It isn't your grandfather's LEFT anymore

[Moonglow]

Are you really so dense that you think that's what this thread is about? Or are you just pretending in an effort to derail it?

Foxfyre said:
Until recently when the left is all about total control, defeating/silencing/destroying any who oppose them, etc., the left has had good intentions I think.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Please address what points I listed that incorrectly describe the modern American left.

I just did.

"The left" was both anti-war and pro-war.

A Look Back at How Fear and False Beliefs Bolstered U.S. Public Support for War in Iraq

Twenty years ago this month, the U.S. launched a major invasion of Iraq. President George W. Bush and his administration at first drew broad public support for the use of military force. Yet the campaign soon left Americans deeply divided, and by 2019, 62% said the Iraq War was not worth fighting.

www.pewresearch.org

Dem, lean Dem, 57% and 53%, a MAJORITY said that Saddam had helped 9/11.

A month before it happened, 52% of Dem/Lean Dems favored military action against Saddam. They didn't oppose it as a majority until the impact of the war was known, ie, the US wasn't in for the quick kill and quick pull out.

You're suggesting that democrats aren't "pro-women" any more. Bullshit. You have nothing to prove this, and you never will. HOWEVER I'm sure there are Democrats who aren't "pro-women".

Abortion support by party and level of legalization U.S. 2023 | Statista

It is perhaps no surprise that adults in the United States who identify as Democrats are far more likely to favor the legalization of abortion, with 60 percent of Democrats surveyed in 2023 supporting the legalization of abortion under any circumstance.

www.statista.com

If we said abortion was pro-women and anti-abortion anti-women (it's not, but I doubt there are statistics out there that ask "do you like women?") then:

Abortion support by party and level of legalization U.S. 2023 | Statista

It is perhaps no surprise that adults in the United States who identify as Democrats are far more likely to favor the legalization of abortion, with 60 percent of Democrats surveyed in 2023 supporting the legalization of abortion under any circumstance.

www.statista.com

60% of Dems support abortions, 22% want abortion to be illegal or mostly illegal.

ie, "the left" doesn't think one way or another, because IT'S TOO BIG to think in one way.

 

[ElmerMudd]

You spew party man blabbering points, including the aforementioned lies of omission, like an NPC.

Yout are a hater and nobody likes you.

You are wrong, AGAIN! My family loves me. My friends love. To know me is to love me.

 

[ElmerMudd]

PLEASE TELL ME WHERE IT IS DISHONEST!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rebut anything I said with facts.

I am waiting for facts that prove my claims wrong.
if you cannot provide facts , admit it.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

I think historically, the left hasn't been all bad.

The radicals opposing the Tsars in Russia meant well--they believed they were fighting for the common man, the oppressed, the poor, those who simply wanted freedom and a piece of the pie. But the revolution created new leaders who quickly became obsessed with their new power and did what they needed to do to increase it until they had created totalitarianism more vicious, hateful, and powerful than anything the Tzars ever imposed on the people.

In fact in almost every case in which leftism has overthrown the traditional ruling classes, a much worse totalitarianism has replaced those ruling classes. We have seen it in Russia, China, North Korea, North Vietnam etc. The Marxist ideal seems so pure, so noble, so righteous. But every time it has been tried, some of the world's most powerful, vicious, oppressive governments have been created. And those in power were not about to relinquish their acquired power to the lowly people as Marx and Engles envisioned.

And our leftist friends or those who don't bother to take all this seriously should take heed of that history. Could it happen in the USA? It absolutely could. In fact I believe it will if there are not enough Patriots left standing to defend our flag, Constitution, and the Republic they represent.

I truly believe the left are all talk. Sure they were better than today, perhaps. The Democrats are cracked.

 

[Foxfyre]

I truly believe the left are all talk. Sure they were better than today, perhaps. The Democrats are cracked.

Vandalizing, stealing, burning, breaking/entering, assaulting, terrorizing, murdering during most of the summer of 2020 is not 'all talk.' Funding corrupt D.A.s, threatening/intimidating judges, even Supreme Court justices is not 'all talk.' Grooming children via public school curriculum, entertainment, recreation, propaganda, marketing techniques is not 'all talk.' Perpetuating and stirring up racism again via school curriculum, marketing, law suits, media/advertising, suspensions and firings is not 'all talk.' Silencing all speech but the leftist mantras and agenda is not 'all talk.' Falsely accusing people and attempting to frame them is not 'all talk.'

I could go on and on but I think that makes my point.

Leftism, even that which is intended to do no one any harm, is a failed concept because it ignores some basic truths of humanity.

Some examples:

As Benjamin Franklin once observed in 1776, in his world travels he found that when the poor were made more comfortable in their poverty, they did less for themselves and became poorer. When less was done for them they did more for themselves and became richer. Irresponsibility or dependency should never be encouraged but it is a cornerstone of leftist ideology.

While the Bible teaches us to visit those in prison, heal the sick, care for the least among us who are unable to speak or care for themselves, it also teaches us to not be a burden on others, pay our own way, let he who will not work not eat. The left count it as moral and righteous for the government to just throw more and more money at problems and then lack of improvement or results or counterproductive detriment can just be ignored.

The left buys into the religion of climate change and condemns those who point out that the trillions of dollars, manpower, resources, etc. that have gone into the green energy efforts have not reduced CO2 by a single particle so far as we know. And there is zero evidence that further efforts no matter how draconian or counterproductive to quality of life, choices, options, opportunity, will do anything to reduce or even slow down CO2 in the atmosphere. And any of us who point that out are condemned as being anti-science or some such nonsense.

The left have compassion for the poor people migrating to the USA. So much compassion they turn a blind eye to what these people risk when they come here, the child and sex and drug trafficking, the brutality of the cartels, the humanitarian crisis created by such large masses of people with no resources, nowhere to go, no means to support themselves, and the criminal element among them that are wrecking havoc on American citizens. And they know in their heart that trying to support all the world's poor will so drain our resources that we will reduce ourselves to poverty and being unable to help anybody anywhere but it is so politically incorrect to say so none have the courage to say it.

 

[candycorn]

How did it happen? Why did it happen? How does it sustain itself and spread? Inquiring minds want to know.

The left used to be anti-war.
Now they’re giving Zelensky a blank check with no accountability required and don't seem to care that North Korea, Iran, and China are all saber rattling.

The left used to be anti-FBI and other government law enforcement.
Now they own it and use it against law abiding Americans.

The left used to be pro- women.
Now they applaud transgendered men taking women's jobs, sporting records, scholarships, and putting women at higher risk for assault and worse.

The left used to be pro-children.
Now they applaud or turn a blind eye to grooming of children via inappropriate curriculum, entertainment, recreation and don't seem to care that American students are far behind their counterparts in most core subjects around the world.

The left used to be pro-diversity of opinions and freedom of choice.
Now they tell you what opinions you MUST have and how you are required to live.

The left used to be pro-free speech.
Now they say speech is violence, and silence you if you hurt someone’s feelings.

The left used to be American.
Now they are New World Order one world government advocates.

The change has occurred as the left becomes more and more the large majority in government, media, education, entertainment, scientific organizations, big business and has more and more power and control of all.

Are the republicans in Congress who keep approving the money for Ukraine part of "the left"?

What the GOP presidents (Bush and Reagan) did in Afghanistan, we're doing in Ukraine. One of the most vocal champions was a democrat.

So basically; your "questions" are stupid. And so are you.

 

[Oddball]

I am waiting for facts that prove my claims wrong.
if you cannot provide facts , admit it.

Let's start with the Billy Bush tape...

What was the topic of conversation?..What were Bush and Trump talking about?

When did Trump claim that he actually committed sexual assault on any woman?

Post the whole thing, in its full context, and point out where Trump admitted to doing anything anywhere near what unhinged loons like you claim that he did.

I defy you.

 

[Oddball]

Are the republicans in Congress who keep approving the money for Ukraine part of "the left"?

Yes.

What the GOP presidents (Bush and Reagan) did in Afghanistan, we're doing in Ukraine. One of the most vocal champions was a democrat.

When did Reagan abd Bush promise tanks, APCs, modern missile systems, and virtually endless supplies of cash to be skimmed off of?

That any vocal champions of that mess were democrats just underscores what warmongering scum you demoncrats are.

So basically; your "questions" are stupid. And so are you.

So basically your argument is asinine and puerile, and so are you.

 

[CowboyTed]

How did it happen? Why did it happen? How does it sustain itself and spread? Inquiring minds want to know.

The left used to be anti-war.
Now they’re giving Zelensky a blank check with no accountability required and don't seem to care that North Korea, Iran, and China are all saber rattling.

The left used to be anti-FBI and other government law enforcement.
Now they own it and use it against law abiding Americans.

The left used to be pro- women.
Now they applaud transgendered men taking women's jobs, sporting records, scholarships, and putting women at higher risk for assault and worse.

The left used to be pro-children.
Now they applaud or turn a blind eye to grooming of children via inappropriate curriculum, entertainment, recreation and don't seem to care that American students are far behind their counterparts in most core subjects around the world.

The left used to be pro-diversity of opinions and freedom of choice.
Now they tell you what opinions you MUST have and how you are required to live.

The left used to be pro-free speech.
Now they say speech is violence, and silence you if you hurt someone’s feelings.

The left used to be American.
Now they are New World Order one world government advocates.

The change has occurred as the left becomes more and more the large majority in government, media, education, entertainment, scientific organizations, big business and has more and more power and control of all.

Thanks for your opinion of the left which comes from your right-wing media bubble...

It is mainly bullshit... Why is the right obsessed with telling us what the Left thinks...

The Left is pretty simple, they point to actions...

The right has put a Supreme court together which values does not reflect the will of the people...
The right supports tax cuts for the rich and very rich.
The right about banning books and even has brought in laws which bans the Bible.
These are actions...

And it is not only the Left that supports the Ukrainians, a large majority of Americans know that Russia is the enemy and know Russian propaganda being parroted when they see it.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Let's start with the Billy Bush tape...

What was the topic of conversation?..What were Bush and Trump talking about?

When did Trump claim that he actually committed sexual assault on any woman?

Post the whole thing, in its full context, and point out where Trump admitted to doing anything anywhere near what unhinged loons like you claim that he did.

I defy you.

You have to be able to do better than that.
Trump did not admit to sexual assault. He claimed women allow him to do it. Besides that what about 5 kids, 3 marriages, multiple affairs. Having an affair with a stripper, Stormy Daniels, while is wife was home taking care of his 1 year old son. Family values?

How Many Times Has Trump Cheated on His Wives?

Trump's first marriage imploded on the covers of all of New York's tabloids after he brazenly took his mistress, Marla Maples, on a family vacation in Aspen.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Oddball]

First this...

Thanks for your opinion of the left which comes from your right-wing media bubble...

It is mainly bullshit... Why is the right obsessed with telling us what the Left thinks...

The Left is pretty simple, they point to actions...

Then this slew of made-for-teevee shitlib boilerplate blather.

The right has put a Supreme court together which values does not reflect the will of the people...
The right supports tax cuts for the rich and very rich.
The right about banning books and even has brought in laws which bans the Bible.
These are actions...

And it is not only the Left that supports the Ukrainians, a large majority of Americans know that Russia is the enemy and know Russian propaganda being parroted when they see it.

Make self-awareness your friend, moonbat.

 

[Oddball]

You have to be able to do better than that.
Trump did not admit to sexual assault. He claimed women allow him to do it. Besides that what about 5 kids, 3 marriages, multiple affairs. Having an affair with a stripper, Stormy Daniels, while is wife was home taking care of his 1 year old son. Family values?

How Many Times Has Trump Cheated on His Wives?

Trump's first marriage imploded on the covers of all of New York's tabloids after he brazenly took his mistress, Marla Maples, on a family vacation in Aspen.

www.newsweek.com

The Billy Bush conversation wasn't about cheating on wives.

Either answer the question posed, or GTFO.

 

[Foxfyre]

The topic is NOT Trump's marriages or locker room talk egged on with a wildly enthusiastic Billy Bush doing the egging. I defy any of you making those accusations re Trump to tell me that you have never been in a situation that you engaged in some hyperbole or got caught up in the moment and said something or made a quip or joke that out of context would look terrible on the front page of the newspaper or on the evening news.

And anybody saying that has never ever happened to them at any time in their life, I say is most likely a liar.

Before leftism became an authoritarian religion in this country, people could get out of character once in awhile, crack suggestive jokes or make a quip that in context wasn't so bad; out of context would look awful. But that was when intellectual honesty and objectivity and putting things in context were considered virtues and commendable. That sexist or racist quip or whatever might get the offender an eye roll but nobody made a federal case out of it. Especially 5, 10 or more years later.

The left promotes neither intellectual honesty or objectivity or context any more and precious few demonstrate them. They consider it fair game to take anything of our its full context and twist it into anything they want it to be and use it to attack the person. Everybody trying to have a discussion on a specific issue has experienced it.

Yes there are Patriots who use sound bites and phrases or whatever to accuse people too and I don't appreciate it any more when they do it. In fact I am dismayed when Patriots do it. I have come to expect it from the left. I want Patriots to be better.

 

[Oddball]

The topic is NOT Trump's marriages or locker room talk egged on with a wildly enthusiastic Billy Bush doing the egging. I defy any of you making those accusations re Trump to tell me that you have never been in a situation that you engaged in some hyperbole or got caught up in the moment and said something or made a quip or joke that out of context would look terrible on the front page of the newspaper or on the evening news.

He brought it up in the customary avalanche of lies and misrepresentations that the left always hurl Trump's way.

Rather than falling for the trap of trying to deal with the full list of deliberate falsehoods, I picked just one and it can't go unanswered without a flimsy deflection.

 

[Coyote]

Not your Grandfathers RIGHT anymore

The Right used to oppose Russia
The Right used to stand for Family Values
The Right used to support the FBI
The Right used to support NATO
The Right used to support our Democracy and Constitution

And the Right used to be for Free Speech, now they pass laws restricting it.

They used be about parent’s rights…unless you are the parent of a transgender child.

The right used to be about limited government. Now the government is involved in your most intimate decisions, it decides what medical care you or your child can get, it overrules your doctor.

The right used to be for law and order, now they call people who assaulted police trying to protect the Capital “patriots”.

The right used to oppose victimology…now they immerse themselves in it.

 

[Oddball]

And the Right used to be for Free Speech, now they pass laws restricting it.

They used be about parent’s rights…unless you are the parent of a transgender child.

The right used to be about limited government. Now the government is involved in your most intimate decisions, it decides what medical care you or your child can get, it overrules your doctor.

The right used to be for law and order, now they call people who assaulted police trying to protect the Capital “patriots”.

The right used to oppose victimology…now they immerse themselves in it.

Deflection, red herring, whataboutism, and projection, all rolled into one fetid pile of sewage.

 

[Foxfyre]

He brought it up in the customary avalanche of lies and misrepresentations that the left always hurl Trump's way.

Rather than falling for the trap of trying to deal with the full list of deliberate falsehoods, I picked just one and it can't go unanswered without a flimsy deflection.

I wasn't faulting you at all. Yes, it should be addressed and you did that quite competently. I just have this fetish about keeping a thread on topic as much as possible and so if there is a risk of them succeeding in deflecting and derailing the thread, I'll drag it back on track if I can.

 

[Foxfyre]

And the Right used to be for Free Speech, now they pass laws restricting it.

They used be about parent’s rights…unless you are the parent of a transgender child.

The right used to be about limited government. Now the government is involved in your most intimate decisions, it decides what medical care you or your child can get, it overrules your doctor.

The right used to be for law and order, now they call people who assaulted police trying to protect the Capital “patriots”.

The right used to oppose victimology…now they immerse themselves in it.

The right has passed no laws restricting free speech. The right isn't the side pushing political correctness or digging up something somebody said 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago and using it to disqualify somebody. You can try to defend the left doing that all you want, but you will only underscore how ridiculous, unfree, unChristian, unworthy that is.

The right has always been about parents' rights and still are. But the right thinks the biological parents should be responsible to raise the children they conceive and bring into the world and set them on the path of personal responsibility and accountability that enables them to be all they hope to be. The leftist policies are what has decimated far too many of America's families, forced children into poverty, redefined marriage, exalted single parent and non traditional parents, encouraged out of wedlock parenthood and approved decisions of people not to marry. The left applauds all except the best situation for children which is two loving, responsible biological parents in the home. The left refuses to even acknowledge that as the best situation for children.

The right are still for small, efficient, effective government that is pretty much limited to what the Constitution allows. They do take exception to the killing of children, born and unborn, and do not believe Citizen A should have to be responsible to clean up after and/or pay for the choices of Citizen B. It has only been in the last few decades that the left made abortion a socially accepted, even desirable form of birth control.

The right are for law and order, a military trained to defeat our enemies, domestic and abroad, and a police force trained to serve and protect law abiding citizens from criminals. No Patriot approves of any person assaulting another but takes strong offense at those who accuse all who went to the Jan 6 protest rally of assaulting or approving of assault. And the right takes strong offense to those who accuse even the vast majority who attended that rally of insurrection while saying the riots of 2020 were just mostly peaceful protests.

The right still opposes victimology based on ones skin color or heritage or ethnicity or gender or whatever. We know when a person is actually attacked and/or wronged and thereby becomes a victim. A person is not a victim just because he/she happened to be born black or whatever.

 

[LeftofLeft]

How did it happen? Why did it happen? How does it sustain itself and spread? Inquiring minds want to know.

The left used to be anti-war.
Now they’re giving Zelensky a blank check with no accountability required and don't seem to care that North Korea, Iran, and China are all saber rattling.

The left used to be anti-FBI and other government law enforcement.
Now they own it and use it against law abiding Americans.

The left used to be pro- women.
Now they applaud transgendered men taking women's jobs, sporting records, scholarships, and putting women at higher risk for assault and worse.

The left used to be pro-children.
Now they applaud or turn a blind eye to grooming of children via inappropriate curriculum, entertainment, recreation and don't seem to care that American students are far behind their counterparts in most core subjects around the world.

The left used to be pro-diversity of opinions and freedom of choice.
Now they tell you what opinions you MUST have and how you are required to live.

The left used to be pro-free speech.
Now they say speech is violence, and silence you if you hurt someone’s feelings.

The left used to be American.
Now they are New World Order one world government advocates.

The change has occurred as the left becomes more and more the large majority in government, media, education, entertainment, scientific organizations, big business and has more and more power and control of all.

One constant is they always loved fascists and radicals. Who picks communist professors as mentors or admires Alinsky?