John McCain 'doesn't understand' enhanced interrogation or torture

[Dot Com]

More lies. According to the CIA, there is no difference. We don't have a kinder, gentler version of waterboarding.

The United States's Office of Legal Counsel stated the CIA's definition of waterboarding in a Top Secret 2002 memorandum as follows:

In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth... During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths... The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout... You have... informed us that it is likely that this procedure would not last more than twenty minutes in any one application.[23]



​

You don't see a difference between that procedure and actually sticking someone's head under water?

Have you supplied one link, on this entire thread, to back up your assertion? Your opinions are just that- opinions. ZZZzzz

 

[Mr. Shaman]

there is one major difference.

When the nva water boarded people they tied them to a board so they could not move, put a cloth over their face, and physically dunked them in water. We, on the other hand, did not restrain them, and stopped it as soon as they sat up. This entire thing was explained to them in advance, and all they actually had to do to entirely avoid the sensation of drowoning was sit up before the process began.

if that is the case why would we even use it?

I find this very hard to believe. Do you have a source?

there, see. Someone provides something and all you can do is attack it. You aren't interested in the truth. Someone could provide a thousand differences all with proof and you would find something to dispute. That's what makes you a smelly troll.

you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass, you half-baked little-punk!!!​

 

[The Rabbi]

More lies. According to the CIA, there is no difference. We don't have a kinder, gentler version of waterboarding.

The United States's Office of Legal Counsel stated the CIA's definition of waterboarding in a Top Secret 2002 memorandum as follows:

In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth... During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths... The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout... You have... informed us that it is likely that this procedure would not last more than twenty minutes in any one application.[23]



​

You don't see a difference between that procedure and actually sticking someone's head under water?

Have you supplied one link, on this entire thread, to back up your assertion? Your opinions are just that- opinions. ZZZzzz

He didnt have to. Someone else already did.
Or are you too dumb to notice?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

More lies. According to the CIA, there is no difference. We don't have a kinder, gentler version of waterboarding.

The United States's Office of Legal Counsel stated the CIA's definition of waterboarding in a Top Secret 2002 memorandum as follows:

In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth... During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths... The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout... You have... informed us that it is likely that this procedure would not last more than twenty minutes in any one application.[23]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding#cite_note-22
​

What does the Vietnamese Office of Legal Council say about it?
Oh yeah. The NVA didnt give a shit about it being legal. They didnt give a shit if someone died during the process. And they didnt give a shit whether they got information or not.
I guess that pretty much distinguishes torture in Vietnam from the interrogation techniques used by the U.S..

Roll-on-by, Skippy.

Hell, you weren't even old-enough to be shittin' mustard, when 'Nam was turnin' & burnin'.

You're a bogus, little punk!​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

McRino should admit he is a Democrat

after Lieberman admits he's a Republican.

Funny, that Ticket would have beat Obama hands down.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight......

....it was their "turn", right??

THAT.....​

.....wasn't gonna happen.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

after Lieberman admits he's a Republican.

Funny, that Ticket would have beat Obama hands down. Not to say that we still would have been Headless and Fucked, at the same time.

No it would not.
The press was in the tank for Obama and did everything they could to portray McCain as an old white guy out of the loop and Obama as a young cool black guy who could solve problems.
It didnt help that McCain reinforced that image.

....And, neither would his....

.....economic-advisor!!!!!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What does the Vietnamese Office of Legal Council say about it?
Oh yeah. The NVA didnt give a shit about it being legal. They didnt give a shit if someone died during the process. And they didnt give a shit whether they got information or not.
I guess that pretty much distinguishes torture in Vietnam from the interrogation techniques used by the U.S..

no, that distinguishes end goals. it does nothing to distinguish how the act of waterboarding done by a us official is any different than the act of waterboarding done by anyone else.

Like I said. You arent interested in arriving at the truth, just proving a point.

Gee.....that almost makes sense, Skippy!!

​

 

[Claudette]

McCain endured real torture from the NV. He was actually suffered real pain and injury. I'm sure there was no doctor monitoring his condition to advise the torturers when to stop. No medical staff waiting to jump in to render medical aid if needed.

The waterboarding done to the dirtbags is a long way from the real torture McCain endured.

 

[ogibillm]

McCain endured real torture from the NV. He was actually suffered real pain and injury. I'm sure there was no doctor monitoring his condition to advise the torturers when to stop. No medical staff waiting to jump in to render medical aid if needed.

The waterboarding done to the dirtbags is a long way from the real torture McCain endured.

again, how? how is the waterboarding the United States did different than any other water boarding?

the sensation is the same. there is no physical difference.

 

[Dr.Drock]

McCain endured real torture from the NV. He was actually suffered real pain and injury. I'm sure there was no doctor monitoring his condition to advise the torturers when to stop. No medical staff waiting to jump in to render medical aid if needed.

The waterboarding done to the dirtbags is a long way from the real torture McCain endured.

So whether or not it's torture depends on how close a doctor is standing?

Okie dokie

 

[Ravi]

More lies. According to the CIA, there is no difference. We don't have a kinder, gentler version of waterboarding.

The United States's Office of Legal Counsel stated the CIA's definition of waterboarding in a Top Secret 2002 memorandum as follows:

In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth... During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths... The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout... You have... informed us that it is likely that this procedure would not last more than twenty minutes in any one application.[23]



​

You don't see a difference between that procedure and actually sticking someone's head under water?

You posted that the tortured weren't held down, and could stop being tortured simply by sitting up before any water was poured.

Idiot.

 

[blastoff]

I'll never understand McCain and the torture/enhanced interrogation issue.

First of all, he's on record saying it (torture) worked on him. And he wrote that he regretted giving his interrogators anything more than name, rank, and serial number which was all he was allowed to say according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

I've read several books by former VN POW's, so can't recall specifically in which one I read that on the long flight home after finally being released one of the main topics of conversation among many of them was whether or not they'd face repercussions for, as a result of torture, giving info other than name, rank, etc. to their captors.

Also, some slight wording of the UCMJ was changed after Vietnam so ex-prisoners would not be punished if they'd eventually talked under pressure. Which sounds to me like a clear admission by a lot of people in the military that torture works.

 

[Dot Com]

McCain endured real torture from the NV. He was actually suffered real pain and injury. I'm sure there was no doctor monitoring his condition to advise the torturers when to stop. No medical staff waiting to jump in to render medical aid if needed.

The waterboarding done to the dirtbags is a long way from the real torture McCain endured.

Well then.....maybe you can be one of the 1st righties on this thread to supply proof backing up your opinion eh?

 

[blastoff]

McCain endured real torture from the NV. He was actually suffered real pain and injury. I'm sure there was no doctor monitoring his condition to advise the torturers when to stop. No medical staff waiting to jump in to render medical aid if needed.

The waterboarding done to the dirtbags is a long way from the real torture McCain endured.

Well then.....maybe you can be one of the 1st righties on this thread to supply proof backing up your opinion eh?

It's in McCain's book.

 

[LAfrique]

John "Wayne" McCain is a fighter pilot, being without emotion and whose only goal is to demolish towns, cities and nations. To appreciate what I just told you, watch the documentary "Fighter Pilot."

 

[Claudette]

McCain endured real torture from the NV. He was actually suffered real pain and injury. I'm sure there was no doctor monitoring his condition to advise the torturers when to stop. No medical staff waiting to jump in to render medical aid if needed.

The waterboarding done to the dirtbags is a long way from the real torture McCain endured.

Well then.....maybe you can be one of the 1st righties on this thread to supply proof backing up your opinion eh?

If I have a choice I'll take waterboarding over what McCain endured.

You would too.

 

[Dot Com]

McCain endured real torture from the NV. He was actually suffered real pain and injury. I'm sure there was no doctor monitoring his condition to advise the torturers when to stop. No medical staff waiting to jump in to render medical aid if needed.

The waterboarding done to the dirtbags is a long way from the real torture McCain endured.

Well then.....maybe you can be one of the 1st righties on this thread to supply proof backing up your opinion eh?

If I have a choice I'll take waterboarding over what McCain endured.

You would too.

If you provided proof how the sensation of drowning differed, which you can't BTW, perhaps I might.

 

[Claudette]

You and I can only imagine the sensation of drowning Dot, but I can guarantee you that I would still prefer that over what McCain endured.

You of course can make up your own mind.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well then.....maybe you can be one of the 1st righties on this thread to supply proof backing up your opinion eh?

If I have a choice I'll take waterboarding over what McCain endured.

You would too.

If you provided proof how the sensation of drowning differed, which you can't BTW, perhaps I might.

With the US you know you're not going to die.
With the NVA there was no guarantee.
Pretty cut and dried.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

More lies. According to the CIA, there is no difference. We don't have a kinder, gentler version of waterboarding.

The United States's Office of Legal Counsel stated the CIA's definition of waterboarding in a Top Secret 2002 memorandum as follows:

In this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet. The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth... During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths... The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout... You have... informed us that it is likely that this procedure would not last more than twenty minutes in any one application.[23]



​

You don't see a difference between that procedure and actually sticking someone's head under water?

You posted that the tortured weren't held down, and could stop being tortured simply by sitting up before any water was poured.

Idiot.

Yes, because that was what the famous Woo memo laid out. Still, how is it at all like having your head actually dunked under water?