IYO, what's the most unbelievable thing about Jesus?

[The Irish Ram]

And unless YOU were there you can't say there was, right?

Where did I say it was? Are you trying to argue that the cause of the sun going dark has no natural explanation?

If the description of the sun "going dark" is from people not trained in the PROVEN sciences then I question the validity of someone saying the "sun went dark". IMHO

Oh Lord. These are people that lived according to the sun, moon, stars. They planted, harvested, charted courses, navigated, mapped on a flat disk, now on display, in precise detail, where all the stars were along with the comet that took out Sodom. They knew enough to know "sun went dark".

 

[Obamerican]

And was the temple curtain ripped from top to bottom,symbolizing that there was no longer a need for a priest to be between you and God? That the kingdom was indeed at hand?

If it became dark, there was a solar eclipse. There is nothing fantastic going on here, no magic. But it makes for a grand story, and one that would surely be passed down at least orally because of its entertainment value. This is common in all of the Bible. Good stories. Which helps for ideas to be carried on, over time.

Except for the fact that the moon and sun were nowhere near each other.
Let's use history to prove that a supernatural darkness did indeed occur. I already gave you the religion as WHY it occurred.


Phlegon's sixteen volume Collection of Olympiads and Chronicles as follows:

All which things agree with what happened at the time of our Saviour's passion. And so writes Phlegon, and excellent compiler of the Olympiads in his thirteenth book, saying: ÔIn the fourth year of the two hundred and second olympiad there was a great and extraordinary eclipse of the sun, distinguished among all that had happened before. At the sixth hour the day was turned into dark night, so that the stars in the heavens were seen, and there was an earthquake in Bithynia which overthrew many houses in the city of Nice.' So writes the above named author.

Furthermore, Phlegon indicated that the darkness that covered the earth began at the sixth hour, which is equivalent to our noon hour, is precisely the same time period as recorded in the Gospels in Matthew 27:45. The Christian writer Tertullian indicated that this supernatural darkness was recorded in the Roman archives that could still be consulted. "At the same time at noonday there was a great darkness. They thought it to be an eclipse, who did not know that this also was foretold concerning Christ. And some have denied it, not knowing the cause of such darkness. And yet you have that remarkable event recorded in your archives." Another writer, the martyr Lucian, spoke of the public archives which recorded these supernatural events as follows: "Look into your annals; there you will find that in the time of Pilate, when Christ suffered, the sun was obscured, and the light of the day was interrupted with darkness."

That is just one account. The "event" was even recorded in China.
The Jewish calender depends on the moon being nowhere near the sun when they celebrate Passover. The eclipse excuse isn't even close to a possibility.
And it didn't creep up on them either. WHAPPP! Darkness. And all those party goers stopped dead in their tracks. No one moved. It was so quiet that you could hear the blood dripping off of Christ and hitting the dirt. When the lights came back on, a Roman guard near the cross remarked, " We just crucified the Son of God."
No eclipse. Give me a better explanation........

Unless you were there you can't say there was not an eclipse. There were actually two different eclipses that would have been visible in Jerusalem around the time Jesus was crucified.

TWO eclipses? Do they happen that close together?

 

[Ernie S.]

For me, the least believable thing about Jesus as presented in Christian doctrine is his special divinity. Of course he was God (we all are), but in claiming a specially divine status for hm, Christians implicitly deny the divinity of each of us, and that's wrong. It also conflicts a number of things that Jesus himself said as reported in the Gospels.

There are a number of his alleged miracles, plus the virgin birth and the resurrection, that are runners-up, but that's the big unbelievable for me.

Jesus is the Divine Son of God. It is a lie given by satan saying we are all god. Anyone repeating that is a liar and a false prophet. The truth period is the Bible and Jesus. And no, I do not need to know any other truths, no other way to Heaven but through Jesus, period.

And right on cue: "This is true because I say it's true. I don't need any evidence to support it and I don't have any. If you disagree with me then you are an agent of Satan. Ignorance makes me better than you."

So predictable.

You see, that's where I have a problem with evangelicals. I believe anyone who lives a moral life and treats his fellow man decently has a pretty good shot at getting into heaven. Those, I believe have no shot, are those that militantly claim there is no heaven, or those that claim their's is the only path there. I find one as obnoxious as the other.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Jesus is the Divine Son of God. It is a lie given by Satan saying we are all god. Anyone repeating that is a liar and a false prophet. The truth period is the Bible and Jesus. And no, I do not need to know any other truths, no other way to Heaven but through Jesus, period.

And right on cue: "This is true because I say it's true. I don't need any evidence to support it and I don't have any. If you disagree with me then you are an agent of Satan. Ignorance makes me better than you."

So predictable.

You see, that's where I have a problem with evangelicals. I believe anyone who lives a moral life and treats his fellow man decently has a pretty good shot at getting into heaven. Those, I believe have no shot, are those that militantly claim there is no heaven, or those that claim their's is the only path there. I find one as obnoxious as the other.

So you believe you can work your way into Heaven? I wish God would have known that. It would have made the whole cross/forgiveness thing unnecessary. Is acceptance into Heaven based on a curve or do you have to complete a minimum amount of good deeds to qualify?

 

[Ernie S.]

And right on cue: "This is true because I say it's true. I don't need any evidence to support it and I don't have any. If you disagree with me then you are an agent of Satan. Ignorance makes me better than you."

So predictable.

You see, that's where I have a problem with evangelicals. I believe anyone who lives a moral life and treats his fellow man decently has a pretty good shot at getting into heaven. Those, I believe have no shot, are those that militantly claim there is no heaven, or those that claim their's is the only path there. I find one as obnoxious as the other.

So you believe you can work your way into Heaven? I wish God would have known that. It would have made the whole cross/forgiveness thing unnecessary. Is acceptance into Heaven based on a curve or do you have to complete a minimum amount of good deeds to qualify?

You are welcome to your beliefs. I'll see you there someday, provided you temper your belligerence a bit.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I don't mean to be belligerent. Sorry if you think I am. It's just that if I see a question I can answer, or an odd assumption I can refute, I just get to the point.
But I am welcome to your beliefs as well, because you posted them in a pubic forum. So I am curious as to why you believe what you do, because, you said good behavior can get you into Heaven, "probably". Why take the risk? Because I believe the content of the Bible, I can't be belligerent enough in warning you, that if you believe in Heaven then you must believe in He that created Heaven. And He said without a shadow of a doubt, the exact opposite of what you believe. I don't want you to go to Hell thinking you got gypped, cause all in all you were a pretty good guy, when what you really need to hear is what Jesus said. "No one goes to the Father except through me". Your works have nothing to do with it. Jesus has everything to do with it. Salvation is a gift. Where your soul is at stake, I have to be belligerent. It's that important.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Got it! You think the question shouldn't even be asked. Blind faith seems to be a powerful thing with you "believers".

Blind faith? You mean like eating at a restaurant believing you are safe because the government keeps you safe?

I actually follow the biblical exhortation to test my faith, I question it all the time. I have no obsessive need to start threads about it, or to defend the existence of God. Why does your worldview revolve around attempts to prove yourself smarter than others?

Sorry if I didn't clarify myself. I was wondering why you were offended whyy the original question was even asked?

How is pointing out that asking questions about things you do not believe in is a sign of idiocy an indication of offense? If I asked you about what you think caused the unicorns to die off would you be offended?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And unless YOU were there you can't say there was, right?

Where did I say it was? Are you trying to argue that the cause of the sun going dark has no natural explanation?

If the description of the sun "going dark" is from people not trained in the PROVEN sciences then I question the validity of someone saying the "sun went dark". IMHO

Who said the sun went dark? The Bible says the day went dark, not the sun. There are numerous possible explanations for that, yet you want to focus on what some one who was not there says, and use that as your reason for not believing the story. That just makes you look stupid.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Except for the fact that the moon and sun were nowhere near each other.
Let's use history to prove that a supernatural darkness did indeed occur. I already gave you the religion as WHY it occurred.


Phlegon's sixteen volume Collection of Olympiads and Chronicles as follows:

All which things agree with what happened at the time of our Saviour's passion. And so writes Phlegon, and excellent compiler of the Olympiads in his thirteenth book, saying: ÔIn the fourth year of the two hundred and second olympiad there was a great and extraordinary eclipse of the sun, distinguished among all that had happened before. At the sixth hour the day was turned into dark night, so that the stars in the heavens were seen, and there was an earthquake in Bithynia which overthrew many houses in the city of Nice.' So writes the above named author.

Furthermore, Phlegon indicated that the darkness that covered the earth began at the sixth hour, which is equivalent to our noon hour, is precisely the same time period as recorded in the Gospels in Matthew 27:45. The Christian writer Tertullian indicated that this supernatural darkness was recorded in the Roman archives that could still be consulted. "At the same time at noonday there was a great darkness. They thought it to be an eclipse, who did not know that this also was foretold concerning Christ. And some have denied it, not knowing the cause of such darkness. And yet you have that remarkable event recorded in your archives." Another writer, the martyr Lucian, spoke of the public archives which recorded these supernatural events as follows: "Look into your annals; there you will find that in the time of Pilate, when Christ suffered, the sun was obscured, and the light of the day was interrupted with darkness."

That is just one account. The "event" was even recorded in China.
The Jewish calender depends on the moon being nowhere near the sun when they celebrate Passover. The eclipse excuse isn't even close to a possibility.
And it didn't creep up on them either. WHAPPP! Darkness. And all those party goers stopped dead in their tracks. No one moved. It was so quiet that you could hear the blood dripping off of Christ and hitting the dirt. When the lights came back on, a Roman guard near the cross remarked, " We just crucified the Son of God."
No eclipse. Give me a better explanation........

Unless you were there you can't say there was not an eclipse. There were actually two different eclipses that would have been visible in Jerusalem around the time Jesus was crucified.

But I can say that there was no eclipse. I can use something as simple as the Jewish calender, a scroll in a Roman Library, historians, eyewitnesses. They ALL can't be individually wrong, and together they ALL support just what the Bible said happened.

I can acquaint myself with historical data:
(Samaritan, 1st century) -Julius Africanus,
"......an eclipse of the sun cannot occur at the same time there is a full moon. The moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun during full moon which would make a solar eclipse impossible at that time. This historical reference by the pagan historian Thallus confirmed the Gospel account regarding the miraculous darkness that covered the earth when Jesus was dying on the cross.
There are other ancient historical references to this supernatural darkness which occurred at the death of Christ. Modern astronomers confirm that Julius Africanus was right in his conclusion that a normal eclipse could not possibly occur at the time of a full moon, which occurred at the time of the Jewish Passover. The high priest carefully calculated the position of the full moon to the smallest degree because their whole Jewish liturgical calendar, especially Passover, depended on determining the precise lunar position. There are two important points here. First, the pagan Syrian historian Thallus, who was alive at the time of Jesus' death occurred has confirmed that darkness covered the earth at the very time recorded in the Gospels. Secondly, the fact that there was a full moon present makes it certain that this darkness was not an eclipse but that it was a supernatural event.".

Ya know, I never saw a dinosaur. I wasn't there, but........

Funny, the early church pointed to the historical fact that there was an eclipse during the reign of Tiberius, and that there were also earthquakes, and all of these were recorded by roman historians at the time, as evidence that the story in the Bible is true. Two thousand years later you want to decree that those people who were alive at the time are all wrong.

Go for it, just don't expect me, or anyone else with a brain, to back you up.

 

[hortysir]

Hello people!

In your opinion, what's the most odd or unbelievable (as in hard to believe) part of the gospels or Jesus's story in general?

I'm asking this because I wrote a secular humanistic version of Jesus's story (The Atheist New Testament), but I kind of wrote it from my perspective trying to answer the questions that I had about Christianity, and so I might lack something important.


Thanks for any feedback!


Thete,
Bachelor of Theology
Finland

That HE loves you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Except for the fact that the moon and sun were nowhere near each other.
Let's use history to prove that a supernatural darkness did indeed occur. I already gave you the religion as WHY it occurred.


Phlegon's sixteen volume Collection of Olympiads and Chronicles as follows:

All which things agree with what happened at the time of our Saviour's passion. And so writes Phlegon, and excellent compiler of the Olympiads in his thirteenth book, saying: ÔIn the fourth year of the two hundred and second olympiad there was a great and extraordinary eclipse of the sun, distinguished among all that had happened before. At the sixth hour the day was turned into dark night, so that the stars in the heavens were seen, and there was an earthquake in Bithynia which overthrew many houses in the city of Nice.' So writes the above named author.

Furthermore, Phlegon indicated that the darkness that covered the earth began at the sixth hour, which is equivalent to our noon hour, is precisely the same time period as recorded in the Gospels in Matthew 27:45. The Christian writer Tertullian indicated that this supernatural darkness was recorded in the Roman archives that could still be consulted. "At the same time at noonday there was a great darkness. They thought it to be an eclipse, who did not know that this also was foretold concerning Christ. And some have denied it, not knowing the cause of such darkness. And yet you have that remarkable event recorded in your archives." Another writer, the martyr Lucian, spoke of the public archives which recorded these supernatural events as follows: "Look into your annals; there you will find that in the time of Pilate, when Christ suffered, the sun was obscured, and the light of the day was interrupted with darkness."

That is just one account. The "event" was even recorded in China.
The Jewish calender depends on the moon being nowhere near the sun when they celebrate Passover. The eclipse excuse isn't even close to a possibility.
And it didn't creep up on them either. WHAPPP! Darkness. And all those party goers stopped dead in their tracks. No one moved. It was so quiet that you could hear the blood dripping off of Christ and hitting the dirt. When the lights came back on, a Roman guard near the cross remarked, " We just crucified the Son of God."
No eclipse. Give me a better explanation........

Unless you were there you can't say there was not an eclipse. There were actually two different eclipses that would have been visible in Jerusalem around the time Jesus was crucified.

TWO eclipses? Do they happen that close together?

Sometimes. There was an eclipse in 29 CE and another in 33 CE.

NASA - Solar Eclipses of History

 

[Caroljo]

Unless you were there you can't say there was not an eclipse. There were actually two different eclipses that would have been visible in Jerusalem around the time Jesus was crucified.

TWO eclipses? Do they happen that close together?

Sometimes. There was an eclipse in 29 CE and another in 33 CE.

NASA - Solar Eclipses of History

And how many eclipse's last 3 hours?? I believe God darkened the earth for this time, but not that it was an eclipse...just doesn't make sense to me.....

 

[mudwhistle]

Hello people!

In your opinion, what's the most odd or unbelievable (as in hard to believe) part of the gospels or Jesus's story in general?

I'm asking this because I wrote a secular humanistic version of Jesus's story (The Atheist New Testament), but I kind of wrote it from my perspective trying to answer the questions that I had about Christianity, and so I might lack something important.


Thanks for any feedback!


Thete,
Bachelor of Theology
Finland

You won't like my answer, but I will tell you anyway. It is the fact that people who think he is a myth feel a need to start discussions in an attempt to prove they are smarter than I am. I think Thor is a myth, yet I have never once felt a need to start a thread to prove it.

Jesus didn't promise the end of all wicked people till after the second coming.

Sorry if that ruins your clever little cartoon for you.

 

[konradv]

The Gospel of Peter also tells the name of one of the guards who were guarding the tomb, Petronius.

Many scholars believe that the whole story about guards at the tomb was a counter-argument to the suspicions that Jesus' body had been stolen by the disciples.

The temple priests tried to bribe the Roman Guard< composed of between 4 and 16 men, to say they fell asleep and the disciples stole the body. The Romans refused because that statement would also have been their confession to the punishment by death rule of no sleeping on the job. Then there were the Temple guards that formed a semi circle around the stone.
Answer me this:
If everyone fell asleep, how did they know WHO the thieves were?

Test:
From 9am till noon, There was a sort of party going on beneath the cross, ridiculing, jeering, taunting Jesus to hop down etc. In an instant from noon to 3pm, it went dark.
That part was between God, and Jesus. That is when Jesus became you. And me. And was judged, found guilty, and received the death sentence, for all the stupid shit I have done, and will do.
Question:
Did it really go dark that afternoon?

And was the temple curtain ripped from top to bottom,symbolizing that there was no longer a need for a priest to be between you and God? That the kingdom was indeed at hand?

If it became dark, there was a solar eclipse. There is nothing fantastic going on here, no magic. But it makes for a grand story, and one that would surely be passed down at least orally because of its entertainment value. This is common in all of the Bible. Good stories. Which helps for ideas to be carried on, over time.

There were two eclipses in the proper time period. One was during the right part of the year, but totality was over the Indian Ocean and Palestine didn't even get a partial. The other was in November, wrong time of the year, and didn't go total over Jerusalem.

NASA - Solar Eclipses of History

 

[Ernie S.]

I don't mean to be belligerent. Sorry if you think I am. It's just that if I see a question I can answer, or an odd assumption I can refute, I just get to the point.
But I am welcome to your beliefs as well, because you posted them in a pubic forum. So I am curious as to why you believe what you do, because, you said good behavior can get you into Heaven, "probably". Why take the risk? Because I believe the content of the Bible, I can't be belligerent enough in warning you, that if you believe in Heaven then you must believe in He that created Heaven. And He said without a shadow of a doubt, the exact opposite of what you believe. I don't want you to go to Hell thinking you got gypped, cause all in all you were a pretty good guy, when what you really need to hear is what Jesus said. "No one goes to the Father except through me". Your works have nothing to do with it. Jesus has everything to do with it. Salvation is a gift. Where your soul is at stake, I have to be belligerent. It's that important.

You see, I believe that what Jesus meant was to behave as he would as close as possible. Lord knows I fallen short, but for the last 20 years or so, I've been a pretty decent guy.
I know plenty of "born again" bastards who claim they were "saved". but are filling their bodies with drugs and booze to excess, cheating on their wives and cheating in business. By your definition, they're going to heaven and I'm not? Bullshit!
You can comfort yourself with your evangelical "born again" crap. I don't much care. You don't decide who qualifies for heaven. There is only one final judge.

 

[AmericanFirst]

I don't mean to be belligerent. Sorry if you think I am. It's just that if I see a question I can answer, or an odd assumption I can refute, I just get to the point.
But I am welcome to your beliefs as well, because you posted them in a pubic forum. So I am curious as to why you believe what you do, because, you said good behavior can get you into Heaven, "probably". Why take the risk? Because I believe the content of the Bible, I can't be belligerent enough in warning you, that if you believe in Heaven then you must believe in He that created Heaven. And He said without a shadow of a doubt, the exact opposite of what you believe. I don't want you to go to Hell thinking you got gypped, cause all in all you were a pretty good guy, when what you really need to hear is what Jesus said. "No one goes to the Father except through me". Your works have nothing to do with it. Jesus has everything to do with it. Salvation is a gift. Where your soul is at stake, I have to be belligerent. It's that important.

You see, I believe that what Jesus meant was to behave as he would as close as possible. Lord knows I fallen short, but for the last 20 years or so, I've been a pretty decent guy.
I know plenty of "born again" bastards who claim they were "saved". but are filling their bodies with drugs and booze to excess, cheating on their wives and cheating in business. By your definition, they're going to heaven and I'm not? Bullshit!
You can comfort yourself with your evangelical "born again" crap. I don't much care. You don't decide who qualifies for heaven. There is only one final judge.

You are right, there is only one judge, and he said in John 14:6, Jesus answered, "I am the truth, the life and the way, no man shall see the Father but through me." Being saved by Jesus blood through faith is the only way to heaven, the Bible says that. If a so called Christian is still committing those sins you stated you would have to question wether they are sincere or not.

 

[AmericanFirst]

I do not believe in the miracles that were attributed to him. I think those were made up later on, to convince others of his authenticity, since the Jews always needed some "sign".

I feel that jesus was real, and he and the buddha were of the same essence. Any difference is a cultural difference, including interpretation.

You would be wrong, buddha was just a man, his bones are still here on earth.

 

[Dragon]

I do not believe in the miracles that were attributed to him. I think those were made up later on, to convince others of his authenticity, since the Jews always needed some "sign".

I feel that jesus was real, and he and the buddha were of the same essence. Any difference is a cultural difference, including interpretation.

You would be wrong, buddha was just a man, his bones are still here on earth.

And you think you know what "just a man" means, do you?

 

[amrchaos]

In your opinion, what's the most odd or unbelievable (as in hard to believe) part of the gospels or Jesus's story in general?

I'm asking this because I wrote a secular humanistic version of Jesus's story (The Atheist New Testament), but I kind of wrote it from my perspective trying to answer the questions that I had about Christianity, and so I might lack something important.

Thete,
Bachelor of Theology
Finland

So you have B.A. in Theology?

But you're are an Atheist.

Makes sense to me..............................Not!!

Atheists take courses on Theology.

I am pretty sure there are Atheists that have enough knowledge to teach the Qu'ran or be an Imam for an Islamic community. To me, a degree in theology is not much different than a degree in Literature--except you can preach, teach or expound on the religion with a bit of credance in the field.

 

[HUGGY]

IYO, what's the most unbelievable thing about Jesus?


Hard to pick just one. Let's start with the immaculet conception son of a god thingy.

Dying for MY?? sins?? No...the dumb ass died cuz he pissed some people off. Funny how that works.

Thirdly... Coming back from the dead? Christians think people are REALLY stupid ...nuff said.