Janet Reno Dies

[JoeB131]

Yes, every post you make merely shows what crazy and stupid can come up with they are hosted by the same tiny little mind, such as yours. The evidence is overwhelming that the davidians did not commit suicide. But leave it to a crazy baby burning prick like you to ignore that. Makes it easier for you to burn the next bunch.

Right... so you had three investigations that stated that the Davidians committed mass suicide.

Not to mention- the 2000 trial that cleared the government of any wrongdoing.

Government Cleared in Deaths at Waco

The judge, Walter Smith Jr. of Federal District Court in Waco, issued an order that found that federal agents had acted legally and could not be held liable for the deaths. His ruling ended a legal battle that lasted nearly seven years and came after an advisory jury in the case and a special counsel, former Senator John C. Danforth, both issued similar findings in July.

The Associated Press reported that Judge Smith wrote in his order that no Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents ''fired any shot nor used any force against residents of the compound and the Davidians that was unprovoked.''

''Gunfire was directed at A.T.F. agents by both male and female adult Davidians,'' the judge wrote. ''No A.T.F. agent fired any shot nor used any force against residents of the compound and the Davidians that was indiscriminate.''

 

[westwall]

Yes, every post you make merely shows what crazy and stupid can come up with they are hosted by the same tiny little mind, such as yours. The evidence is overwhelming that the davidians did not commit suicide. But leave it to a crazy baby burning prick like you to ignore that. Makes it easier for you to burn the next bunch.

Right... so you had three investigations that stated that the Davidians committed mass suicide.

Not to mention- the 2000 trial that cleared the government of any wrongdoing.

Government Cleared in Deaths at Waco

The judge, Walter Smith Jr. of Federal District Court in Waco, issued an order that found that federal agents had acted legally and could not be held liable for the deaths. His ruling ended a legal battle that lasted nearly seven years and came after an advisory jury in the case and a special counsel, former Senator John C. Danforth, both issued similar findings in July.

The Associated Press reported that Judge Smith wrote in his order that no Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents ''fired any shot nor used any force against residents of the compound and the Davidians that was unprovoked.''

''Gunfire was directed at A.T.F. agents by both male and female adult Davidians,'' the judge wrote. ''No A.T.F. agent fired any shot nor used any force against residents of the compound and the Davidians that was indiscriminate.''

Oh shit. Color me shocked that the government clears itself in an investigation of ITSELF.

You're a fucking moron of the first order.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh shit. Color me shocked that the government clears itself in an investigation of ITSELF.

You're a fucking moron of the first order.

So, um, why didn't George W. Bush reopen the Waco investigation to make sure justice was done if this was such an obvious injustice?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

thats two farts on this page so far from the troll.

thats the only kind of replies that he should be given on this thread for now on,everything else is a waste of time since he is just trying to get reactions out of us.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

whether Koresh started the fire? seriously dude? Although you have looked into this obviously and done a lot of research no doubt doesnt sound like you have seen that video I have mentioned many times "just to watch it go ignored by him" where it shows an army tank with a flame thrower mounted on top STARTING the fire shooting flames onto the compound? so there is obviously no question clinton and the government lied and that our government started the fire.

My point is even if Koresh did start the fire, the fact is the feds had stated many times they believed Koresh was a dangerous psychopath -- plus the feds knew there were dozens of innocent kids in that building, yet they took steps they had to know would provoke him.

So either way the feds are responsible for the death of those kids. They behaved like cold-blooded Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto, showing absolutely no concern for the safety of innocent children.

I'm not interested in arguing who, what and how that fire actually started. My point is all the feds had to do to prevent it was to back off and wait. But they chose to assert their authority with no regard for the likely consequences.

yeah I see what you mean good point.

 

[JoeB131]

thats the only kind of replies that he should be given on this thread for now on,everything else is a waste of time since he is just trying to get reactions out of us.

yeah, it's fun to watch you guys defend the kiddy-diddling cultists of Waco.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Oh shit. Color me shocked that the government clears itself in an investigation of ITSELF.

You're a fucking moron of the first order.

So, um, why didn't George W. Bush reopen the Waco investigation to make sure justice was done if this was such an obvious injustice?

I know I said i wasnt going to feed the asshole anymore but i cant help myself in the fact he has outdone himself this time worse than all the previous posts COMBINED-hee hee,

the fact that the moron ignores facts that there is no difference in the two parties,that both parties are corrupt because its a ONE PARTY SYSTEM designed to look like two,only the brainwashed sheep still asleep havent awakened to that.

even many blacks who were gung ho over Obama thinking he was different than all the other presidents we have had who have all been corrupt since JFK our last REAL president who served the people instead of the bankers and paid the price for it as a result gunned down by the CIA for not being their puppet doing what they told him to do which every president since then has been which is why THEY have all stayed alive.

those ignorant blacks who somehow thought Obama was different and the next JFK even THEY found out that he was a criminal and liar no different than Bush.He lied about everything he said he was going to DO saying he was going to reverse Bushs policys but not only did he continue them,he EXPANDED upon them.

fucking moron of the first order indeed.

oh and not to mention as well the Clintons and Bushs have been long time pals dating back to at least his days in office as governor or arkansas when Bush sr was vice president under Reagan.

There have been countless photos posted over the years of the Bushs and Clintons going golfing and canoeing together.

One former bodyguard of Clintons who was his bodyguard dating back to his days in office as governor he even wrote a book about it and the book shows PHOTOS of the Bushs flown in from a helicopter having a party with the Clintons having a jolly old good time together.

anybody interested in that book,pm me and I'll give you the title of it.


does this troll ever get tired of his constant ass beatings around here all the time?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I dont bother with a retarded prick who refuses to look at the facts that 9/11 was an inside job and there is not a shread of evidence that 19 muslims were behind it all.countless threads have been posted in the conspiracy section and have spelled it out dummies style for people like you proving beyond a doubt it was a home grown plot carried out by the CIA.

Okay, if you are really the kind of crazy who thinks that 9/11 was an inside job, I don't think there's much hope for you.

If you are the kind of crazy who doesn't think 9/11 was an inside job, and that free fall speeds don't contradict the Law of Conservation of Momentum, then there is not much hope for you.
.

If you are the kind of crazy who doesn't think 9/11 was an inside job, and that free fall speeds don't contradict the Law of Conservation of Momentum, then there is not much hope for you.
.[/QUOTE]


You nailed it,could not have said it better myself.Thats WHY I dont get WHY people are STILL bothering with this shill.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

[...]

Because drug addled cultists are such reliable witnesses.

[...]

Where did the notion that the Davidians were "drug-addled cultists" come from? If you'd like to speak intelligently on this subject you should spend some time learning something about it. The Davidians were not drug users. Aside from their unusual religious conviction they were relatively normal individuals. Their ranks included two lawyers, two school-teachers and for the most part ordinary working class people, most of whom were engaged in one way or another in a mail-order gun business. Seven of them held valid FFL (Federal Firearms Licenses) and were accomplished gunsmiths.

One thing you should know is the BATF had planted an undercover agent in the Davidian residence for several weeks before pulling that unnecessary and largely unlawful raid. If there was any drug activity in that residence don't you think the DEA would have been involved?

you know he is grasping at straws consulting with his handlers on what to post next the fact you took him to school so well there.lol

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Oh shit. Color me shocked that the government clears itself in an investigation of ITSELF.

You're a fucking moron of the first order.

So, um, why didn't George W. Bush reopen the Waco investigation to make sure justice was done if this was such an obvious injustice?

oh in case pos# 87 was too complicated for you since you obviously have reading comprehension problems,dont you EVER get tired of doing this- everyday at this site?








Barbara Bush has even publicly said Bill is like a second son to her.

It doesnt take a genius to figure out WHY the independent never gets elected.
cant have someone serving the people instead of the bankers for president.

 

[MikeK]

Yes, but you see, here's the thing. The people who wrote those books didn't have the physical evidence. Multiple agencies (not just the FBI and ATF) investigated Waco and all of them concluded it was a mass suicide.

I see.

You are saying law-enforcement entities never manipulate and fabricate evidence and lie to justify their illegal and improper actions?

Okay.

 

[MikeK]

So, um, why didn't George W. Bush reopen the Waco investigation to make sure justice was done if this was such an obvious injustice?

I'm surprised you would ask that question.

For a President to tamper with the federal law-enforcement bureaucracy there must necessarily be some inescapable pressure to do so. You might as well ask why Clinton didn't order the FBI to step down at Waco. (Ever wonder why Woodward and Bernstein had such a hard time pulling the covers off Nixon re: Watergate?)

The reason for this consistent complicity would be summarized by my profane Dutch granny who would tell you, "They all shit in the same pot and wipe each others' asses."

 

[westwall]

thats the only kind of replies that he should be given on this thread for now on,everything else is a waste of time since he is just trying to get reactions out of us.

yeah, it's fun to watch you guys defend the kiddy-diddling cultists of Waco.

Nobody has ONCE defended them. What we have decried is the senseless slaughter of 20 kids who were 15 and under, that YOU not only support, but celebrate. You are a fucked up individual.

 

[westwall]

So, um, why didn't George W. Bush reopen the Waco investigation to make sure justice was done if this was such an obvious injustice?

I'm surprised you would ask that question.

For a President to tamper with the federal law-enforcement bureaucracy there must necessarily be some inescapable pressure to do so. You might as well ask why Clinton didn't order the FBI to step down at Waco. (Ever wonder why Woodward and Bernstein had such a hard time pulling the covers off Nixon re: Watergate?)

The reason for this consistent complicity would be summarized by my profane Dutch granny who would tell you, "They all shit in the same pot and wipe each others' asses."

And joe b licks their asses clean.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

again, they walked up to the door. The Davidians knew they were ATF Agents. They got into a firefight, anyway.

There is a category of Americans who strongly support the stand the Davidians took against the oppressive actions of the federal law-enforcement bureaucracy. The first thing anyone who takes the time to research the facts in this horrific example of government oppression will learn is there was absolutely no reason for BATF to conduct that raid. None. The first question that should be asked is what did the Branch Davidians do to call for such a massive paramilitary operation? The answer is, nothing!

The only valid reason put forth by BATF to obtain a search warrant had to do with the charge that Koresh and the Davidian partners in his firearms business, all of whom were properly licensed, was in possession of and was selling fully automatic firearms. But no automatic firearms were recovered from the ruins at Waco and it was never shown that any such weapon existed or any such sale ever took place. The fact is Koresh was selling replacement receivers capable of transforming certain semi-automatic rifles into full-auto -- the sale of which, at that time, was perfectly legal.

That specification was the only partially valid item put forth in the affidavit submitted by ATF to obtain their warrant -- which was never presented to the Davidians prior to the attempted break-in. In fact it was never determined during the so-called Waco "hearings" which of the agents who arrived at the Davidians' front door, if any, was in possession of the warrant.

Every other specification on that warrant was either patently false or invalid -- such as the charge that Koresh was having sex with children, a complaint which had been thoroughly investigated by the local Sheriff and the Texas Department of Social Services and found to be without merit. Further, even if there was some valid basis for that complaint the BATF has as much jurisdiction to act upon such charges as does the Mexican Air Force.

Another bogus charge had to do with an illegal drug manufacturing operation which had nothing to to with Koresh or any member of the existing Branch Davidian group. It was a manifest example of mistaken identity which had been cleared by the local Sheriff long before ATF included it in their seriously flawed warrant affidavit.

The bottom line is any legitimate cause the BATF had to investigate Koresh could have been easily implemented by arresting him any Monday to Friday morning when he was known to walk into town and back home. All that was needed was two or three agents and a valid warrant. Instead the entire Davidian group and their children were attacked by dozens of masked paramilitary raiders in a massive operation which turned out to be one of the most egregious examples of unnecessarily brutal and murderous force perpetrated by the federal government against peaceful American citizens.

Again, the question is what did the Davidians do to provoke what the federal agents did to them? The answer is they defended their rights as peaceful citizens by refusing to submit to improperly imposed federal aggression.

 

[MikeK]

Okay, yeah, the ATF could have done it smarter. However, that still didn't give the Cultists the right to shoot at them. Especially since - they knew they were law enforcement.

According to the section of Texas Penal Law posted in a previous message the Davidians did have a right to shoot at those masked raiders who were heavily armed and attempting to break into their home.

As for the raiders' occupation, if a uniformed police officer is attempting to rape your sister and you bash his skull in are you subject to criticism because you knew he was a cop? Everyone does not share your apparent reverence for people with badges. In the final analysis these ATF goons were as wrong as two left feet.

You know, it's hilarious that you guys will defend every trigger happy cop who blows away a 12 year old playing with a toy, but want to villify these ATF and FBI agents who were handling a bunch of freaks with kid gloves.

Speaking for myself, I do not defend cops who behave outside the boundaries of appropriate conduct.

Regarding your "bunch of freaks" description, how much do you know about the Davidians to make such an offhand assessment of them? The fact that they did not share your personal values did not justify what happened to them. But the relevant question is whom did they harm? Aside from complaints made against Koresh by a former Davidian, actually the jealous husband of a Davidian woman who became one of Koresh's wives, what other complaints were made against them?

Do you know the local Sheriff and all their neighbors spoke very approvingly of the Davidians, calling them friendly, helpful and peaceful people?

The Davidians harmed no one -- and look what was done to them. Put your personal feelings aside and try to view the Waco Massacre from a more objective perspective -- focusing your attention on the kids who died there.

 

[JoeB131]

I know I said i wasnt going to feed the asshole anymore but i cant help myself in the fact he has outdone himself this time worse than all the previous posts COMBINED-hee hee,

the fact that the moron ignores facts that there is no difference in the two parties,that both parties are corrupt because its a ONE PARTY SYSTEM designed to look like two,only the brainwashed sheep still asleep havent awakened to that.

Then what are you even bothering to do here? It's like posting on a sports message board when you don't actually care about any of the teams.

Sadly, the internet gives the crazy a forum.

 

[JoeB131]

There is a category of Americans who strongly support the stand the Davidians took against the oppressive actions of the federal law-enforcement bureaucracy. The first thing anyone who takes the time to research the facts in this horrific example of government oppression will learn is there was absolutely no reason for BATF to conduct that raid. None. The first question that should be asked is what did the Branch Davidians do to call for such a massive paramilitary operation? The answer is, nothing!

They were illegally selling guns and kits to convert AR-15's into fully automatic M-16's. I'm sorry you anarchists don't get this, but most people don't want to share their streets with crazy, kiddy molesting cultists armed with machine guns.

 

[JoeB131]

According to the section of Texas Penal Law posted in a previous message the Davidians did have a right to shoot at those masked raiders who were heavily armed and attempting to break into their home.

Guy, that's horseshit. They knew they were ATF Agents. They even asked the undercover ATF Agent who had badly infiltrated them to go outside and talk them out of the raid.

Again, I find it amusing that the same wingnuts who will defend cops shooting unarmed black teens are making excuses for these nuts.

Criming While White, baby!!!

 

[MikeK]

They were illegally selling guns and kits to convert AR-15's into fully automatic M-16's. I'm sorry you anarchists don't get this, but most people don't want to share their streets with crazy, kiddy molesting cultists armed with machine guns.

At the time they were selling those conversion kits they were perfectly legal and the Shotgun News was full of ads for them. The stipulation was one must have a Federal license to own fully automatic weapons prior to implementing the kit. But so many people bought the kits and converted their AR-15s that the BATF had a law passed banning them in the late '70s.

Another kit the Davidians developed and sold was the Hellfire, which was a cute little rapid-return, spring-actuated device that screw-mounts onto the trigger guard and behind the trigger of any semi-auto .22. With proper adjustment and a little practice to acquire the proper feel on the trigger the device enabled rapidly repetitive kick-back action producing a full-auto effect. The problem was it worked so well with the Ruger 10-22 that with some practice one could run off nearly the entire 50-round magazine -- and burn the barrel out. (I found that out the hard way.)

The Hellfire was also perfectly legal. I don't know if anything like it is still legally available today.

Koresh was an FFL licensed firearms dealer, as was a number of other Davidians and they had an active mail-order business. Everything they sold was strictly legal. The reason BATF wanted to search their premises was the undercover's report that they were converting various semi-auto rifles into full auto. While I suspect that might have been true for development purposes the fact remains that no fully automatic rifles were recovered from the ruins -- although the FBI and the Texas Rangers conducted an exhaustive search.