daveman
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Credibility of the veterans and their testimony
Since the first day of the WSI event and for more than thirty years since, individuals and organizations have sought to discredit or at least minimize the painful revelations brought forth at that event. Critics have claimed that participants were frauds; that they were told to not cooperate with later investigators; that their testimonies were inaccurate or just plain fabricated.[18] To date, no records of fraudulent participants or fraudulent testimony have been produced.[10] Winter Soldier Investigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
prove the above wrong
I already have, stupid motherfucker.
WinterSoldier.com - Army CID Investigations of VVAW War Crimes Allegations
The following are Army WSI witnesses investigated by the CID:
Note: Cases 1, 11, 19, 32 and 40 cover allegations made outside WSI by witnesses who also made WSI statements.
1. Beitzel, John, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 4/21, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to January 1970).
Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate firing upon unarmed Vietnamese, 2) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners/detainees, 3) Mutilation of dead bodies.
Investigation summary: Complainants Beitzel and Joseph Brenman refused to provide specific information to support their allegations, which were made in a venue other than WSI, but are basically the same. Joe Bangert (USMC) and Jeffrey Dubrow (USN) accompanied Beitzel and Brenman at the subject venue.
Result: Investigation terminated; insufficient evidence.
John Beitzel / Joseph Brenman CID Investigation Report
2. Bernath, Fred, 26, 1st Lt., 101st MP Co., 101st Airborne Division (December 1968 to October 1969).
Allegation: 1) Electrical torture of prisoners/detainees, 2) Gassing of civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement supporting his WSI claims, but was unable to identify any of the individuals involved or the date of the incident. He did name a possible witness who subsequently submitted a sworn statement denying any knowledge of the events alleged by Bernath.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Fred Bernath CID Investigation Report
3. Bunge, Sam, 1st Lt., "B" Co., 3/187, 101st Airborne Division (July 1968 to June 1969).
Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of Vietnamese male, 2) Desecration of graves, 3) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant repeated WSI claims but refused to sign a written statement. He provided names of possible witnesses but did not name any of those allegedly involved, including his former commanding officer. Interviews with former members of Bunge's unit and his former commanding officers revealed no evidence that supported the allegations.
Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigative efforts completed; unfounded.
Sam Bunge CID Investigation Report
4. Butts, Dennis, 24, SP/4 (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12, 25th Infantry Division and "E" Co., 4/39, 9th Infantry Division (September 1966 to September 1967).
Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate killing and wounding of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to cooperate without immunity on advice of VVAW counsel.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Dennis Butts CID Investigation Report
5. Byrne, Kevin, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 42nd Scout Dog, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (November 1968 to November 1969).
Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of an NVA officer, 2) Failure to render medical treatment, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer questions or provide further information for fear of "causing trouble for the peons instead of the generals."
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Kevin Byrne CID Investigation Report
6. Caldwell, Dennis, 24, CWO-2, "A" Trp., 3/17, Air Cav., 1st Aviation Brigade (October 1968 to October 1969).
Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Indiscriminate destruction of villages, 4) Gassing (tear gas) of civilians and livestock, 5) Aggravated assault on a prisoner.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions or provide further information.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Dennis Caldwell CID Investigation Report
7. Chiles, David, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4, 25th Infantry Division (January 1968 to December 1968).
Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy corpse, 2) Indiscriminate killing of two Vietnamese children and an elderly Vietnamese man.
Investigation summary: Counsel present at interview. Complainant declined to provide any substantive information, saying he would testify only before a Congressional Committee.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
David Chiles CID Investigation Report
8. Craig, Douglas, 22, SP/4, "D" Co., 2nd Bn., 8th Brigade, 1st Air Cav. Division (December 1968 to August 1969).
Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant stated that he had no direct information that civilians were killed and no direct knowledge of the alleged event. He further stated that he had misgivings about testifying at Detroit, as he could not substantiate the allegations.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Douglas Craig CID Investigation Report
9. Craig, Larry, 29, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).
Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoner, 2) Desecration of a grave.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI testimony and was unable to provide specific information or identify any U.S or Vietnamese personnel.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Larry Craig CID Investigation Report
10. Donner, Donald, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 20th Brigade, 86th Combat Engineers (August 1967 to July 1968).
Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese male, 2) Wounding of a 14-year-old Vietnamese girl, 3) Dereliction in the performance of duty, 4) Indiscriminate killing of livestock, 5) Failure to bury enemy dead.
Investigation summary: Complainant characterized the alleged incidents as accidental, misrepresented by him at WSI, or known to him only by hearsay.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Donald Donner CID Investigation Report
Note: Cases 1, 11, 19, 32 and 40 cover allegations made outside WSI by witnesses who also made WSI statements.
1. Beitzel, John, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 4/21, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to January 1970).
Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate firing upon unarmed Vietnamese, 2) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners/detainees, 3) Mutilation of dead bodies.
Investigation summary: Complainants Beitzel and Joseph Brenman refused to provide specific information to support their allegations, which were made in a venue other than WSI, but are basically the same. Joe Bangert (USMC) and Jeffrey Dubrow (USN) accompanied Beitzel and Brenman at the subject venue.
Result: Investigation terminated; insufficient evidence.
John Beitzel / Joseph Brenman CID Investigation Report
2. Bernath, Fred, 26, 1st Lt., 101st MP Co., 101st Airborne Division (December 1968 to October 1969).
Allegation: 1) Electrical torture of prisoners/detainees, 2) Gassing of civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement supporting his WSI claims, but was unable to identify any of the individuals involved or the date of the incident. He did name a possible witness who subsequently submitted a sworn statement denying any knowledge of the events alleged by Bernath.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Fred Bernath CID Investigation Report
3. Bunge, Sam, 1st Lt., "B" Co., 3/187, 101st Airborne Division (July 1968 to June 1969).
Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of Vietnamese male, 2) Desecration of graves, 3) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant repeated WSI claims but refused to sign a written statement. He provided names of possible witnesses but did not name any of those allegedly involved, including his former commanding officer. Interviews with former members of Bunge's unit and his former commanding officers revealed no evidence that supported the allegations.
Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigative efforts completed; unfounded.
Sam Bunge CID Investigation Report
4. Butts, Dennis, 24, SP/4 (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12, 25th Infantry Division and "E" Co., 4/39, 9th Infantry Division (September 1966 to September 1967).
Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate killing and wounding of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to cooperate without immunity on advice of VVAW counsel.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Dennis Butts CID Investigation Report
5. Byrne, Kevin, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 42nd Scout Dog, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (November 1968 to November 1969).
Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of an NVA officer, 2) Failure to render medical treatment, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer questions or provide further information for fear of "causing trouble for the peons instead of the generals."
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Kevin Byrne CID Investigation Report
6. Caldwell, Dennis, 24, CWO-2, "A" Trp., 3/17, Air Cav., 1st Aviation Brigade (October 1968 to October 1969).
Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Indiscriminate destruction of villages, 4) Gassing (tear gas) of civilians and livestock, 5) Aggravated assault on a prisoner.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions or provide further information.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Dennis Caldwell CID Investigation Report
7. Chiles, David, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4, 25th Infantry Division (January 1968 to December 1968).
Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy corpse, 2) Indiscriminate killing of two Vietnamese children and an elderly Vietnamese man.
Investigation summary: Counsel present at interview. Complainant declined to provide any substantive information, saying he would testify only before a Congressional Committee.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
David Chiles CID Investigation Report
8. Craig, Douglas, 22, SP/4, "D" Co., 2nd Bn., 8th Brigade, 1st Air Cav. Division (December 1968 to August 1969).
Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant stated that he had no direct information that civilians were killed and no direct knowledge of the alleged event. He further stated that he had misgivings about testifying at Detroit, as he could not substantiate the allegations.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Douglas Craig CID Investigation Report
9. Craig, Larry, 29, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).
Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoner, 2) Desecration of a grave.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI testimony and was unable to provide specific information or identify any U.S or Vietnamese personnel.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Larry Craig CID Investigation Report
10. Donner, Donald, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 20th Brigade, 86th Combat Engineers (August 1967 to July 1968).
Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese male, 2) Wounding of a 14-year-old Vietnamese girl, 3) Dereliction in the performance of duty, 4) Indiscriminate killing of livestock, 5) Failure to bury enemy dead.
Investigation summary: Complainant characterized the alleged incidents as accidental, misrepresented by him at WSI, or known to him only by hearsay.
Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.
Donald Donner CID Investigation Report
That's the first ten. There are 38 more. "Insufficient evidence". "Unfounded".
Three more cases: "Unable to identify complainant.".
You lose. Grow the hell up and admit it.