Is this true? If so, why?

[Foxfyre]

Onus is on you to prove that Head Start and funding for public education was ineffective before you started harming the futures of innocent children. Furthermore the onus was on you to ensure that they would still be able to obtain an equivalent or better education before you threw them under the bus.

Well, I generally am no fan of Unkotare's take on a number of subjects, but I will respectfully protest here as I do not see that he threw anybody under anything. He is offering a very defensible reasoned argument suggesting that which has no proven track record of benefit or success should not continue to receive public funding.

There is no proof available that Head Start is living up to its advertising. Even some, maybe many of those who promote and support the program admit it is usually little more than a different kind of child care service for low income families.

A good pro and con argument for Head Start can be found here:
Pros and Cons of Public Preschool: The Debate | PublicSchoolReview.com

Elsewhere I recently read, though I can't immediately lay my hands on the link, a comprehensive study showing that First Graders who had Head Start do usually have a leg up on their classmates in some areas. But by Third Grade, that advantage has evaporated and there is no difference noted between those that had Head Start and those that did not.

And anecdotally, I refer back to my early education in a time that such things as kindergarten and preschool did not exist. For me and essentially all my peers, our first day in First Grade was our first day in any kind of classroom or formal learning experience. But we all received a Class A education that allowed us to compete with anybody. And I am going to guess that 90% of us went on to get at least some college and we have a very high number of college graduates.

The title and advertising on many government programs, no matter how high minded and noble they might look, simply do not deliver on giving us our our money's worth.

In my opinion the government would utilize its limited resources much more effectively and altruistically by focusing on re-establishing the nuclear family, preferably two-parent homes, and promoting that as the national norm. That and getting itself out of the education business altogether would do wonders for the education of our children.

The benefits of Head Start were working exactly as intended according to the links you provided. Prior to HS underprivileged children were lagging behind their peers in those initial grades and never subsequently catching up. The HS program was intended to ensure that would not happen and it worked. Or at least it was working until the budget was slashed and now children who would have benefited are being denied the program because there is insufficient funding.

As far as the government getting out of school funding that is already happening nationwide. The funding that schools relied upon from the Federal and State levels has all but evaporated. Districts are struggling and there are layoffs and school closings. Some districts are on the point of bankruptcy. Parents can't afford to pay higher taxes since their own incomes are shrinking. They most certainly can't afford to send their children to private schools either.

While the existing public school system had problems primarily with inner city schools it was providing an education for about 50 million children nationwide. That is now in jeopardy because of people like unokatore who supported the sequester and slashing government funding of public schools. No provision was made to ensure that the existing public schools would still have funding. No provision was made for alternative schooling either.

50 million children are now facing a substandard education assuming that the public education system manages to remain afloat. This is a national disgrace in my opinion. If you thought that our public education system was bad before now it will drop to 3rd world standards without any government funding. The futures of our children and grandchildren are in jeopardy because we are literally throwing the baby out with the dirty bathwater because we are too cheap and stingy to pay for their education. This will be recorded as a shameful period in our history.

50 million children are now facing a substandard eduction that is wholly controlled by state and federal governments. Until the bleeding hearts and presumed do-gooders acknowledge that fact, there will be no solution as the federal government, most especially, has yet to competently and effectively manage a single social program that does not have more negatives than positives and/or is far more costly than it ever needed to be.

It is absolutely absurd to take the taxpayer's money away from the citizens, absord up to two-thirds or more of it into an ever more bloated bureaucracy, and then dribble whatever is left out to the schools along with a lot of nonsensical mandates that further restricts the school districts from being able to utilze the funds in the most effective manner.

Get big government out of it and leave the money, resources, and incentives with the local school districts for the teachers, parents, and local citizens to manage.

As for what my links showed about Head Start, we'll just have to disagree about that. I read the whole essay. You apparently did not.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Well, I generally am no fan of Unkotare's take on a number of subjects, but I will respectfully protest here as I do not see that he threw anybody under anything. He is offering a very defensible reasoned argument suggesting that which has no proven track record of benefit or success should not continue to receive public funding.

There is no proof available that Head Start is living up to its advertising. Even some, maybe many of those who promote and support the program admit it is usually little more than a different kind of child care service for low income families.

A good pro and con argument for Head Start can be found here:
Pros and Cons of Public Preschool: The Debate | PublicSchoolReview.com

Elsewhere I recently read, though I can't immediately lay my hands on the link, a comprehensive study showing that First Graders who had Head Start do usually have a leg up on their classmates in some areas. But by Third Grade, that advantage has evaporated and there is no difference noted between those that had Head Start and those that did not.

And anecdotally, I refer back to my early education in a time that such things as kindergarten and preschool did not exist. For me and essentially all my peers, our first day in First Grade was our first day in any kind of classroom or formal learning experience. But we all received a Class A education that allowed us to compete with anybody. And I am going to guess that 90% of us went on to get at least some college and we have a very high number of college graduates.

The title and advertising on many government programs, no matter how high minded and noble they might look, simply do not deliver on giving us our our money's worth.

In my opinion the government would utilize its limited resources much more effectively and altruistically by focusing on re-establishing the nuclear family, preferably two-parent homes, and promoting that as the national norm. That and getting itself out of the education business altogether would do wonders for the education of our children.

The benefits of Head Start were working exactly as intended according to the links you provided. Prior to HS underprivileged children were lagging behind their peers in those initial grades and never subsequently catching up. The HS program was intended to ensure that would not happen and it worked. Or at least it was working until the budget was slashed and now children who would have benefited are being denied the program because there is insufficient funding.

As far as the government getting out of school funding that is already happening nationwide. The funding that schools relied upon from the Federal and State levels has all but evaporated. Districts are struggling and there are layoffs and school closings. Some districts are on the point of bankruptcy. Parents can't afford to pay higher taxes since their own incomes are shrinking. They most certainly can't afford to send their children to private schools either.

While the existing public school system had problems primarily with inner city schools it was providing an education for about 50 million children nationwide. That is now in jeopardy because of people like unokatore who supported the sequester and slashing government funding of public schools. No provision was made to ensure that the existing public schools would still have funding. No provision was made for alternative schooling either.

50 million children are now facing a substandard education assuming that the public education system manages to remain afloat. This is a national disgrace in my opinion. If you thought that our public education system was bad before now it will drop to 3rd world standards without any government funding. The futures of our children and grandchildren are in jeopardy because we are literally throwing the baby out with the dirty bathwater because we are too cheap and stingy to pay for their education. This will be recorded as a shameful period in our history.

50 million children are now facing a substandard eduction that is wholly controlled by state and federal governments. Until the bleeding hearts and presumed do-gooders acknowledge that fact, there will be no solution as the federal government, most especially, has yet to competently and effectively manage a single social program that does not have more negatives than positives and/or is far more costly than it ever needed to be.

It is absolutely absurd to take the taxpayer's money away from the citizens, absord up to two-thirds or more of it into an ever more bloated bureaucracy, and then dribble whatever is left out to the schools along with a lot of nonsensical mandates that further restricts the school districts from being able to utilze the funds in the most effective manner.

Get big government out of it and leave the money, resources, and incentives with the local school districts for the teachers, parents, and local citizens to manage.

As for what my links showed about Head Start, we'll just have to disagree about that. I read the whole essay. You apparently did not.

We will have to agree to disagree on this topic but that won't alter the dire straights that the current fiscal policies are having on the education of our children and grandchildren. We the People have a responsibility for what is happening.

Peace
DT

 

[Unkotare]

And that you deflect from your own agenda so as to avoid having to deal with the consequences.

And just what do you understand to be my "agenda"?

 

[Unkotare]

But what is most egregious is your allegation that I failed to address your question when I did nothing of the sort. .

You very clearly did so.

 

[Wry Catcher]

And that you deflect from your own agenda so as to avoid having to deal with the consequences.

And just what do you understand to be my "agenda"?

Your agenda seems to be whatever the Tea Party Propaganda Machine tell you it is.

 

[Foxfyre]

And that you deflect from your own agenda so as to avoid having to deal with the consequences.

And just what do you understand to be my "agenda"?

Your agenda seems to be whatever the Tea Party Propaganda Machine tell you it is.

And with one short sentence you wiped out what could have been a thoughtful and positive debate on an important subject and transformed it into just another stupid partisan food fight. Good job WC. I honestly think it must be something in the water that you guys drink. But I'll wish you a pleasant evening.

 

[Wry Catcher]

And just what do you understand to be my "agenda"?

Your agenda seems to be whatever the Tea Party Propaganda Machine tell you it is.

And with one short sentence you wiped out what could have been a thoughtful and positive debate on an important subject and transformed it into just another stupid partisan food fight. Good job WC. I honestly think it must be something in the water that you guys drink. But I'll wish you a pleasant evening.

I see. BTW, have you read any of Unkotare posts? Have you made comments as to their 'substance'? Seems you may want to look in the mirror when making an accusation in re partisanship.

 

[Derideo_Te]

And just what do you understand to be my "agenda"?

Your agenda seems to be whatever the Tea Party Propaganda Machine tell you it is.

And with one short sentence you wiped out what could have been a thoughtful and positive debate on an important subject and transformed it into just another stupid partisan food fight. Good job WC. I honestly think it must be something in the water that you guys drink. But I'll wish you a pleasant evening.

Since unkotare has refused to provide any "thoughtful and positive debate on an important subject" I have placed him on ignore. I simply don't have the time to waste on his endless deflections and dishonesty. WC's characterization of him is entirely consistent with all of his posts in this thread. It is also consistent with eflatminor's for that matter.

The debate on education needs to be constructive in my opinion. Constantly denigrating the public school system does not meet that criteria (and to your credit you acknowledged that there are good public schools, Foxy). WC has come up with some workable suggestions. What is currently missing is how this is going to be funded. No one has provided a feasible and viable for profit free market alternative in spite of several requests.

 

[Unkotare]

And that you deflect from your own agenda so as to avoid having to deal with the consequences.

And just what do you understand to be my "agenda"?

Your agenda seems to be whatever the Tea Party Propaganda Machine tell you it is.

Oh, I know you were just dying to play the partisan shill there, but you're not even close. Too bad.

 

[Unkotare]

Your agenda seems to be whatever the Tea Party Propaganda Machine tell you it is.

And with one short sentence you wiped out what could have been a thoughtful and positive debate on an important subject and transformed it into just another stupid partisan food fight. Good job WC. I honestly think it must be something in the water that you guys drink. But I'll wish you a pleasant evening.

Since unkotare has refused to provide any "thoughtful and positive debate on an important subject" I have placed him on ignore. I simply don't have the time to waste on his endless deflections and dishonesty. WC's characterization of him is entirely consistent with all of his posts in this thread. It is also consistent with eflatminor's for that matter.

The debate on education needs to be constructive in my opinion. Constantly denigrating the public school system does not meet that criteria (and to your credit you acknowledged that there are good public schools, Foxy). WC has come up with some workable suggestions. What is currently missing is how this is going to be funded. No one has provided a feasible and viable for profit free market alternative in spite of several requests.

Some people don't want a discussion, they want an echo chamber. Barring that, they engage in hyperbole, assumption, dishonesty, petulance, and avoidance.

 

[Derideo_Te]

And with one short sentence you wiped out what could have been a thoughtful and positive debate on an important subject and transformed it into just another stupid partisan food fight. Good job WC. I honestly think it must be something in the water that you guys drink. But I'll wish you a pleasant evening.

Since unkotare has refused to provide any "thoughtful and positive debate on an important subject" I have placed him on ignore. I simply don't have the time to waste on his endless deflections and dishonesty. WC's characterization of him is entirely consistent with all of his posts in this thread. It is also consistent with eflatminor's for that matter.

The debate on education needs to be constructive in my opinion. Constantly denigrating the public school system does not meet that criteria (and to your credit you acknowledged that there are good public schools, Foxy). WC has come up with some workable suggestions. What is currently missing is how this is going to be funded. No one has provided a feasible and viable for profit free market alternative in spite of several requests.

Some people don't want a discussion, they want an echo chamber. Barring that, they engage in hyperbole, assumption, dishonesty, petulance, and avoidance.

Ironic! Thanks for confirming that you deserve to be ignored. Have a nice life.

 

[editec]

Spend some time tutoring kids in the public schools today--I do that now and then--and you will see up close and personal the hgh level of ignorance and non subjects that passes for public education these days.

Spend some time mentoring a group of recent highschool graduates and college kids who not one--count them, not ONE--had any clue who Karl Marx was, not one could name any key members of the President's cabinet, not one could provide anywhere close to an accurate definition for an unalienable right, not one had any idea what the annual deficit or the national debt was, andyou get an up close and personal microcosm of how much our kids are not being educated.

Google up some Watters World You Tube 'man on the street' videos and you get a further idea of how much kids and adults don't know about what is going on.

Here is just one short Watters World segment that sort of sums it all up:
Watters' World: Spring break edition | Fox News Video

And here's some more:

Watters' World Dumbest Moments When People Say Dumb Thing O'Reilly Factor - YouTube

And here's Part II of dumbest moments:
WATTERS' WORLD: 'Dumbest Things Ever Said'...PART II - Fox Nation

These "on the street" videos proves exactly nothing.

Since purpose of these is to show how ignorant people are what one does is keep the interviews of the ignorant and toss the interviews of those who are not.


Americans are not quite so ignorant as some here would like us to believe, and if they are their education has very little to do with that.

Some people are interested in the world and therefore pay attention, some do not.

 

[Unkotare]

Since unkotare has refused to provide any "thoughtful and positive debate on an important subject" I have placed him on ignore. I simply don't have the time to waste on his endless deflections and dishonesty. WC's characterization of him is entirely consistent with all of his posts in this thread. It is also consistent with eflatminor's for that matter.

The debate on education needs to be constructive in my opinion. Constantly denigrating the public school system does not meet that criteria (and to your credit you acknowledged that there are good public schools, Foxy). WC has come up with some workable suggestions. What is currently missing is how this is going to be funded. No one has provided a feasible and viable for profit free market alternative in spite of several requests.

Some people don't want a discussion, they want an echo chamber. Barring that, they engage in hyperbole, assumption, dishonesty, petulance, and avoidance.

Ironic! Thanks for confirming that you deserve to be ignored. Have a nice life.

Thanks for confirming that you are not interested in or capable of an actual discussion.

 

[Unkotare]

Some people are interested in the world and therefore pay attention, some do not.

And those who are "interested in the world and therefore pay attention" just happen to be those who agree with you, right? Amazing how it works out that way...