John Kerry: Unfit for Service

[daveman]

Credibility of the veterans and their testimony

Since the first day of the WSI event and for more than thirty years since, individuals and organizations have sought to discredit or at least minimize the painful revelations brought forth at that event. Critics have claimed that participants were frauds; that they were told to not cooperate with later investigators; that their testimonies were inaccurate or just plain fabricated.[18] To date, no records of fraudulent participants or fraudulent testimony have been produced.[10] Winter Soldier Investigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

prove the above wrong

I already have, stupid motherfucker.

WinterSoldier.com - Army CID Investigations of VVAW War Crimes Allegations

The following are Army WSI witnesses investigated by the CID:
Note: Cases 1, 11, 19, 32 and 40 cover allegations made outside WSI by witnesses who also made WSI statements.

1. Beitzel, John, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 4/21, 11th Brigade, Americal Division (January 1969 to January 1970).
Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate firing upon unarmed Vietnamese, 2) Torture and maltreatment of prisoners/detainees, 3) Mutilation of dead bodies.
Investigation summary: Complainants Beitzel and Joseph Brenman refused to provide specific information to support their allegations, which were made in a venue other than WSI, but are basically the same. Joe Bangert (USMC) and Jeffrey Dubrow (USN) accompanied Beitzel and Brenman at the subject venue.

Result: Investigation terminated; insufficient evidence.

John Beitzel / Joseph Brenman CID Investigation Report

2. Bernath, Fred, 26, 1st Lt., 101st MP Co., 101st Airborne Division (December 1968 to October 1969).
Allegation: 1) Electrical torture of prisoners/detainees, 2) Gassing of civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant submitted a sworn statement supporting his WSI claims, but was unable to identify any of the individuals involved or the date of the incident. He did name a possible witness who subsequently submitted a sworn statement denying any knowledge of the events alleged by Bernath.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Fred Bernath CID Investigation Report

3. Bunge, Sam, 1st Lt., "B" Co., 3/187, 101st Airborne Division (July 1968 to June 1969).
Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of Vietnamese male, 2) Desecration of graves, 3) Gassing of Vietnamese civilians.
Investigation summary: Complainant repeated WSI claims but refused to sign a written statement. He provided names of possible witnesses but did not name any of those allegedly involved, including his former commanding officer. Interviews with former members of Bunge's unit and his former commanding officers revealed no evidence that supported the allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; supplemental investigative efforts completed; unfounded.

Sam Bunge CID Investigation Report

4. Butts, Dennis, 24, SP/4 (E-4), HHQ Co., 2/12, 25th Infantry Division and "E" Co., 4/39, 9th Infantry Division (September 1966 to September 1967).
Allegation: 1) Indiscriminate killing and wounding of Vietnamese civilians, 2) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to cooperate without immunity on advice of VVAW counsel.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Dennis Butts CID Investigation Report

5. Byrne, Kevin, 21, Sgt. (E-5), 42nd Scout Dog, 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division (November 1968 to November 1969).
Allegation: 1) Attempted murder of an NVA officer, 2) Failure to render medical treatment, 3) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 4) Destruction of private property.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer questions or provide further information for fear of "causing trouble for the peons instead of the generals."

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Kevin Byrne CID Investigation Report

6. Caldwell, Dennis, 24, CWO-2, "A" Trp., 3/17, Air Cav., 1st Aviation Brigade (October 1968 to October 1969).
Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese, 2) Indiscriminate use of fire power, 3) Indiscriminate destruction of villages, 4) Gassing (tear gas) of civilians and livestock, 5) Aggravated assault on a prisoner.
Investigation summary: Complainant refused to answer any questions or provide further information.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Dennis Caldwell CID Investigation Report

7. Chiles, David, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 3/4, 25th Infantry Division (January 1968 to December 1968).
Allegation: 1) Mutilation of enemy corpse, 2) Indiscriminate killing of two Vietnamese children and an elderly Vietnamese man.
Investigation summary: Counsel present at interview. Complainant declined to provide any substantive information, saying he would testify only before a Congressional Committee.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

David Chiles CID Investigation Report

8. Craig, Douglas, 22, SP/4, "D" Co., 2nd Bn., 8th Brigade, 1st Air Cav. Division (December 1968 to August 1969).
Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified Vietnamese.
Investigation summary: Complainant stated that he had no direct information that civilians were killed and no direct knowledge of the alleged event. He further stated that he had misgivings about testifying at Detroit, as he could not substantiate the allegations.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Douglas Craig CID Investigation Report

9. Craig, Larry, 29, SP/4, Public Information Office, 25th Infantry Division (1966 to 1967).
Allegation: 1) Murder of unidentified prisoner, 2) Desecration of a grave.
Investigation summary: Complainant backtracked on his WSI testimony and was unable to provide specific information or identify any U.S or Vietnamese personnel.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Larry Craig CID Investigation Report

10. Donner, Donald, 24, SP/4 (E-4), 20th Brigade, 86th Combat Engineers (August 1967 to July 1968).
Allegation: 1) Murder of a Vietnamese male, 2) Wounding of a 14-year-old Vietnamese girl, 3) Dereliction in the performance of duty, 4) Indiscriminate killing of livestock, 5) Failure to bury enemy dead.
Investigation summary: Complainant characterized the alleged incidents as accidental, misrepresented by him at WSI, or known to him only by hearsay.

Result: Investigation completed; insufficient evidence.

Donald Donner CID Investigation Report​

That's the first ten. There are 38 more. "Insufficient evidence". "Unfounded".

Three more cases: "Unable to identify complainant.".

You lose. Grow the hell up and admit it.

 

[daveman]

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.​

All lies.

3 million Vietnamese died in the war.

We dropped more bombs on Vietnam than we did on Germany and Japan combined.

It's pretty much not just that we did bad things, but we did stupid thing, such as crowding all the Vietnamese rural population into prison camps called Hamlets...

Now, maybe, just maybe you guys can get away with rehashing Vietnam during Kerry's confirmation hearing... but I don't think people are in the mood for that shit.

You don't think at all, stupid motherfucker.

 

[JoeB131]

So the Army investigated itself and found the Army did nothing wrong.

Really?

In related news, Foxes investigated recent raids on the henhouse, and found no irregularities. Two more hens were reported missing.

 

[daveman]

Are you really trying to claim that there were no attrocities in Vietnam?

Did I say that, you stupid motherfucker?

I'm not sure, Dave, what are you saying?

That gee, we wuz committing attrocities, but not THOSE attrocities?

How about this. We just say.. we got involved in a war for stupid reasons, we did stupid things, and we're sorry.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

You stupid motherfucker.

It's really very simple.

Kerry lied.

Got it?

Kerry lied.

And useful idiots like you eat it up.

 

[Trajan]

Yes, we can, so, you gonna take that great liberal father Lyndon Johnson to task?

Does anyone remember the U.S. body count pressure during Vietnam?



Much More: A My Lai a Month: How the US Fought the Vietnam War :: JapanFocus

Are you going to take LBJ to task or not?

Gee, I didn't know Lyndon Johnson was being floated for Secretary of Defense?

Then why are you quoting what you are quoting?

 

[JoeB131]

[
You don't think at all, stupid motherfucker.

We bombed the snot out of a third world country because they didn't accept our way of life.

We acted like a bully, but the victim showed more dignity...

When we went into Vietnam, none of our major allies went in with us.

I think that about says it all.

 

[daveman]

So the Army investigated itself and found the Army did nothing wrong.

Really?

In related news, Foxes investigated recent raids on the henhouse, and found no irregularities. Two more hens were reported missing.

Yes, Joe, we know you're incapable of believing anything that doesn't conclude that America is the source of all evil in the world.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Dave is a coward and a scoundrel. Any man who never saw combat but questions teh combat service of another man who the US Military awarded medals too...


just sick and pathetic

 

[daveman]

[
You don't think at all, stupid motherfucker.

We bombed the snot out of a third world country because they didn't accept our way of life.

We acted like a bully, but the victim showed more dignity...

When we went into Vietnam, none of our major allies went in with us.

I think that about says it all.

"Yay Communists!!"

Useful idiot.

 

[Trajan]

Yes, we can, so, you gonna take that great liberal father Lyndon Johnson to task?

Does anyone remember the U.S. body count pressure during Vietnam?



Much More: A My Lai a Month: How the US Fought the Vietnam War :: JapanFocus

Are you going to take LBJ to task or not?

LBJ is dead

Thx for stopping by, read the stupidity lakhoooora is posting.....

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[
You don't think at all, stupid motherfucker.

We bombed the snot out of a third world country because they didn't accept our way of life.

We acted like a bully, but the victim showed more dignity...

When we went into Vietnam, none of our major allies went in with us.

I think that about says it all.

careful, posting with Davey can be dangerous to your mental health. He's a pathetic man who attacks decorated military veterans

 

[Trajan]

Dave is a coward and a scoundrel. Any man who never saw combat but questions teh combat service of another man who the US Military awarded medals too...


just sick and pathetic

Have you? Then u should stfu too

 

[daveman]

Dave is a coward and a scoundrel. Any man who never saw combat but questions teh combat service of another man who the US Military awarded medals too...


just sick and pathetic

Hey, you stupid motherfucker:

I haven't brought up Kerry's second tour in Vietnam. (Did you even know he did two -- well, one and part of another? Probably not -- because you're a stupid motherfucker.)

Throughout this thread, I've discussed ONLY Kerry's actions after his second tour.

So I'd tell you to stop lying, but you simply can't help it.

Stupid motherfucker.

 

[daveman]

[
You don't think at all, stupid motherfucker.

We bombed the snot out of a third world country because they didn't accept our way of life.

We acted like a bully, but the victim showed more dignity...

When we went into Vietnam, none of our major allies went in with us.

I think that about says it all.

careful, posting with Davey can be dangerous to your mental health. He's a pathetic man who attacks decorated military veterans

Just the lying and treasonous ones.

Say, did you ever mention when you served?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Only pathetic figures attack the military service of decorated war heroes

 

[Lakhota]

Then why are you quoting what you are quoting?

To further confirm that Vietnam war atrocities took place for a fact, and were directly and/or indirectly sanctioned by U.S. military command. In other words, John Kerry was correct.

Senator John Kerry would be an excellent Secretary of Defense - if he wants it. He understands the horror of war.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Don't feed the dishonorable and pathetic trolls who attack an honorable veteran

 

[JimH52]

Daveman would rather see the weekend warrior who, when sober, served in the reserves. Oh, and of course he was given special treatment because of who his dad was.

 

[Lakhota]

daveman is a zero. I've known that ever since joining USMB.

 

[daveman]

Only pathetic figures attack the military service of decorated war heroes

Now that you've had several opportunities to provide details of your service in uniform and have failed to do so, I think it's safe to say you're just a tough-talking internet pussy who never wore the uniform.

Why didn't you serve?

Oh, and "Told off Vietnam vets" my ass.