Israel / Palestine

[Bry]

Nt, I guess it was the silence before the storm, not the stunned silence I jokingly dubbed it. I'm not going to get a commentary in tonight as it is almost 4:30 AM here. Just wanted to inquire into the identity of the report on the six day war. Where did you pick that up?
Bry

 

[ccc343]

Sir,

I would like to point out that your history of the six day war is somewhat flawed. What was not mentioned was our ALLY attacking the USS Liberty on 8 June 1967. The Liberty was sailing in International water off the Sinai coast when she was attacked by naval and air forces of the IDF. Her crew suffered 34 dead and 171 wounded. Israel claimed a case of mistaken identity, but considering that the attack lasted for over an hour makes that point ludicrous. How could one of the most highly trained air forces in the world mistake the Liberty for a horse carrier? If you have never heard of the incident, might I suggest a visit to
http://www.ussliberty.org


My father served aboard the Liberty and was transferred off before the fateful cruise. One of the men killed was sitting where my dad would have been at his battle station.

But considering we have no greater ALLY in the world than Israel, this entire incident was swept under the rug and our unconditional support of Israel continues to this day. Why is this??

 

[Bry]

Damn, you go ccc343! And BTW, welcome on board!


(jejejeje...)




for anyone curious, jejeje is typed laughter in Spanish, as the j is pronounced like a more gutteral h.

 

[janeeng]

Such a wise ass Bry!

 

[ccc343]

http://www.ussliberty.org/forslund.htm

http://www.ussliberty.org/gotcher.htm

http://www.usni.org/proceedings/Articles03/PROwalsh06.htm

http://www.ussliberty.org/nsafiles.htm

 

[NightTrain]

Hi, CC

You're right, I completely forgot about the Liberty incident.

I'm not sure what the real deal was behind that, but I'm sure that Israel didn't intentionally attack a U.S. ship - that would be completely counter productive to anything they were trying to accomplish.

What does your Dad say about it? I'm sure he'd have a unique perspective since I'm sure he talked to his old shipmates after the fact.

Mistaken identity attacks / friendly fire is still a problem to this day. Not too long ago we bombed some Canadians in Afghanistan, even though all of the units' positions are supposed to be relayed to any combat pilots flying in the area. There are safeguards & technology to prevent this from happening; yet it continues to happen - although at a much lower rate these days.


Bry : Sorry, I thought I included the url : http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/67_War.html

 

[Bry]

Originally posted by NightTrain

Thanks for these replies, NT, you've obviously put alot of thought into them.

Yep, we do indeed give aid to Israel. We also give money and aid to many other countries, including those who preach against both Israel and the USA. We give more money and aid away than anyone else in the world. So what?

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I mean, so what? we are entering into record debt with Social Security about to enter crisis. Don't you think it's time to reevaluate how we hand out our money? Reports on the progress of the US economy isn't exactly glowing. I think it's great that we contribute to the human problems like HIV and population control. Those are things which affect all of us. But aid in the form of arms? We are, after all, the world's leading supplier in arms. This is not exactly something to boast about, at least as far as i'm concerned. Could you provide me with a reliable source which details exactly how our international aid money gets spent and by whom?

Israel is a fundamentalist regime? Are you sure? How so?

Sharon is from the Likud party. They represent precisely the Zionist extremists that I have a problem with. It is the same party that insists on building and maintaining the settlements in Palestenian territories that the UN has already declared illegal, and they represent what remains of the original drive to create a Jewish state at the expense of a few hundred thousand Palestinians. Here is an exerpt and link to an excellent site, which I hope you will take the time to read through. It gives precisely the argument that I would be inclined to agree with: that both sides have commited horrible atrocities, but that all of the violence stems from the initial creation of the Jewish state for which the palestenians do have a real grievance. (Once again, we are talking about only 50 years, here, not ancient history. There is no statute of limitations for murder, nor do I think there should be one in this case. As a side note, the Jews are still persuing and receiving reparations for the crimes commited against them in WWII, as is only just connsidering the great many individuals and institutions whose fortunes grew exponentially thanks to the money they stole from the Jews.)

"As the periodic bloodshed continues in the Middle East, the search for an equitable solution must come to grips with the root cause of the conflict. The conventional wisdom is that, even if both sides are at fault, the Palestinians are irrational " terrorists" who have no point of view worth listening to. Our position, however, is that the Palestinians have a real grievance: their homeland for over a thousand years was taken, without their consent and mostly by force, during the creation of the state of Israel. And all subsequent crimes- on both sides- inevitably follow from this original injustice. This paper outlines the history of Palestine to show how this process occurred and what a moral solution to the region’s problems should consist of. If you care about the people of the Middle East, Jewish and Arab, you owe it to yourself to read this account of the other side of the historical record."

http://www.mediareviewnet.com/JewsForJustice.htm

Convicted of War Crimes? You're obviously referring to to that comedy in Belgium. You know, the one that the USA doesn't recognize? They can convict away, it's not internationally recognized & therefore doesn't hold water.

Yes, I know it is part of a movement which the US does not in any way, shape, or form accept or condone It is part of the same movement which produced Garzon's attempt to prosecute Pinochet for war crimes here in Spain, and it is a movement which I think is a good idea, just as I believe (and the US agrees) that war trials are justified, and have produced the bringing to justice of Nazi criminals and of ex-Yogoslav president Milocevic. It seems a contradiction to me that those criminals which are apprehended in the process of conducting a war may be tried in a court of law, but those crimes against humanity which do not produce a war go un punished. Of course, in order to sanction an international court, the US must be willing to recognize that they too may be tried for crimes against humanity. But the US seems to believe, in a double standard which is typical, that justice is a one way street, and that they themselves are justified in commiting what ever atrocity in support of their own agenda, even as they prosecute crimes of an international order in which they themselves may be construed as the primary victim.

I would recommend that the US do everything they can to support the establishment of international courts for international crimes, and that they in fact provide leadership in this area to insure that it is arranged in as fair and just a manner as possible.

I am grateful for your providing an historical account of the Belgium court with regard to the case on Sharon. I know that Sharon claims his responsibility for the masacres at Sabra and Shatila is at best indirect, but there is significant evidence to the contrary.

 

[Bry]

Continuing with your third installment. As to the report you have presented with regard to the Six Day war, I would say that it is detached from its historical context in relation to the cricumstances surrounding the creation of the Jewish state of Israel. I am still curious about the identity of the author. I see his name appears at the top, but I would like to know a little more about him. More of my thoughts regarding the Six Day War will follow.

It sure did, thanks! I enjoy history, and am always up to learn more about it.

For the record, NT, I do not pretend to be an expert on the history of Israel either. Not long ago, I too was a firm supporter of Israel's righteousness. When I say that it seems Americans seem less than educated about this very important history which effects them in very direct ways, I was including my own ignorance and at the same time lamenting the biased and incomplete education most of us received in the United States. It was not until I left the US two and a half years ago that I began to get a sense of the world's perspective. I am excited about delving further into this interesting topic by way of this dialogue.

The problem here is that after the holocaust during WWII it was decided to set up a Jewish homeland. Where should that be? Probably where they came from, orginally.

I do not see this as the logical conclusion. It was decided by whom? From what I have read about the British protectorate of Palestine and the subsequent rising of tensions resulting from the land grab perpetuated by the invasive Zionist immigrants, this question of the formation of a Jewish homeland was anything but decided by England and the UN. A proposal to divide the homelands was considered unequitable by the Arabs concerned, and they rejected the proposition as it was stated. When England pulled out without the issue being resolved, the instant result was the outbreak of war, in which the Zionists succeeded in creating a nucleus of territory and defending it from the surrounding Arab forces. Palestenians left within that nucleus either fled or were pushed out of their homes. To a significant extent, I acknowledge that the plight of the Paletenians was aggravated rather than mitigated by the interventions on the part of neighboring Arab countries.

I think you should research a bit about how the Middle East was set up by the British and French in the early 1900s. Lawrence of Arabia was there at the time. Borders were drawn up by Europeans, not by the Arabs.

I am in the process of reinforcing my education in this area. See above.

You're correct in that some Arabs were displaced to make way for the Jews; however the Jews had been there as well for thousands of years. Who was there first? Does it really matter today?

The Palestenians and the Jews had coexisted more or less peacefully for almost 1500 years until the beginning of the exodus of Zionists to the region beginning more or less at the turn of the century, but excellerating dramatically as a result of WWII.

Bry

 

[NightTrain]

Could you provide me with a reliable source which details exactly how our international aid money gets spent and by whom?

Sure, here's one - this is strictly Government aid, I understand that aid from the Private Sector is a huge figure as well.


House Passes $17.1 Billion FY04 Foreign Aid Spending Bill
Measure includes funds for AIDS, Millennium Challenge Account

By Kathryn McConnell
Washington File Staff Writer

Washington -- The House of Representatives has approved a $17.1 billion foreign aid and export assistance spending bill for the fiscal year beginning October 1 (FY04).

The measure passed 370-50 July 23 includes $1.43 billion for administration initiatives to combat HIV/AIDS in Africa and the Caribbean and $800 million for the Millennium Challenge Account (MCA), President Bush's program that would direct foreign aid to countries that meet such standards as investing in education, promoting economic and democratic reforms, and respecting human rights.

The approved funding is below the administration's $18.9 billion request for FY04 but slightly higher than the $16.5 billion enacted for fiscal year 2003.

The House voted July 16 by approximately the same margin to authorize the spending of the amount for foreign aid in FY04.

In cutting $500 million from the administration's request for the MCA, the House signaled that the new program was not yet ready for full funding, according to news reports.

Some members also said the AIDS effort is just beginning and could not appropriately use all of the $3 billion originally proposed by Bush; they cut off attempts to amend the bill by adding either $1 billion or $300 million.

The House did, however, separately approve an additional $644 million to fight AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis in a spending bill for the departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, bringing the AIDS total funding to more than $2 billion. The administration has pledged to spend $15 billion over five years to fight AIDS globally.

The foreign aid bill would provide $4.7 billion for the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), $46 million below the administration's request but $166 million more than FY03 spending. It also would provide $314 million for the Peace Corps.

After the Senate passes its version of the bill, both chambers must then negotiate and pass a final version before sending it to the president for signature or veto.

The bill would fund Bush's requests of $2.2 billion in military and $480 million in economic aid for Israel and $1.3 billion in military and $575 million in economic aid for Egypt. It appropriates $456 million in military and economic aid for Jordan and $35 million for aid to Lebanon. For the first time, it would provide $20 million in aid to the Palestinian Authority.

In approving the measure the House rejected an attempt to include Syria on the government's list of state sponsors of terrorism ineligible to receive military training aid.

The bill would provide $600 million for humanitarian and reconstruction assistance for Afghanistan but does not include funding for reconstruction in Iraq. Lawmakers said the administration is expected to propose an emergency spending bill for Iraq later this year.

The bill appropriates $45 million for the new Middle East Partnership Initiative (MEPI), which supports economic and social reform initiatives in the region.

It includes $576 million for the republics of the former Soviet Union, $70 million for Kosovo, $46 million for Bosnia, $100 million for Serbia, $35 million for Montenegro, $39 million for Macedonia and $28 million each for Albania, Romania and Bulgaria.

The bill includes $731 million to fight illegal drugs in South America, $1.3 billion for international financial institutions and $760 million for migration and refugee assistance.

The measure also includes a total of $187 million for export assistance programs, which would be fully offset by incoming loan payments of $306 million, according to news sources.

U.S. foreign aid is less than 1 percent of overall government spending, news sources say.

http://usinfo.state.gov/usinfo/Archive/2003/Jul/24-237617.html

 

[NightTrain]

Here's a little more breakdown from USAID, they're only one part of the foreign aid money wagon :



Summary of USAID Fiscal Year 2004 Budget Request

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
FACT SHEET


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WASHINGTON, DC 20523
PRESS OFFICE
http://www.usaid.gov
(202) 712-4320

2003-003

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


February 3, 2003

"Millions are facing great affliction, but with our help, they will not face it alone. America has a special calling to come to their aid and we will do so with the compassion and generosity that have always defined the United States."
-President George W. Bush, February 1, 2003

WASHINGTON - The President's budget requests $8.7 billion in fiscal year 2004 for development and humanitarian assistance administered by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). It includes increases in basic education and agriculture, two priority areas for the administration. USAID will program and manage approximately $5.1 billion and will manage an additional $3.6 billion which it will program in coordination with the Department of State.

USAID programs are funded from several different budgetary accounts: Child Survival and Health (CSH: $1.495 billion), Development Assistance (DA: $1.345 billion), International Disaster Assistance (IDA:$236 million), Transition Initiatives (TI: $55 million) and P.L. 480 Food for Peace ($1.185 billion). The Support for East European Democracies (SEED: $435 million) and the FREEDOM Support Act (FSA: $576 million) accounts fund programs in Europe and Eurasia and are jointly managed with the Department of State, while Economic Support Funds (ESF: $2.535 billion) finance programs administered by USAID at the State Department's request.

The fiscal year 2004 budget request builds on the Agency's programmatic "pillars": Democracy, Conflict and Humanitarian Assistance; Economic Growth and Global Health. The Global Development Alliance, USAID's fourth "pillar," mobilizes resources from and alliances with U.S. public and private sectors and is funded at $15 million.

Democracy, Conflict and Humanitarian Assistance
In fiscal year 2002, USAID responded to 75 disasters in 60 countries--50 natural disasters, and 25 complex or human-caused emergencies. Many humanitarian disasters arise from the failure of states or stem from natural conditions and are exacerbated by poor governance. USAID seeks to address not just the symptoms but the causes of these humanitarian crises by helping to create transparent, accountable systems of governance. Key areas include:

Democracy and governance, conflict mitigation and human rights programs: $212 million. This includes funding to support elections, the rule of law and anti-corruption and anti-trafficking efforts.
Transition initiatives: $55 million. Fast and flexible assistance eases the transition of countries moving from war to peace, from civil conflict to national reconciliation, or consumed by political strife that is not yet violent.
Disaster assistance: $236 million. Emergency needs might include medicines and health care, seeds to restart agricultural production when crops fail, potable water and sanitation after a flood.
Food assistance: $1.185 billion (P.L. 480 Title II). Approximately half of the food assistance budget will be set aside for emergency situations and programmed as events unfold. The balance is programmed both to relieve chronic food shortages and finance developmental activities.
Economic Growth, Agriculture and Trade
USAID's investments in basic education and sustainable agriculture increase in fiscal year 2004, while its micro-enterprise, trade and investment, and environmental programs create opportunities for individuals and enhance economies' productivity and sustainability. Key areas include:

Education: $262 million. The highest priority remains primary and secondary education ($212 million) with a 28 percent increase over fiscal year 2003. Basic education programs will emphasize increasing access to education in Africa and improving teacher training in Latin America. In addition, $50 million will be devoted to higher education, training and literacy.
Agriculture: $269 million. This is an increase of $8 million over fiscal year 2003. Special attention will be given to food security and sustainable agriculture in sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia.
Business, Trade and Investment: $316 million. Stronger linkages between trade and development will increase the capacity of developing countries to participate in and benefit from global and regional trade.
Environment: $286 million. Programs will reduce the threat of global climate change ($155 million), conserve biodiversity, promote sound management of natural resources, reduce illegal logging, and increase access to clean water and sanitation.
Global Health
USAID is recognized as a world leader in combating HIV/AIDS and other infectious diseases, as well as promoting child survival and maternal health. Investing in the health of the world's population contributes to global economic growth and reduction of poverty. Key areas include:

HIV/AIDS: $790 million total ($750 million under CSH and $40 million from other accounts such as the FREEDOM Support Act), including $150 million for the President's Mother and Child HIV Prevention Initiative and $100 million for the Global Fund for AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria.
Family planning and reproductive health programs: $425 million ($346 million under the CSH account and $79 million from other accounts)
Child survival and maternal health ($285 million) and other infectious diseases ($104 million) remain important elements of USAID's overall health program.
Europe and Eurasia
The administration requests $435 million for Assistance to Eastern Europe and the Baltics, giving priority to the still fragile Balkan states of Serbia ($95 million), Kosovo ($79 million), Bosnia-Herzegovina ($44 million), and Macedonia ($39 million). Assistance to Eurasia will total $576 million, with the Central Asian republics and Azerbaijan expected to receive up to $198 million.

Economic Support Funds
USAID will administer $2.5 billion in assistance given to countries supporting the economic and political foreign policy interests of the United States. Major recipients of this aid include countries central to the Middle East peace process-Egypt, Israel, Jordan, and the West Bank and Gaza-and front-line states in the war on terrorism, including Turkey, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Operating Expenses and Capital Investment Fund
USAID is requesting $604 million for operating costs and $146 million for capital investment to administer an $8 billion program. A modest increase in the operating budget will allow USAID to hire additional HIV/AIDS officers and recruitand train junior foreign service officers to fill in the ranks behind retiring officers. Major capital expenditure needs include construction of new buildings and improving security of existing facilities, and modernizing information systems.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The U.S. Agency for International Development has provided economic and humanitarian assistance worldwide for more than 40 years.

 

[Bry]

great! thanks, NT.

Bry

 

[5stringJeff]

Man... take a weekend off from the boards and you totally fall behind!

NT, you probably covered a lot of the points I would have made. One thing, however, that I have seen in these posts is the claim that the Jewish settlers forced hundreds of thousands of Palestains from their homes. In fact, in the days and weeks before Israel was created as a nation, the surrounding countries of Syria, Jordan, Egypt, etc. decided that they would invade the newborn nation and wipe the Jews off the map altogether. So they told the Palestinians to temporarily move out of the ways of the invading armies, and that whenever the war against Israel was over, they could move back. Obviously, that war (and those that followed) did not go well at all for the Arabs, so there were suddenly hundreds of thousands of refugees.

 

[ccc343]

NightTrain,

If you talk to any attack survivor, the first thing they will mention is that the attack was deliberate. Click on the follwing links to view statements made by 2 men that had intimate knowledge of secret NSA communications from that fateful day.

http://ussliberty.org/forslund.htm

http://ussliberty.org/gotcher.htm

11 recon overflights the morning of the attack, positive identification of the Liberty in the IDF war room, the jamming of radio freq's unique to the Liberty, mistaking the Liberty for a broken down horse carrier, with its unique topside antenna arrays
http://ussliberty.org/g/samosamo.gif) and the machine gunning of life rafts in the water=DELIBERATE attack with the intent of leaving NO SURVIVORS..

 

[Bry]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Man... take a weekend off from the boards and you totally fall behind!

NT, you probably covered a lot of the points I would have made. One thing, however, that I have seen in these posts is the claim that the Jewish settlers forced hundreds of thousands of Palestains from their homes. In fact, in the days and weeks before Israel was created as a nation, the surrounding countries of Syria, Jordan, Egypt, etc. decided that they would invade the newborn nation and wipe the Jews off the map altogether. So they told the Palestinians to temporarily move out of the ways of the invading armies, and that whenever the war against Israel was over, they could move back. Obviously, that war (and those that followed) did not go well at all for the Arabs, so there were suddenly hundreds of thousands of refugees.

Here's something I've found which would refute what you're saying. Thanks for the response.

Expulsion of 1948



"Israeli propaganda has largely relinquished the claim that the Palestinian exodus of 1948 was 'self-inspired'. Official circles implicitly concede that the Arab population fled as a result of Israeli action - whether directly, as in the case of Lydda and Ramleh, or indirectly, due to the panic that and similar actions (the Deir Yassin massacre) inspired in Arab population centers throughout Palestine. However, even though the historical record has been grudgingly set straight, the Israeli establishment still refused to accept moral or political responsibility for the refugee problem, it or its predecessors actively created." Peretz Kidron, quoted in "Blaming the Victims"



"The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) monitored all Middle Eastern broadcasts throughout 1948. The records, and companion ones by a United States monitoring unit, can be seen at the British Museum. There was not a single order or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine, from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is a repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put." Erskine Childers, British researcher, quoted in Sami Hadawi, "Bitter Harvest"



"That Ben Gurion's ultimate aim was to evacuate as much of the Arab population as possible from the Jewish state can hardly be doubted, if only from the variety of means he employed to achieve his purpose... most decisively, the destruction of whole villages and the eviction of their inhabitants... even if they had not participated in the war and had stayed in Israel hoping to live in peace and equality, as promised in the Declaration of Independence." Israeli author, Simha Flapan "The Birth of Israel"



The deliberate destruction of Arab villages to prevent return of Palestinians

"During May 1948, ideas about how to consolidate and give permanence to the Palestinian exile began to crystallize, and the destruction of villages was immediately perceived as a primary means of achieving this aim... Even earlier, on 10 April, Haganah units took Abu Shusha... The village was destroyed that night... Khulda was leveled by Jewish bulldozers on 20 April... Abu Zureiq was completely demolished... Al Mansi and An Naghnaghiya, to the southeast, were also leveled... By mid-1949, the majority of the 350 depopulated Arab villages were either completely or partly in ruins and uninhabitable...

...Ben Gurion clearly wanted as few Arabs as possible to remain in the Jewish state. He hoped to see them flee. He said as much to his colleagues and aides in meetings in August, September and October 1948. But no general expulsion policy was ever enunciated and Ben Gurion always refrained from issuing clear or written expulsion orders; he preferred that his Generals 'understand' what he wanted done. He wished to avoid going down in history as the 'great expeller' and he did not want the Israeli government to be implicated in a morally questionable policy... But while there was no 'expulsion policy', the July and October 1948 offensives were characterized by far more expulsions and, indeed, brutality towards Arab civilians than the first half of the war." Benny Morris "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949"



"The first UN General Assembly resolution, Number 194, affirming the right of Palestinians to return to their homes and property, was passed on December 11, 1948. It has been repassed no less than twenty-eight times since that first date. Whereas the moral and political right of a person to return to his place of uninterrupted residence is acknowledged everywhere, Israel has negated the possibility of return, and systematically and juridically made it impossible, on any grounds whatever, for the Arab Palestinian to return, be compensated for his property, or live in Israel as a citizen equal before the law with a Jewish Israeli." Edward Said "The Question of Palestine"



"The fact that the Arabs fled in terror, because of real fear of a repetition of the 1948 Zionist massacres, is no reason for denying them their homes, fields and livelihoods. Civilians caught in an area of military activity generally panic. But they have always been able to return to their homes when the danger subsides. Military conquest does not abolish private rights to property; nor does it entitle the victor to confiscate the homes, property and personal belongings of the noncombatant civilian population. The seizure of Arab property by the Israelis was an outrage." Sami Hadawi "Bitter Harvest"



What was the fate of the Palestinians who had now become refugees?

"The winter of 1949, the first winter of exile for more than seven hundred fifty thousand Palestinians, was cold and hard. Families huddled in caves, abandoned huts, or makeshift tents. Many of the starving were only miles away from their own vegetable gardens and orchards in occupied Palestine, the new state of Israel. At the end of 1949 the United Nations finally acted, it set up the United Nations Relief and Works Administration (UNRWA) to take over sixty refugee camps from voluntary agencies. It managed to keep people alive, but only barely." "Our Roots Are Still Alive" by The Peoples Press Palestine Book Project.

 

[Bry]

Here's some more.

How long has Palestine been a specifically Arab country?

"Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. Almost immediately thereafter its boundaries and its characteristics, including its name in Arabic, Filastin, became known to the entire Islamic world, as much for its fertility and beauty as for its religious significance...In 1516, Palestine became a province of the Ottoman Empire, but this made it no less fertile, no less Arab or Islamic...

...Sixty percent of the population was in agriculture; the balance was divided between townspeople and a relatively small nomadic group. All these people believed themselves to belong in a land called Palestine, despite their feelings that they were also members of a large Arab nation...

...Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314." Edward Said "The Question of Palestine"



Zionism

"The Zionists made no secret of their intentions, for as early as 1921, Dr. Eder, a member of the Zionist Commission, boldly told the Court of Inquiry, `there can be only one National Home in Palestine, and that a Jewish one, and no equality in the partnership between Jews and Arabs, but a Jewish preponderance as soon as the numbers of the race are sufficiently increased.' He then asked that only Jews should be allowed to bear arms." Sami Hadawi "Bitter Harvest"

"We shall try to spirit the penniless Arab population across the border by procuring employment for it in transit countries, while denying it employment in our own country... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, quoted in John Quigley's "Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice"

"I am also surprised at the leaders of the Agudah who want thousands of Jews to move to Eretz Israel. How can they ignore the welfare of their children, since there is no other place on earth where there is so much heresy and sectarianism as in the Holy Land in our day." Rabbi Shaul Brach of Kashoa.

"Clearly, the last thing the Zionists really wanted was that all the inhabitants of Palestine should have an equal say in running the country... Chaim Weizmann had impressed on Churchill that representative government would have spelled the end of the Jewish National Home in Palestine... Churchill declared: `The present form of government will continue for many years. Step by step we shall develop representative institutions leading to full self-government, but our children's children will have passed away before that is accomplished." David Hirst "The Gun and the Olive Branch"

"The main danger which Israel, as a 'Jewish state', poses to its own people, to other Jews and to its neighbors, is its ideologically motivated pursuit of territorial expansion and the inevitable series of wars resulting from this aim... No Zionist politician has ever repudiated Ben Gurion's idea that Israeli policies must be based, within the limits of practical considerations, on the restoration of Biblical borders as the borders of the Jewish state." Israeli professor, Israel Shahak "Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of 3000 Years"

"In Israeli Prime Minister Moshe Sharatt's personal diaries, there is an excerpt from May of 1955 in which he quotes Moshe Dayan as follows: `Israel must see the sword as the main, if not the only, instrument with which to keep its morale high and to retain its moral tension. Toward this end it may, no - it must - invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of provocation-and-revenge... And above all - let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space." Quoted in Livia Rokach's "Israel's Sacred Terrorism"

 

[Man of 1951]

Very good research Bry.....just wondering where you found that information, as in where i could find more of those articles.

 

[Bry]

Most of these quotes are taken from books, and the full texts cannot be found on the internet. You can find some writings by Edward Said, I think. He died last week, or two weeks ago and he's getting alot of attention right now. I'd read him at the University and own one of his books. As for specific sites, these quotes came from:

http://membres.lycos.fr/israelonline/expulsion_of_1948.htm

(it wasn't my research, though I am familiar with many of the works that are cited.) There is much more there I didn't post.

Others:
http://www.mediareviewnet.com/JewsForJustice.htm
http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/barak_eng.swf

 

[Man of 1951]

thanks Bry.

Don't take my asking for sources a way of questioning the integrity of the report. I'm making a website with a couple of friends, and we're gonna post a lot of articles and stuff, so i just wanted to get those

Thanks!!

 

[TRIVILINA68]

PLEASE PRAY FOR THE PALESTINE PEOPLE , HOW MUCH MORE SUFFERING AND PAIN THEY HAVE TO SUFFER. IT IS SO SAD TO SEE ALL THE CRIME THAT ISRAEL IS DOING AND THE USA DOES NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I AM ASKING FOR PRAYERS AND TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. EVERYONE LIES ABOUT THE PROBLEM BETWEEN PALESTINE AND ISRAEL. THEY DONT ADMIT THAT ISRAEL HAS THE TOTAL CONTROL , KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE OF ALL AGES . STOP THE CRIME , USA OPEN YOUR EYES IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT YOU ALL KNOW THE TRUTH , ISRAEL CRIMINALS STOP THE ABUSE. GOD WILL PUNISH YOU.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by TRIVILINA68
PLEASE PRAY FOR THE PALESTINE PEOPLE , HOW MUCH MORE SUFFERING AND PAIN THEY HAVE TO SUFFER. IT IS SO SAD TO SEE ALL THE CRIME THAT ISRAEL IS DOING AND THE USA DOES NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I AM ASKING FOR PRAYERS AND TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. EVERYONE LIES ABOUT THE PROBLEM BETWEEN PALESTINE AND ISRAEL. THEY DONT ADMIT THAT ISRAEL HAS THE TOTAL CONTROL , KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE OF ALL AGES . STOP THE CRIME , USA OPEN YOUR EYES IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT YOU ALL KNOW THE TRUTH , ISRAEL CRIMINALS STOP THE ABUSE. GOD WILL PUNISH YOU.

I'll help you solve your problem, MOVE!

Somehow it's "our" responsibility that you people blow the shit out of one another?