get life, it's that simple. You leave your door open, it's an invitation to come in. That's the way it's been in this country and many others for generations.

Sadly nobody seems to know that today. Obviously they've never grown up visiting their neighbors, walking down the beach or the street and stopping in to introduce themselves to the new arrivals. They don't even know what real socialization is and probably can't maintain a conversation in person for more than a minute.

Really? I'm in my 40s and have never ever once walked into a person's home simply because the door was open even if I knew them.

I really don't care if you assume an open door or an open window is an invitation. Unless I look at you and tell you to come in to my home you are not invited in.

Not a window, a door. Did you never go to college? You leave the door open to your room, it's an invitation. It tells people you are not studying and you are open to company. If you leave the door open on your house, it's an invitation. That you don't recognize that is your problem. If the person who sees it open recognizes it and you shoot them, you are going to jail for murder.

There is a big difference between this story and the man in MN who shot two teens who broke into his home.

My house isn't a college dorm room

My house is my property and you are not allowed on my property without my permission.

 

[LoneLaugher]

As long as I'm strong enough when the time comes to drop a threat within my home.

Hope they weren't looking for skittles

-Geaux

Oooooh! "Drop a threat!" You are so fucking cool!

Ooooh! Defending criminals! You are not cool. Loser.

You have not seen me defend a criminal. Try again, dummy.

 

[KissMy]

Like we didn't see this coming.

Its a shame that we value things more than we value human lives.

I don't want my belongings stolen but no way is my TV worth more than a human life.

[MENTION=32558]Luddly Neddite[/MENTION]

What if what they stole was the culmination of your entire life's work & you were depending on it to live? Would they not have taken your life or a large chunk of it?

 

[Ernie S.]

So if you leave your garage door open, anyone now has a right to come in and steal whatever they can see.

And since you left the door open you can't defend yourself or your property.

What if it's half open?

One day I saw that the girl next door had left her keys in the door.

Tell me... does that give anyone free rights to everything? Lucky her roommate girl was home, and fixed the problem.

What if she hadn't been? Can they empty her house? Or maybe even if she was there, is that free game?

Seriously, if leaving a door open makes all attempts to stop a criminal illegal.... where does that end? Idiots always defending the criminals and attacking the victims. I hate leftists.

Oh please, I didn't say you can't defend your property. I said an open door is an invitation and you can't shoot someone just for walking in the open door. I have no problems with shooting someone who is stealing from you, none at all. IMO if you are committing a crime you give up all your rights. Walking in an open door is not a crime.

Keep in mind, I think the guy in MN should get off. He shot kids who'd broken into his home.

If I was to walk through an open door, #1, it would only be a close friend and #2, I would be shouting my name as I walked in. My partner would shoot me, and I would shoot him if we walked in unannounced.

 

[Ernie S.]

I live at the end of a dirt road. No one has any business down here unless they are coming to visit or rob me.
This time of year, the doors are frequently wide open and the guns are always loaded.

 

[Gracie]

Leaving your front door open is an invitation for anyone to just walk in??? Since when? I have never heard of such a thing.

 

[Political Junky]

Kaarma is going down for murder. He set out to kill someone ... anyone.

 

[Politico]

An open door is either an invitation to come in or a warning that something is wrong. You won't know which until you go in and check.

There is a big difference between breaking into someone's home and walking in an open door.

Are you an idiot? An open door could be me letting the cool breeze in. If you want to be stupid enough to walk in don't expect to walk out.

If you don't want someone walking into your home, lock the door. There are locking screen doors so you can let the breeze in and still have a locked door. You leave your door wide open, you are asking people to walk right in. Not sure where you grew up, but that's classic manners right there. An open door is an invitation.

I defended the guy in MN who shot the teens that broke into his home. There is no defense when you leave your door open.

So you are an idiot. If I leave my door open it is not an invitation. In order to walk in my door you would have to have been spying on me with binoculars in order to see a door is open. Then you would have to trespass on my property and walk 100 yards to get to it. If you want to do that expect your dumb busybody ass to go out feet first.

 

[Andylusion]

Kaarma is going down for murder. He set out to kill someone ... anyone.

Anyone? Really? He was just going to kill anyone?

Seung-Hui Cho, at Virgina Tech, was trying to kill anyone.
Adam Lanza, at Newtown, Connecticut, was trying to kill anyone.
Nidal Malik Hasan, at Fort Hood, was trying to kill anyone.

This guy, was on a couch.... with his wife. He *ONLY* shot and killed someone burglarizing his home.

He may go down for murder, and he may not. But don't spew BS about him wanting to kill anyone. He wanted to kill a criminal. I don't have problem with that. Quite frankly, I think we need to kill a lot more criminals.

 

[jon_berzerk]

And if you leave your door open, you are inviting people to come in.

No I'm not.

I am simply leaving my door open.

Don't assume what the intentions of anther are. It's a good way to get dead.

If you are not invited into a person's house you do not enter under any circumstances.

Yes, it is that simple.

If you leave your door open and someone walks in and you shoot them, you are going to jail for murder. There is no stand your ground defense for that. You were not threatened by anyone. You invited them into your home and then shot them.

There is no stand your ground defense for that.

lets clarify terms

when you are in your home

stand you ground is never the issue

when you are in your home

the castle doctrine is the correct term

 

[Againsheila]

I live at the end of a dirt road. No one has any business down here unless they are coming to visit or rob me.
This time of year, the doors are frequently wide open and the guns are always loaded.

And if you shoot someone who walks into your home through an open door, you will go to jail for murder. Think! There are people out there with special needs. Supposing an autistic man who can't talk walks into your home and you shoot him? Supposing it's you friends daughter who was sent over, she found the door open and can't yell out to you because she's got laryngitis? THINK! You cannot shoot someone for simply walking in an open door. And I'm really impressed with myself, I just spelled laryngitis without spell check.

 

[Againsheila]

Are you an idiot? An open door could be me letting the cool breeze in. If you want to be stupid enough to walk in don't expect to walk out.

If you don't want someone walking into your home, lock the door. There are locking screen doors so you can let the breeze in and still have a locked door. You leave your door wide open, you are asking people to walk right in. Not sure where you grew up, but that's classic manners right there. An open door is an invitation.

I defended the guy in MN who shot the teens that broke into his home. There is no defense when you leave your door open.

So you are an idiot. If I leave my door open it is not an invitation. In order to walk in my door you would have to have been spying on me with binoculars in order to see a door is open. Then you would have to trespass on my property and walk 100 yards to get to it. If you want to do that expect your dumb busybody ass to go out feet first.

An autistic teenager was let off at the wrong stop. He walks down your road and sees your door open and walks in, he can't talk. You shoot him dead, you are going to jail for murder.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I live at the end of a dirt road. No one has any business down here unless they are coming to visit or rob me.
This time of year, the doors are frequently wide open and the guns are always loaded.

And if you shoot someone who walks into your home through an open door, you will go to jail for murder. Think! There are people out there with special needs. Supposing an autistic man who can't talk walks into your home and you shoot him? Supposing it's you friends daughter who was sent over, she found the door open and can't yell out to you because she's got laryngitis? THINK! You cannot shoot someone for simply walking in an open door. And I'm really impressed with myself, I just spelled laryngitis without spell check.

Cite some cases where a person was charged with murder and convicted when someone just walked in through an open door was shot and killed.

 

[Againsheila]

I live at the end of a dirt road. No one has any business down here unless they are coming to visit or rob me.
This time of year, the doors are frequently wide open and the guns are always loaded.

And if you shoot someone who walks into your home through an open door, you will go to jail for murder. Think! There are people out there with special needs. Supposing an autistic man who can't talk walks into your home and you shoot him? Supposing it's you friends daughter who was sent over, she found the door open and can't yell out to you because she's got laryngitis? THINK! You cannot shoot someone for simply walking in an open door. And I'm really impressed with myself, I just spelled laryngitis without spell check.

Cite some cases where a person was charged with murder and convicted when someone just walked in through an open door was shot and killed.

I can site a case where a man was charged and convicted of murder for shooting two teenagers who actually broke into his house, is that good enough?

And for the record, I think that was wrong. Walking in through an open door is totally different than breaking into a home.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this guy's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

And if it were your house?

 

[thereisnospoon]

He can't set booby traps. Doesn't count. He doesn't stand a chance but what is with German kids stealing shit?

Actually you can.....Now I will explain...Long ago I had a friend whose parents owned a cabin in a nearby rural area. There were a rash of break ins to properties in the area.
Some homes were burglarized. Some were burned.
My friend's dad rigged up a booby trap. He placed an unloaded shot gun just inside the front door. He wired up an alarm system so that if anyone entered the premises, the shot gun was an attraction. When the thief picked up the gun, the alarm which was silent would send a signal to the local police station. Of course my friend's dad informed the police of the alarm.
Well guess what? It worked. Some scum bag broke in, picked up the shot gun. A short time later he was in handcuffs. Turns out the guy was part of a group that was breaking into these vacation properties. To save himself some time in prison, he ratted out his friends.
The funny part of this was the criminal actually got a lawyer to present a defense that he was entrapped. That but for the presence of the rigged weapon, the cops would not have caught him. Shot down in flames.

 

[thereisnospoon]

in the news stories you have no idea why the kid went into the garage. he may well have been intending to burglarize the place. he may not have..

Pretty stupid thing to do. Trespassing and all.

you've never closed your neighbor's garage door when they accidentally left it open at night?
you're right, i don't. just as the shooter had no idea what was in the mind of the kid, because he blindly shot into the dark.

your material possessions are not worth the life of anyone

Bullshit. I have the right to defend my property. Don't steal shit and you won't have a problem. You're free to allow thugs to take from you but you have no right to impose that nonsense on others.

it's not nonsense. your property is not worth another human life. it just isn't. your property can be replaced. or has nobody told you that they're just things and you can't take it with you?

Hey genius....Self defense with deadly force requires ONLY that a person had a reasonable belief that limb or life is in imminent danger.

 

[thereisnospoon]

So if you leave your garage door open, anyone now has a right to come in and steal whatever they can see.

And since you left the door open you can't defend yourself or your property.

What if it's half open?

defense of property does not allow you to use unreasonable force. which this guy clearly did. case for at least 100 years and codified law make this very clear.

the most famous case is the spring loaded shotgun case. a guy put a spring loaded shotgun in his house so that if anyone opened the door, they would be shot. he wasn't even home. he claimed he was defending his property. he lost.

Yeah....Ya can't rig your house with weapons. Although it's done a lot. Especially in rural areas where break ins and home invasions are frequent.
This is a touchy subject.
IN a world with increasingly brazen criminals who think nothing of entering a home even with the occupants there, feeling absolutely no fear of the occupants or the law, we are frustrated at the system because it is incapable of protecting our rights, we are compelled to defend ourselves.
And in many places, juries are unwilling to convict people charged when the defense presents a self defense argument. The reason is in every jury is a person who owns a home and either has been a crime victim in their home or knows someone who has. They think to themselves, "what if it were my house?"....There's your acquittal.

 

[thereisnospoon]

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this thief's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

If...a big if...this guy "set a trap", that is indeed wrong, but let's not forget the motherfucker that was attempting take what didn't belong to him...m'kay?

in the news stories you have no idea why the kid went into the garage. he may well have been intending to burglarize the place. he may not have.

the asshole that shot him didn't wait to see. he decided that he'd rather shoot an unarmed kid than lose... what exactly?

your material possessions are not worth the life of anyone.

Could be he was trying to sell something or had a real reason to talk to the guy. With the garage open he might have gone in there first looking for him.

HA!...entering the garage without the consent of a person authorized to be in the house is the same as walking through the front door.
Of course if someone did that here, my two labs would not be very welcoming. If the guy got his ass bitten off...His fucking problem. Shouldn't have gone into MY garage.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Man Who Set A Trap To Kill 17-Year-Old Intruder Invokes Stand Your Ground-Like Defense | ThinkProgress

Seventeen-year-old Diren Dede lost his life Sunday, while in Missoula, Montana on a high school exchange program from Germany. He was shot dead at the home of Markus Kaarma, after Kaarma set a trap for intruders by intentionally leaving the garage open and placing a purse in clear view.

After motion sensors detected someone in the garage, Kaarma shot Dede. And while he has since been charged with first degree murder, he is already invoking a Stand Your Ground-like defense.

Kaarma is not the first to claim he was justified in killing someone after setting a trap. A Minnesota jury rejected Byron Smith’s argument that he was standing his ground when he made it look as though he wasn’t home, and waited in the basement with food and water until two teen intruders descended, and he shot them dead. Audio recorded by Smith depicted him toying with the victims after he shot them, according to the New York Daily News, saying “you’re dead.” He also likened them to “vermin.”

Like we didn't see this coming.

Its a shame that we value things more than we value human lives.

I don't want my belongings stolen but no way is my TV worth more than a human life.

Next it will be psychos inviting people into their house, killing them, and claiming they broke in.

Why would one enter a home of some they did not know?