Just posted in introductions - Feedback on exchange?

[Justforfun000]

Here's a conversation with a good friend of the family. I admit to be democrat leaning...and I am totally open to listen to all sides and opinions and I actually agree with many Republican positions..I'm probably a bit of a fiscal conservative..but anyway I expect this site to teach me a lot more extensively. I'm new to truly delving into politics and passionate about learning so please show me where I may be wrong and what you think is a good take on things if I have it already..

So consider that I posted this on another (non-political) forum and I hadn't got any good responses yet. Just thought of looking for a true political discussion forum. So here I am!

"Ok, this is an email exchange with a very good family friend who is like an aunt to me. She's Canadian but winters in Florida and I've already had a brief exchange with her about her opinion on Romney and the economy.

(Her words)
"I'm on the smart side....rein in that government... give some incentives to the wealthy to get involved in business.... and get the people working...nobody opts to be poor and there's nothing wrong with making a profit as long you use fair labour practices"

"I am passionate about the American elections that are coming up soon and have strong opinions, mostly based on fears, about where the USA is heading with Obama.....he had better change his course or the Americans and their future generations will never get out of debt...they are now 'richly' in debt to the tune of 16 trillion....16 TRILLION!! The saying comes to mind ( attributed to Einstein) that the definition of Insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect different results....four more years of this wasteful, rediculous spending and the USA will never get out of debt...and we Canadians will not be far behind when the US economy collapses."

So I basically sent back my opinion on Romney as having no real workable plan that I could see..but in any event...she then responded.

"Right off ...there's the difference in our thinking...all in one sentence!..Your words...'I honestly hope he won't get the chance to prove me right'...I want the best person for the job to get the job!! It has nothing to do with me being right or wrong...What I suggest is that you watch MSN and CNN all the 'liberal' channels... and Fox News...honestly rate the integrity of the guest speakers and panelists on each show and have an open mind to what is being said...a word to the wise should be sufficient and the voters will not be able to say that they were not warned.

The US economy and foreign policy have taken such a beating under Obama that the US is going down the drain financially and has lost the respect of the rest of the world...especially the mid east...since Obama took office only three and one half years ago. Financially the US is going the Socialist way of Europe...look at the revolts that are going on in Greece, Spain, France...the government can promise all they want...there's just not enough money to pay for all the promises!!The government has to get the people back to work...give incentives to the wealthy to invest in businesses so the people will have jobs. Right now 47% of the people in the United States do not pay any taxes! He promised Hope and Change...the Change is evident...the Hope has just about disappeared. He lied then and he's continuing to lie...The facts are that there are more people out of work and more on food stamps and govenment subsidies...the national debt is scary.. since Obama took office. It's time for the Democrats to stop blaming Bush for everything. Obama had a senate majority and a majority in Congress for the first two years of his term...what did he do to correct any of the problems the Democrats were complaining about?...nothing..zilch! Instead he spent his time golfing, vacationing, being a pal with Celebrity malcontents and oh yes...Obamacare...which will not be what he promised the voters...it will be part of what will bankrupt the US. He is a Socialist and the American economy has been built on Capitalism...and was the reason for so many wanting to immigrate to the US.

Four more years of this bungling by this inept, arrogant man ("I am eye candy to you" he says on the TV show, The View) and the damage might be beyond repair. Oh yes, Obama is articulate...but, so are a lot of other people who have hidden agendas...like breaking down the social structure for their own radical ideas. Enough is enough...if he was in private business and had a record like this he would have been fired! He's got to go...Romney has proven his ability in the business world...listen to what the Economists say about his (and Paul Ryan's) plans for getting the US out of this mess. Obama and Biden would be a joke if things weren't so bad. I suggest you read Charles Krauthammer a brilliant jounalist...this man knows what he is talking about. Listen to the Experts and be open-minded."


So that's where it was left. Does she have many valid points? Do many consider her way off? Please comment.

justforfun000

 

[GuyPinestra]

If you believe in an America where anyone can 'make it' on their own hard work, she is absolutely correct.

OTOH, if you believe in a 'new, improved, redistributive America', not so much...

 

[beretta304]

http://www.mittromney.com/sites/def...America-PlanForJobsAndEconomicGrowth-Full.pdf

Enjoy his plan.

 

[Murf76]

Your aunt is right. You can't have enormous groups of voters indebted for their subsidence on the political class. It breeds corruption and removes REAL choice in a democratic representative government. If one is completely dependent upon government, they're no longer free to vote for the best course as they see it, but rather, must vote for the candidate who will keep the freebies coming.

If you're new to American politics, start your reading list with the U.S. Constitution and The Federalist Papers. By the time you're done, you'll see that our system of government is NOT an arbitrary one. It begins with the concept of natural, unalienable rights which our government is tasked to protect, long with it's duty to national security. Imagine a bubble of absolute freedom around each citizen, everyone free to do as they like just so long as the exercise of their liberty doesn't impede the like and equal right on anyone else. This was the basis upon which our laws were meant to be created. You can't poison a stream even if it's on your own property because there's an INDIVIDUAL downstream whose rights are abrogated. It's not about macromanaging societies or social engineering. It's about the rights of individuals.

Once you've wrapped your mind around unalienable rights you can see how Liberty has made us a strong, creative, and resilient people. Explore Natural Law and consider how it was applied to the Founding. It really is the reason why our U.S. Constitution and early philosophy is still relevant today. Circumstances change, but people don't. Our founders understood that, and they saw that certain human behaviors led inexorably to tumult and faction and that those behaviors could be avoided if the rights of individuals were respected.

Bear in mind as you consider these philosophies and how they applied to the Founding that the matter of Slavery is a glaring example of 'kicking the can down the road' for the sake of expedience. The only way to get the Southern States on board at that time was to accept their terms. But... we see in the fullness of time that the merits of Natural Law was proved in that example. Individual rights WERE denied; and tumult, faction, and war WAS the predictable result.

Obama is wrong. You can't macromanage a society without micromanaging lives. And every depredation upon the unalienable rights of individuals lends itself predictably to faction and tumult.

This is not to say that social safety nets aren't both constitutional and desirable, but they are best left to state and local governments. In that way, we don't see citizens 'voting largess from the federal treasury', which leaves the federal government in better position to check and balance the States. Bear in mind also that at the state level there is competition for business and citizens, so it becomes imperative for each state to balance the need for social welfare against the need to produce revenue which means that fiscal health becomes more organic.