Joe Mauer: AL MVP

[Xenophon]

Girardi shouldn't be in the same discussion as these guys. Girardi threw the best team on the field day in and day out and got the results that were expected.

Not only is that not fair its not true.

Giradi arranged his pitchers so that his bullpen was rested and his three starters would be his ONLY starters all through the playoffs.

It was one of the BEST handling of a staff overall i have seen in years and he deserves full credit for it working.

If money was the issue, the yankees would be chanps every year after beating teh Mets in teh World series, and they have the biggest payrolls.

And remmeber, Torre would have LOST with this Yankee team.

 

[Paulie]

I don't think there's a better example of that these days than Lincecum.

Greinke this past year is certainly another one.

Both were bad picks.

The kid in seattle had three more wins and was only .15 higher in ERA then Grinke, he was clearly the winner.

And the two Card pitchers were BOTH better then Tim and didn't get the nod.

A lot of the awards were questionable, like manager of the year in the AL.

Socia wins it when he had no compition in his devision and lost in the playoffs?

Giradi or Gardenhire both did better.

It was like retrads voted this year.

You do realize that knowledgeable baseball fans think people like you are clueless?

Wins and losses are the last thing that reflects upon a starting pitcher. There are too many variables that can prevent a starting pitcher from attaining a personal win. A starting pitcher does not have control over how his defense plays, how his offense hits, or how his bullpen pitches.

I can't believe this is a real discussion! I feel like I'm teaching 5 year olds the game of baseball.

Says the guy who thinks Fielder had a 'mediocre' glove this year, while putting up a better UZR than the AL gold glove winner, and posting identical if not better numbers than Adrian Gonzalez in the main fielding categories.

I'd be willing to give you a pass on that ridiculous retarded bullshit if you admitted you fucked up by bringing up UZR as an indicator of Fielder's so-called 'mediocre' glove in the face of Tex's UZR.

 

[SenseCommon]

Both were bad picks.

The kid in seattle had three more wins and was only .15 higher in ERA then Grinke, he was clearly the winner.

And the two Card pitchers were BOTH better then Tim and didn't get the nod.

A lot of the awards were questionable, like manager of the year in the AL.

Socia wins it when he had no compition in his devision and lost in the playoffs?

Giradi or Gardenhire both did better.

It was like retrads voted this year.

You do realize that knowledgeable baseball fans think people like you are clueless?

Wins and losses are the last thing that reflects upon a starting pitcher. There are too many variables that can prevent a starting pitcher from attaining a personal win. A starting pitcher does not have control over how his defense plays, how his offense hits, or how his bullpen pitches.

I can't believe this is a real discussion! I feel like I'm teaching 5 year olds the game of baseball.

Says the guy who thinks Fielder had a 'mediocre' glove this year, while putting up a better UZR than the AL gold glove winner, and posting identical if not better numbers than Adrian Gonzalez in the main fielding categories.

I'd be willing to give you a pass on that ridiculous retarded bullshit if you admitted you fucked up by bringing up UZR as an indicator of Fielder's so-called 'mediocre' glove in the face of Tex's UZR.

I stated that Fielder had a good UZR this season before you did. Go back in the thread moron. You stole that from me.

 

[Andrew2382]

first of all you can't say that Torre isn't a hall of fame manager in one breath and say that wins/losses are the most important stat for a pitcher.

THe most important stat for a manager as well you can argue is wins/losses and Torre has one of the best percentages in baseball

he is for sure a hall of fame manager

Girardi is a fucking too.

It's not that difficult to rest your pitchers like CC toward the end of the season when you have a comfortable lead in the division.

Girardi is a fucking moron regardless if he won the series. The Yanks won despite his stupidity because they had the mos talent.

 

[Paulie]

You do realize that knowledgeable baseball fans think people like you are clueless?

Wins and losses are the last thing that reflects upon a starting pitcher. There are too many variables that can prevent a starting pitcher from attaining a personal win. A starting pitcher does not have control over how his defense plays, how his offense hits, or how his bullpen pitches.

I can't believe this is a real discussion! I feel like I'm teaching 5 year olds the game of baseball.

Says the guy who thinks Fielder had a 'mediocre' glove this year, while putting up a better UZR than the AL gold glove winner, and posting identical if not better numbers than Adrian Gonzalez in the main fielding categories.

I'd be willing to give you a pass on that ridiculous retarded bullshit if you admitted you fucked up by bringing up UZR as an indicator of Fielder's so-called 'mediocre' glove in the face of Tex's UZR.

I stated that Fielder had a good UZR this season before you did. Go back in the thread moron. You stole that from me.

The sheer IRONY of you claiming anything was 'stolen'

You only said he had a 'better' UZR this season compared to others. You obviously NEVER took into consideration that his better-than-Tex's UZR made your statement of 'mediocre' look ridiculous.

Just shut the fuck up and quit while you're behind, bitch

 

[SenseCommon]

Says the guy who thinks Fielder had a 'mediocre' glove this year, while putting up a better UZR than the AL gold glove winner, and posting identical if not better numbers than Adrian Gonzalez in the main fielding categories.

I'd be willing to give you a pass on that ridiculous retarded bullshit if you admitted you fucked up by bringing up UZR as an indicator of Fielder's so-called 'mediocre' glove in the face of Tex's UZR.

I stated that Fielder had a good UZR this season before you did. Go back in the thread moron. You stole that from me.

The sheer IRONY of you claiming anything was 'stolen'

You only said he had a 'better' UZR this season compared to others. You obviously NEVER took into consideration that his better-than-Tex's UZR made your statement of 'mediocre' look ridiculous.

Just shut the fuck up and quit while you're behind, bitch

You have yet address anything I've ripped you to shreds with. Please, continue to hide!

 

[Paulie]

I stated that Fielder had a good UZR this season before you did. Go back in the thread moron. You stole that from me.

The sheer IRONY of you claiming anything was 'stolen'

You only said he had a 'better' UZR this season compared to others. You obviously NEVER took into consideration that his better-than-Tex's UZR made your statement of 'mediocre' look ridiculous.

Just shut the fuck up and quit while you're behind, bitch

You have yet address anything I've ripped you to shreds with. Please, continue to hide!

Ripped me to shreds? Hey, if nothing else, you're giving me a good laugh. I'll take what I can get from someone like you.

You made yourself look like a fool. You're new, it's not too late to save face and move on. Next week, no one will remember but me.

 

[SenseCommon]

The sheer IRONY of you claiming anything was 'stolen'

You only said he had a 'better' UZR this season compared to others. You obviously NEVER took into consideration that his better-than-Tex's UZR made your statement of 'mediocre' look ridiculous.

Just shut the fuck up and quit while you're behind, bitch

You have yet address anything I've ripped you to shreds with. Please, continue to hide!

Ripped me to shreds? Hey, if nothing else, you're giving me a good laugh. I'll take what I can get from someone like you.

You made yourself look like a fool. You're new, it's not too late to save face and move on. Next week, no one will remember but me.

Ahhhh, the ignorance of the retarded, truly is blissss!

You state that the amount of errors, and a players fielding percentage, are what distinguishes him from other defenders.

You state that it was a toss-up between Fielder and Pujols for the NL MVP. Pujols UNANIMOUSLY wins, while Fielder finishes FOURTH.

Then you say that Wins are what distinguished good starting pitchers.

Is this a real debate, or am I just dreaming this non-sense?

 

[SenseCommon]

Where's your idiot friend Xenophon hiding?

He's stated that Joe Torre isn't a hall of famer...

That Wins are what makes a starting pitcher good....

That Johan Santana has underperformed with the Mets...

That Zack Greinke and Tim Lincecum shouldn't have won the CY Young award for their respective leagues, because they lacked Wins....

 

[Xenophon]

first of all you can't say that Torre isn't a hall of fame manager in one breath and say that wins/losses are the most important stat for a pitcher.

THe most important stat for a manager as well you can argue is wins/losses and Torre has one of the best percentages in baseball

he is for sure a hall of fame manager

Girardi is a fucking too.

It's not that difficult to rest your pitchers like CC toward the end of the season when you have a comfortable lead in the division.

Girardi is a fucking moron regardless if he won the series. The Yanks won despite his stupidity because they had the mos talent.

It still cracks me up how you hate Giradi!

You know why i say that about Torre, without Zimmer he's nothing.

 

[Paulie]

You have yet address anything I've ripped you to shreds with. Please, continue to hide!

Ripped me to shreds? Hey, if nothing else, you're giving me a good laugh. I'll take what I can get from someone like you.

You made yourself look like a fool. You're new, it's not too late to save face and move on. Next week, no one will remember but me.

Ahhhh, the ignorance of the retarded, truly is blissss!

You state that the amount of errors, and a players fielding percentage, are what distinguishes him from other defenders.

You state that it was a toss-up between Fielder and Pujols for the NL MVP. Pujols UNANIMOUSLY wins, while Fielder finishes FOURTH.

Then you say that Wins are what distinguished good starting pitchers.

Is this a real debate, or am I just dreaming this non-sense?

Since when does how the writers vote really make or break what someone actually deserved?

How many fucking years has there been where someone completely deserving got snubbed for votes?

Do we REALLY have to debate such nonsense?

Pujols deserved the award you fucking douche. All I was trying to do was state a case for Fielder to be considered. That the WRITERS didn't agree means jack fucking SHIT to me.

Apparently you've got baseball writer penis envy, because GOD FORBID a fucking WRITER didn't agree

Go to bed, junior. It's getting late, even on a non-school night.

 

[SenseCommon]

first of all you can't say that Torre isn't a hall of fame manager in one breath and say that wins/losses are the most important stat for a pitcher.

THe most important stat for a manager as well you can argue is wins/losses and Torre has one of the best percentages in baseball

he is for sure a hall of fame manager

Girardi is a fucking too.

It's not that difficult to rest your pitchers like CC toward the end of the season when you have a comfortable lead in the division.

Girardi is a fucking moron regardless if he won the series. The Yanks won despite his stupidity because they had the mos talent.

It still cracks me up how you hate Giradi!

You know why i say that about Torre, without Zimmer he's nothing.

I'm actually praying that this a a joke. Based from all that you've stated so far, I can see it being a serious statement on your part, however.

 

[Paulie]

ANYWAY...

Now that the lil one has apparently been put down in his crib...

Congrats on the MVP, Dude. It's not the WS trophy, but it gets you through an offseason. It got me through the remainder of '06 with Howard, until pitchers and catchers

 

[SenseCommon]

Did this thread really take place? It couldn't have, could it? I'm not really debating baseball with two guys who think "Wins" are the most important stat for a starting pitcher, am I? Two guys who think fielding percentage and errors, are important stats in determining good defensive players? Guys that thought the NL MVP was a "toss-up" between Albert Pujols and Prince Fielder? Am I really talking to guys who think Joe Torre isn't a hall of fame manager? Guys that think Zack Greinke and Tim Lincecum, didn't deserve to win the CY Young award for their respective leagues?

Na, none of this could have taken place, could it?

 

[Paulie]

Yeah dude, you go ahead and latch onto your new-fangled stats like UZR that come complete with margins for error , and others that have been created in more recent times, probably by players union and agents so that the stats can be used as ammo to negotiate even more inflated salaries for a contract.

I'll stick with the simple mathematical formula of put outs divided by total chances to come up with a definitive number of how affective a player is at getting outs.

Do you want to continue latching on to UZR in Fielder's case in light of how that blew up in your face?

Please do while it's still got humor value.

 

[SenseCommon]

Paulie, I'm embarrassed at your desperation! I've ripped every silly, naive, uneducated baseball statement you've made in this thread. Any knowledgeable baseball fan will look at the things that've you written in this thread, and laugh. It's embarrassing how out of touch you are with baseball. At least that other idiot, xenophon, realized how dumb he sounded, and shut-up. But you desperately keep trying to go on....

As for your UZR statement, for which you keep trying to hold on to...

You stole Fielder's UZR from me, LOL. I'm the one who first mentioned that Fielder's UZR was good. You don't even know what UZR is. Furthermore, UZR is not the only defensive efficiency measurement. I listed the others that helped judge that.

Your original statement was that "Pujols and Fielder both have good gloves". I told you how mediocre Fielder's glove is, despite having a good UZR this season. Check out Fielder's other defensive sabermetrics, and compare. Besides, Pujols UZR and defensive sabermetrics are much better than Fileder's this season anyway.

As for Teixeira, he did not deserve his gold glove. The voters continue to have trouble handing out the gold glove to deserving players. They just simply give it out to the players they are used to giving it to. Tori Hunter and Derick Jeter, WERE NOT deserving winners this season. Voters just went back to giving it to the same old names. Players like John McDonald and Franklen Gutierez get robbed, because they aren't as good offensively, and aren't as sexy names. Again, Teixeira did NOT deserve the gold glove. He was actually very average defensively this season. It's a shame that the voters can't get the gold gloves right, year after year.

So Paulie, stop embarrassing yourself. Stop being so desperate. You are an out of touch baseball fan, who doesn't know how to qualify the good, and the bad. You are uneducated on the entire subject, and need to take my advice, and stop while you are ahead! Read up, and learn the game!

 

[Andrew2382]

I will agree that Jeter didn't probably deserve his gold glove but I will say that Tex deserved his.

The scouting report on Teixeira is that of a Gold Glove caliber first baseman, and this incongruence between the numbers and the scouts brings me to my point. I love statistics, and use them liberally when it comes to hitting. However, in regard to defense, they are best used in conjunction with scouting reports, with neither element holding greater weight. Defensive metrics are surprisingly subjective, as they often include judgments made by an official scorer. Because they are a very inexact science, treating them as definitive or significantly better than scouting reports seems a bit silly. To some degree, we have to trust our eyes to properly place Teixeira on the spectrum of defensive ability.

it’s worth noting that ZR and UZR don’t capture a 1B’s ability to scoop bad throws or to chase down foul popups, which are probably worth a few runs.

I know that Derek Jeter is bad defensively because I can easily observe his lack of range, and the numbers confirm that. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that Brett Gardner is the second coming of Willie Mays given his poor routes to balls, and I think that the defensive metrics probably overrate him a bit. Ultimately, it is important to find some sort of balance between the scouting reports and the metrics. Otherwise, there is no way that you can form an accurate conception of a player’s defensive ability.

 

[SenseCommon]

I will agree that Jeter didn't probably deserve his gold glove but I will say that Tex deserved his.

The scouting report on Teixeira is that of a Gold Glove caliber first baseman, and this incongruence between the numbers and the scouts brings me to my point. I love statistics, and use them liberally when it comes to hitting. However, in regard to defense, they are best used in conjunction with scouting reports, with neither element holding greater weight. Defensive metrics are surprisingly subjective, as they often include judgments made by an official scorer. Because they are a very inexact science, treating them as definitive or significantly better than scouting reports seems a bit silly. To some degree, we have to trust our eyes to properly place Teixeira on the spectrum of defensive ability.

it’s worth noting that ZR and UZR don’t capture a 1B’s ability to scoop bad throws or to chase down foul popups, which are probably worth a few runs.

I know that Derek Jeter is bad defensively because I can easily observe his lack of range, and the numbers confirm that. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that Brett Gardner is the second coming of Willie Mays given his poor routes to balls, and I think that the defensive metrics probably overrate him a bit. Ultimately, it is important to find some sort of balance between the scouting reports and the metrics. Otherwise, there is no way that you can form an accurate conception of a player’s defensive ability.

You are right, defensive sabermetircs still have plenty of holes. But for now, they are the best way possible to judge a players defense. To rely of scouts or fans opinion would be naive. Because in the end, those scouts, and those fan, are only able to really see one (using our example) first baseman play the entire season. Maybe, at most, they get to see a hand-full of games by another 1B. So a scout, or anyone for that matter, can only have a large sample of one player per position. Nobody is watching every game, of every team.

Tex is solid at 1B, but he's not a gold glover anymore. As dumb as it sounds, and it's a negative reflection on the voters, Tex got the gold glove because of his bat. And Jeter getting the gold glove is a flat out joke. I'll give you credit for admitting that, and not being a homer. Most baseball fans aren't that way!

It's a shame, but it always seems like the wrong guys get the gold glove. Oh well!

What big moves do you think the Yankees have up their sleeve this off-season, Andrew?

 

[Paulie]

I love how the voters choose the wrong players for gold gloves, but somehow they apparently always make the RIGHT choices for MVP...right NoCommonSense?

Stole...that's fucking rich, dude. YOU'RE the idiot who used UZR and got nutted in the face by your own stupid logic. I didn't even have to DO anything, you dug that hole yourself.

I'll go fucking toe to toe with you on baseball any fucking day of the week, son. Go finish your cotton candy, sweet heart.

 

[Andrew2382]

I like Matt Holliday. he's young, above average fielder with an above average arm.

Yankees outfield blows ass as is.

I'd like to see an offer of 90-100 mill over 6 years (15-17 a year) you can throw in incentives with an option.

I'd like to see him batting behind A-rod giving him some protection...even though his stints in the AL are far from stellar I still like him. Just my personal opinion.

I don't see the Yanks going after Halladay, apparently Blue Jays want Jesus Montero and Hughes and/or Joba

Not worth it to me for a guy who is reaching the twilight and is going to demand 20 mill+ a year. Thats the old yankee thinking (2000-08) which got us nothing.

I'd like to see how much money Lackey wants to see thrown his way.

I think the Joba experiment needs to end. He does not have the arm strength to be a reliable starting pitcher. He had arm trouble in the minors and is still showing it. Joba was starting to get back to form towards the end games of hte playoffs coming out of the pen hitting 95-97 a few times on the gun.

I would like to see them work Hughes back into the rotation as a #4 starter preferably. He has the stuff, I don't think anyone questions that...he needs to get his head right and have Joba set it up for Mo to make it a 7/8 inning game.

Damon- Last I heard Boras is asking for Jeter type money for Damon. Not gonna happen, sorry Johnny. He wants a big pay day cause he lost millions in a ponzi scheme in texas but he isn't getting 18-20 mill a year.

I read Yankees are really interested in Aroldis Chapman which from what I read on him, he is an absolute stud.

I don't know where Halladay is going to go. I don't think the Red Sox are stupid enough to trade Bucholz and Casey kelly for 1 year of Halladay plus a long term deal of 20 mill a year plus.

Be a bad move long term