It’s Time to Unplug the Hype Over Electric Vehicles

[skookerasbil]

Hydrogen is a nonstarter. Batteries will soon exceed 400 wth per kilo, and the capacitors may become useful in time. At present we don't have fusion reactors, nor thorium reactors, no fuel cells that will last as long as existing batteries, nor deliver the power as quickly. So the present batteries are doing a great job, and will be doing even better in the near future.

Lol....you were saying the exact same thing 8 years ago.

 

[Old Rocks]

Lol....you were saying the exact same thing 8 years ago.

And that is exactly what has happened. The present batteries have extended the range over those of 8 years ago. And they now make the Tesla S Plaid the fastest production car in the world. Even the small Tesla's are beating the socks off of so called ICE performance cars.

 

[Old Rocks]

Thankfully, wokeism is dying on the vine as we speak. Americans are sick of this shit....

November is going to be a raucus party....but not for the DUMS.

Wasn't that what you said about 3Nov20? And how did your treasonous old pig do. Lost by 7 million votes, then committed multiple felonies trying to steal the election, and spearheaded an insurrection. But that has nothing to do with electric cars, and the fat pig probably doesn't know how to drive in any case.

 

[Wyatt earp]

And that is exactly what has happened. The present batteries have extended the range over those of 8 years ago. And they now make the Tesla S Plaid the fastest production car in the world. Even the small Tesla's are beating the socks off of so called ICE performance cars.

Oh lookie more favoritism to electric vehicles now in Europe Electric are aloud to be two tons overweight and in America almost one ton over the legal limit.

In the E.U., electric semi trucks are allowed to be 2 tons (~4,400 pounds) heavier than diesel equivalents, and in the U.S. the allowance is 0.9 tons (2,000 pounds). When fully loaded, the Tesla Semi should be able to achieve over 500 miles of range, achieved through aerodynamics and highly efficient motors.Aug 13, 2021

Electrek - EV and Tesla News, Green Energy, Ebikes, and more › 2021/08/13 › te...

Tesla says Tesla Semi electric truck's weight is on point, and that's crucial ...
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[Captain Caveman]

Gee…..maybe with YOUR usage you need 2 or 3

Most will get by perfectly fine with just one

It's not my usage, but it's someone where 3 vehicles will likely need charged at the same time. Some families I know, the household has 4+ cars.

These people would ideally need SuperCapacitor technology when it progresses to make the Lithium Ion battery redundant.

Do you think most houses just have one car?

 

[toobfreak]

Hydrogen is a nonstarter.

Free power from hydrogen where water is the only "pollutant" is a non-starter?" Now I'm sure you are just some ignorant jackass shill working for the battery or EV car industry.

Batteries will soon exceed 400 wth per kilo, and the capacitors may become useful in time.

Unlike fuel cells, batteries come with no innate energy of their own but must be charged from somewhere else. Batteries don't PRODUCE anything.

At present we don't have fusion reactors, nor thorium reactors, no fuel cells that will last as long as existing batteries,

Sure, but the battery is HALF THE FUCKING CAR, and like you always say, fuel cells just need more time and development to bring down their cost! And unlike batteries, fuel cells can be changed on the fly--- they don't NEED to last as long as they are PRODUCING the power not merely trying to STORE it.

nor deliver the power as quickly.

No one needs to go 0-60 in 3 seconds. Save it for the race cars.

So the present batteries are doing a great job, and will be doing even better in the near future.

As will fuel cells. And they won't need an impossibly expensive investment in totally rebuilding our electric grid.

 

[toobfreak]

LOL Odd that you leave out the little fact that you are able to use maybe 20% of the energy in that gasoline because of the inefficiency of the Carnot cycle, while the EV's are over 75% efficient.

Never mind that gasoline provides the densest, cheapest energy source by far. EV cars are simply far more costly to buy, own, operate and maintain than gas, and that will never change. The ONLY argument for an electric car other than as just a fun plaything for the affluent is to "save the planet" cutting carbon emissions in a futile attempt to stop something that can't be stopped anyway.

Once everyone is FORCED into using electricity, not only will electricity costs and regulations soar, but availability will decline, then everyone will be told that it wasn't enough anyway, that it didn't work, and that the planet is still warming up.

Welcome to the Left's vision of Environmental Tyranny.

 

[rightwinger]

As will fuel cells. And they won't need an impossibly expensive investment in totally rebuilding our electric grid.

When fuel cells evolve, we can start producing cars

Until that time, batteries will do nicely

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Free power from hydrogen where water is the only "pollutant" is a non-starter?" Now I'm sure you are just some ignorant jackass shill working for the battery or EV car industry.

Do you understand that hydrogen is not a source of energy?

Petroleum contains huge amounts of energy, captured and stored by once-living organisms a long time ago. After all the expense and energy expended to obtain it and refine it, we're left with products that contain much more energy than what it took to do so. That is what makes fossil fuels so valuable.

To produce free hydrogen, we have to put more energy into doing so than we can ever get back out of it.

Pretty much the same as what you said about batteries…

Unlike fuel cells, batteries come with no innate energy of their own but must be charged from somewhere else. Batteries don't PRODUCE anything.

To produce hydrogen for fuel, whether for fuel cells or for more conventional burning in an internal combustion engine, you have to get the energy from somewhere else.

And no, hydrogen is not as “clean” a fuel as most people ignorantly believe it to be.

One of the major pollutants from an internal combustion engine is nitrogen oxide (NOX).

You know where the nitrogen comes from to create it? Not from the fuel. From the air which the engine breathes, which is about 78% nitrogen. Burn anything under enough heat and pressure, using air as the oxidizer, and you get NOX as one of the by-products.

There are plenty of other problems with hydrogen as a fuel, as well.

 

[toobfreak]

Talking about charging an electric car in just a few minutes is comparable to talking about driving one at a thousand miles per hour. Just not technically feasible, and not ever likely to be technically feasible, and even if it was, it would be seriously unsafe.

And who would want it to be, Bob? I can trickle charge a battery overnight with a 1 amp current on a skinny wire. Trying to charge batteries in minutes presents enormous problems:

1. Specialized battery technology at far higher cost.
2. Massive bulky, hugely expensive supply cables not only to the car, but through the house.
3. A whole new power infrastructure from the power plants to the substations to the neighborhoods capable of meeting those enormous current demands. We can't even replace the power step-down transformers we currently have!
4. Batteries and such capable of taking a huge dump of power over a short time make perfect time bombs just waiting to go off under your feet.
5. Huge demands for power will simply drive up the cost of electricity for everyone as well as massive shortages.

 

[toobfreak]

And how did your treasonous old pig do. Lost by 7 million votes, then committed multiple felonies trying to steal the election

Where are these felonies? They have been coming since 2017, still not delivered as promised. ITMT, all it got us is a far more treasonous pig.

and spearheaded an insurrection.

With no insurrectionists.

But that has nothing to do with electric cars, and the fat pig probably doesn't know how to drive in any case.

No, you never do. Just all talk. BTW, when is the last time you saw Joe drive a car, idiot?

 

[toobfreak]

Do you understand that hydrogen is not a source of energy?

Tell it to the survivors of the Hindenburg Disaster or the Sun. The Sun RUNS on hydrogen! All solar power and solar energy collected here on Earth comes from hydrogen.

Petroleum contains huge amounts of energy, captured and stored by once-living organisms a long time ago. After all the expense and energy expended to obtain it and refine it, we're left with products that contain much more energy than what it took to do so. That is what makes fossil fuels so valuable.

Yep.

To produce free hydrogen, we have to put more energy into doing so than we can ever get back out of it. Pretty much the same as what you said about batteries…

For now, that is true. I'm counting on Old Rocks to get busy and solve that problem!

There are plenty of other problems with hydrogen as a fuel, as well.

All true and well known. Still, no less a reason to keep pursuing it than we have pursued batteries and such. All we are really admitting here is that we are exploring practical EV battery cars because the TECHNOLOGY is just within reach, not because it presents a practical, viable, long term solution! Just as we shouldn't discount the potential of hydrogen fuel cells just because the technology is NOT yet within viable grasp.

ITMT, plenty of cheap gas at the pumps.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

EV cars are simply far more costly to buy, own, operate and maintain than gas, and that will never change.

The battery is the weakness of electric cars. That's what makes them expensive to build,. and expensive to maintain.

Aside from the battery, there is no good reason why electric cars should be as expensive, difficult or expensive to maintain, or unreliable as ICE-based cars.

How many moving parts does a typical internal-combustion engine have? A typical electric motor has one moving part. And because it is electrically reversible, and has a much wider power band, it does not need nearly as complex a drive train between it and the wheels.

An electric car ought to cost less to manufacture, cost less to maintain, be more reliable, and last much longer, than an ICE-based car.

But the battery ruins everything, along with the logistics of getting enough electrical power in one place to charge it at am acceptable rate.

I have no confidence that at my age, I will live to see it, but if we ever overcome the cost and limitations of battery technology, and the rate of charging, then I expect that the internal-combustion engine will very rapidly become obsolete.

 

[rightwinger]

The battery is the weakness of electric cars. That's what makes them expensive to build,. and expensive to maintain.

Aside from the battery, there is no good reason why electric cars should be as expensive, difficult or expensive to maintain, or unreliable as ICE-based cars.

How many moving parts does a typical internal-combustion engine have? A typical electric motor has one moving part. And because it is electrically reversible, and has a much wider power band, it does not need nearly as complex a drive train between it and the wheels.

An electric car ought to cost less to manufacture, cost less to maintain, be more reliable, and last much longer, than an ICE-based car.

But the battery ruins everything, along with the logistics of getting enough electrical power in one place to charge it at am acceptable rate.

I have no confidence that at my age, I will live to see it, but if we ever overcome the cost and limitations of battery technology, and the rate of charging, then I expect that the internal-combustion engine will very rapidly become obsolete.

Batteries are the biggest expense in an EV
They cost $6-10K to replace

But an electric motor costs little compared to an ICE and can be replaced for less than $1,000 compared to $4-6K for an ICE
You also don’t have to worry about an exhaust system, emissions system, Cooling system, belts, hoses, Fuel injection, spark plugs

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Do you understand that hydrogen is not a source of energy?

Tell it to the survivors of the Hindenburg Disaster or the Sun. The Sun RUNS on hydrogen! All solar power and solar energy collected here on Earth comes from hydrogen.

That, of course, involves a completely different process. If we can ever tame that process and harness it as an energy source, then it will change everything. We've been just barely on the verge of taming it since before I was born, and that's probably where we will be long after I have shuffled off this mortal coil.

So far, the only way that we've been able to get more out of this process than what we have to put into it to make it happen ends up looking something like this:

Not exactly practical to carry around to power a vehicle.

 

[toobfreak]

The battery is the weakness of electric cars. That's what makes them expensive to build,. and expensive to maintain.

Right on.

Aside from the battery, there is no good reason why electric cars should be as expensive, difficult or expensive to maintain, or unreliable as ICE-based cars.

Without the battery, EVs are cheap and simple.

How many moving parts does a typical internal-combustion engine have? A typical electric motor has one moving part. And because it is electrically reversible, and has a much wider power band, it does not need nearly as complex a drive train between it and the wheels.

Yes, pure engineering beauty and simplicity if not for those nasty batteries.

An electric car ought to cost less to manufacture, cost less to maintain, be more reliable, and last much longer, than an ICE-based car.

MUCH so. An ICE engine is a cacophony of kludges, fixes, and subsystems to FORCE it into smooth, efficient operation.

But the battery ruins everything, along with the logistics of getting enough electrical power in one place to charge it at am acceptable rate.

Wouldn't a better solution be to just bring the power to the car like a streetcar or a subway? That is actually a century-old technology which not only is reachable, but eliminates all need for big batteries and charging. An EV car might then only need a small battery like now just to power it short distances into the garage or parking area and so forth.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

I've watched this guy for some years, he is pretty damned knowledgeable and honest.



There are many questions he doesn't answer, but all in all, he's answered a lot of questions I had on EV's.

Notice he states a few times, that these vehicles can last without major issues IF they are driven within their specs. But really, WHO drives a vehicle within it's specs?

Also notice he mentions EV's also can develop problems with environmental driving. Meaning these vehicles can develop problems from heat, cold, dirt, rain, etc....

He claims they are cheaper in the long run on maintenance, but not if you factor in NOT driving these vehicles within their specs and literally babying them constantly. And this, in itself, really DOES make these vehicles are extremely "high maintenance".

Who has the time to baby and pamper a vehicle?

 

[progressive hunter]

I've watched this guy for some years, he is pretty damned knowledgeable and honest.



There are many questions he doesn't answer, but all in all, he's answered a lot of questions I had on EV's.

Notice he states a few times, that these vehicles can last without major issues IF they are driven within their specs. But really, WHO drives a vehicle within it's specs?

Also notice he mentions EV's also can develop problems with environmental driving. Meaning these vehicles can develop problems from heat, cold, dirt, rain, etc....

He claims they are cheaper in the long run on maintenance, but not if you factor in NOT driving these vehicles within their specs and literally babying them constantly. And this, in itself, really DOES make these vehicles are extremely "high maintenance".

Who has the time to baby and pamper a vehicle?

as lazerus long said,,

"listen to an expert on why it cant be done then do it"

this guy just explained the problems so now all you have to do is avoid them,,
EV's might not be for everybody but they are still a viable alternative for many,,

 

[Woodznutz]

EV users should be taxed like the rest of us. They cause wear and tear on the roads, but they don't pay gas taxes.

That is a great point. Some sort of road use tax will likely appear but only after EV's have succeeded in taking a larger share of the vehicle market.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

That is a great point. Some sort of road use tax will likely appear but only after EV's have succeeded in taking a larger share of the vehicle market.

Yes, the man in the video I posted said EV's are much heavier than gas vehicles because of the weight of the batteries. This means heavier force on roads, which means quicker wear and tear.