Is this fair?

[Shusha]

How Israel is disabling Palestinian teenagers

abi

Fanger's post is a really good example of charges against Israel that deserve further examination. In particular, research what happens during "clashes" and how the boy's behaviour might have influenced the decisions of Israeli law enforcement officers in their use of force. Think about how other countries use force when confronting large violent crowds. If you can, try to find at least one article written by an Israeli news source. (Often both sources can be demonstrated to show a bias, but by reading both sides, you can often get a good balanced point of view.)

 

[fanger]

Find an article of how jewish israeli's throwing stones are treated differently from arab israeli's throwing stones, arab children are brought before military courts while jewish children are brought to civil courts, and they don't shoot israeli jews only arabs

 

[fanger]

Israel holding 58 Palestinian women 'under dire conditions'
The Israeli regime is holding at least 58 Palestinian women, including 10 minors, "under dire conditions" in its jails, the Prisoners and Freed Prisoners Committee says.

The committee recently said the female prisoners were being held in HaSharon and Damon jails. It said the Palestinian women suffered physical and emotional abuse by the Israeli Prison Service (IPS).

The basic rights of the inmates, the committee said, are violated as they have no access to essential needs such as medical care. Several of the jailed women were under 18 when they were sentenced and they have turned 18 behind Israeli bars.

The number of female prisoners in Israeli jails has increased in the past several months. The Palestinian women are serving sentences of eight months to 16 years, and some of them are held without charge or trial under the so-called administrative detention policy.

PressTV-Israel holds 58 Palestinian women in 'dire conditions'

 

[P F Tinmore]

2. Palestine was NOT divided into areas of occupation. Israel was redefined by an armistice based off what is called the Green line.

Link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

1, Jews were never intended to become citizens of a mythological state of palestine.

Link?

 

[Boston1]

The right of conquest is the right of a conqueror to territory taken by force of arms. It was traditionally a principle ofinternational law that has gradually given way in modern times until its proscription after World War II when the crime of war of aggression was first codified in the Nuremberg Principles and then finally, in 1974, as a United Nations resolution 3314.[1]
Right of conquest - Wikipedia

And he also loves to conveniently forget the timeline.

67 war happened in, you guessed it, 1967. A tad before 1974 in which case the UN resolution wouldn't apply unless it was made retroactive and specific to Israel.

So yeah, there's that

 

[teddyearp]

abi , First off, welcome to the site and the I/P section. There are some real sound recommendations in this thread for you to do some of your own serious research. Please make note of those who make the recommendations and those who have come in here to just do some bashing. It sounds like you have read a few posts here. I suggest you read this thread here:

Let us discuss this openly... What exactly IS the "two states solution"?

As you will find out clearly which of the posters on this board truly want a peaceful solution and which of the posters on this board who clearly do not. I did.

I first came to this board as a strong Pro-Israel and I may have had little feelings for the Palestinians. I have done as others have suggested in this thread that you do and now have changed my mind. I am for both sides. To live in peace. However, it is a shame, IMHO, that the Arab/Palestinian leadership has been using the "Palestinian plight" only as a propaganda tool to erase the State of Israel (and the Jews) from the face of the earth. Well, I guess Fanger is ok with their tiny city in Siberia, but we know how the USSR considered Siberia, hehe .As it is a shame that there are some extremist Israeli's that take to throwing trash on their Arab neighbors and the way they have created some of the 'settlements' as well.

Now to address the video:

1. At first I wondered about the claim she made at :26 about the three different areas part of the original partition. She was loosely talking about the U.N. Partition.
2. At :49 she says that the West Bank has been occupied since 1967. She leaves out the fact that Jordan occupied the West Bank from 1948 to 1967. And Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip during the same time frame.
3. At 1:40, she mentions "some guy's funeral" without any backup.
4. At 3:05 she states the the Dome of the Rock is the most Holy site, implying for the Muslims. Research that. The Temple Mount is only the third most Holy site to the Muslims, but the most Holy to the Jews.
5. At 3:41, she states she couldn't get into Gaza. Well, that blows. Anything she has to say about Gaza. She's never been there. And in all fairness, neither have I, but I am sure Hamas wouldn't allow me in either. Spoiler alert: Hamas has just as much control over who and what goes into and out of the Gaza strip as Israel.
6. At 4:00 she states that Ramallah is a totally cool and open city. Which I have read that it is. Ramallah is firmly inside the West Bank, yet she claims the whole West Bank is under Marshal Law. Do you see the contradiction? Tel Aviv is a very open and cool city just like Ramallah.
7. At 4:26, she claims that Gaza was created to be a surplus refugee camp when Israel was created. This is totally wrong. In fact, Israel forcefully removed all the Jews from the Gaza strip in 2005.
8. At 5:10 she claims that the Palestinians in the West Bank just are waiting to be killed, etc. If so, then why #6?
9. At 5:45, she states she was there for a month. Hmm, I have made two trips to Israel; each one was two weeks each. My take is very different then hers.
10. At 5:56, she states that there are two different license plates. This is true. You have blue on white for cars registered for Israel, and green on yellow for cars registered for Palestinian territories. So the works for a free and independent Palestinian state does have a beginning.
11. At 6:57 she states that "Israel is a white nationalist state". That one is just plain out and out funny. I've seen plenty of different skin colors in Israel without anyone discriminating against another for their skin color.

I stopped watching there. And that is all I have for now. Do. Your. Own. Research. From both sides. Check out jpost and ma'an. Blend the inflammatory 'key words' together. Or realize that the use of such is a trigger to make your mind think for itself. 'Terrorist". "Zionist". "Nazi". Islamonazi. Occupier. Anti-Semitism.

good luck

 

[P F Tinmore]

Blend the inflammatory 'key words' together. Or realize that the use of such is a trigger to make your mind think for itself. 'Terrorist". "Zionist". "Nazi". Islamonazi. Occupier. Anti-Semitism.

Good points. Zionist is what they call themselves and is a legitimate term. Occupation is true and is a legitimate term.

Terrorist, Nazi, Islamonazi, and Anti-Semitism, are just name calling and sources using those terms should be avoided.

 

[Boston1]

Damn good job Teddy

 

[Boston1]

Blend the inflammatory 'key words' together. Or realize that the use of such is a trigger to make your mind think for itself. 'Terrorist". "Zionist". "Nazi". Islamonazi. Occupier. Anti-Semitism.

Good points. Zionist is what they call themselves and is a legitimate term. Occupation is true and is a legitimate term.

Terrorist, Nazi, Islamonazi, and Anti-Semitism, are just name calling and sources using those terms should be avoided.

Didn't NAZIs call themselves NAZIs ;-) and didn't NAZIs meet with the palestinian leaders and agree on the holocaust lest the Judaic people simple return to Judea if the NAZIs just kicked them out instead of implementing "the final solution"

Just curious

Seems like a history of genocidal and anti semitic actions on the part of both the NAZIs and the Arab leadership in the palestine

 

[Sixties Fan]

Hi Abi,

Did you do the research on the video?
Do you have any questions, or have you gotten the answers you were looking for from all the posts?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Is this fair?
※→ fanger, et al,

One correction!

Also israel is not the only jewish state, Birobidzhan - Wikipedia
neither of which I plan to destroy

(COMMENT)

An "Oblast" is NOT an an independent nation. It is a special political subdivision in the category of a federated state (similar to a provinces or state, county or township in the West) within the Russian Federation.

Birobidzhan is a municipality seat of local government for the larger political subdivision - the Jewish Autonomous Oblast. Administrative divisions have the same names as their administrative centers; in this case, Birobidzhan.

It is predominately Jewish, and a special Jewish territory (about 200,000 people), it is NOT a sovereign state like Israel; and is still subject to Russian federal government and law which granted Oblast status (of which there are 40 or 50). Like any state in the US or Germany, there are state laws separate from federal laws; and a certain amount of state's rights in governance --- separate from the federal level. But it is not sovereign unto itself.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

The basic rights of the inmates, the committee said, are violated as they have no access to essential needs such as medical care.

PressTV-Israel holds 58 Palestinian women in 'dire conditions'

Another great article to research and counter-research.

The article, as quoted above, states that the women have "no access to essential needs such as medical care". The implication is that the women are treated in sub-human ways lacking the basic necessities of life. Notice that it provides no factual information, reporting or evidence of the claim made.

And yet, the ICRC consistently reports: The law provides prisoners and detainees the right to conditions that do not harm their health or dignity. Conditions in permanent detention facilities run by the Israel Prison Service (IPS) generally met international standards, according to the International Commission of the Red Cross (ICRC)

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Is this fair?
※→ Shusha, fanger, et al,

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is that international activity that overseas such issues and inmate care. On the otherhand, what is "PressTV?" Why would PressTV go out of its way to slant a story?

The basic rights of the inmates, the committee said, are violated as they have no access to essential needs such as medical care.

PressTV-Israel holds 58 Palestinian women in 'dire conditions'

Another great article to research and counter-research.

The article, as quoted above, states that the women have "no access to essential needs such as medical care". The implication is that the women are treated in sub-human ways lacking the basic necessities of life. Notice that it provides no factual information, reporting or evidence of the claim made.

And yet, the ICRC consistently reports: The law provides prisoners and detainees the right to conditions that do not harm their health or dignity. Conditions in permanent detention facilities run by the Israel Prison Service (IPS) generally met international standards, according to the International Commission of the Red Cross (ICRC)

(OBSERVATION)

• About PressTV •

Press TV takes revolutionary steps as the first Iranian international news network, broadcasting in English on a round-the-clock basis.

Our global Tehran-based headquarters is staffed with outstanding Iranian and foreign media professionals.

Press TV is extensively networked with bureaus located in the world's most strategic cities.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Boston1]

So Fanger quoted an Iranian propaganda site. Interesting. I wonder if he'll do the right thing and make a retraction.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I just want to say that I am writing about this for a history class and I have found posters here that seem to have a good grasp on what is happening between the Israelis and the Palestinians. I also have seen some crazy, racist rants and I am not interested in those posts at all, although they do tell their own story.

Long story short, this women is on Joe Rogan's podcast. She had traveled to Israel and Palestine and stayed there for an extended time and describes a situation that seems absolutely insane. I have seen enough to know that there are serious problems there, but what she describes?

I am looking for anyone who can come on here and tell me if she is describing what is actually going on, or, if she is lying, what is she actually lying about.

Thank-you up front for any help.

Here is something else to look at.

 

[Linkiloo]

Abi, my take is also that you think for yourself.
Avoid posters who demonise the "other camp". Avoid articles that use emotive language.
Anti-semitism isn't emotive, so there I disagree with Teddy. Often anti-zionism is linked to anti-semitism, but not always. My lithium test is: does the critique of Israel expect the same standards as it would of any other people/army/nation? If not, there is some deeper motivation to hold the Jews to a higher standard and it is anti-semitism. If not, it is justified criticism.

 

[fanger]

So Fanger quoted an Iranian propaganda site. Interesting. I wonder if he'll do the right thing and make a retraction.

the correct retraction would be your head from your arse , they are quoting The Palestinian Committee of Prisoners and Released Prisoners’ Affairs

 

[Roudy]

I just want to say that I am writing about this for a history class and I have found posters here that seem to have a good grasp on what is happening between the Israelis and the Palestinians. I also have seen some crazy, racist rants and I am not interested in those posts at all, although they do tell their own story.

Long story short, this women is on Joe Rogan's podcast. She had traveled to Israel and Palestine and stayed there for an extended time and describes a situation that seems absolutely insane. I have seen enough to know that there are serious problems there, but what she describes?

I am looking for anyone who can come on here and tell me if she is describing what is actually going on, or, if she is lying, what is she actually lying about.

Thank-you up front for any help.

She's a left wing liar and a hack that is totally ignorant of history and facts. Nothing new here.

 

[teddyearp]

In the video she also mentioned a law against posting on social media, wonder if she's actually talking about this one:

Palestinian Authority shows its ‘authoritarian’ face through Cyber Crimes Law

The above law being passed by the PA and Abbas, NOT Israel.