John Adams

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sealybobo, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    I saw the greatest show last night on PBS about John Adams. Back then it was Federalists and Republicans.

    You learn about Washington, Jefferson, John Quincy Adams as a child, Ben Franklin. What a great time in history.

    Anyways, Jefferson & Adams were friends who became political enemies and then later in life reconciled.

    They said when Jefferson beat Adams, it was one of the greatest moments in US history because one party power changed hands without a gun being raised. In other words, it was a smooth transition and that was huge in our very young democracy.

    I'm not sure if I'd be a Federalist or Republican. I like Adams after seeing the entire story, but he signed the Alien & Sedition Acts.

    Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    But I'm starting to think this two party system is why America is so great. We have the left and right keeping each other in check. Without one, maybe it'd be a scary country. LOL.

    Great documentary if you ever get a chance to see it.

    American Experience | John & Abigail Adams | PBS
     
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  2. indago
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    indago VIP Member

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    Yes, I watched that one too...

    There was an HBO MiniSeries last year about John Adams, with Paul Giamatti and Laura Linney. I believe the most chilling scene in the movie was when John Adams was addressing King George after the end of hostilities, and John Adams was appointed Ambassador to Great Britain. John Adams entered the room and King George was standing beside his throne. He just stared at John Adams. It was a cold, icy stare; a very well done scene.
     
  3. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    They talked of that moment last night. John Adams had something well prepared to say. And the idea that 2 years earlier the king would have hung him for treason.

    I was thinking about the time right before a trip, little John Quincy Adams was depressed and his mother said, "dude, are you kidding me, a genius would kill to be in your shoes, see the world, meet some of the most important men in the world".

    Ok, she didn't say dude but you get the point. LOL.

    Just an amazing time.

    So basically, I won't argue anymore about who was better, Adams or Jefferson, because I liked both men. They both cared about America. And it was a different time. I don't think either party was liberal and I'm not sure which party the Democrats came from. LOL. I tend to believe they were the Republicans back then and the Republicans today were the Federalists back then.
     
  4. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Federalists were people who recognized that if America was ever to have a chance of becoming a world power, they'd need to be more than a collection of allied State governments.

    Federalists were the people who supported a national bank (to create a national economy and tariffs to foster American industrial growth.

    Jefferson, early in his career (before he became POTUS) believed in states rights and a very limited for of Federal government.

    Of course the moment he was POTUS he changed and began doing things that ONLY a believer in a strong centralized government could do.

    For example...using federal funds (all collected from tariffs incidently) to fund the Lousiana puchase.
     
  5. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    I think the same is true today. The Republicans talk about a smaller government with less power but when they get into office, they prove all that is just talk.

    They only want states to decide when they don't like the Federal Government's decision. LOL. Like when it's a liberal decision, let the states decide. Slavery? Let the states decide. Tap oil offshore? Let each state decide. Gay marriage? Let the states decide.

    Settle the Florida recount? Let the US Federal Supreme Court decide. :lol:
     
  6. Lycurgus
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    Lycurgus Who is Obama, really...??

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    Thanks for sharing this. I'm going to check listings as PBS will often replay shows.

    I often gripe about the two party system, thinking a third would be nice. However, when I look at other nations, mostly in Europe with 4, 5, 6 or more, I realize that our process, though not perfect isn't all that bad.

    Strong debate is healthy, as it should create personal growth and societies growth. However, if I could change something it would be the hardliners on both the right and the left. The unwillingness to learn and adapt from the opposing side.

    Thanks again for the info on the show and the link. Good thread.
     
  7. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    Now not to long ago you were spouting off about how bad John Adams was, and how todays Republicans are just like Federalists.
     
  8. sealybobo
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    sealybobo Diamond Member

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    Hi Kevin. I'm glad you found this today and reminded me it was you that I was talking to about Adams.

    Yea, I'm confused. I don't know if I would have been a Federalist or a Republican back then.

    One thing is for sure, neither of them were liberal in today's sense of the word.

    So we can't compare today to back then. It's not apples to apples.

    But yes, I admit that I thought the Federalists were the bad guys back then and the Republicans were the liberals. After watching this show I know that is not the case. The Federalists and Republicans both fought for independence. It's just that later their ideologies changed. I think Adams wanted a strong Presidency and Jefferson wanted a strong Senate. I know Jefferson wanted to go to war with France but Adams would not. It cost him the election. Jefferson the Republican had very strong opinions and so did Adams the Federalist.

    I don't know which party I would have belonged to???

    But I'm glad you found my thread.
     
  9. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    I don't think you would have been a Republican back then, as you don't believe in a limited Constitutional government. My guess is you would have fallen in with the Federalists. That's just my opinion though from your posts on this board, you certainly know yourself better than I do.

    Also, Thomas Jefferson did not want to go to war with France. Jefferson was a French sympathizer, but opted to follow Washington's and Adams' example and remain neutral in France's conflict with Britain.
     
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  10. Dante
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    Dante On leave Supporting Member

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    great documentary. isn't it the one that exposes Jefferson as a nit wit when it comes to certain ideas?
     

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