IYO, what's the most unbelievable thing about Jesus?

[The Irish Ram]

I do not think that Jesus is a myth. But I do believe that power hungry people seeking meaning to their lives made their friend some things that he wasn't.

Personally I'm a fan of Jesus, not the basic Catholic/Protestant Jesus but a man who understood that many transgressions are consequences and not expressions of a person's evil nature.

He understood that a prostitute does what she has to do to survive. Oh, and I love his anti-rich-people campaign. And I believe in the sanctity of marriage just like he did.

For me, probably the hardest thing to believe in the "Christian Jesus" is his universality (I believe that he was more concerned with Israel). Also, I do not believe that Saul of Tarsos had Jesus appear to him.

I have to question your research.
His friends gave up seeking meaning to their lives and their lives ended prematurely, because of their belief in their friend. Power wasn't even a consideration.

He instructed the prostitute to sin no more. He may have understood it but he didn't condone it.
He was not anti-rich. Many of God's people were very wealthy, some of the richest in the world. Jesus was anti-loving money more than loving the father that provided the wealth in the first place.
Remember the rich man that Jesus told to sell everything and follow Him? And the rich man couldn't bring himself to give up his riches, so he turned and walked away? It wasn't the wealth that was the issue, it was the rich man's love of his wealth that caused him to lose his opportunity.
It wasn't that there were money changers in the temple that pissed off Jesus, it was the money exchangers cheating the public that pissed Jesus off.

And the hardest thing for you to understand is the easiest thing to explain. Jesus was NOT universal. Jesus was a rabbi. He was here on earth for the benefit of the Jewish people, because of a covenant between God and Abraham. He came as a sacrifice to cleanse the Jews. He was sacrificed on they Jewish day of sacrifice. He's Jewish! By the grace of God, we (the universe) were grafted in to the Jewish line, and bestowed with the same gift of salvation.

When doing your research, did you find any historical evidence of Christ returning from the grave and remaining on earth for 40 days? Any historical evidence outside the realm of religion?

 

[konradv]

The God part. Trinity seems pagan to me. Message

 

[The Irish Ram]

Forgot the one about Saul:
Saul's eyes looked just fine until that encounter. Paul later thanks people for overlooking his eye deformity. Aparently he carried the scars of that meeting for the rest of his life.

 

[The Irish Ram]

That Jesus is even considered a PROPHET of god despite lacking divine protection that god has given to all of the previous prophets.

To me, that was the first red flag about Jesus.

I guess that means you do not think Isaiah or Jeremiah were prophets either.

God had people that were prophets for a particular time and reason.
Jesus, while being prophetic, was a propitiation for our sin. Two different jobs, requiring 2 different actions.

 

[Caroljo]

For me, the least believable thing about Jesus as presented in Christian doctrine is his special divinity. Of course he was God (we all are), but in claiming a specially divine status for hm, Christians implicitly deny the divinity of each of us, and that's wrong. It also conflicts a number of things that Jesus himself said as reported in the Gospels.

There are a number of his alleged miracles, plus the virgin birth and the resurrection, that are runners-up, but that's the big unbelievable for me.

Jesus is the Divine Son of God. It is a lie given by satan saying we are all god. Anyone repeating that is a liar and a false prophet. The truth period is the Bible and Jesus. And no, I do not need to know any other truths, no other way to Heaven but through Jesus, period.

And right on cue: "This is true because I say it's true. I don't need any evidence to support it and I don't have any. If you disagree with me then you are an agent of Satan. Ignorance makes me better than you."

So predictable.

That's called FAITH. You have to experience it...and i doubt you ever will.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Jesus is the Divine Son of God. It is a lie given by satan saying we are all god. Anyone repeating that is a liar and a false prophet. The truth period is the Bible and Jesus. And no, I do not need to know any other truths, no other way to Heaven but through Jesus, period.

And right on cue: "This is true because I say it's true. I don't need any evidence to support it and I don't have any. If you disagree with me then you are an agent of Satan. Ignorance makes me better than you."

So predictable.

That's called FAITH. You have to experience it...and i doubt you ever will.

Right, to know the truth of Jesus you have to have Faith in him. Some are just too blinded by satan to see that.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Konrad, think of the trinity like this. I am a mother, a daughter, and a wife. I work differently in each role, according what is expected of me.
God is a father who treats us accordingly and corrects us.
God is a son, whose role is to give mankind a path to rightousness, and an example as to the way we should live our lives.
God is a powerplant that creates.
3 different roles, same entity.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Were they killed before accomplishing their mission to god?

The best example of a prophet of God that lost divine protection is Samson, and he lost it due to his constant disobediance to GOD. But yet he was able to accomplish most of his goals by submitting himself to God at the very last moments of his life.

In this case, it is well described how Samson lost his divine intervention, and how he gain some of the holy powers by resubmission.

This also brings up another point, why is it that Jesus must die, resurrect and then leave before accomplishing his goal of becoming King of Israel and leading his nation to eternal peace? Normally, the prophet(Samsam is the example here) must do something to lose grace with God and the acts of other men are immaterial to god's design. Why is it that some acts of man are able to deter Christ--unless Christ did something that was not mentioned in the NT.

Was Jesus killed before he accomplished his mission? I seem to remember him walking through a crowd of people who wanted to kill him and not getting hurt.

Jesus was falsely accused by the Pharisees, insulted and beaten by the Romans, hung on the Crucifix where he died. Then the only claims to his resurrection was by his followers, yet they with the fact that he does not appear to others is due to being carted off to heaven before actually starting the work he was sent here to do.

And you do not find that strange?

Christ's mission WAS to hang on that cross. To be a sacrifice. We are the ones that SHOULD be "hung". Instead, Christ paid for our sins so we don't have to. He did it out of love, and agreed to do it before Adam even made his appearance. That is the gift Jesus gave us.
Not only are there claims to Jesus being right back here on earth, for over a month and being seen by hundreds, but antiquity writings are plentiful concerning just WHAT was seen.

When Christ was being crucified, the stones of the graves of those who were in Abraham's bosom were moved. Abraham, David, and all of the believer's in the God of Abraham could not return to earth because they held not the keys to death. They were confined to a Paradise that was viewable from hades. Jesus went to them after he died and brought them BACK with him for 40 days, before they ALL left earth together. They were the first fruits Jesus offered to his father, according to Jewish tradition.

Some, that were recently deceased, went home to see their families. According to historical writings about 10,000 to 20,000 returned with Jesus. Eye witness accounts can be found in the Nicene Library. Two accounts that I love are from priests of the temple on their way back to the temple when they encountered the whole group descending from a mountain. They recognized 2 priests, that had died recently. When they reached the temple, and recounted what they had just witnessed, and the ones that dreaded His return the most, the temple priests, sent for the 2 dead/now alive priests, who had gone to their homes. Both men were taken to the temple and interrogated separately, and both said the same thing. Jesus opened the gate and defeated death. The accounts of seeing Christ are lengthy and precise. Names, dates and all. And some from the very people that never wanted to see the man they thought they had defeated 3 days earlier, again.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Were they killed before accomplishing their mission to god?

The best example of a prophet of God that lost divine protection is Samson, and he lost it due to his constant disobediance to GOD. But yet he was able to accomplish most of his goals by submitting himself to God at the very last moments of his life.

In this case, it is well described how Samson lost his divine intervention, and how he gain some of the holy powers by resubmission.

This also brings up another point, why is it that Jesus must die, resurrect and then leave before accomplishing his goal of becoming King of Israel and leading his nation to eternal peace? Normally, the prophet(Samsam is the example here) must do something to lose grace with God and the acts of other men are immaterial to god's design. Why is it that some acts of man are able to deter Christ--unless Christ did something that was not mentioned in the NT.

Was Jesus killed before he accomplished his mission? I seem to remeber him walking through a crowd of people who wanted to kill him and not getting hurt.

Jesus was falsely accused by the Pharissees, insulted and beaten by the Romans, hung on the Crucifix where he died. Then the only claims to his resurrection was by his followers, yet they with the fact that he does not appear to others is due to being carted off to heaven before actually starting the work he was sent here to do.

And you do not find that strange?

Strange how none of what you pointed out actually addresses my question, why is that?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Samson was a hell raising, drinking, womanizing brute of a man. His own actions caused him to suffer much. He was blinded and forced to "grind". < have sex with females wanting to produce physically large children/warriors. He is also a proud member of God's Hall of Faith. He committed suicide and murder at the same time, but his faith garnered favor from His father. And his repentance garnered eternal life.

 

[The Irish Ram]

chaos, Christ didn't die before he fulfilled his mission. His death WAS the mission. The Jews were taught to sacrifice in order to temporarily cover their sins so the could interact with God, until the blood of Christ, that removes the sin completely was available. The interim from Christ's death, and the day he takes his place as King is a gift to the Gentiles. He gave us 2000 years to come to him. Our time is up. Christ's hand is on the door, waiting for his father to give him the sign to return, not as Jesus the sacrifice, but Jesus the warrior, to claim his rightful place as King of the Jews and the rest of us.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Hello people!

In your opinion, what's the most odd or unbelievable (as in hard to believe) part of the gospels or Jesus's story in general?

I'm asking this because I wrote a secular humanistic version of Jesus's story (The Atheist New Testament), but I kind of wrote it from my perspective trying to answer the questions that I had about Christianity, and so I might lack something important.


Thanks for any feedback!


Thete,
Bachelor of Theology
Finland

You won't like my answer, but I will tell you anyway. It is the fact that people who think he is a myth feel a need to start discussions in an attempt to prove they are smarter than I am. I think Thor is a myth, yet I have never once felt a need to start a thread to prove it.

Awesome post.

 

[Youwerecreated]

That Jesus is even considered a PROPHET of god despite lacking divine protection that god has given to all of the previous prophets.

To me, that was the first red flag about Jesus.

Can you show where God gave divine protection to all prophets ? Fact Jeremiah condemned Israel for killing prophets of God they also were the ones in charge of putting Jesus to death,but only the religious leaders not the common Jews.

 

[Avatar4321]

Hello people!

In your opinion, what's the most odd or unbelievable (as in hard to believe) part of the gospels or Jesus's story in general?

I'm asking this because I wrote a secular humanistic version of Jesus's story (The Atheist New Testament), but I kind of wrote it from my perspective trying to answer the questions that I had about Christianity, and so I might lack something important.


Thanks for any feedback!


Thete,
Bachelor of Theology
Finland

In other words, you don't really care what anyone says, you're just trying to sell your book.

 

[Avatar4321]

chaos, Christ didn't die before he fulfilled his mission. His death WAS the mission. The Jews were taught to sacrifice in order to temporarily cover their sins so the could interact with God, until the blood of Christ, that removes the sin completely was available. The interim from Christ's death, and the day he takes his place as King is a gift to the Gentiles. He gave us 2000 years to come to him. Our time is up. Christ's hand is on the door, waiting for his father to give him the sign to return, not as Jesus the sacrifice, but Jesus the warrior, to claim his rightful place as King of the Jews and the rest of us.

I have to disagree one part. His death wasn't the mission, His resurrection was. He just had to go through the death part to get there.

 

[Youwerecreated]

chaos, Christ didn't die before he fulfilled his mission. His death WAS the mission. The Jews were taught to sacrifice in order to temporarily cover their sins so the could interact with God, until the blood of Christ, that removes the sin completely was available. The interim from Christ's death, and the day he takes his place as King is a gift to the Gentiles. He gave us 2000 years to come to him. Our time is up. Christ's hand is on the door, waiting for his father to give him the sign to return, not as Jesus the sacrifice, but Jesus the warrior, to claim his rightful place as King of the Jews and the rest of us.

I have to disagree one part. His death wasn't the mission, His resurrection was. He just had to go through the death part to get there.

How can that be since his death was atonement for all ?

If he didn't get resurrected that means he failed the test.

 

[AmericanFirst]

chaos, Christ didn't die before he fulfilled his mission. His death WAS the mission. The Jews were taught to sacrifice in order to temporarily cover their sins so the could interact with God, until the blood of Christ, that removes the sin completely was available. The interim from Christ's death, and the day he takes his place as King is a gift to the Gentiles. He gave us 2000 years to come to him. Our time is up. Christ's hand is on the door, waiting for his father to give him the sign to return, not as Jesus the sacrifice, but Jesus the warrior, to claim his rightful place as King of the Jews and the rest of us.

I have to disagree one part. His death wasn't the mission, His resurrection was. He just had to go through the death part to get there.

How can that be since his death was atonement for all ?

If he did get resurrected that means he failed the test.

A true Christian doesn't dispute that Jesus is resurrected. His death and resurrection is the plan of redemption.

 

[Sunni Man]

In your opinion, what's the most odd or unbelievable (as in hard to believe) part of the gospels or Jesus's story in general?

I'm asking this because I wrote a secular humanistic version of Jesus's story (The Atheist New Testament), but I kind of wrote it from my perspective trying to answer the questions that I had about Christianity, and so I might lack something important.

Thete,
Bachelor of Theology
Finland

So you have B.A. in Theology?

But you're are an Atheist.

Makes sense to me..............................Not!!

 

[konradv]

Konrad, think of the trinity like this. I am a mother, a daughter, and a wife. I work differently in each role, according what is expected of me.
God is a father who treats us accordingly and corrects us.
God is a son, whose role is to give mankind a path to rightousness, and an example as to the way we should live our lives.
God is a powerplant that creates.
3 different roles, same entity.

A more pagan concept than co-opting Saturnalia or Spring festivals to create Xmas and Easter, but it never gets mentioned. It reminded me of the story told of how St. Patrick explained the Trinity to the Irish with the shamrock, i.e. one plant, three leaves. It would seem they'd hardly have to have that explained, as their gods often had three faces, e.g. Maiden, Mother and Crone for the goddess we know as Mother Nature.

Your explanation doesn't make it an easier to accept, as a Christian, since it echoes the pagan gods.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I have to disagree one part. His death wasn't the mission, His resurrection was. He just had to go through the death part to get there.

How can that be since his death was atonement for all ?

If he did get resurrected that means he failed the test.

A true Christian doesn't dispute that Jesus is resurrected. His death and resurrection is the plan of redemption.

Agreed. Sorry for the typo.