Is this a fair representative of Christianity?

[aris2chat]

Gotta LOL at the "love the sinner while hating the sin" paradox.

Essentially you are advocating hating love!

Just because a gay person loves someone of the same sex you hate their love for that person while pretending that you love the gay person at the same time.

Is it any wonder that atheists like myself don't want anything at all to do with that kind of cognitive dissonance?

What is more defining of a person than the love they give to others?

If your "love" is conditional then it isn't love.

I hate my sins. But I don't hate myself.
What is your definition of "love"?
As a Christian, you love God most. It's above anyone you would love on this earth, even your children.

Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's.

God's love is not conditional. We as human's, however, are fallible.
I seriously doubt any human being is capable of 100% unconditional love.
I have gay family members I love deeply. Because I don't agree with or approve of their lifestyle doesn't mean I don't love them.

It is not a life choice, it is the way they were created before birth. Shame on you for not approving of them.
If you believe in god, then you should accept your family as god created them.

God created us to be His companions, and, gave us free will.
We chose to go our own way and that is why there is sin in the world.
We all sin. Acting on your homosexual desires (whether or not they are inborn or not) is sinful.
I don't approve of what a lot of my family members to, I even DISAPPROVE of things I do myself!
Again, love and acceptance of someone doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they do.
If you are a Christian, you should want to deny yourself your earthly desires and be obedient to him.
If you are not a Christian, and choose your own rules and your own way, I think you are not making a wise choice, nor a healthy one, yet, it is your choice indeed!

So if your family member wanted to get married and asked you to attend or make a cake for them you would refuse because of their action was a choice and not the way their were designed by god?

You refuse to associated with them because of their sinful choices? You reject having them near your children because their life style might be learned or accepted by your children?

They have no choice in who they are attracted to. It is part of their brain chemistry.
In a world with over population, starvation, war, disease........why should anyone care who they love or what their family looks like? They can adopt or use a surrogate to have children, unlike siblings who would create inbred problems if they produced children.

If they were created by a perfect god in his image then why are they seen as imperfect? Why were we not all created with homosexual desires if we were meant to fight them to prove to some god we can be better than our base instincts? If god wants us as companions, why can't he accept us as we are instead of expecting us to be something we are not? If a perfect god created us, why are we not perfect from birth to death, or why even go through birth and a death. Why not just create us at our peak and make us eternal like that?

Shame that you can't accept your family as they are and support them if they can find love with someone else?

 

[Bonzi]

Gotta LOL at the "love the sinner while hating the sin" paradox.

Essentially you are advocating hating love!

Just because a gay person loves someone of the same sex you hate their love for that person while pretending that you love the gay person at the same time.

Is it any wonder that atheists like myself don't want anything at all to do with that kind of cognitive dissonance?

What is more defining of a person than the love they give to others?

If your "love" is conditional then it isn't love.

I hate my sins. But I don't hate myself.
What is your definition of "love"?
As a Christian, you love God most. It's above anyone you would love on this earth, even your children.

Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's.

God's love is not conditional. We as human's, however, are fallible.
I seriously doubt any human being is capable of 100% unconditional love.
I have gay family members I love deeply. Because I don't agree with or approve of their lifestyle doesn't mean I don't love them.

It is not a life choice, it is the way they were created before birth. Shame on you for not approving of them.
If you believe in god, then you should accept your family as god created them.

God created us to be His companions, and, gave us free will.
We chose to go our own way and that is why there is sin in the world.
We all sin. Acting on your homosexual desires (whether or not they are inborn or not) is sinful.
I don't approve of what a lot of my family members to, I even DISAPPROVE of things I do myself!
Again, love and acceptance of someone doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they do.
If you are a Christian, you should want to deny yourself your earthly desires and be obedient to him.
If you are not a Christian, and choose your own rules and your own way, I think you are not making a wise choice, nor a healthy one, yet, it is your choice indeed!

So if your family member wanted to get married and asked you to attend or make a cake for them you would refuse because of their action was a choice and not the way their were designed by god?

You refuse to associated with them because of their sinful choices? You reject having them near your children because their life style might be learned or accepted by your children?

They have no choice in who they are attracted to. It is part of their brain chemistry.
In a world with over population, starvation, war, disease........why should anyone care who they love or what their family looks like? They can adopt or use a surrogate to have children, unlike siblings who would create inbred problems if they produced children.

If they were created by a perfect god in his image then why are they seen as imperfect? Why were we not all created with homosexual desires if we were meant to fight them to prove to some god we can be better than our base instincts? If god wants us as companions, why can't he accept us as we are instead of expecting us to be something we are not? If a perfect god created us, why are we not perfect from birth to death, or why even go through birth and a death. Why not just create us at our peak and make us eternal like that?

Shame that you can't accept your family as they are and support them if they can find love with someone else?

They know I love them and they respect my beliefs - so they love me as I love them "as is" - they don't agree with my beliefs, and I believe it would be best for them to follow God.

You have more issue with my family than we do!

 

[Derideo_Te]

No, I don't. I am using your own beliefs to expose their fallacy.

You are proposing, from what I have gathered so far, that someone can be a KG their entire life and still end up in heaven because they signed on the dotted line for your religion.

Is that not what you are saying?

What I am saying is that if you truly give your live over to God, acknowledging his sacrifice for your sins, and begin to live for him, you will have everlasting life with Him.

It's about your heart. Not your actions.

In other words you are condoning KG.

Got it.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Gotta LOL at the "love the sinner while hating the sin" paradox.

Essentially you are advocating hating love!

Just because a gay person loves someone of the same sex you hate their love for that person while pretending that you love the gay person at the same time.

Is it any wonder that atheists like myself don't want anything at all to do with that kind of cognitive dissonance?

What is more defining of a person than the love they give to others?

If your "love" is conditional then it isn't love.

I hate my sins. But I don't hate myself.
What is your definition of "love"?
As a Christian, you love God most. It's above anyone you would love on this earth, even your children.

Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's.

God's love is not conditional. We as human's, however, are fallible.
I seriously doubt any human being is capable of 100% unconditional love.
I have gay family members I love deeply. Because I don't agree with or approve of their lifestyle doesn't mean I don't love them.

You know absolutely nothing whatsoever about atheists.

But thanks for tacitly admitting that your God's love is conditional since you are required to do something in order to personally benefit from it.

 

[Bonzi]

You know absolutely nothing whatsoever about atheists.

But thanks for tacitly admitting that your God's love is conditional since you are required to do something in order to personally benefit from it.

Really? I used to be an Athiest so that is interesting....

God's love is not dependent upon our actions. If I said it, that's my error. But we are back to the other thread of freewill. God created us with freewill, so, we can choose to love him back or not. Because God is perfect and holy, only those covered in Jesus' blood (figuratively) can enter into his presence. If you reject that Jesus died for your sins, you are rejecting God's gift of salvations and eternal life. Because you have the freewill to do so.

This doesn't mean God doesn't love you.

Your child may choose to disown you, but you still love them, correct? Not all parents would....
The difference with God is that he wants everyone to come to Him because he loves them, but, many will choose their own way instead....

 

[Derideo_Te]

You know absolutely nothing whatsoever about atheists.

But thanks for tacitly admitting that your God's love is conditional since you are required to do something in order to personally benefit from it.

Really? I used to be an Athiest so that is interesting....

God's love is not dependent upon our actions. If I said it, that's my error. But we are back to the other thread of freewill. God created us with freewill, so, we can choose to love him back or not. Because God is perfect and holy, only those covered in Jesus' blood (figuratively) can enter into his presence. If you reject that Jesus died for your sins, you are rejecting God's gift of salvations and eternal life. Because you have the freewill to do so.

This doesn't mean God doesn't love you.

Your child may choose to disown you, but you still love them, correct? Not all parents would....
The difference with God is that he wants everyone to come to Him because he loves them, but, many will choose their own way instead....

You made these fallacious claims about atheists;

"Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's."​

That reeks of ignorance about atheists.

Where is your evidence that atheists "want it their own way"?

Where is your evidence that atheists "think their way is better than God's"?

 

[Bonzi]

You know absolutely nothing whatsoever about atheists.

But thanks for tacitly admitting that your God's love is conditional since you are required to do something in order to personally benefit from it.

Really? I used to be an Athiest so that is interesting....

God's love is not dependent upon our actions. If I said it, that's my error. But we are back to the other thread of freewill. God created us with freewill, so, we can choose to love him back or not. Because God is perfect and holy, only those covered in Jesus' blood (figuratively) can enter into his presence. If you reject that Jesus died for your sins, you are rejecting God's gift of salvations and eternal life. Because you have the freewill to do so.

This doesn't mean God doesn't love you.

Your child may choose to disown you, but you still love them, correct? Not all parents would....
The difference with God is that he wants everyone to come to Him because he loves them, but, many will choose their own way instead....

You made these fallacious claims about atheists;

"Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's."​

That reeks of ignorance about atheists.

Where is your evidence that atheists "want it their own way"?

Where is your evidence that atheists "think their way is better than God's"?

I can only speak to my own experience as a former Atheist.

What I mean by "their own way" is they want to live by what is "right in their own mind". It may be a self-sacrificial lifestyle, but, unless it's for the glory of God, ultimately, its as filthy rags.

An Atheist doesn't believe in God so, by reason, their (Human way) is the only way.

I don't believe there is a "doctrine of Atheism" - people that don't believe in God have various beliefs regarding the meaning of life and why we are here.... inclusive of what I used to believe....Life: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing....

What do YOU believe?

 

[Derideo_Te]

You know absolutely nothing whatsoever about atheists.

But thanks for tacitly admitting that your God's love is conditional since you are required to do something in order to personally benefit from it.

Really? I used to be an Athiest so that is interesting....

God's love is not dependent upon our actions. If I said it, that's my error. But we are back to the other thread of freewill. God created us with freewill, so, we can choose to love him back or not. Because God is perfect and holy, only those covered in Jesus' blood (figuratively) can enter into his presence. If you reject that Jesus died for your sins, you are rejecting God's gift of salvations and eternal life. Because you have the freewill to do so.

This doesn't mean God doesn't love you.

Your child may choose to disown you, but you still love them, correct? Not all parents would....
The difference with God is that he wants everyone to come to Him because he loves them, but, many will choose their own way instead....

You made these fallacious claims about atheists;

"Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's."​

That reeks of ignorance about atheists.

Where is your evidence that atheists "want it their own way"?

Where is your evidence that atheists "think their way is better than God's"?

I can only speak to my own experience as a former Atheist.

What I mean by "their own way" is they want to live by what is "right in their own mind". It may be a self-sacrificial lifestyle, but, unless it's for the glory of God, ultimately, its as filthy rags.

An Atheist doesn't believe in God so, by reason, their (Human way) is the only way.

I don't believe there is a "doctrine of Atheism" - people that don't believe in God have various beliefs regarding the meaning of life and why we are here.... inclusive of what I used to believe....Life: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing....

What do YOU believe?

Ever heard the expression there are none so zealous as the recently converted?

That is exactly how you are coming across.

You asked...

What do YOU believe?

I DON'T believe in superstitions that were invented to control others.

If I "believe" in anything at all it is in We the People to reach a more perfect union.

My personal values have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Instead I came to them by thinking through all of the ethical situations that everyone faces and how I am going to live with myself and my nearest and dearest. I treat others they way I expect to be treated myself. I set a very high bar for myself to live bar and I expect others to rise to my level because I won't stoop to theirs.

But those are values, not beliefs.

The single most important value that I have is that I will never lie to myself about anything. I am brutally honest about myself and my shortcomings and how I deal with them when I fail to live up to my own values.

So I see no benefit to wasting my life trying to deceive myself into "believing" something for which there is no basis of "truth" whatsoever.

Your God has feet of clay. He is capricious, jealous, vain, callous, arrogant and a sociopathic mass murderer according to your own "word of God". He obviously doesn't "love" those who don't buy his snake oil because he is willing to inflict eternal punishment on his own creations.

In summary your God is insane.

I will place my "faith" in We the People because so far WTP are consistently getting better at taking care of each other than your God has managed to do over the past two thousand years.

 

[BluePhantom]

What you are doing in this thread is a bandaid IMO. Salving your conscience in an obscure thread on a message board with a couple of thousand readers at most is hardly the same thing as publicly denouncing people like her to the entire world.

And how would you suggest that is done for the average person? The average person has neither the time nor the resources to embark on a world-wide campaign denouncing "bad Christians".

Where are the genuine Christians denouncing those who are advocating hatred for gays? Who is the voice of Christianity speaking for Jesus and recognizing that we are all equal under the law and under the eyes of your God?

Or are you saying that under your God's eyes there is no equality and that KG and her vile ilk are right about gays?

You know my position on that topic and you know I have been quite vocal about it. I see no need to repeat it here YET AGAIN. I am not the only one. There are many Christians who champion the rights of the gay community. They are just not the ones who get the press. News media does not get ratings by showing me having a patient and rational discussion about homosexuality and faith. What gets ratings are the Koshergrls who run around baring their teeth. That's a media problem not a Christianity problem.

 

[BluePhantom]

You made these fallacious claims about atheists;

"Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's."​

That reeks of ignorance about atheists.

Where is your evidence that atheists "want it their own way"?

Where is your evidence that atheists "think their way is better than God's"?

I think humans in general (atheist or theist) think their way is better than God's. I have always said that it would be a wonderful day when we loved God as much as we love ourselves and we think of God as our equals. In my experience, most people (theist or atheist) say what they are supposed to say...that they trust n God, they love God, etc...but frankly most of them behave in such a way wherein it appears that they love themselves more and think they know better than God. Many certainly do not trust God or they would not be so incredibly judgmental toward those who have chosen an alternate path. If they trusted God they would allow these people to walk their chosen path secure in the knowledge that God will sort it all out. Their input is not needed in regard to another's relation with God.

If and when the time comes where I stand before the Lord and He says to me "Phantom, why did behave the way you did in regard to how other people live their lives?" Why answer will be "I chose to err on the side of love according to my understanding of the teachings of Jesus, the Apostle Paul, and my true inner self". I don't know how the venomous, the judgmental, the meddlers such as Koshergrl plan to answer that question. But I suppose that's up to them and God to sort out. My input is not required in the conversation between them.

 

[Bonzi]

You made these fallacious claims about atheists;

"Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's."​

That reeks of ignorance about atheists.

Where is your evidence that atheists "want it their own way"?

Where is your evidence that atheists "think their way is better than God's"?

I think humans in general (atheist or theist) think their way is better than God's. I have always said that it would be a wonderful day when we loved God as much as we love ourselves and we think of God as our equals. In my experience, most people (theist or atheist) say what they are supposed to say...that they trust n God, they love God, etc...but frankly most of them behave in such a way wherein it appears that they love themselves more and think they know better than God. Many certainly do not trust God or they would not be so incredibly judgmental toward those who have chosen an alternate path. If they trusted God they would allow these people to walk their chosen path secure in the knowledge that God will sort it all out. Their input is not needed in regard to another's relation with God.

If and when the time comes where I stand before the Lord and He says to me "Phantom, why did behave the way you did in regard to how other people live their lives?" Why answer will be "I chose to err on the side of love according to the teachings of Jesus, the Apostle Paul, and my true inner self". I don't know how the venomous, the judgmental, the meddlers such as Koshergrl plan to answer that question. But I suppose that's up to them and God to sort out. My input is not required in the conversation between them.

I know God's way is better. I don't think my way is better.

That being said, I want my way..... but, as a Christian, realize, this is not for my best, and also realize, to love God I must forego my selfish desires to please him.

Non-Christian's simply can NOT grasp this.

 

[Derideo_Te]

What you are doing in this thread is a bandaid IMO. Salving your conscience in an obscure thread on a message board with a couple of thousand readers at most is hardly the same thing as publicly denouncing people like her to the entire world.

And how would you suggest that is done for the average person? The average person has neither the time nor the resources to embark on a world-wide campaign denouncing "bad Christians".

Where are the genuine Christians denouncing those who are advocating hatred for gays? Who is the voice of Christianity speaking for Jesus and recognizing that we are all equal under the law and under the eyes of your God?

Or are you saying that under your God's eyes there is no equality and that KG and her vile ilk are right about gays?

You know my position on that topic and you know I have been quite vocal about it. I see no need to repeat it here YET AGAIN. I am not the only one. There are many Christians who champion the rights of the gay community. They are just not the ones who get the press. News media does not get ratings by showing me having a patient and rational discussion about homosexuality and faith. What gets ratings are the Koshergrls who run around baring their teeth. That's a media problem not a Christianity problem.

If you don't see that as a Christianity problem then you have to deal with the negative perception of Christianity that others have of you because of the KG's out there.

 

[Bonzi]

What you are doing in this thread is a bandaid IMO. Salving your conscience in an obscure thread on a message board with a couple of thousand readers at most is hardly the same thing as publicly denouncing people like her to the entire world.

And how would you suggest that is done for the average person? The average person has neither the time nor the resources to embark on a world-wide campaign denouncing "bad Christians".

Where are the genuine Christians denouncing those who are advocating hatred for gays? Who is the voice of Christianity speaking for Jesus and recognizing that we are all equal under the law and under the eyes of your God?

Or are you saying that under your God's eyes there is no equality and that KG and her vile ilk are right about gays?

You know my position on that topic and you know I have been quite vocal about it. I see no need to repeat it here YET AGAIN. I am not the only one. There are many Christians who champion the rights of the gay community. They are just not the ones who get the press. News media does not get ratings by showing me having a patient and rational discussion about homosexuality and faith. What gets ratings are the Koshergrls who run around baring their teeth. That's a media problem not a Christianity problem.

If you don't see that as a Christianity problem then you have to deal with the negative perception of Christianity that others have of you because of the KG's out there.

'

Christian's are so passionate about their beliefs that it becomes personal instead of about God and others.
A gay person is no different than a smoker in this sense....

If you are a non-Christian homosexual, there is no reason for you NOT to be homosexual
If you are a non-Christian smoker there is not reason for you NOT to smoke.

If you are a CHRISTIAN homosexual, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire for the same sex.
If you are a CHRISTIAN smoker, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire to smoke.

BOTH are forms of defiling you body, which, as a Christian, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. (scriptural).

If we want to talk secular legalities, that is another topic entirely.

 

[Bonzi]

No, I don't. I am using your own beliefs to expose their fallacy.

You are proposing, from what I have gathered so far, that someone can be a KG their entire life and still end up in heaven because they signed on the dotted line for your religion.

Is that not what you are saying?

What I am saying is that if you truly give your live over to God, acknowledging his sacrifice for your sins, and begin to live for him, you will have everlasting life with Him.

It's about your heart. Not your actions.

In other words you are condoning KG.

Got it.

De Te - are you referring to Koshergirl as a person on this message board, or as a "generalization"?

 

[Bonzi]

You know absolutely nothing whatsoever about atheists.

But thanks for tacitly admitting that your God's love is conditional since you are required to do something in order to personally benefit from it.

Really? I used to be an Athiest so that is interesting....

God's love is not dependent upon our actions. If I said it, that's my error. But we are back to the other thread of freewill. God created us with freewill, so, we can choose to love him back or not. Because God is perfect and holy, only those covered in Jesus' blood (figuratively) can enter into his presence. If you reject that Jesus died for your sins, you are rejecting God's gift of salvations and eternal life. Because you have the freewill to do so.

This doesn't mean God doesn't love you.

Your child may choose to disown you, but you still love them, correct? Not all parents would....
The difference with God is that he wants everyone to come to Him because he loves them, but, many will choose their own way instead....

You made these fallacious claims about atheists;

"Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's."​

That reeks of ignorance about atheists.

Where is your evidence that atheists "want it their own way"?

Where is your evidence that atheists "think their way is better than God's"?

I can only speak to my own experience as a former Atheist.

What I mean by "their own way" is they want to live by what is "right in their own mind". It may be a self-sacrificial lifestyle, but, unless it's for the glory of God, ultimately, its as filthy rags.

An Atheist doesn't believe in God so, by reason, their (Human way) is the only way.

I don't believe there is a "doctrine of Atheism" - people that don't believe in God have various beliefs regarding the meaning of life and why we are here.... inclusive of what I used to believe....Life: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing....

What do YOU believe?

Ever heard the expression there are none so zealous as the recently converted?

That is exactly how you are coming across.

You asked...

What do YOU believe?

I DON'T believe in superstitions that were invented to control others.

If I "believe" in anything at all it is in We the People to reach a more perfect union.

My personal values have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Instead I came to them by thinking through all of the ethical situations that everyone faces and how I am going to live with myself and my nearest and dearest. I treat others they way I expect to be treated myself. I set a very high bar for myself to live bar and I expect others to rise to my level because I won't stoop to theirs.

But those are values, not beliefs.

The single most important value that I have is that I will never lie to myself about anything. I am brutally honest about myself and my shortcomings and how I deal with them when I fail to live up to my own values.

So I see no benefit to wasting my life trying to deceive myself into "believing" something for which there is no basis of "truth" whatsoever.

Your God has feet of clay. He is capricious, jealous, vain, callous, arrogant and a sociopathic mass murderer according to your own "word of God". He obviously doesn't "love" those who don't buy his snake oil because he is willing to inflict eternal punishment on his own creations.

In summary your God is insane.

I will place my "faith" in We the People because so far WTP are consistently getting better at taking care of each other than your God has managed to do over the past two thousand years.

Not sure what you consider "recently" but it has been over 13 years since I've given my life to Jesus and have been baptized.

Truth is not always what is touched, but what is experienced.
How can you deny a truth experienced by so many, and having made so powerful an impact?
How can you not even CONSIDER it, calling yourself and intellectual and open minded person?

 

[Derideo_Te]

What you are doing in this thread is a bandaid IMO. Salving your conscience in an obscure thread on a message board with a couple of thousand readers at most is hardly the same thing as publicly denouncing people like her to the entire world.

And how would you suggest that is done for the average person? The average person has neither the time nor the resources to embark on a world-wide campaign denouncing "bad Christians".

Where are the genuine Christians denouncing those who are advocating hatred for gays? Who is the voice of Christianity speaking for Jesus and recognizing that we are all equal under the law and under the eyes of your God?

Or are you saying that under your God's eyes there is no equality and that KG and her vile ilk are right about gays?

You know my position on that topic and you know I have been quite vocal about it. I see no need to repeat it here YET AGAIN. I am not the only one. There are many Christians who champion the rights of the gay community. They are just not the ones who get the press. News media does not get ratings by showing me having a patient and rational discussion about homosexuality and faith. What gets ratings are the Koshergrls who run around baring their teeth. That's a media problem not a Christianity problem.

If you don't see that as a Christianity problem then you have to deal with the negative perception of Christianity that others have of you because of the KG's out there.

'

Christian's are so passionate about their beliefs that it becomes personal instead of about God and others.
A gay person is no different than a smoker in this sense....

If you are a non-Christian homosexual, there is no reason for you NOT to be homosexual
If you are a non-Christian smoker there is not reason for you NOT to smoke.

If you are a CHRISTIAN homosexual, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire for the same sex.
If you are a CHRISTIAN smoker, you will want to be God honoring and deny yourself your desire to smoke.

BOTH are forms of defiling you body, which, as a Christian, is the temple of the Holy Spirit. (scriptural).

If we want to talk secular legalities, that is another topic entirely.

That is a non sequitur response.

 

[Derideo_Te]

No, I don't. I am using your own beliefs to expose their fallacy.

You are proposing, from what I have gathered so far, that someone can be a KG their entire life and still end up in heaven because they signed on the dotted line for your religion.

Is that not what you are saying?

What I am saying is that if you truly give your live over to God, acknowledging his sacrifice for your sins, and begin to live for him, you will have everlasting life with Him.

It's about your heart. Not your actions.

In other words you are condoning KG.

Got it.

De Te - are you referring to Koshergirl as a person on this message board, or as a "generalization"?

All of the above.

 

[BluePhantom]

If you don't see that as a Christianity problem then you have to deal with the negative perception of Christianity that others have of you because of the KG's out there.

I do see it as a problem but it is not a problem exclusive to Christianity. We see it in politics from both sides of the aisle. We see it in foreign relations. We see it in every demographic is society. It is the extremists that get the attention although they do not represent the majority view. Let me give you an example of something happening right now in Portland.

There is a small sect of local feminists who have launched what they are calling the "free flow movement". The concept is that menstruation, being a natural function of the human female body, need not be hidden. Tampons and pads, they argue, represent the repression of their femininity and their feminine power by a male-dominated, repressive society. So...they refuse to use them....they just flow freely. Because it will destroy their clothes, they usually wear skirts during their menstrual cycle so it essentially just runs down their legs onto the ground and they have no problem walking through shopping malls and going to restaurants in this condition.

Now does that represent the common view of even strong feminists? Of course not! Thankfully they are a very small minority and the movement is not gaining many adherents. But they sure get a hell of a lot of attention when you run into one. So when you see that, it creates a very bad image of the feminist movement even though it does not represent the majority view.

But I cannot control what FoxNews, MSNBC, CNN, Rush Limbaugh, Rachel Maddow, Bill Maher, Sean Hannity and the rest of them say and choose to broadcast. I have no control over that except not to contribute to their ratings.

 

[Bonzi]

No, I don't. I am using your own beliefs to expose their fallacy.

You are proposing, from what I have gathered so far, that someone can be a KG their entire life and still end up in heaven because they signed on the dotted line for your religion.

Is that not what you are saying?

What I am saying is that if you truly give your live over to God, acknowledging his sacrifice for your sins, and begin to live for him, you will have everlasting life with Him.

It's about your heart. Not your actions.

In other words you are condoning KG.

Got it.

De Te - are you referring to Koshergirl as a person on this message board, or as a "generalization"?

All of the above.

I don't know anything about a koshergirl... God is the only thing that matters....

 

[Derideo_Te]

You know absolutely nothing whatsoever about atheists.

But thanks for tacitly admitting that your God's love is conditional since you are required to do something in order to personally benefit from it.

Really? I used to be an Athiest so that is interesting....

God's love is not dependent upon our actions. If I said it, that's my error. But we are back to the other thread of freewill. God created us with freewill, so, we can choose to love him back or not. Because God is perfect and holy, only those covered in Jesus' blood (figuratively) can enter into his presence. If you reject that Jesus died for your sins, you are rejecting God's gift of salvations and eternal life. Because you have the freewill to do so.

This doesn't mean God doesn't love you.

Your child may choose to disown you, but you still love them, correct? Not all parents would....
The difference with God is that he wants everyone to come to Him because he loves them, but, many will choose their own way instead....

You made these fallacious claims about atheists;

"Athiests don't want anything to do with God because they want it their own way.
They think their way is better than God's."​

That reeks of ignorance about atheists.

Where is your evidence that atheists "want it their own way"?

Where is your evidence that atheists "think their way is better than God's"?

I can only speak to my own experience as a former Atheist.

What I mean by "their own way" is they want to live by what is "right in their own mind". It may be a self-sacrificial lifestyle, but, unless it's for the glory of God, ultimately, its as filthy rags.

An Atheist doesn't believe in God so, by reason, their (Human way) is the only way.

I don't believe there is a "doctrine of Atheism" - people that don't believe in God have various beliefs regarding the meaning of life and why we are here.... inclusive of what I used to believe....Life: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing....

What do YOU believe?

Ever heard the expression there are none so zealous as the recently converted?

That is exactly how you are coming across.

You asked...

What do YOU believe?

I DON'T believe in superstitions that were invented to control others.

If I "believe" in anything at all it is in We the People to reach a more perfect union.

My personal values have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Instead I came to them by thinking through all of the ethical situations that everyone faces and how I am going to live with myself and my nearest and dearest. I treat others they way I expect to be treated myself. I set a very high bar for myself to live bar and I expect others to rise to my level because I won't stoop to theirs.

But those are values, not beliefs.

The single most important value that I have is that I will never lie to myself about anything. I am brutally honest about myself and my shortcomings and how I deal with them when I fail to live up to my own values.

So I see no benefit to wasting my life trying to deceive myself into "believing" something for which there is no basis of "truth" whatsoever.

Your God has feet of clay. He is capricious, jealous, vain, callous, arrogant and a sociopathic mass murderer according to your own "word of God". He obviously doesn't "love" those who don't buy his snake oil because he is willing to inflict eternal punishment on his own creations.

In summary your God is insane.

I will place my "faith" in We the People because so far WTP are consistently getting better at taking care of each other than your God has managed to do over the past two thousand years.

Not sure what you consider "recently" but it has been over 13 years since I've given my life to Jesus and have been baptized.

Truth is not always what is touched, but what is experienced.
How can you deny a truth experienced by so many, and having made so powerful an impact?
How can you not even CONSIDER it, calling yourself and intellectual and open minded person?

You didn't even get past the first sentence of what I posted?