James Madison, a framer of our constitution, warned of the dangers of extreme...

[regent]

The government the framers altered was powerless, so small it almost didn't exist the framers took that amost nonexistant government and made it into a powerful government, able to tax, to control, make war and on and on.
The framers were of different political pursuasions but they created a government based on the liberal period of their time, the Age of Enlightenment. Since that period, America has become even more liberal, too fast for some and not fast enough for others.

Liberal of the time has no correlation to what's liberal today. Today's liberal is a strong central government type with little if any state power. It's a disservice to call the founders liberal since we apply modern definitions to words.

Both liberalism and conervatism have core values and those core values do not change, the means to achieve those liberal core values do change however, and many mistake the changes to achieve libralism as the core values. Find the core values of each and what they want to achieve begins to make sense. The size of govenment is a mean to achieve what each party believes it is not part of the definition. Might read the Declaration of Independence for a clue to liberalism, but notice Jefferson changed property to happiness.

 

[Iceweasel]

Both liberalism and conervatism have core values and those core values do not change, the means to achieve those liberal core values do change however, and many mistake the changes to achieve libralism as the core values. Find the core values of each and what they want to achieve begins to make sense. The size of govenment is a mean to achieve what each party believes it is not part of the definition. Might read the Declaration of Independence for a clue to liberalism, but notice Jefferson changed property to happiness.

And since they did not create a strong central government is wrong to call them liberals. The size of government has everything to do with the respective philosophies, you can't divorce it from the ideologies.

 

[regent]

Both liberalism and conervatism have core values and those core values do not change, the means to achieve those liberal core values do change however, and many mistake the changes to achieve libralism as the core values. Find the core values of each and what they want to achieve begins to make sense. The size of govenment is a mean to achieve what each party believes it is not part of the definition. Might read the Declaration of Independence for a clue to liberalism, but notice Jefferson changed property to happiness.

And since they did not create a strong central government is wrong to call them liberals. The size of government has everything to do with the respective philosophies, you can't divorce it from the ideologies.

It is not the size of government but what the government does that is important. Even Jefferson and Madison began to view governments a little differently when they became the government. Will America ever go back to the days of no Social Security, no social programs, no more than we will go back to a government of kings nobles or a government that says the King rules by the grace of God.

 

[The T]

Keep stealing my labor to line your pockets scum capitalist. Day of the worker is coming soon...

What are you? One of those numbskulls that believe companies exist just to give people jobs with NO profit motive? Ain't the way the world works or human nature son. YOU are just a THUG.

 

[dcraelin]

Madison was a bit of a weasel. First seeming to side with Hamilton but then breaking away from Hamilton's Federalists and joining Jefferson's original Republicans.

Jefferson used the word wolves to describe the governments of Europe. "they have divided their nations into two classes,wolves and sheep. I do not exaggerate. "....."experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the governments of Europe, and to the general prey of the rich on the poor" Thomas Jefferson to Edward Carrington Paris Jan.16.1787

Your quote doesn't back up your claim against the father of the Constitution. I guess if you can't misquote him, might as well dismiss him.

History books back up my claim that Madison changed sides. My quote just shows Jefferson's opinion, and he was the real leader of the first Republican party.

 

[LeftofLeft]

...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers or republicans in general for that matter. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.

Have you checked the Nation's wealth distribution in North Korea, Cuba, and Mexico? What do the bottom 99 percent of those countries' earners own? How are those countries' Middle Classes doing?

 

[O.R.I.O.N]

Who is stealing your labor, and how are they doing it?

You know, you're really scary.

I hope so.


Nope. Getting our fair share is not theft or communistic its FAIR! Get used to it.

It's both. How did you determine that your "fair share" is more than you agreed to?

Or get run over. We know you hate the poor and want to keep us that way but there are more of us then there is of you.

thanks for proving to the entire forum that leftists are nothing more than cheap thugs.

Pointing a gun at someones head and say either sign the contract for minimum wage or starve is HARDLY fair...hey we resort to whatever it takes to get what's ours...get used to it.

Keep stealing my labor to line your pockets scum capitalist. Day of the worker is coming soon...

What are you? One of those numbskulls that believe companies exist just to give people jobs with NO profit motive? Ain't the way the world works or human nature son. YOU are just a THUG.

Nope. I don't believe 6 members of the Walton Family should be worth more than 40% of the US population. CEO's should NOT be making millions where there are workers of their companies on welfare to feed themselves and their families.

 

[Billy000]

...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers or republicans in general for that matter. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.

Such envy. So what is your answer there, big shot? Take their money and give it to the poor, ala Robin Hood? Do you REALLY believe that would EVER happen?

Grow up. There have AlWAYS been rich and there have ALWAYS been poor. The difference in the US is that you have a shot at a better life. It's up to you - that is until the left finally destroys the middle class.

Quit bellyaching and get a job. Oh, that's right - there AREN'T any jobs out there.....

Um no. I want fair wages.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers or republicans in general for that matter. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.

Funny how rich guys always worry about other people making more money than they do, isn't it?

 

[bripat9643]

Pointing a gun at someones head and say either sign the contract for minimum wage or starve is HARDLY fair...hey we resort to whatever it takes to get what's ours...get used to it.

Whose pointing a gun at your head? If that employer wasn't providing the job, then your options would be zero. Employers don't force you to work. Mother nature does.

Nope. I don't believe 6 members of the Walton Family should be worth more than 40% of the US population. CEO's should NOT be making millions where there are workers of their companies on welfare to feed themselves and their families.

I doubt your figures are correct. However, so what if they are? If those people don't want the job, then they can find a job somewhere else. The Waltons aren't just the CEOs. They're the owners. Their wealth comes from owning the stock in the company. They made the company what it is. Every dollar they have was obtained through voluntary exchange. Who are you to say they aren't entitled to every last one of them?

 

[The T]

Pointing a gun at someones head and say either sign the contract for minimum wage or starve is HARDLY fair...hey we resort to whatever it takes to get what's ours...get used to it.

Whose pointing a gun at your head? If that employer wasn't providing the job, then your options would be zero. Employers don't force you to work. Mother nature does.

Nope. I don't believe 6 members of the Walton Family should be worth more than 40% of the US population. CEO's should NOT be making millions where there are workers of their companies on welfare to feed themselves and their families.

I doubt your figures are correct. However, so what if they are? If those people don't want the job, then they can find a job somewhere else. The Waltons aren't just the CEOs. They're the owners. Their wealth comes from owning the stock in the company. They made the company what it is. Every dollar they have was obtained through voluntary exchange. Who are you to say they aren't entitled to every last one of them?

I hope so.


Nope. Getting our fair share is not theft or communistic its FAIR! Get used to it.

It's both. How did you determine that your "fair share" is more than you agreed to?



thanks for proving to the entire forum that leftists are nothing more than cheap thugs.

Pointing a gun at someones head and say either sign the contract for minimum wage or starve is HARDLY fair...hey we resort to whatever it takes to get what's ours...get used to it.

Keep stealing my labor to line your pockets scum capitalist. Day of the worker is coming soon...

What are you? One of those numbskulls that believe companies exist just to give people jobs with NO profit motive? Ain't the way the world works or human nature son. YOU are just a THUG.

Nope. I don't believe 6 members of the Walton Family should be worth more than 40% of the US population. CEO's should NOT be making millions where there are workers of their companies on welfare to feed themselves and their families.

It isn't YOUR money. Don't like what you're being paid? Go elsewhere to where it better suits you. Take the wealth envy crap and take a hike.

 

[RandallFlagg]

...wealth inequality.

"The day will come when our Republic will be an impossibility because wealth will be concentrated in the hands of a few. When that day comes, we must rely upon the wisdom of the best elements in the country to readjust the laws of the nation."

- James Madison

FACT: the top 1% of earners own 40% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 80% of earners own 7% of the nation's wealth.

A few things can be taken away from the above information.

The founding fathers wouldn't even have lunch with someone from the rightwing teabaggers or republicans in general for that matter. They obviously believed in government intervention where today's republicans are very much against. Truth be told the framers were the equivalent of modern day liberals.

Republicanism is one giant political lie.

Such envy. So what is your answer there, big shot? Take their money and give it to the poor, ala Robin Hood? Do you REALLY believe that would EVER happen?

Grow up. There have AlWAYS been rich and there have ALWAYS been poor. The difference in the US is that you have a shot at a better life. It's up to you - that is until the left finally destroys the middle class.

Quit bellyaching and get a job. Oh, that's right - there AREN'T any jobs out there.....

Um no. I want fair wages.

Well then, get off your ass and go make more money. No one is stopping you.Jesus - all you lefties want something handed to you......try EARNING IT!

 

[Billy000]

Such envy. So what is your answer there, big shot? Take their money and give it to the poor, ala Robin Hood? Do you REALLY believe that would EVER happen?

Grow up. There have AlWAYS been rich and there have ALWAYS been poor. The difference in the US is that you have a shot at a better life. It's up to you - that is until the left finally destroys the middle class.

Quit bellyaching and get a job. Oh, that's right - there AREN'T any jobs out there.....

Um no. I want fair wages.

Well then, get off your ass and go make more money. No one is stopping you.Jesus - all you lefties want something handed to you......try EARNING IT!

Tell me do you think it's fair that the minimum wage is not even $10 based on the amount of wealth that is being hoarded? Could you live on $400 a week?

You righty tighties are so out of touch with how the left thinks. My job has nothing to do with this asshole. I am not complaining about me. I am complaining about wages in general. The average age of a low level fast food worker is 29. Is that a good thing or a bad thing considering the record profits corporate America is making?

 

[The T]

Um no. I want fair wages.

Well then, get off your ass and go make more money. No one is stopping you.Jesus - all you lefties want something handed to you......try EARNING IT!

Tell me do you think it's fair that the minimum wage is not even $10 based on the amount of wealth that is being hoarded? Could you live on $400 a week?

You righty tighties are so out of touch with how the left thinks. My job has nothing to do with this asshole. I am not complaining about me. I am complaining about wages in general. The average age of a low level fast food worker is 29. Is that a good thing or a bad thing considering the record profits corporate America is making?

It isn't YOUR money. Want to command a higher wage? Then work hard, educate yourself, and you'll move up commensurate with your effort.

 

[Billy000]

Well then, get off your ass and go make more money. No one is stopping you.Jesus - all you lefties want something handed to you......try EARNING IT!

Tell me do you think it's fair that the minimum wage is not even $10 based on the amount of wealth that is being hoarded? Could you live on $400 a week?

You righty tighties are so out of touch with how the left thinks. My job has nothing to do with this asshole. I am not complaining about me. I am complaining about wages in general. The average age of a low level fast food worker is 29. Is that a good thing or a bad thing considering the record profits corporate America is making?

It isn't YOUR money. Want to command a higher wage? Then work hard, educate yourself, and you'll move up commensurate with your effort.

You people are so dumb. I just said I wasn't talking about my own situation.

I'll ask you T. Can you live on $10 an hour? Kids or not?

 

[The T]

Tell me do you think it's fair that the minimum wage is not even $10 based on the amount of wealth that is being hoarded? Could you live on $400 a week?

You righty tighties are so out of touch with how the left thinks. My job has nothing to do with this asshole. I am not complaining about me. I am complaining about wages in general. The average age of a low level fast food worker is 29. Is that a good thing or a bad thing considering the record profits corporate America is making?

It isn't YOUR money. Want to command a higher wage? Then work hard, educate yourself, and you'll move up commensurate with your effort.

You people are so dumb. I just said I wasn't talking about my own situation.

I'll ask you T. Can you live on $10 an hour? Kids or not?

It goes for ANYONE. What about that don't YOU understand? Oh, and if you can't afford KIDS? Don't have them until you can.

 

[Billy000]

Well then, get off your ass and go make more money. No one is stopping you.Jesus - all you lefties want something handed to you......try EARNING IT!

Tell me do you think it's fair that the minimum wage is not even $10 based on the amount of wealth that is being hoarded? Could you live on $400 a week?

You righty tighties are so out of touch with how the left thinks. My job has nothing to do with this asshole. I am not complaining about me. I am complaining about wages in general. The average age of a low level fast food worker is 29. Is that a good thing or a bad thing considering the record profits corporate America is making?

It isn't YOUR money. Want to command a higher wage? Then work hard, educate yourself, and you'll move up commensurate with your effort.

It isn't YOUR money. Want to command a higher wage? Then work hard, educate yourself, and you'll move up commensurate with your effort.

You people are so dumb. I just said I wasn't talking about my own situation.

I'll ask you T. Can you live on $10 an hour? Kids or not?

It goes for ANYONE. What about that don't YOU understand? Oh, and if you can't afford KIDS? Don't have them until you can.

You still haven't answered my question. Could you live on 10 an hour? Also, yes I agree one shouldn't have kids without having a good job. However, it still happens. Should those kids be punished for their parents mistakes? How about parents who already have kids who get laid off and are forced into a lower wage job. What is your solution for that? Many single parents can't afford to raise their kids despite having a full time job.

Hey guess what? If wages were higher, we would have less people on food stamps.

 

[The T]

Tell me do you think it's fair that the minimum wage is not even $10 based on the amount of wealth that is being hoarded? Could you live on $400 a week?

You righty tighties are so out of touch with how the left thinks. My job has nothing to do with this asshole. I am not complaining about me. I am complaining about wages in general. The average age of a low level fast food worker is 29. Is that a good thing or a bad thing considering the record profits corporate America is making?

It isn't YOUR money. Want to command a higher wage? Then work hard, educate yourself, and you'll move up commensurate with your effort.

You people are so dumb. I just said I wasn't talking about my own situation.

I'll ask you T. Can you live on $10 an hour? Kids or not?

It goes for ANYONE. What about that don't YOU understand? Oh, and if you can't afford KIDS? Don't have them until you can.

You still haven't answered my question. Could you live on 10 an hour? Also, yes I agree one shouldn't have kids without having a good job. However, it still happens. Should those kids be punished for their parents mistakes? How about parents who already have kids who get laid off and are forced into a lower wage job. What is your solution for that? Many single parents can't afford to raise their kids despite having a full time job.

Hey guess what? If wages were higher, we would have less people on food stamps.

Yeah nevermind that businesses have to survive. WHY do you insist on using the powers of the Imperial Federal government to make businesses BEND to your will? Do YOU ever take responsibility for yourself? That is what Liberty is all about son. Learn it, Live it, KNOW it.

 

[Billy000]

It isn't YOUR money. Want to command a higher wage? Then work hard, educate yourself, and you'll move up commensurate with your effort.

It goes for ANYONE. What about that don't YOU understand? Oh, and if you can't afford KIDS? Don't have them until you can.

You still haven't answered my question. Could you live on 10 an hour? Also, yes I agree one shouldn't have kids without having a good job. However, it still happens. Should those kids be punished for their parents mistakes? How about parents who already have kids who get laid off and are forced into a lower wage job. What is your solution for that? Many single parents can't afford to raise their kids despite having a full time job.

Hey guess what? If wages were higher, we would have less people on food stamps.

Yeah nevermind that businesses have to survive. WHY do you insist on using the powers of the Imperial Federal government to make businesses BEND to your will? Do YOU ever take responsibility for yourself? That is what Liberty is all about son. Learn it, Live it, KNOW it.

Do you just assume that EVERYONE is capable of getting a well paid job? In today's market are you really so dense to believe that? Low wage jobs have to be filled by someone. There will always be poor people with low wage jobs. 40 hours or not. Is that fair?

Again, could you live on 10 an hour?

 

[RandallFlagg]

I'll gladly answer your ridiculous question. Yes, I. could live on $10 an hour if it were just me. No Wife, no kids, no nothing. When I entered the workforce, I made $.80 per hour. I was 14. When I retired from my SECOND career, I was making $97,000 per year and my Wife was/is making $114,00 per year.

Sit on your ass and wait for IT to come to YOU. You'll spend an eternity waiting. Either make it happen for yourself, or wallow in self-pity. The choice is yours - but don't sit on your ass blaming those who busted their humps 7 days a week building a business for themselves and their families. It's unbecoming.