John Adams

sealybobo

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Jun 5, 2008
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I saw the greatest show last night on PBS about John Adams. Back then it was Federalists and Republicans.

You learn about Washington, Jefferson, John Quincy Adams as a child, Ben Franklin. What a great time in history.

Anyways, Jefferson & Adams were friends who became political enemies and then later in life reconciled.

They said when Jefferson beat Adams, it was one of the greatest moments in US history because one party power changed hands without a gun being raised. In other words, it was a smooth transition and that was huge in our very young democracy.

I'm not sure if I'd be a Federalist or Republican. I like Adams after seeing the entire story, but he signed the Alien & Sedition Acts.

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But I'm starting to think this two party system is why America is so great. We have the left and right keeping each other in check. Without one, maybe it'd be a scary country. LOL.

Great documentary if you ever get a chance to see it.

American Experience | John & Abigail Adams | PBS
 
Yes, I watched that one too...

There was an HBO MiniSeries last year about John Adams, with Paul Giamatti and Laura Linney. I believe the most chilling scene in the movie was when John Adams was addressing King George after the end of hostilities, and John Adams was appointed Ambassador to Great Britain. John Adams entered the room and King George was standing beside his throne. He just stared at John Adams. It was a cold, icy stare; a very well done scene.
 
Yes, I watched that one too...

There was an HBO MiniSeries last year about John Adams, with Paul Giamatti and Laura Linney. I believe the most chilling scene in the movie was when John Adams was addressing King George after the end of hostilities, and John Adams was appointed Ambassador to Great Britain. John Adams entered the room and King George was standing beside his throne. He just stared at John Adams. It was a cold, icy stare; a very well done scene.

They talked of that moment last night. John Adams had something well prepared to say. And the idea that 2 years earlier the king would have hung him for treason.

I was thinking about the time right before a trip, little John Quincy Adams was depressed and his mother said, "dude, are you kidding me, a genius would kill to be in your shoes, see the world, meet some of the most important men in the world".

Ok, she didn't say dude but you get the point. LOL.

Just an amazing time.

So basically, I won't argue anymore about who was better, Adams or Jefferson, because I liked both men. They both cared about America. And it was a different time. I don't think either party was liberal and I'm not sure which party the Democrats came from. LOL. I tend to believe they were the Republicans back then and the Republicans today were the Federalists back then.
 
Federalists were people who recognized that if America was ever to have a chance of becoming a world power, they'd need to be more than a collection of allied State governments.

Federalists were the people who supported a national bank (to create a national economy and tariffs to foster American industrial growth.

Jefferson, early in his career (before he became POTUS) believed in states rights and a very limited for of Federal government.

Of course the moment he was POTUS he changed and began doing things that ONLY a believer in a strong centralized government could do.

For example...using federal funds (all collected from tariffs incidently) to fund the Lousiana puchase.
 
Federalists were people who recognized that if America was ever to have a chance of becoming a world power, they'd need to be more than a collection of allied State governments.

Federalists were the people who supported a national bank (to create a national economy and tariffs to foster American industrial growth.

Jefferson, early in his career (before he became POTUS) believed in states rights and a very limited for of Federal government.

Of course the moment he was POTUS he changed and began doing things that ONLY a believer in a strong centralized government could do.

For example...using federal funds (all collected from tariffs incidently) to fund the Lousiana puchase.

I think the same is true today. The Republicans talk about a smaller government with less power but when they get into office, they prove all that is just talk.

They only want states to decide when they don't like the Federal Government's decision. LOL. Like when it's a liberal decision, let the states decide. Slavery? Let the states decide. Tap oil offshore? Let each state decide. Gay marriage? Let the states decide.

Settle the Florida recount? Let the US Federal Supreme Court decide. :lol:
 
I saw the greatest show last night on PBS about John Adams. Back then it was Federalists and Republicans.

You learn about Washington, Jefferson, John Quincy Adams as a child, Ben Franklin. What a great time in history.

Anyways, Jefferson & Adams were friends who became political enemies and then later in life reconciled.

They said when Jefferson beat Adams, it was one of the greatest moments in US history because one party power changed hands without a gun being raised. In other words, it was a smooth transition and that was huge in our very young democracy.

I'm not sure if I'd be a Federalist or Republican. I like Adams after seeing the entire story, but he signed the Alien & Sedition Acts.

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But I'm starting to think this two party system is why America is so great. We have the left and right keeping each other in check. Without one, maybe it'd be a scary country. LOL.

Great documentary if you ever get a chance to see it.

American Experience | John & Abigail Adams | PBS




Thanks for sharing this. I'm going to check listings as PBS will often replay shows.

I often gripe about the two party system, thinking a third would be nice. However, when I look at other nations, mostly in Europe with 4, 5, 6 or more, I realize that our process, though not perfect isn't all that bad.

Strong debate is healthy, as it should create personal growth and societies growth. However, if I could change something it would be the hardliners on both the right and the left. The unwillingness to learn and adapt from the opposing side.

Thanks again for the info on the show and the link. Good thread.
 
I saw the greatest show last night on PBS about John Adams. Back then it was Federalists and Republicans.

You learn about Washington, Jefferson, John Quincy Adams as a child, Ben Franklin. What a great time in history.

Anyways, Jefferson & Adams were friends who became political enemies and then later in life reconciled.

They said when Jefferson beat Adams, it was one of the greatest moments in US history because one party power changed hands without a gun being raised. In other words, it was a smooth transition and that was huge in our very young democracy.

I'm not sure if I'd be a Federalist or Republican. I like Adams after seeing the entire story, but he signed the Alien & Sedition Acts.

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But I'm starting to think this two party system is why America is so great. We have the left and right keeping each other in check. Without one, maybe it'd be a scary country. LOL.

Great documentary if you ever get a chance to see it.

American Experience | John & Abigail Adams | PBS

Now not to long ago you were spouting off about how bad John Adams was, and how todays Republicans are just like Federalists.
 
Now not to long ago you were spouting off about how bad John Adams was, and how todays Republicans are just like Federalists.

Hi Kevin. I'm glad you found this today and reminded me it was you that I was talking to about Adams.

Yea, I'm confused. I don't know if I would have been a Federalist or a Republican back then.

One thing is for sure, neither of them were liberal in today's sense of the word.

So we can't compare today to back then. It's not apples to apples.

But yes, I admit that I thought the Federalists were the bad guys back then and the Republicans were the liberals. After watching this show I know that is not the case. The Federalists and Republicans both fought for independence. It's just that later their ideologies changed. I think Adams wanted a strong Presidency and Jefferson wanted a strong Senate. I know Jefferson wanted to go to war with France but Adams would not. It cost him the election. Jefferson the Republican had very strong opinions and so did Adams the Federalist.

I don't know which party I would have belonged to???

But I'm glad you found my thread.
 
Hi Kevin. I'm glad you found this today and reminded me it was you that I was talking to about Adams.

Yea, I'm confused. I don't know if I would have been a Federalist or a Republican back then.

One thing is for sure, neither of them were liberal in today's sense of the word.

So we can't compare today to back then. It's not apples to apples.

But yes, I admit that I thought the Federalists were the bad guys back then and the Republicans were the liberals. After watching this show I know that is not the case. The Federalists and Republicans both fought for independence. It's just that later their ideologies changed. I think Adams wanted a strong Presidency and Jefferson wanted a strong Senate. I know Jefferson wanted to go to war with France but Adams would not. It cost him the election. Jefferson the Republican had very strong opinions and so did Adams the Federalist.

I don't know which party I would have belonged to???

But I'm glad you found my thread.

I don't think you would have been a Republican back then, as you don't believe in a limited Constitutional government. My guess is you would have fallen in with the Federalists. That's just my opinion though from your posts on this board, you certainly know yourself better than I do.

Also, Thomas Jefferson did not want to go to war with France. Jefferson was a French sympathizer, but opted to follow Washington's and Adams' example and remain neutral in France's conflict with Britain.
 
I saw the greatest show last night on PBS about John Adams. Back then it was Federalists and Republicans.

You learn about Washington, Jefferson, John Quincy Adams as a child, Ben Franklin. What a great time in history.

Anyways, Jefferson & Adams were friends who became political enemies and then later in life reconciled.

They said when Jefferson beat Adams, it was one of the greatest moments in US history because one party power changed hands without a gun being raised. In other words, it was a smooth transition and that was huge in our very young democracy.

I'm not sure if I'd be a Federalist or Republican. I like Adams after seeing the entire story, but he signed the Alien & Sedition Acts.

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But I'm starting to think this two party system is why America is so great. We have the left and right keeping each other in check. Without one, maybe it'd be a scary country. LOL.

Great documentary if you ever get a chance to see it.

American Experience | John & Abigail Adams | PBS

great documentary. isn't it the one that exposes Jefferson as a nit wit when it comes to certain ideas?
 
I don't think you would have been a Republican back then, as you don't believe in a limited Constitutional government. My guess is you would have fallen in with the Federalists. That's just my opinion though from your posts on this board, you certainly know yourself better than I do.

Also, Thomas Jefferson did not want to go to war with France. Jefferson was a French sympathizer, but opted to follow Washington's and Adams' example and remain neutral in France's conflict with Britain.

Jefferson was a radical like the French revolutionists. Wasn't Jefferson of the opinion that we should rewrite laws/government every 7 years? Wasn't Jefferson hostile to what we have today...a government based on old laws and agreements?
 
great documentary. isn't it the one that exposes Jefferson as a nit wit when it comes to certain ideas?

No! There were other documentaries about Jefferson, but this one on Adams wasn't the one you are referring to.
 
Jefferson was a radical like the French revolutionists. Wasn't Jefferson of the opinion that we should rewrite laws/government every 7 years? Wasn't Jefferson hostile to what we have today...a government based on old laws and agreements?

He certainly was a radical thinker, no doubt. And he harbored a healthy mistrust of government, which is not a negative in the least.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson
 
If anyone is interested n finding out more about John Adams, there is a simply brilliant biography by David McCullough, who also won a Pulitzer for his bio of Truman.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/John-Adams-David-McCullough/dp/141657588X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230122900&sr=8-2]Amazon.com: John Adams: David McCullough: Books[/ame]
 
Might be a little off topic, but in reference to the two parties why when there is an election to limit the mud slinging and all ... we have 1 dem and 1 rep with the winner being pres and the looser as vice.
 
I don't think you would have been a Republican back then, as you don't believe in a limited Constitutional government. My guess is you would have fallen in with the Federalists. That's just my opinion though from your posts on this board, you certainly know yourself better than I do.

Also, Thomas Jefferson did not want to go to war with France. Jefferson was a French sympathizer, but opted to follow Washington's and Adams' example and remain neutral in France's conflict with Britain.

Oh yes I do believe in limited Constitutional government. See, this issue was brought up because your party, the GOP, turned their backs on Katina victims. Keep in mind a year before they rolled out the red carpet when Jeb's state got demolished. I wish I had the list of what the Federal Government sent to Florida vs. what they sent to help the poor people in NO.

So your party is all for limited government power/responsibility when it's to help us, but when it's to help their buddies on wallstreet, they are for BIG GOVERNMENT beurocracy.

So this argument you keep having with me about personal responsibility and the governments role in our lives, are just responses to your party fucking up. It's their MO. They fuck up and spin it so that it is not their fault. Or they change the subject. Attack your accusers. Make it so no one else will ever challange you for fear that you'll run their name into the ground too.

Accuse me of not taking personal responsibility. When I bitch because the government is fucking us, say i'm a whiner, but here you are saying that the Democrats are going to fuck us. But the GOP never fucked us?

Something in your chemical make up/genes makes you conservative. Something makes me liberal.

I might be easily suckered into giving money to people who don't deserve it, but you are suckered into giving your money to people who don't need it.

So stop with all the personal responsibility crap. I'm taking responsibility. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. So are the rest of us. So are you. And we've tightened up our purse strings. Notice the crappy holiday numbers so far?

All the tax breaks and companies are still not hiring?

How's business?

The rich are even getting fucked. There is no good place for them to put their money right now. Have you heard rich people are buying 10 year government bonds at zero percent interest? What did they do wrong?

Have you heard many people would like to make a move, only they can't because they can't sell their homes right now.

Time for you to realize massa was abusing you. Help is here though. Just 26 days away. Hold on. Then you will see what the Governments role is.
 
Might be a little off topic, but in reference to the two parties why when there is an election to limit the mud slinging and all ... we have 1 dem and 1 rep with the winner being pres and the looser as vice.

Do you want that? I almost do too. I'd like it if Obama were the President and McCain was the VP. I would like the VP to be the President's political opponent and watch over his decisions.

Then the president might not lie us into war, because the VP would tell. Chaney sure wasn't going to tell on Bush.

I'm sure both ways have their pro's and con's. Of course Obama would shut McCain out of all serious policy meetings, etc.

But no, you aren't off topic. That's how it was back when Washington was President. The second most votes was VP.
 
great documentary. isn't it the one that exposes Jefferson as a nit wit when it comes to certain ideas?

I'm not sure. I don't think this one made him look like a nit wit. It made him seem like an arrogant cocky southern aristocrat who came from money.

My friend is one of the leaders of the Michigan Republican Party, if you can believe that. We graduated high school together, have mutual friends and talk thru Facebook. He said there was a 7 part documentary on Adams. This one was about John and Abigale Adams and was maybe 2 hours long.

So no, probably not the same documentary.
 
I always thought the letters between Abigail and John were most interesting. Abigail certainly shows herself to be one of the pioneers of feminism in the US. We went through a series of them in American Political Thought class in college.

Also, the letters between Jefferson and Adams in their later years were very interesting as they both watched what the country turned into. Their comments were also interesting from a North/South and City/Country point of view.

Since nobody has mentioned it on this thread, I will. One of the greatest ironies in American history, both Adams and Jefferson died on the same day (July 4, 1826). Jefferson's last words, "At least Adams survives."
 

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