Is Trump a demagogue? And what is a demagogue, anyway?

[EvilCat Breath]

My posts are for thoughtful people, who are not plagued by attention deficit disorder.

Just ignore the post if it exceeds the boundaries of your attention span, and/or intellectual capacity.

Oh no. Read them for the amusement factor.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Please provide a link, as I do not take the word of forum members, in general.

Obama sampling of fear mongering:

Kudlow: Obama’s reckless default fear-mongering

I have a strong suspicion that Obama is trying to provoke a massive selloff in stocks and bonds to further his political position. It could also drive the economy into recession.

www.cnbc.com

Trump exact quote on Mexicans coming to US:

What Donald Trump Has Said About Mexico and Vice Versa

Trump is making a surprise visit to Mexico today.

abcnews.go.com

Trump banned travel from 7 countries where Intelligence said these regions represented threats to U.S. North Korea and Venezuela are on the list. Are they Muslim? Is Saudi, United Arab Emirates, Dubai, Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Nigeria, Egypt, and Turkey on the list?

Why these 7 countries are listed on Trump's travel ban

On Tuesday, the Supreme court upheld the Trump administration’s travel ban 5-4, affirming the president’s power over matters of national security.

www.politico.com

 

[Rumpole]

Obama sampling of fear mongering:

This is the the quote you are calling 'fear mongering"

As reckless as a government shutdown is ... an economic shutdown that results from default would be dramatically worse," Obama said Thursday. Clearly targeting Republicans, he said a default would be "the height of irresponsibility."

That is not fear mongering. If Republicans threaten to shut down the government by refusing to pay the governments bills, noting that the debt ceiling is for money spent, not for future spending, then those statements are criticism, legitimate criticism.

Trump exact quote on Mexicans coming to US:

What Donald Trump Has Said About Mexico and Vice Versa

Trump is making a surprise visit to Mexico today.

abcnews.go.com

Trump banned travel from 7 countries where Intelligence said these regions represented threats to U.S. North Korea and Venezuela are on the list. Are they Muslim? Is Saudi, United Arab Emirates, Dubai, Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Nigeria, Egypt, and Turkey on the list?

Why these 7 countries are listed on Trump's travel ban

On Tuesday, the Supreme court upheld the Trump administration’s travel ban 5-4, affirming the president’s power over matters of national security.

www.politico.com

Yes, I'm familiar with the Trump quotes, and they garnered criticism, the bulk of them with which I agree.

 

[Rumpole]

Oh no. Read them for the amusement factor.

I'm here to debate. If you aren't, let me know.

 

[LeftofLeft]

This is the the quote you are calling 'fear mongering"

As reckless as a government shutdown is ... an economic shutdown that results from default would be dramatically worse," Obama said Thursday. Clearly targeting Republicans, he said a default would be "the height of irresponsibility."

That is not fear mongering. If Republicans threaten to shut down the government by refusing to pay the governments bills, noting that the debt ceiling is for money spent, not for future spending, then those statements are criticism, legitimate criticism.



Yes, I'm familiar with the Trump quotes, and they garnered criticism, the bulk of them with which I agree.

Whether a government shutdown is led by Republicans or Democrats, it has an economic impact but not an economic shutdown. That is fearmongering on the part of Obama. Or, when Obama was trying to get a debt ceiling, he raised fear among social security and veterans that no payments would go out. That is fearmongering.

Barack Obama said Social Security and other federal checks may not go out on Aug. 3 if the debt ceiling is not increased

President Barack Obama and Congress are in intense discussions on raising the debt ceiling -- the legal limit on how muc

www.politifact.com

Regarding Trump on his comments on Mexican immigrants and restricting travel from 7 countries due to security concerns, these actions like all Presidential actions are subject to criticism. But to accuse Trump of calling all Mexicans rapists and criminals or calling his travel ban a ban on all Muslims coming into the US, these are outright falsehoods manufactured and spread by his critics.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

You haven't been paying attention for about the last six months john.

No argument from me on that john. I'm all in for Trump, no matter the consequences for your country.

It's just that I think the deep state will have to eliminate him if he tries to interfere with the war against Russia.

In fact, it looks like the message has already been delivered to Trump! Did anyone notice that he started to take credit for Nord Stream bombing and then had to cut it short?
He was obviously about to take the credit away from Biden. Seriously john, check it out from his speech yesterday.

Good for you Don, if only others would wake up too.

I don't watch any of the speeches or other Kabuki Theatre because it's all a puppet show until they fix our election systems here. DT has absolutely ZERO chance to win if it isn't fixed or he doesn't stealth sell out to the NWO puppeteers behind the scenes because the entire system is captured by the UNiparty.

DT is a typical NY loud & abrasive personality that pumps himself up like a peacock -everything is the best/greatest/biggest ever.
It grates on my nerves, I don't like braggadocio, but the guy had mostly really good policies no matter what MSM/Pravda said/lied about.
But if he was actually going to claim credit for an illegal act of war against our sworn ally by blowing up the pipeline, that would be even dumber than other stuff he has said.
No matter who did, they it should face war crimes.

 

[Rumpole]

Whether a government shutdown is led by Republicans or Democrats, it has an economic impact but not an economic shutdown. That is fearmongering on the part of Obama. Or, when Obama was trying to get a debt ceiling, he raised fear among social security and veterans that no payments would go out. That is fearmongering.

Barack Obama said Social Security and other federal checks may not go out on Aug. 3 if the debt ceiling is not increased

President Barack Obama and Congress are in intense discussions on raising the debt ceiling -- the legal limit on how muc

www.politifact.com

Your link assesses the relative veracity of Obama's assertions, it does not speak to whether it is 'fear mongering', and other aspects of demagoguery, which IS the subject under discussion.

Alas, it's not fear mongering because if that were true, then all criticism is fear mongering, which is absurd. The relative economic impact of any action does not constitution fear mongering. Fear mongering is the method of the demagogue, and there is nothing demagogic about Obama. I find it amazing that you are unable to discern the difference between Obama and Trump.

Regarding Trump on his comments on Mexican immigrants and restricting travel from 7 countries due to security concerns, these actions like all Presidential actions are subject to criticism.

Of course, and criticism, per se, is not demagoguery.

But to accuse Trump of calling all Mexicans rapists and criminals or calling his travel ban a ban on all Muslims coming into the US, these are outright falsehoods manufactured and spread by his critics.

The veracity of a statement has nothing to do with demagoguery. Any anecdotal example revealing a misstatement of fact, alone, is not evidence of anything beyond just being human, unless, of course, it rises to the level of being lies, delivered in a volume comparable to how a firehose delivers water, which, I argue, is the case for Trump.

When Trump said 'and some, are good people', insofar as a point of grammar/syntax, it impugns the character of most Mexicans, It is saying most Mexicans are rapists, criminals, drug dealers, etc., and only 'some' are good people. Now, given that Trump's ability to articulate is substandard, if we were to give him the benefit of the doubt, therefore, we would assert that he probably didn't mean to say most Mexicans were rapists, criminals, etc.

But, should we afford persons occupying the most powerful office on Earth, that courtesy? I say no.

The problem with giving Trump the benefit of the doubt is that he is President of the United States, and as President, one should not be making beyond-the-pale egregious and sophomoric (not to mention highly irresponsible) errors in speech as this, especially not with the sheer volume that Trump does it. In fact, overall, Trump's inability to articulate with precision, though most persons, including Presidents, do make grammatical mistakes, do misstate facts on occasion, get facts wrong, on occasion, Trump's ability to articulate with precision is so substandard that, among the various aspects of Trump's character which declare him unfit for the office, that is one of the more salient defects in the man. The world listens attentively to the words of a US President, literally millions hang on to his every word, and misunderstandings could conceivably affect markets, and if egregious enough, misunderstandings could lead to war. This is not even to address the sheer level of irresponsibility, his tendency to incite rage, of many of Trump's speeches. AS for inciting rage in people, which he does, as january 6 has proven, he does in spaces. He even admits it:



In general, the term "demagogue" is usually applied to politicians who use populist rhetoric to win support from the masses, often by appealing to their fears and prejudices. History is replete with examples of such men, though appealing at first, eventually wind up destroying the country. I ask: Why plant such a seed? Doesn't mean that it would come to such an outcome, but Trump is that seed, the seed of the poisoned tree, and like all poisoned trees, they can yield only poisoned fruit.

 

[Rumpole]

Good for you Don, if only others would wake up too.

I don't watch any of the speeches or other Kabuki Theatre because it's all a puppet show until they fix our election systems here. DT has absolutely ZERO chance to win if it isn't fixed or he doesn't stealth sell out to the NWO puppeteers behind the scenes because the entire system is captured by the UNiparty.

DT is a typical NY loud & abrasive personality that pumps himself up like a peacock -everything is the best/greatest/biggest ever.
It grates on my nerves, I don't like braggadocio, but the guy had mostly really good policies no matter what MSM/Pravda said/lied about.
But if he was actually going to claim credit for an illegal act of war against our sworn ally by blowing up the pipeline, that would be even dumber than other stuff he has said.
No matter who did, they it should face war crimes.

Having good policies cannot compensate for the potential damage to a country a demagogue can do. That is a seed, the seed of a poisoned tree, is a seed one should never plant.

 

[Rumpole]

Mankind has not figured out how to organize government so the politicians are advantaged by using whatever campaign technique would appeal to the peasants' rational analysis of social order.

Don't go thinking Joe Biden is a rational candidate for the presidency.

If the choice is between Biden and Trump, then Biden is the only choice.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

Having good policies cannot compensate for the potential damage to a country a demagogue can do. That is a seed, the seed of a poisoned tree, is a seed one should never plant.

I agree. Obama, Bush & Biden can also be classified demagogues.
Did you stand against Obama's abuses?
How about pedo Joe's ongoing crimes & fear mongering?

HRC played on fears for power as well.

Hillary Clinton calls half of Trump supporters bigoted 'deplorables'

Democrat tells New York fundraiser some Trump backers ‘are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America’

www.theguardian.com

When you come out & condemn them all, then I'll take you seriously

 

[RhodyPatriot]

My posts are for thoughtful people

Nope, quite the opposite.

Your posts are for brainwashed corporate media victims who have had "THE MESSAGE" drilled into their brain so many times by the mass psyops that you've turned into unquestioning sheep with no capacity for critical thought.

Carry on.

 

[Rumpole]

Wow Don, never thought you'd admit DT is better at anything. That's a first step.

Now maybe look at the real facts & numbers & you'll come to the rational conclusion he's also much better on:
Economy

The stock market, which is largely based on (investor) human perception, emotion and reaction, therefore, is not a good indicator of economic performance. Unless, of course, there is a crash that leads to a depression. Short of that, Jobs and GDP are better indicators, and on that score, Biden beats Trump

Joe Biden vs Donald Trump Stock Market, GDP, and Jobs Created

Compare Joe Biden and Donald Trump to see how they stack up on stock market performance, jobs and GDP growth

www.factsarefirst.com

Income equality

Wealth inequality between the masses and the rich is, by far, a more important data point, of which has been eroding, steadily since the advent of neoliberalism by Reagan, furthered by most US Presidents (more so by Republican presidents) less so by Obama, and even less by Biden. It would take more than one term by any president, to turn the ship of neoliberalism and the damaging impact of wealth inequality it has caused, around.

Real wage growth

The pandemic, and the chaos it caused, distorted wage growth figures, and one cannot hold responsible for what was beyond the control of any country's leader (other than their management of the pandemic, for which Trump is a borderline criminal).

Domestic energy policies

This, of course, depends on one's point of view.

Fuel prices

Distorted by the war in Ukraine, which is a fact beyond the control of any US President.

Foreign policy

There are several criticisms of Trump's foreign policy that are frequently raised:

1. Diplomacy and international cooperation: Critics argue that Trump's foreign policy was characterized by a lack of diplomacy and a rejection of international cooperation. He withdrew the United States from several international agreements, including the Paris climate accord and the Iran nuclear deal, and criticized and insulted traditional allies, which damaged the country's reputation and weakened its ability to cooperate with other nations.
2. Unpredictability and inconsistency: Trump's foreign policy was often characterized by unpredictability and inconsistency. He frequently changed his positions on issues, such as North Korea, and often communicated his policy objectives through social media, which made it difficult for other countries to understand and respond to his actions.
3. Trade policies: Trump's protectionist trade policies were criticized for damaging global trade and undermining the United States' relationships with key trading partners. The trade war with China, for example, hurt U.S. farmers and manufacturers, and led to retaliatory tariffs on American goods. And yes, I am aware that The Biden administration has kept most of the Trump administration tariffs in place, except for a five-year suspension of tariffs that were part of a WTO aircraft dispute and replacement of certain steel and aluminum tariffs with tariff rate quotas. I would argue that Biden wouldn't have continued with the idea if Trump hadn't pursued the policy. As a liberal/libertarian, the libertarian side of me disagrees with tariffs, but that is more to the point of tariffs on raw materials which affects everything else. In some instances, retail prices in certain industries might work to US advantage, but such polices has to be carefully examined for circumstances, forecasts, and possible consequences.
4. Human rights: Critics argue that Trump's foreign policy often ignored or even encouraged human rights abuses, including his support for authoritarian leaders such as North Korea's Kim Jong Un and Russia's Vladimir Putin.
5. Approach to conflicts: Trump was criticized for his approach to conflicts, such as his decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, which was seen as abandoning Kurdish allies and creating instability in the region. He was also criticized for his handling of the COVID-19 pandemic, including his decision to withdraw from the World Health Organization and his refusal to cooperate with other countries in the development and distribution of vaccines.

Peace deals

Never one to miss opportunities for hyperbole, Trump's so-called 'peace agreements' were not peace agreements, they were cooperation or 'normalization' agreements amongst nations that were not at war. Trump is notorious for going after low hanging fruit, and hyping it as 'great achievements' historical' blah blah blah, ad nauseum. Real peace agreements are made between warring nations, such as the peace agreement achieved by Carter, between Sadat (Egypt), Begin (Israel) Arafat (PLO) and the Oslo accords facilitated by Bill Clinton and are far more difficult to achieve. Trump, in point of fact, has not negotiated one peace accord.

Inflation

Both Trump's $2 Trillion stimulus and Biden's $2 trillion stimulus packages were necessary to thwart the epic decline in the economy because of world enacted lockdowns to prevent the spread of Covid, not to mention the disruptions in supply chains, which we are oly now beginning to recover from. This was unavoidable and necessary. No one could predict what size of the package would be needed, so, in my view, both administrations decided that more than enough was better than not enough. Given that this forced the Federal Reserve to resort to 'quantitative easing' in order to finance the packages, inflation was inevitable. Therefore, inflation is the price the world is paying for the prevention of what would have been a massive deflation and world depression. Be thankful that inflation is the price, and not the outcome that might have occured but for the stimulus packages. Inflation, therefore is not only bipartisan it is bi-world, most of the major economies of the world participated in stimulus packages in their respective countries, and inflation was/is a world wide phenomenon. What republicans need to start doing, is be honest.

Trade deals

I suppose it's debatable, but Trump's pulling out of the TTP, an agreement that was years in the making, was one of greatest failures of Trump's trade policies, to wit:

President Trump's decision to withdraw the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement had a significant impact on America's ability to conduct trade in the Pacific region. The TPP was a comprehensive trade agreement between 12 Pacific Rim countries, including the United States, Japan, Australia, and Canada. The agreement aimed to reduce trade barriers and promote economic integration among its member countries.

By pulling out of the TPP, the United States lost an opportunity to strengthen its economic ties with countries in the Pacific region. The agreement would have lowered tariffs on U.S. goods and services in member countries, making them more competitive in those markets. It also would have established common standards for labor, environmental protection, and intellectual property rights, which would have given U.S. businesses a level playing field in the region.

Furthermore, by withdrawing from the TPP, the United States ceded economic leadership in the Pacific region to China, which has been pursuing its own trade agreement, the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), with other countries in the region. The vacuum that pulling out of the TTP, it has potentially allowed China to expand its influence, fill the vacuum, in the region and gain preferential access to key markets, such as Japan and Australia.

Overall, the United States' withdrawal from the TPP has weakened its ability to shape economic policy in the Pacific region and compete effectively with China.

Rising standards of living for minorities/women

When comparing statistics, make sure you include that of several presidents before Trump, and Biden, afterwards.

Lower taxes

Democrats are for lowered taxes on the middle class. The purchasing power of the middle class is the engine of job growth. But the super rich do not need it, and giving the super rich tax breaks only contributes to the deficit noting that there is no evidence, in the long run, that giving the super rich more, i.e., 'trickle down economics' improves the economy. Thus, there is no clear evidence that giving tax cuts to the super-rich, the upper 1% and beyond, leads to significant improvements in the economy.

Advocates of tax cuts for the wealthy argue that such policies will stimulate economic growth by encouraging investment and job creation. However, many economists dispute this claim, citing research that shows that tax cuts for the wealthy are not particularly effective at stimulating economic growth and job creation.

For example, a study by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service found that changes in top tax rates have little or no correlation with economic growth. Additionally, a 2014 report by the Congressional Budget Office found that the most effective way to stimulate economic growth is through policies that support low- and middle-income households, such as direct spending on infrastructure and education.

Furthermore, tax cuts for the wealthy can exacerbate income inequality, which can ultimately harm the economy. When wealth and income are concentrated at the top, it can reduce consumer spending and slow economic growth. In contrast, policies that promote greater economic equality, such as progressive taxation and investments in education and infrastructure, can help to create a more robust and sustainable economy. The recent anecdotal reports which the right is using to 'prove' that tax cuts for the rich better the economy, are, indeed, anecdotal, nad do not refute the forty years evidence that 'trickle down economics' works. In fact, it's a myth. The 40-year con of trickle-down Reaganomics: Why Republican's toxic class warfare only spreads poverty | Milwaukee Independent

Overall, the economic benefits of tax cuts for the super-rich are uncertain, and there is evidence to suggest that such policies may actually be detrimental to the economy in the long run.

Mandates

For what? a dress code to help prevent the spread of disease? This is the hill you want your parade to crash on? FYI, 'mandates' give a choice, and, as such, do not equal 'force'. Personally, I do not support vaccine mandates. Persuasion, not coercion, is the best approach for a nation.

Inspiring loyalty

Inspiring loyalty to the man over the rule of law is what demagogues do, it's called 'cult of personality'.

Leading the world

Hyperbole, he was criticized by our allies, and prefered by Putin and other demagogues.

During his presidency, Donald Trump faced criticism from some of the United States' closest allies. Here are a few examples:

1. Canada: Trump had a contentious relationship with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, particularly regarding trade policy. The two leaders clashed over NAFTA renegotiations and Trump's imposition of tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum.
2. European Union: Trump's criticism of the EU and his skepticism of the NATO alliance strained relations between the United States and many European countries. Leaders of EU countries, including Germany, France, and the UK, publicly criticized Trump for his policies and rhetoric.
3. Mexico: Trump's proposal to build a wall along the US-Mexico border and his characterization of Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists strained relations between the United States and Mexico. Mexican leaders criticized Trump's policies and rhetoric and refused to pay for the wall.
4. Australia: Trump's contentious phone call with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull shortly after taking office raised concerns about the future of the US-Australia alliance. The call reportedly ended abruptly after Trump criticized a refugee resettlement agreement between the two countries.
5. Japan: Trump's criticism of Japan's trade policies and his decision to withdraw the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement strained relations between the two countries. Japanese officials expressed disappointment with Trump's decision and sought to salvage the agreement without the United States.

It is worth noting that while Trump faced criticism from some of the United States' closest allies, he also had close relationships with some foreign leaders, including Putin, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. prime minister of Hungaria Victor Orbán, Duterte (Philippines), and Bolsonaro (Brazil, but voted out of office) Netanyahu is revealing his corruption of late, MBS is a brutal murderer, Oban, Bolsonaro, and Duterte are demagogues.

Protecting American interests

Hyperbole.

Everything else but twitters

Trump's twitter fingers are one of the sources of his clown reputation.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I'm here to debate. If you aren't, let me know.

You are here to proselytize. I'm here to laugh at you.

 

[Rumpole]

Nope, quite the opposite.

Your posts are for brainwashed corporate media victims who have had "THE MESSAGE" drilled into their brain so many times by the mass psyops that you've turned into unquestioning sheep with no capacity for critical thought.

Carry on.

Well, that's rich, given that the Dominion lawsuits proves that Fox is the leading promulgators of the Big Lie, and currying favor batshit crazies on team Trump, thus Fox is the leading propaganda arm of the GOP and Trump's presidency, putting MSNBC and CNN to shame insofar as their catering to their prospective audiences. Ironically, Fox, once a promoter of Trump, has turned on him.

 

[Rumpole]

You are here to proselytize. I'm here to laugh at you.

What I post I intentionally subject to, and invite, challenge, and of course its' going to be from my point of view, not yours, which you are conflating with 'proselytizing'. Even if it is that, it's being offered for challenge and debate, and that should be a good thing.

Later.

 

[Winco]

Wow Don, never thought you'd admit DT is better at anything. That's a first step.

Now maybe look at the real facts & numbers & you'll come to the rational conclusion he's also much better on:
Economy
Income equality
Real wage growth
Domestic energy policies
Fuel prices
Foreign policy
Peace deals
Inflation
Trade deals
Rising standards of living for minorities/women
Lower taxes
Mandates
Inspiring loyalty
Leading the world
Protecting American interests
Everything else but twitters

Trump's Final Numbers - FactCheck.org

Statistical indicators of President Trump's four years in office.

www.factcheck.org

 

[johngaltshrugged]

The stock market, which is largely based on (investor) human perception, emotion and reaction, therefore, is not a good indicator of economic performance. Unless, of course, there is a crash that leads to a depression. Short of that, Jobs and GDP are better indicators, and on that score, Biden beats Trump

Joe Biden vs Donald Trump Stock Market, GDP, and Jobs Created

Compare Joe Biden and Donald Trump to see how they stack up on stock market performance, jobs and GDP growth

www.factsarefirst.com

Wealth inequality between the masses and the rich is, by far, a more important data point, of which has been eroding, steadily since the advent of neoliberalism by Reagan, furthered by most US Presidents (more so by Republican presidents) less so by Obama, and even less by Biden. It would take more than one term by any president, to turn the ship of neoliberalism and the damaging impact of wealth inequality it has caused, around.

The pandemic, and the chaos it caused, distorted wage growth figures, and one cannot hold responsible for what was beyond the control of any country's leader (other than their management of the pandemic, for which Trump is a borderline criminal).

This, of course, depends on one's point of view.

Distorted by the war in Ukraine, which is a fact beyond the control of any US President.

There are several criticisms of Trump's foreign policy that are frequently raised:

1. Diplomacy and international cooperation: Critics argue that Trump's foreign policy was characterized by a lack of diplomacy and a rejection of international cooperation. He withdrew the United States from several international agreements, including the Paris climate accord and the Iran nuclear deal, and criticized and insulted traditional allies, which damaged the country's reputation and weakened its ability to cooperate with other nations.
2. Unpredictability and inconsistency: Trump's foreign policy was often characterized by unpredictability and inconsistency. He frequently changed his positions on issues, such as North Korea, and often communicated his policy objectives through social media, which made it difficult for other countries to understand and respond to his actions.
3. Trade policies: Trump's protectionist trade policies were criticized for damaging global trade and undermining the United States' relationships with key trading partners. The trade war with China, for example, hurt U.S. farmers and manufacturers, and led to retaliatory tariffs on American goods. And yes, I am aware that The Biden administration has kept most of the Trump administration tariffs in place, except for a five-year suspension of tariffs that were part of a WTO aircraft dispute and replacement of certain steel and aluminum tariffs with tariff rate quotas. I would argue that Biden wouldn't have continued with the idea if Trump hadn't pursued the policy. As a liberal/libertarian, the libertarian side of me disagrees with tariffs, but that is more to the point of tariffs on raw materials which affects everything else. In some instances, retail prices in certain industries might work to US advantage, but such polices has to be carefully examined for circumstances, forecasts, and possible consequences.
4. Human rights: Critics argue that Trump's foreign policy often ignored or even encouraged human rights abuses, including his support for authoritarian leaders such as North Korea's Kim Jong Un and Russia's Vladimir Putin.
5. Approach to conflicts: Trump was criticized for his approach to conflicts, such as his decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, which was seen as abandoning Kurdish allies and creating instability in the region. He was also criticized for his handling of the COVID-19 pandemic, including his decision to withdraw from the World Health Organization and his refusal to cooperate with other countries in the development and distribution of vaccines.

Never one to miss opportunities for hyperbole, Trump's so-called 'peace agreements' were not peace agreements, they were cooperation or 'normalization' agreements amongst nations that were not at war. Trump is notorious for going after low hanging fruit, and hyping it as 'great achievements' historical' blah blah blah, ad nauseum. Real peace agreements are made between warring nations, such as the peace agreement achieved by Carter, between Sadat (Egypt), Begin (Israel) Arafat (PLO) and the Oslo accords facilitated by Bill Clinton and are far more difficult to achieve. Trump, in point of fact, has not negotiated one peace accord.

Both Trump's $2 Trillion stimulus and Biden's $2 trillion stimulus packages were necessary to thwart the epic decline in the economy because of world enacted lockdowns to prevent the spread of Covid, not to mention the disruptions in supply chains, which we are oly now beginning to recover from. This was unavoidable and necessary. No one could predict what size of the package would be needed, so, in my view, both administrations decided that more than enough was better than not enough. Given that this forced the Federal Reserve to resort to 'quantitative easing' in order to finance the packages, inflation was inevitable. Therefore, inflation is the price the world is paying for the prevention of what would have been a massive deflation and world depression. Be thankful that inflation is the price, and not the outcome that might have occured but for the stimulus packages. Inflation, therefore is not only bipartisan it is bi-world, most of the major economies of the world participated in stimulus packages in their respective countries, and inflation was/is a world wide phenomenon. What republicans need to start doing, is be honest.

I suppose it's debatable, but Trump's pulling out of the TTP, an agreement that was years in the making, was one of greatest failures of Trump's trade policies, to wit:

President Trump's decision to withdraw the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement had a significant impact on America's ability to conduct trade in the Pacific region. The TPP was a comprehensive trade agreement between 12 Pacific Rim countries, including the United States, Japan, Australia, and Canada. The agreement aimed to reduce trade barriers and promote economic integration among its member countries.

By pulling out of the TPP, the United States lost an opportunity to strengthen its economic ties with countries in the Pacific region. The agreement would have lowered tariffs on U.S. goods and services in member countries, making them more competitive in those markets. It also would have established common standards for labor, environmental protection, and intellectual property rights, which would have given U.S. businesses a level playing field in the region.

Furthermore, by withdrawing from the TPP, the United States ceded economic leadership in the Pacific region to China, which has been pursuing its own trade agreement, the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), with other countries in the region. The vacuum that pulling out of the TTP, it has potentially allowed China to expand its influence, fill the vacuum, in the region and gain preferential access to key markets, such as Japan and Australia.

Overall, the United States' withdrawal from the TPP has weakened its ability to shape economic policy in the Pacific region and compete effectively with China.

When comparing statistics, make sure you include that of several presidents before Trump, and Biden, afterwards.

Democrats are for lowered taxes on the middle class. The purchasing power of the middle class is the engine of job growth. But the super rich do not need it, and giving the super rich tax breaks only contributes to the deficit noting that there is no evidence, in the long run, that giving the super rich more, i.e., 'trickle down economics' improves the economy. Thus, there is no clear evidence that giving tax cuts to the super-rich, the upper 1% and beyond, leads to significant improvements in the economy.

Advocates of tax cuts for the wealthy argue that such policies will stimulate economic growth by encouraging investment and job creation. However, many economists dispute this claim, citing research that shows that tax cuts for the wealthy are not particularly effective at stimulating economic growth and job creation.

For example, a study by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service found that changes in top tax rates have little or no correlation with economic growth. Additionally, a 2014 report by the Congressional Budget Office found that the most effective way to stimulate economic growth is through policies that support low- and middle-income households, such as direct spending on infrastructure and education.

Furthermore, tax cuts for the wealthy can exacerbate income inequality, which can ultimately harm the economy. When wealth and income are concentrated at the top, it can reduce consumer spending and slow economic growth. In contrast, policies that promote greater economic equality, such as progressive taxation and investments in education and infrastructure, can help to create a more robust and sustainable economy. The recent anecdotal reports which the right is using to 'prove' that tax cuts for the rich better the economy, are, indeed, anecdotal, nad do not refute the forty years evidence that 'trickle down economics' works. In fact, it's a myth. The 40-year con of trickle-down Reaganomics: Why Republican's toxic class warfare only spreads poverty | Milwaukee Independent

Overall, the economic benefits of tax cuts for the super-rich are uncertain, and there is evidence to suggest that such policies may actually be detrimental to the economy in the long run.

For what? a dress code to help prevent the spread of disease? This is the hill you want your parade to crash on? FYI, 'mandates' give a choice, and, as such, do not equal 'force'. Personally, I do not support vaccine mandates. Persuasion, not coercion, is the best approach for a nation.

Inspiring loyalty to the man over the rule of law is what demagogues do, it's called 'cult of personality'.

Hyperbole, he was criticized by our allies, and prefered by Putin and other demagogues.

During his presidency, Donald Trump faced criticism from some of the United States' closest allies. Here are a few examples:

1. Canada: Trump had a contentious relationship with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, particularly regarding trade policy. The two leaders clashed over NAFTA renegotiations and Trump's imposition of tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum.
2. European Union: Trump's criticism of the EU and his skepticism of the NATO alliance strained relations between the United States and many European countries. Leaders of EU countries, including Germany, France, and the UK, publicly criticized Trump for his policies and rhetoric.
3. Mexico: Trump's proposal to build a wall along the US-Mexico border and his characterization of Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists strained relations between the United States and Mexico. Mexican leaders criticized Trump's policies and rhetoric and refused to pay for the wall.
4. Australia: Trump's contentious phone call with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull shortly after taking office raised concerns about the future of the US-Australia alliance. The call reportedly ended abruptly after Trump criticized a refugee resettlement agreement between the two countries.
5. Japan: Trump's criticism of Japan's trade policies and his decision to withdraw the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade agreement strained relations between the two countries. Japanese officials expressed disappointment with Trump's decision and sought to salvage the agreement without the United States.

It is worth noting that while Trump faced criticism from some of the United States' closest allies, he also had close relationships with some foreign leaders, including Putin, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. prime minister of Hungaria Victor Orbán, Duterte (Philippines), and Bolsonaro (Brazil, but voted out of office) Netanyahu is revealing his corruption of late, MBS is a brutal murderer, Oban, Bolsonaro, and Duterte are demagogues.


Hyperbole.


Trump's twitter fingers are one of the sources of his clown reputation.

Thanks for the extremely long gaslight of facts.
I didn't read it.

Write another long post on why I should listen to you delusional progbots & your circular logic so I can ignore that too.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Well, that's rich, given that the Dominion lawsuits proves that Fox is the leading promulgators of the Big Lie, and currying favor batshit crazies on team Trump, thus Fox is the leading propaganda arm of the GOP and Trump's presidency, putting MSNBC and CNN to shame insofar as their catering to their prospective audiences. Ironically, Fox, once a promoter of Trump, has turned on him.

It's like I'm listening to CNN, but with curse words.

 

[Rumpole]

Thanks for the extremely long gaslight of facts.

I suggest you look up the word 'gaslight'.

I didn't read it.

But of course, I don't expect those with short attention spans and attention deficits to read it.
Naturally, you cannot refute my comments, because of one simple point:
They are facts! yes, facts are debatable, and I invite challenges. Oh sure, there might be a few opinions, but I'm willing to substantiate any point, on request. And if something is a mere opinion, will I'm perfectly willing to admit it.

Write another long post on why I should listen to you delusional progbots & your circular logic so I can ignore that too.

Well, you shouldn't, if you cannot grasp that to be well read, learn about politics and issues, it requires a lot of reading
You shouldn't if you want to maintain a closed mind, not open to points of view and concepts with which you might not agree.
You shouldn't, if your only purpose to make noise in the right wing echo chamber.
You shouldn't, if you just want to trade juvenile insults and score points with your like minded friends.
You shouldn't , if you are not serious about debating politics.
You shouldn't, if your only purpose is for amusement.

As for circular logic, that's an accusation, feel free to demonstrate and substantiate it's veracity, but I strongly suspect, not only will you not do that, you can't do that, because it's a vacuous claim, and vacuous claims cannot be substantiated. Oh, you can try, but they are easily refuted, squashed, demolished, etc

Right?

Of course I'm fight. But I welcome any attempt to prove me wrong.

See, just in case I am wrong, I do want to know, I do want to be on the right side of history. That being said, getting a fact or two wrong doesn't necessarily prove one is on the wrong, (or right) side of history. But, on the subject of Donald Trump, I believe I am right. He is on the wrong side of history, and therefore, his followers are, as well. Of course, assessing qualities of human beings is arguably subjective, but I believe that I draw my opinions from things he's done, things he's said. I will say this about Trump, he's the greatest conman to have ever lived.

Anyone who can persuade over 65 million people the epic lie of the century, that a doddering 78 year old dementia riddled fart stole an election, (which is two lies in one), is a master of that peculiar art. So, he's a genius on the art of projection and mind manipulation, that's a great talent, for a demagogue. Anyone who goes around, day after day after day, for over 2 years now, and claims the election was stolen, probably is the one who is trying to steal the election. Evidence of that fact is in the 800 page report by the 1/6 committee, and the thousands of documents, texts, interviews, testimonies (mostly from Republicans), etc.

So far, I believe that I am correct on a number of things (I admit I'm not an expert on fire arms, in my threads on that subject, I try to learn as i go, and willing to be stand corrected when the facts prove it, and that goes for any data point. I believe Trump supporters have been bamboozled by a demagogue, who is a master of that peculiar art, of which W.C. Fields would have been proud, who, has been said to have once uttered, humorously (but poignantly) restating a quote by Lincoln:

You can't fool all of the people all of the time, but you can fool some of the some of the time, and........................

It's just enough to make a good living!