Is there anyone left who thinks marijuana should be illegal?

[MikeK]

I expect intelligent people to have the ability to educate themselves and not to be spoon fed facts. If you can't do that, it ain't my problem. I've told you where the research comes from.... the research councils within European countries.... For information: there is no 'European language'.... the research is, generally, available in English. All you have to do is find it and educate yourself.... like I did.

The British Lancet is as legitimate a source of information as is the NY Times and I have posted an excerpt from it, along with a reference URL, that directly contradicts your assertion that marijuana is medically harmful. I've also posted a link to NORML's website where you will find plenty of well-documented information that debunks all the Reefer Madness fabrications and junk science you apparently have been misled by. The fact that you continue to defend your indefensible position demonstrates just how indoctrinated by anti-marijuana propaganda you've been.

When you find yourself in a deep hole it's best to stop digging. It's understandable when a stupid person holds fast to an untenable position but when one who clearly is not stupid clings to the obvious Reefer Madness nonsense there usually is some personal issue, such as alcoholism, operating. So I suggest you give that some thought.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Heavy Marijuana Use May Damage Developing Brain In Teens, Young Adults

The legalization of marijuana will be the nail in the coffin of public education. It's on life support right now.

As I said earlier, an NZ study found that young people were 300% more likely to develop mental problems. 300%!! I am dumbfounded that some people think that's 'harmless'. I can only assume that these people are stoners.... denial, it ain't just de river in Egypt.

The study in the provided link is simply not a scientific study, and it was on 14 children mostlywith no controls. Nobody is advocating for heavy marijuana use for adolesent. But with that said I think legalized it would be easier to restict children's access. Yes of course they will still get their hands on it, but it is in every school across the nation now.

Well said, when people come at me with the "save the children!" emotional blathering it just sounds like the only reason they're against it is because their politicians and talking heads in the media are against it. I don't see any way weed could be EASIER for kids to get than under the current system.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

California Girl is correct,there is a plethora of data & studies In Europe linking marijuana use to mental illness.What she obviously doesn't know is that in the last couple of years,these claims have come under under scrutiny & recent studies have shown that the data is incomplete & inconclusive at best.Even some of the originators of these claims are saying so now.Again I'm new & cannot post the links but anyone that is google savvy can find them quickly & easily.

DR. MITCH EARLEYWINE: Alas, no. There are no new data – I want to emphasize that – this is a meta-analysis, which means it takes the studies that were already out there and tries to combine them mathematically to make sense of it all. What you’re not hearing in the media is that in fact, this is probably early-onset folks self-medicating.

You can imagine somebody who is experiencing some symptoms of psychosis, particularly folks with less access to medical care, or folks who are already a little bit paranoid because of the disorder and they’re unwilling to go to a physician. They hear their friends are using cannabis and enjoying it. They do it, too, they notice some mild improvements in their symptoms, they turn to it later when they have a psychotic break. What a surprise, [the researchers] say, “they smoked cannabis first, that’s the big issue.”

What burns my ass is that this same journal a month before had another article failing to replicate this data where we find folks with a special genetic risk and if they’re heavily involved with cannabis early in life they’re more likely to develop schizophrenia. So all this malarkey about, “oh, if you’re a genetic risk then you’re really gonna get it” isn’t showing up in other data sets. The media isn’t covering that in the least."

HERE​

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[Mr. Shaman]

California Girl is correct,there is a plethora of data & studies In Europe linking marijuana use to mental illness.What she obviously doesn't know is that in the last couple of years,these claims have come under under scrutiny & recent studies have shown that the data is incomplete & inconclusive at best.Even some of the originators of these claims are saying so now.Again I'm new & cannot post the links but anyone that is google savvy can find them quickly & easily.

So why is there such a problem posting a single to one of them?

Hell, even she knows this data is bogus, by now.....

 

[MikeK]

Yeah sure. Just like alcohol and cigs.

Do you honestly believe the drug dealers will all just close up shop?

What happened to all the bootleggers when alcohol prohibition was repealed?

The only way the "drug war" will end is if the government sells pot cheaper than the cartels. Not gonna happen.

Why must the government sell marijuana? Does the government sell alcohol or tobacco?

The way to end the drug war is to accept the obvious fact that it is counterproductive and emulate the Dutch, Swiss and Portugese approaches, all of which appear to be successfully reducing drug abuse within their respective populations.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

California Girl is correct,there is a plethora of data & studies In Europe linking marijuana use to mental illness.What she obviously doesn't know is that in the last couple of years,these claims have come under under scrutiny & recent studies have shown that the data is incomplete & inconclusive at best.Even some of the originators of these claims are saying so now.Again I'm new & cannot post the links but anyone that is google savvy can find them quickly & easily.

You are absolutely correct. All of the claims connecting marijuana to mental illness, or any kind of illness, amount to nothing more than Reefer Madness propaganda. Those who propagate such nonsense either are simply ignorant or have some unresolved personal issues that compel them to support utter fabrications.

There's a lot o' that goin'-around.....



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[Mr. Shaman]

California Girl is correct,there is a plethora of data & studies In Europe linking marijuana use to mental illness.What she obviously doesn't know is that in the last couple of years,these claims have come under under scrutiny & recent studies have shown that the data is incomplete & inconclusive at best.Even some of the originators of these claims are saying so now.Again I'm new & cannot post the links but anyone that is google savvy can find them quickly & easily.

You are absolutely correct. All of the claims connecting marijuana to mental illness, or any kind of illness, amount to nothing more than Reefer Madness propaganda. Those who propagate such nonsense either are simply ignorant or have some unresolved personal issues that compel them to support utter fabrications. The fact is there is no authoritative evidence anywhere in the annals of medical science to prove or even suggest that anyone has ever died from or was medically harmed by the normal ingestion of uncontaminated marijuana.

The following is a map to the truth:

Marijuana is far less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. Around 50,000 people die each year from alcohol poisoning. Similarly, more than 400,000 deaths each year are attributed to tobacco smoking. By comparison, marijuana is nontoxic and cannot cause death by overdose. According to the prestigious European medical journal, The Lancet, "The smoking of cannabis, even long-term, is not harmful to health. ... It would be reasonable to judge cannabis as less of a threat ... than alcohol or tobacco."

There are some extremely rare cases of some people being allergic to marijuana.Just wanted to throw that out there for an assist to your post just in case certain folks would make a mountain out of an ant hill.But I'm sure you know that some(a lot)are allergic to common sense as well.

Your Reefer Madness reference is spot on.It amazes me that so many still buy into that line of thinking & are oblivious to why something so ridiculous & outdated is still believed today.I'm just not talking about the older alldopeisthesame crowd either.Not to mention that vaporizers totally kill the tar,carcinogen argument leaving them with absolutely no ground to stand on.

This thread is about decriminalization though & heres some food for thought since some in this thread mentioned hard drugs such as heroin.Opiates also come in pill form such as oxycontin,percocet,etc which are abused daily by millions but it's ok because those forms are legal,right?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Legalize it, the war on drugs is a huge farce.

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[signelect]

No one should have to be subject to associating with people who use mind altering drugs of any kind. I agree that alcohol and tobacco are bought and paid for my the users and suppliers. We as a society have decided that we can live with the result, cancer, DWI and so on. I am not saying it is right but it is what it is. Broadening the problem won't solve anything.

I heard a budget cutting idea today that would release sex criminal that are old back into society to save money and they present no threat because they are old. Great idea, we don't pay to keep them up in prison and since they are old and aren't employable we can keep them up anyway or let them live on the streets. What kind of crazy logic is that.


Drugs don't solve problems they create them.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Legalize it, the war on drugs is a huge farce.

And the war will go away?

Yeah.....it happens.......



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[Dr.Drock]

No one should have to be subject to associating with people who use mind altering drugs of any kind. I agree that alcohol and tobacco are bought and paid for my the users and suppliers. We as a society have decided that we can live with the result, cancer, DWI and so on. I am not saying it is right but it is what it is. Broadening the problem won't solve anything.

I heard a budget cutting idea today that would release sex criminal that are old back into society to save money and they present no threat because they are old. Great idea, we don't pay to keep them up in prison and since they are old and aren't employable we can keep them up anyway or let them live on the streets. What kind of crazy logic is that.


Drugs don't solve problems they create them.

Caffeine is mind-altering, outlaw excedrin? Pepsi? Where does it stop?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I'm sure you're gonna be very sorry when you kill someone through you're fucking outrageous behavior. Seriously.... if you drive stoned, I pray you kill yourself and not some innocent person. I hate (and I mean real, cold, hard, hate) people to drive impaired. You are the scum of society. People like you kill other people.

You have zero idea what you are talking about. It's funny.

Driving while your judgement is impaired through drink or drugs is not funny. At least not to those who are impacted by such despicable behavior. I have absolutely no problem with you killing yourself through your own stupidity but, sadly, innocent people die because of people like you.

Whatta GREAT reason to ban Bubbleheads from driving!!!!

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[Mr. Shaman]

Here:

About Marijuana - NORML

Go in to your control panel and turn your Sarcasm setting to "on".

The thesis of my post was directed to California Girl. She says that there is, and I quote, "vast amounts of data...".

I simply believe that if she can post a few links to what she's been reading, it may shed some light on her position and this discussion. If she CAN'T produce a link... well, that will shed a slightly different light on her position.

I expect intelligent people to have the ability to educate themselves and not to be spoon fed facts. If you can't do that, it ain't my problem. I've told you where the research comes from.... the research councils within European countries.... For information: there is no 'European language'.... the research is, generally, available in English. All you have to do is find it and educate yourself.... like I did.

(....she screeches, while shaking an empty-spoon at AVG-JOE.)​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Since it appears that many posters are too fucking stupid to undertake quite straightforward research, here's a starting point (and it's from the US.... Harvard... so they don't even have to cope with 'foreign' shit).... the article provides further links.... sadly, some of these are not from US sources. However, since Americans are genetically no different to the rest of the human race, even we should be able to cope with the facts about MJ.

"Although the subject of the legalization of marijuana is clearly controversial, there is enough evidence to suggest that marijuana should be legalized for medical purposes. There is little doubt that the current war on drugs has not been effective and needs to be re-evaluated. Despite the amount of money and resources invested into the so-called war on drugs, drug use continues to rise and our criminal justice system becomes more overburdened. The fact that the government could better control marijuana if the government legalized it, lessen the burden on the criminal justice system, and there is enough evidence to demonstrate that the legalization of marijuana will not necessarily increase drug use and may in fact decrease it among young people, marijuana should be legalized and the current system dismantled."

cyber.law.harvard​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

That link is saying that if someone already has a mental issue that marijuana could aggravate it. Not that marijuana causes normal people to have mental issues. Thats fine, I don't want Neubarth or rdean to smoke marijuana anyway.

And the link says that research is being done with marijuana to actually treat mental disorders.

MJ can act as a trigger for mental illness, particularly in young people. Research in NZ suggests that young people smoking MJ are 3 times more likely to develop mental problems. That's 300% more likely.

This data is (also)
BOGUS!!!​

"Apparently a correlation between marijuana use and psychosis doesn't necessarily mean that marijuana caused the psychosis. Many of the researchers made this clear in their findings, but reporters left it out."

New Study: Marijuana Does Not Cause Psychosis, Lung Damage, or Skin Cancerhttp://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy/2007/aug/02/new_study_marijuana_does_not_cau​

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[signelect]

I think that if ALL people will assume responsibility for their actions while under the influence of any mind altering chemical, then go for it. You know that won't happen. We have people who go out and willfully drink and then kill someone with their car and claim it wasn't their fault. Lets call it what it is, murder and punish accordingly. So if you get high on pot or coke or any of the others and make a mistake that harms others pay the price with none of this its not my fault BS.

How about them apples.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I think that if ALL people will assume responsibility for their actions while under the influence of any mind altering chemical, then go for it. You know that won't happen. We have people who go out and willfully drink and then kill someone with their car and claim it wasn't their fault. Lets call it what it is, murder and punish accordingly. So if you get high on pot or coke or any of the others and make a mistake that harms others pay the price with none of this its not my fault BS.

How about them apples.

Well said, doesn't really address legalizing it but drunk driving and killing someone is the same to me as shooting someone in the face.

However I think the limit is too LOW, bring it back to .1 or something.

 

[MikeK]

If I believed that, I'd be on board. But I think it's too late for that. "Unlicensed dealers" have, and will continue to have, control of the market. The govt. can't do jack about it now. How could they do better in the future? Esp. if the "war funding" is cut off.

You've slammed the door shut on reason. Again I ask you, what happened to all the bootleggers when alcohol prohibition was repealed? When liquor became legally available to adults in licensed liquor stores, in certified pure form and for competitive prices, who needed bootleggers?

Of course there were (and are) some who will purchase booze legally and sell it to kids at twice the price, but the law deals harshly with such individuals so there aren't many of them.

While there still are health and various social problems with alcohol the problems were significantly worse during Prohibition. So legalizing drugs and controlling their use in an intelligent manner won't solve all the problems but it will eliminate the worst of them.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Legalize it? Yes. Beneficial to the people as a whole? Don't believe so.

I hate how people tell me weed doesn't damage them, then I see people who smoke weed a lot over a few years and they act stupid.

....Kinda like those folks who lived in a bottle, huh??

BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!​

"Marijuana produces immediate, temporary changes in thoughts, perceptions, and information processing. The cognitive process most clearly affected by marijuana is short-term memory. In laboratory studies, subjects under the influence of marijuana have no trouble remembering things they learned previously. However, they display diminished capacity to learn and recall new information. This diminishment only lasts for the duration of the intoxication. There is no convincing evidence that heavy long-term marijuana use permanently impairs memory or other cognitive functions."

Myth: Marijuana Impairs Memory and Cognitionhttp://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#memory​

....As-opposed-to alcohol.....that does PERMANENT DAMAGE!!!​

 

[editec]

A thing to keep in mind while we debate over little things IF it's legalized is that seemingly at least we're all in agreement that it should be legal.

Now hopefully when the current crop of 70+ year old bags dies off the group of older citizens who replaces them has the common sense to hold our politicians accountable for this disaster.

We'll always have to battle the super religious southeast on this stuff, but that can be overcome.

You haven't heard?

The retirees are becoming THE MARIJUANA GENERATION, Drock.

A whole lot of them who'd smoked for fun back in their day are returning to smoke, now, for various medical conditions that marjuania is ideally suited to counteract.

Seriously if you watch the paper to see who is getting busted for possession, you'll see more and more middle aged to retirment age people ponying up those outrageous fines for simple possession.

This beneficial plant will be legalized when it ceases to be a valuable litmus test for authoritarians seeking to establish one's political correctness, and not before.

It's continued illegality is a kind of full employment system for cops, lawyers, judges and prison guards, as well as being a handy cash cow for the criminal justic system.

The continued prohibition against marijuana is really nothing more than a human rights violation.