Isaiah 53 Explained to the Non Jew

[irosie91]

too much gematria for me

 

[aris2chat]

Irosie that last supper nonsense was borrowed from babylon where there were twelve gods sitting at a table in walked loki and there were 13 thus one had to die because the natural order was 12 months of the year 12 signs of the zodiac as a matter of fact 13 was so hated it was expunged from many places you can still see this when you get in an elevator and the 13 th floor is missing....just another plagerism not based in any fact and the romans used it to blame judas or the jews....pretty sneaky on their part?.

You can tell many of the stories of the bible from looking at the stars. Gemini, Taurus, Aries, Pieces, Aquarius.....

As for the zodiac itself, we now have 13 signs not just 12, Serpentarius

 

[irosie91]

I agree with him as well about the suffering servant but:

Those are Isaiah's words not Gods. Also the God Isaiah is talking about is the Jewish God, theirs alone. God never said a word in the Bible, all man wrote.

what point are you trying to make? They are the words of the bible which according to the writers of the New Testament, Jesus believed. If you are interested in whatever it was that was the POV of Jesus-----the words he believed to be true----would be of interest to you if you
believe any of the words of the "new testament" have any value at all

I don't care what the writers of Jesus believed, he never wrote a word , get a grip on reality. The bible is not the word of God but the word of man, period.

oh----ok so you admit that when you make claims as to that which Jesus taught or believed----you are simply lying. I am a little surprised that you are willing to admit
it. If Jesus was anything at all like he is presented by the writers of the "new testament"----then he was able to and, therefore, probably did write sometime in his life

Possibly he did say a few of those words,and he hung out with the gentiles as he did not fit in with the Jews of the day, save for 12 and one stabbed him in the back, the only one from Judea, go figure.

you got some citation on that "jesus hung out with gentiles" thing------it's not in the NT and I do not know where else to look. Some ancient writings upon which you have stumbled?

 

[Avatar4321]

How is anyone healed by Israel's suffering?

 

[Avatar4321]

I agree with him as well about the suffering servant but:

Those are Isaiah's words not Gods. Also the God Isaiah is talking about is the Jewish God, theirs alone. God never said a word in the Bible, all man wrote.

what point are you trying to make? They are the words of the bible which according to the writers of the New Testament, Jesus believed. If you are interested in whatever it was that was the POV of Jesus-----the words he believed to be true----would be of interest to you if you
believe any of the words of the "new testament" have any value at all

I don't care what the writers of Jesus believed, he never wrote a word , get a grip on reality. The bible is not the word of God but the word of man, period.

oh----ok so you admit that when you make claims as to that which Jesus taught or believed----you are simply lying. I am a little surprised that you are willing to admit
it. If Jesus was anything at all like he is presented by the writers of the "new testament"----then he was able to and, therefore, probably did write sometime in his life

Possibly he did say a few of those words,and he hung out with the gentiles as he did not fit in with the Jews of the day, save for 12 and one stabbed him in the back, the only one from Judea, go figure.

try reading the book----there is absolutely no time noted in the only book which records anything at all about jesus,, to wit the 'new testament' .. that puts jesus in the company of any gentiles at all In fact the record indicates that it is unlikely that he would drink so much as a glass of water in the house of a lump of shit like you or even set foot in your house. No wonder your nun teacher told you not to read the
book. When Jesus said "cast not your pearls before swine" -----who do you imagine 'the swine' are? btw---the phrase was commonly used at that time and its meaning is well known to people familiar with Hebrew and Aramaic usages at that time. It is very likely
that Jesus said some of the words attributed to him in the "new testament"-----
all of the Pharisees were quoting &/or paraphrasing Hillel at that time.

The Bible isn't the only book that records anything about Jesus. The Book of Mormon is an account of his ministry to the native Americans.

Read it for yourself.

3 Nephi 11

 

[hobelim]

you got some citation on that "jesus hung out with gentiles" thing------it's not in the NT and I do not know where else to look. Some ancient writings upon which you have stumbled?

"Thereupon the Spirit led him away into the wilderness, and there he remained for forty days tempted by Satan. He was among the wild beasts; and the angels waited on him." mark 1:13

Here it clearly shows that before Jesus began teaching he live among the gentiles, the wild beasts being figurative for the romans etc., and the wilderness being figurative for non Jewish areas that were not governed by Mosaic law.

This would explain his predilection to party with sinners and prostitutes and for keeping company with all sorts of bad characters.

 

[irosie91]

you got some citation on that "jesus hung out with gentiles" thing------it's not in the NT and I do not know where else to look. Some ancient writings upon which you have stumbled?

"Thereupon the Spirit led him away into the wilderness, and there he remained for forty days tempted by Satan. He was among the wild beasts; and the angels waited on him." mark 1:13

Here it clearly shows that before Jesus began teaching he live among the gentiles, the wild beasts being figurative for the romans etc., and the wilderness being figurative for non Jewish areas that were not governed by Mosaic law.

This would explain his predilection to party with sinners and prostitutes and for keeping company with all sorts of bad characters.

SHEEEESH even my grandmother did not
refer to gentiles as "wild beasts" (unless they were Cossacks)

 

[Delta4Embassy]

And the christian misuse

The original Hebrew text clearly refers to the Jewish people as the “Suffering Servant,” over the centuries Isaiah 53 has become a cornerstone of the Christian claim that Jesus is the Messiah. Unfortunately, this claim is based on widespread mistranslations and distortion of context.

In order to properly understand these verses, one must read the original Hebrew text. When the Bible is translated into other languages, it loses much of its essence. The familiar King James translation uses language which is archaic and difficult for the modern reader. Furthermore, it is not rooted in Jewish sources and often goes against traditional Jewish teachings. Modern translations, while more readable, are often even more divorced from the true meaning of the text.

The key to deciphering any biblical text is to view it in context. Isaiah 53 is the fourth of the four “Servant Songs.” (The others are found in Isaiah chapters 42, 49 and 50.) Though the “servant” in Isaiah 53 is not openly identified – these verses merely refer to “My servant” (52:13, 53:11) – the “servant” in each of the previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the Jewish nation. Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant”:

The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant”; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.

One obvious question that needs to be addressed and is misunderstood by christians: How can the “Suffering Servant,” which the verses refer to grammatically in the singular, be equated with the entire Jewish nation?

This question evaporates when we discover that throughout the Bible, the Jewish people are consistently referred to as a singular entity, using the singular pronoun. For example, when God speaks to the entire Jewish nation at Mount Sinai, all of the Ten Commandments are written as if speaking to an individual (Exodus 20:1-14). This is because the Jewish people are one unit, bound together with a shared national destiny (see Exodus 4:22, Deuteronomy chapter 32). This singular reference is even more common in biblical verses referring to the Messianic era, when the Jewish people will be fully united under the banner of God (see Hosea 14:6-7, Jeremiah 50:19).

As we will see, for numerous reasons this chapter cannot be referring to the christians Jesus. Even in the Christian scriptures, the disciples did not consider the Suffering Servant as referring to Jesus (see Matthew 16:21-22, Mark 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45).

Funny how the prophesized Moshiach 'who will be called Immanuel' turned out to be some guy named Yeshua. Things that make you go hmm.

 

[hobelim]

SHEEEESH even my grandmother did not
refer to gentiles as "wild beasts" (unless they were Cossacks)

And the christian misuse

The original Hebrew text clearly refers to the Jewish people as the “Suffering Servant,” over the centuries Isaiah 53 has become a cornerstone of the Christian claim that Jesus is the Messiah. Unfortunately, this claim is based on widespread mistranslations and distortion of context.

In order to properly understand these verses, one must read the original Hebrew text. When the Bible is translated into other languages, it loses much of its essence. The familiar King James translation uses language which is archaic and difficult for the modern reader. Furthermore, it is not rooted in Jewish sources and often goes against traditional Jewish teachings. Modern translations, while more readable, are often even more divorced from the true meaning of the text.

The key to deciphering any biblical text is to view it in context. Isaiah 53 is the fourth of the four “Servant Songs.” (The others are found in Isaiah chapters 42, 49 and 50.) Though the “servant” in Isaiah 53 is not openly identified – these verses merely refer to “My servant” (52:13, 53:11) – the “servant” in each of the previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the Jewish nation. Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant”:

The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant”; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.

One obvious question that needs to be addressed and is misunderstood by christians: How can the “Suffering Servant,” which the verses refer to grammatically in the singular, be equated with the entire Jewish nation?

This question evaporates when we discover that throughout the Bible, the Jewish people are consistently referred to as a singular entity, using the singular pronoun. For example, when God speaks to the entire Jewish nation at Mount Sinai, all of the Ten Commandments are written as if speaking to an individual (Exodus 20:1-14). This is because the Jewish people are one unit, bound together with a shared national destiny (see Exodus 4:22, Deuteronomy chapter 32). This singular reference is even more common in biblical verses referring to the Messianic era, when the Jewish people will be fully united under the banner of God (see Hosea 14:6-7, Jeremiah 50:19).

As we will see, for numerous reasons this chapter cannot be referring to the christians Jesus. Even in the Christian scriptures, the disciples did not consider the Suffering Servant as referring to Jesus (see Matthew 16:21-22, Mark 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45).

Funny how the prophesized Moshiach 'who will be called Immanuel' turned out to be some guy named Yeshua. Things that make you go hmm.

If the prophecy as taught by Jews is really about the future king Hezekiah, then he wasn't called emanuel either.

So ?

Perhaps he was just a future messianic prototype? someone who upholds the law and does what is right in God's eyes?

 

[hobelim]

you got some citation on that "jesus hung out with gentiles" thing------it's not in the NT and I do not know where else to look. Some ancient writings upon which you have stumbled?

"Thereupon the Spirit led him away into the wilderness, and there he remained for forty days tempted by Satan. He was among the wild beasts; and the angels waited on him." mark 1:13

Here it clearly shows that before Jesus began teaching he live among the gentiles, the wild beasts being figurative for the romans etc., and the wilderness being figurative for non Jewish areas that were not governed by Mosaic law.

This would explain his predilection to party with sinners and prostitutes and for keeping company with all sorts of bad characters.

SHEEEESH even my grandmother did not
refer to gentiles as "wild beasts" (unless they were Cossacks)

lol...Does this shock you, sugar lips?

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

First off the Tanakh and Christian Bible have Greek, Sumerian, Roman, and even Buddhist ( The Christian part ) influence.

Tartarus is in Greek, Roman, The Tanakh, and the New Testament and prove the influence of other cultures had over the sotries being told in the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you have Samson which is Hercules in Greek mythology and is another Greek influenced story within the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you had the Leviathan which is also in Greek Mythology and in the Tanakh and Christian Bible along with many other Myths around the world.

As I written before the Jewish God was most likely Anu ( Sumerian mythology ) and Chaos ( Greek Mythology ) the mixing of the Gods from other cultures created the one Jewish God.

Now what does this have to do with what the OP'er and the other posts in this thread?

Simple, as we discuss the words of the Tanakh or the Christian Bible we must remember those stories are mixed with mythology, and should never be taken literal even though many do.

The fact is Jesus story spans from the New Testament to the Quran and I have even read stories about him even visiting Buddhist regions in the far east and of course like poster pointed out the Book of Mormon.

Was he a Messiah?

No, and if you study the meaning of the word Jesus fails to be a Messiah.

Was he the Son of God?

We are all Children of God under the Abrahamic way of teaching, so if you look at it that way yes Jesus was the son of God.

Was Jesus himself God?

Many Christian sects proclaim he was but in reality you can not be the son of God and God at the same time, and also if he were God and after being nailed to the Cross he would have not called out to his father. Also again he spoke as God to being his father and not him as being God, so he was not God.

In the end as many Social Conservatives attempt to distort the stories in the Bible to fit their social agenda like they did when they once believed the Mark of Cain was for African Blacks the reality set in and the fact is shown they distort the stories and when discover double down on stupidity until they can no longer lie and deny.

The Bible, Tanakh, and Quran are great lessons books to learn wrong from right, but they should never be used to rule our lives with nor should they be allow to govern our government.

So as I finish this long winded rant that jump all over the place please note that I for one consider Jesus a good teacher and maybe could be consider a prophet but no means was he a Messiah, but I am sure many will disagree and proclaim everything I wrote to be of the devil and just gibberish to them.

Fin

 

[irosie91]

How is anyone healed by Israel's suffering?

Laughter is the best medicine

 

[Penelope]

Irosie that last supper nonsense was borrowed from babylon where there were twelve gods sitting at a table in walked loki and there were 13 thus one had to die because the natural order was 12 months of the year 12 signs of the zodiac as a matter of fact 13 was so hated it was expunged from many places you can still see this when you get in an elevator and the 13 th floor is missing....just another plagerism not based in any fact and the romans used it to blame judas or the jews....pretty sneaky on their part?.

You can tell many of the stories of the bible from looking at the stars. Gemini, Taurus, Aries, Pieces, Aquarius.....

As for the zodiac itself, we now have 13 signs not just 12, Serpentarius

Irosie that last supper nonsense was borrowed from babylon where there were twelve gods sitting at a table in walked loki and there were 13 thus one had to die because the natural order was 12 months of the year 12 signs of the zodiac as a matter of fact 13 was so hated it was expunged from many places you can still see this when you get in an elevator and the 13 th floor is missing....just another plagerism not based in any fact and the romans used it to blame judas or the jews....pretty sneaky on their part?.

You can tell many of the stories of the bible from looking at the stars. Gemini, Taurus, Aries, Pieces, Aquarius.....

As for the zodiac itself, we now have 13 signs not just 12, Serpentarius

Really the serpent is its own zodiac. Gee I best keep up more with things.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

SHEEEESH even my grandmother did not
refer to gentiles as "wild beasts" (unless they were Cossacks)

And the christian misuse

The original Hebrew text clearly refers to the Jewish people as the “Suffering Servant,” over the centuries Isaiah 53 has become a cornerstone of the Christian claim that Jesus is the Messiah. Unfortunately, this claim is based on widespread mistranslations and distortion of context.

In order to properly understand these verses, one must read the original Hebrew text. When the Bible is translated into other languages, it loses much of its essence. The familiar King James translation uses language which is archaic and difficult for the modern reader. Furthermore, it is not rooted in Jewish sources and often goes against traditional Jewish teachings. Modern translations, while more readable, are often even more divorced from the true meaning of the text.

The key to deciphering any biblical text is to view it in context. Isaiah 53 is the fourth of the four “Servant Songs.” (The others are found in Isaiah chapters 42, 49 and 50.) Though the “servant” in Isaiah 53 is not openly identified – these verses merely refer to “My servant” (52:13, 53:11) – the “servant” in each of the previous Servant Songs is plainly and repeatedly identified as the Jewish nation. Beginning with chapter 41, the equating of God’s Servant with the nation of Israel is made nine times by the prophet Isaiah, and no one other than Israel is identified as the “servant”:

The Bible is filled with other references to the Jewish people as God’s “servant”; see Jeremiah 30:10, 46:27-28; Psalms 136:22. There is no reason that the “servant” in Isaiah 53 would suddenly switch and refer to someone other than the Jewish people.

One obvious question that needs to be addressed and is misunderstood by christians: How can the “Suffering Servant,” which the verses refer to grammatically in the singular, be equated with the entire Jewish nation?

This question evaporates when we discover that throughout the Bible, the Jewish people are consistently referred to as a singular entity, using the singular pronoun. For example, when God speaks to the entire Jewish nation at Mount Sinai, all of the Ten Commandments are written as if speaking to an individual (Exodus 20:1-14). This is because the Jewish people are one unit, bound together with a shared national destiny (see Exodus 4:22, Deuteronomy chapter 32). This singular reference is even more common in biblical verses referring to the Messianic era, when the Jewish people will be fully united under the banner of God (see Hosea 14:6-7, Jeremiah 50:19).

As we will see, for numerous reasons this chapter cannot be referring to the christians Jesus. Even in the Christian scriptures, the disciples did not consider the Suffering Servant as referring to Jesus (see Matthew 16:21-22, Mark 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45).

Funny how the prophesized Moshiach 'who will be called Immanuel' turned out to be some guy named Yeshua. Things that make you go hmm.

If the prophecy as taught by Jews is really about the future king Hezekiah, then he wasn't called emanuel either.

So ?

Perhaps he was just a future messianic prototype? someone who upholds the law and does what is right in God's eyes?

Been literally dozens of Messianic claimants including Yeshua. But none has fulfilled the prophecies describing in greatd etail what this Messiah is to do. If a claimant doesn't fulfill any of those prophecies he isn't/wasn't the Messiah.

In Yeshua's case, he not only didn't fulfill any of the prophecies, but he drew worship away from God which is especially naughty. On that count alone his execution was justified under religious law.

Deuteronomy 13:2-6 explains very clearly what happens to false-prophets and such, they're executed.

 

[Penelope]

How is anyone healed by Israel's suffering?

Very good question, I'd like to know as well.

 

[irosie91]

How is anyone healed by Israel's suffering?

Very good question, I'd like to know as well.

Ask your priest----it's a Christian, mainly catholic, ethos

 

[hobelim]

Been literally dozens of Messianic claimants including Yeshua. But none has fulfilled the prophecies describing in greatd etail what this Messiah is to do. If a claimant doesn't fulfill any of those prophecies he isn't/wasn't the Messiah.

In Yeshua's case, he not only didn't fulfill any of the prophecies, but he drew worship away from God which is especially naughty. On that count alone his execution was justified under religious law.

Deuteronomy 13:2-6 explains very clearly what happens to false-prophets and such, they're executed.

Have you ever considered the possibility that it only seems like Jesus did not fulfill messianic expectations because the literal minded religious authorities of that time held irrational messianic expectations based on perverse superstitious and ignorant interpretations of OT prophecies?

For instance many to this day still maintain that the messiah will build a temple based on zechariahs prophecy that the Messiah will lead people to the sanctuary of God which has absolutely nothing whatever to do with the messiah leading the construction of a man made building where farm animals are slaughtered.

Jesus did not build a temple but he did lead people to the sanctuary of God by teaching the only right way to understand and conform to the divine commands that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of life and divine providence, the sanctuary of God, to all those who act on that teaching.

 

[Penelope]

First off the Tanakh and Christian Bible have Greek, Sumerian, Roman, and even Buddhist ( The Christian part ) influence.

Tartarus is in Greek, Roman, The Tanakh, and the New Testament and prove the influence of other cultures had over the sotries being told in the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you have Samson which is Hercules in Greek mythology and is another Greek influenced story within the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you had the Leviathan which is also in Greek Mythology and in the Tanakh and Christian Bible along with many other Myths around the world.

As I written before the Jewish God was most likely Anu ( Sumerian mythology ) and Chaos ( Greek Mythology ) the mixing of the Gods from other cultures created the one Jewish God.

Now what does this have to do with what the OP'er and the other posts in this thread?

Simple, as we discuss the words of the Tanakh or the Christian Bible we must remember those stories are mixed with mythology, and should never be taken literal even though many do.

The fact is Jesus story spans from the New Testament to the Quran and I have even read stories about him even visiting Buddhist regions in the far east and of course like poster pointed out the Book of Mormon.

Was he a Messiah?

No, and if you study the meaning of the word Jesus fails to be a Messiah.

Was he the Son of God?

We are all Children of God under the Abrahamic way of teaching, so if you look at it that way yes Jesus was the son of God.

Was Jesus himself God?

Many Christian sects proclaim he was but in reality you can not be the son of God and God at the same time, and also if he were God and after being nailed to the Cross he would have not called out to his father. Also again he spoke as God to being his father and not him as being God, so he was not God.

In the end as many Social Conservatives attempt to distort the stories in the Bible to fit their social agenda like they did when they once believed the Mark of Cain was for African Blacks the reality set in and the fact is shown they distort the stories and when discover double down on stupidity until they can no longer lie and deny.

The Bible, Tanakh, and Quran are great lessons books to learn wrong from right, but they should never be used to rule our lives with nor should they be allow to govern our government.

So as I finish this long winded rant that jump all over the place please note that I for one consider Jesus a good teacher and maybe could be consider a prophet but no means was he a Messiah, but I am sure many will disagree and proclaim everything I wrote to be of the devil and just gibberish to them.

Fin

How is anyone healed by Israel's suffering?

Laughter is the best medicine

I'd like to see a little more suffering on Israel's part, most be the Pals are God's chosen now.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Been literally dozens of Messianic claimants including Yeshua. But none has fulfilled the prophecies describing in greatd etail what this Messiah is to do. If a claimant doesn't fulfill any of those prophecies he isn't/wasn't the Messiah.

In Yeshua's case, he not only didn't fulfill any of the prophecies, but he drew worship away from God which is especially naughty. On that count alone his execution was justified under religious law.

Deuteronomy 13:2-6 explains very clearly what happens to false-prophets and such, they're executed.

Have you ever considered the possibility that it only seems like Jesus did not fulfill messianic expectations because the literal minded religious authorities of that time held irrational messianic expectations based on perverse superstitious and ignorant interpretations of OT prophecies?

One of the requirements was to call all the world's Jews to Israel to live under full Torah compliance. If you see that having happened then I'll ignore everything else and agree he was the Messiah.

 

[Penelope]

First off the Tanakh and Christian Bible have Greek, Sumerian, Roman, and even Buddhist ( The Christian part ) influence.

Tartarus is in Greek, Roman, The Tanakh, and the New Testament and prove the influence of other cultures had over the sotries being told in the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you have Samson which is Hercules in Greek mythology and is another Greek influenced story within the Tanakh and Christian Bible.

Then you had the Leviathan which is also in Greek Mythology and in the Tanakh and Christian Bible along with many other Myths around the world.

As I written before the Jewish God was most likely Anu ( Sumerian mythology ) and Chaos ( Greek Mythology ) the mixing of the Gods from other cultures created the one Jewish God.

Now what does this have to do with what the OP'er and the other posts in this thread?

Simple, as we discuss the words of the Tanakh or the Christian Bible we must remember those stories are mixed with mythology, and should never be taken literal even though many do.

The fact is Jesus story spans from the New Testament to the Quran and I have even read stories about him even visiting Buddhist regions in the far east and of course like poster pointed out the Book of Mormon.

Was he a Messiah?

No, and if you study the meaning of the word Jesus fails to be a Messiah.

Was he the Son of God?

We are all Children of God under the Abrahamic way of teaching, so if you look at it that way yes Jesus was the son of God.

Was Jesus himself God?

Many Christian sects proclaim he was but in reality you can not be the son of God and God at the same time, and also if he were God and after being nailed to the Cross he would have not called out to his father. Also again he spoke as God to being his father and not him as being God, so he was not God.

In the end as many Social Conservatives attempt to distort the stories in the Bible to fit their social agenda like they did when they once believed the Mark of Cain was for African Blacks the reality set in and the fact is shown they distort the stories and when discover double down on stupidity until they can no longer lie and deny.

The Bible, Tanakh, and Quran are great lessons books to learn wrong from right, but they should never be used to rule our lives with nor should they be allow to govern our government.

So as I finish this long winded rant that jump all over the place please note that I for one consider Jesus a good teacher and maybe could be consider a prophet but no means was he a Messiah, but I am sure many will disagree and proclaim everything I wrote to be of the devil and just gibberish to them.

Fin

Jesus is the Son of God , not a son of God.