Keep that Atheism to Yourself

[PratchettFan]

It seems you have a better grasp on the concept than I do, PF

So I have a question for you. Let say Students decided to form a prayer group in a public school. It is led and organized by the students and no school employee is aiding them.

What do you think the school or school board would do to such a group?

Hopefully, they would say, "You're here to learn, not to pray. Get back to work!"

There is more to learning than reading a textbook. When kids get out of school they are going to have to operate in society. The ability to discuss and understand different points of views and beliefs is part of that. Banning an entire aspect of society is a serious mistake.

 

[PostmodernProph]

It seems you have a better grasp on the concept than I do, PF

So I have a question for you. Let say Students decided to form a prayer group in a public school. It is led and organized by the students and no school employee is aiding them.

What do you think the school or school board would do to such a group?

if they wanted to comply with the Constitution and recent court rulings they would do nothing......

 

[JoeB131]

There is more to learning than reading a textbook. When kids get out of school they are going to have to operate in society. The ability to discuss and understand different points of views and beliefs is part of that. Banning an entire aspect of society is a serious mistake.

Religion should be gotten rid of and replaced with nothing.

BUt to the point. They have churches they can go to. Schools are for learning.

 

[dblack]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

/shrugs.....its not as if anyone does......did the police drag you to a church recently and baptize you against your will?......

It happens quite a lot actually.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Not what you thought, was it? Most likely you thought this thread would be riddled with a hateful, expletive filled rant railing against Atheists. Well, being a Christian, I support free thought and free expression; even if it doesn't involve people of my faith. But I digress.

What if Christians scrutinized Atheists, and then tried to use the force of law to ban their beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions? Or in public for that matter? What if they strove to have the government take down monuments paying homage to their beliefs on government property?

Let's suppose the shoe was on the other foot. Let's also suppose Atheists today were put in a situation where they weren't allowed to express themselves freely in or around schools or government property. The statement below is purely a supposition, being the direct antithesis of the way those of the Christian faith are treated by proponents of Atheism:

You may not employ Atheism at school sanctioned events, you may only discuss it amongst yourselves. All beliefs must be recognized but yours. You aren't allowed to publicly express a belief that is offensive to others on our property. Likewise, you cannot spread promotional material and hold demonstrations on the campuses of colleges that receive government grants; henceforth, your right to free speech is inconsequential. You cannot use terms unique to your beliefs. You won't be allowed to wear t-shirts that say "there are no gods" or "There is no God." Furthermore, any symbolism related to such a belief may not be used, nor be sanctioned by school officials.

As it relates to you, the Constitutional right to free expression does not apply while you tread the halls of a schoolhouse.

Those who erect any monuments paying homage to Atheism on our property will be forced to tear them down. We support diversity, and are not behooved to show partiality to one belief or another. Well, that is except for you.

Sound familiar? I bet a lot of Atheists would react in a similar manner as Christians do today if they were arbitrarily denied the ability to share the beliefs with others, or openly practice them while being a member of an educational institution. Most likely, they wouldn't like it if they were targeted time after time for what they believe.

This whining is unsurprisingly ignorant and ridiculous.

The “the force of law” is not being used to “ban” Christian beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions. Christians are at liberty to express their beliefs in any public venue they wish in accordance with Establishment Clause jurisprudence.

It's when Christians violate that Establishment Clause jurisprudence – either as a consequence of their ignorance or arrogance – that they run afoul of the Constitution's prohibition of conjoining church and state.

All Christians need to do is respect the rule of law and understand when religious expression in government is appropriate and when it is not; when Christians are indeed in violation of the First Amendment and are lawfully compelled to discontinue religious expression repugnant to the Constitution, the blame rests solely with Christians.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

There is no "ban" on religious expression on government property.

The only thing "banned" is the government itself "expressing" any religion.

This entire thread is a straw man.

 

[rightwinger]

Not what you thought, was it? Most likely you thought this thread would be riddled with a hateful, expletive filled rant railing against Atheists. Well, being a Christian, I support free thought and free expression; even if it doesn't involve people of my faith. But I digress.

What if Christians scrutinized Atheists, and then tried to use the force of law to ban their beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions? Or in public for that matter? What if they strove to have the government take down monuments paying homage to their beliefs on government property?

Let's suppose the shoe was on the other foot. Let's also suppose Atheists today were put in a situation where they weren't allowed to express themselves freely in or around schools or government property. The statement below is purely a supposition, being the direct antithesis of the way those of the Christian faith are treated by proponents of Atheism:

You may not employ Atheism at school sanctioned events, you may only discuss it amongst yourselves. All beliefs must be recognized but yours. You aren't allowed to publicly express a belief that is offensive to others on our property. Likewise, you cannot spread promotional material and hold demonstrations on the campuses of colleges that receive government grants; henceforth, your right to free speech is inconsequential. You cannot use terms unique to your beliefs. You won't be allowed to wear t-shirts that say "there are no gods" or "There is no God." Furthermore, any symbolism related to such a belief may not be used, nor be sanctioned by school officials.

As it relates to you, the Constitutional right to free expression does not apply while you tread the halls of a schoolhouse.

Those who erect any monuments paying homage to Atheism on our property will be forced to tear them down. We support diversity, and are not behooved to show partiality to one belief or another. Well, that is except for you.

Sound familiar? I bet a lot of Atheists would react in a similar manner as Christians do today if they were arbitrarily denied the ability to share the beliefs with others, or openly practice them while being a member of an educational institution. Most likely, they wouldn't like it if they were targeted time after time for what they believe.

Atheists are allowed to teach there is no God in schools?

 

[rightwinger]

Mommy........Teacher told me there is no Jesus today

 

[PostmodernProph]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

/shrugs.....its not as if anyone does......did the police drag you to a church recently and baptize you against your will?......

It happens quite a lot actually.

uh, no....

 

[dblack]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

/shrugs.....its not as if anyone does......did the police drag you to a church recently and baptize you against your will?......

It happens quite a lot actually.

uh, no....

So when we ban smoking? Or tell racists that can't discriminate? Or tell people they have to buy insurance? - all of these are examples.

 

[PostmodernProph]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

/shrugs.....its not as if anyone does......did the police drag you to a church recently and baptize you against your will?......

It happens quite a lot actually.

uh, no....

So when we ban smoking? Or tell racists that can't discriminate? Or tell people they have to buy insurance? - all of these are examples.

dude, we're talking about Christians imposing their beliefs on others......we don't tell people to buy insurance.....

 

[dblack]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

/shrugs.....its not as if anyone does......did the police drag you to a church recently and baptize you against your will?......

It happens quite a lot actually.

uh, no....

So when we ban smoking? Or tell racists that can't discriminate? Or tell people they have to buy insurance? - all of these are examples.

dude, we're talking about Christians imposing their beliefs on others......we don't tell people to buy insurance.....

Apparently you don't drive a car. Or have never heard of ACA. Hmmm

 

[JakeStarkey]

"What if Christians scrutinized Atheists, and then tried to use the force of law to ban their beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions?"

You have never involved with East Texas public education, have you?

The fact is this: both sides are in all out war against each other.

 

[PratchettFan]

There is more to learning than reading a textbook. When kids get out of school they are going to have to operate in society. The ability to discuss and understand different points of views and beliefs is part of that. Banning an entire aspect of society is a serious mistake.

Religion should be gotten rid of and replaced with nothing.

BUt to the point. They have churches they can go to. Schools are for learning.

I get you don't approve of any but your own beliefs being allowed. However, theocracies really don't work so I think I prefer freedom. Burning books messes up the environment.

Yes, schools are for learning. Part of that learning is how to interact and get along with others. When they get out into the world they are going to meet people of different beliefs, even people who think they shouldn't be allowed to have their own beliefs, and learning how to deal with that is a good thing. But, more importantly, in this country they have the right to express their beliefs. It's in the Constitution. Really. First Amendment.

 

[JoeB131]

I get you don't approve of any but your own beliefs being allowed. However, theocracies really don't work so I think I prefer freedom. Burning books messes up the environment.

Yes, schools are for learning. Part of that learning is how to interact and get along with others. When they get out into the world they are going to meet people of different beliefs, even people who think they shouldn't be allowed to have their own beliefs, and learning how to deal with that is a good thing. But, more importantly, in this country they have the right to express their beliefs. It's in the Constitution. Really. First Amendment.

Again, I don't think something is good just because some slave-rapist thought it was a good idea 230 years ago.

These clowns also thought that Phrenology was a science, bleeding people was a legitimate medical treatment and slavery was just nifty.

Religion has never done anything good not once in the whole of human history, not even by accident. The sooner we get rid of it, the better. It has no place in schools.

 

[PratchettFan]

I get you don't approve of any but your own beliefs being allowed. However, theocracies really don't work so I think I prefer freedom. Burning books messes up the environment.

Yes, schools are for learning. Part of that learning is how to interact and get along with others. When they get out into the world they are going to meet people of different beliefs, even people who think they shouldn't be allowed to have their own beliefs, and learning how to deal with that is a good thing. But, more importantly, in this country they have the right to express their beliefs. It's in the Constitution. Really. First Amendment.

Again, I don't think something is good just because some slave-rapist thought it was a good idea 230 years ago.

These clowns also thought that Phrenology was a science, bleeding people was a legitimate medical treatment and slavery was just nifty.

Religion has never done anything good not once in the whole of human history, not even by accident. The sooner we get rid of it, the better. It has no place in schools.

Interesting. I guess you'll have to bite the bullet and live with it.

 

[PostmodernProph]

/shrugs.....its not as if anyone does......did the police drag you to a church recently and baptize you against your will?......

It happens quite a lot actually.

uh, no....

So when we ban smoking? Or tell racists that can't discriminate? Or tell people they have to buy insurance? - all of these are examples.

dude, we're talking about Christians imposing their beliefs on others......we don't tell people to buy insurance.....

Apparently you don't drive a car. Or have never heard of ACA. Hmmm

so tell me, bright one....is car insurance Roman Catholic or Protestant?.....

 

[dblack]

It happens quite a lot actually.

uh, no....

So when we ban smoking? Or tell racists that can't discriminate? Or tell people they have to buy insurance? - all of these are examples.

dude, we're talking about Christians imposing their beliefs on others......we don't tell people to buy insurance.....

Apparently you don't drive a car. Or have never heard of ACA. Hmmm

so tell me, bright one....is car insurance Roman Catholic or Protestant?.....

You seem to be having difficulty tracking the conversation. Perhaps a quick re-read would give you context.

 

[JoeB131]

Interesting. I guess you'll have to bite the bullet and live with it.

Yup. But that will include mocking it at every oppurtunity and keeping it the fuck off the public square.

 

[PratchettFan]

Interesting. I guess you'll have to bite the bullet and live with it.

Yup. But that will include mocking it at every oppurtunity and keeping it the fuck off the public square.

The First Amendment guarantees you the right to mock what you please. At the same time, it gives others the right to put it on the public square and not really give a damn what you mock.