Is the Stock Market Legitimate????

Discussion in 'Politics' started by kyzr, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. kyzr
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    kyzr Gold Member

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    I can't help thinking that the stock market is a rigged game. Its not just that the unscrupulous CEOs and their assorted white collar criminal cohorts can do just about whatever they want. Nope. Its cases like Goldman-Sachs as an example.

    They get a $500m fine (without any wrongdoing?!) then in order to pay the fine they could simply use massive leverage to sell the market short, take the sucker's 401k money, and then pay the fine with bozo money. What a country.

    Many of my contacts are saying that they are not going to get burned again by the stock market crooks. Hence today's poll question.

    If the Feds wanted to do something about it, they would prohibit short-selling and derivatives, only allowing capital raising (job creating) long term investments.

    I'm not getting back in until the SEC levels the playing field for small investors.
     
  2. Flopper
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    Flopper Gold Member

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    If by legitimate you mean a fair market where buyers and seller can be confident that they are getting a fair price for stocks based on free market bids, the answer is yes. But if by legitimate you mean getting fair and impartial advice, then maybe, maybe not. Anytime you rely on investment advice you got to be very careful. If by legitimate you mean a market, where dealers and corporations make full disclosure of the facts, free of insider trading and brokers working in the best interest of their customers, yes it is legitimate but there is now and always have been a few bad apples. But if you use common sense, make your own investment decisions, diversify your investments and invest for long haul you should be ok.
     
  3. The Rabbi
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    The Rabbi Diamond Member

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    Your understanding of the stock market is rivaled only by your understanding of the role of short selling.
    Both suck.
     
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  4. kyzr
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    kyzr Gold Member

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    Prove my view of short-sellers wrong. I can drive down the value of any stock given enough money. Once its down I buy it back and cash-in stealing the small investors' money. The FEDS NEED TO BAN NAKED SHORT-SELLING. I'M OUT UNTIL THEY DO.
     
  5. Mr. Shaman
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    Mr. Shaman Senior Member

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    Whew!!!!

    You surely DON'T sound like someone who rode the '90s Wave!!!! :rolleyes:

    My first indication, there was something Not Right about the Market, was during the first Gulf War; during the Daddy Bush years.

    At that time....due to all the support he got, thru the CIA....Saddam Hussein (actually) thought he was a member of the Big-Boys/Big-Oil Club (much like present-day White-wingers who think they actually stand-a-chance of becoming a 1%er), and decided to move into Kuwait & strengthen his oil-"holdings". After all....what did He need to worry-about????

    At one point, during that War (after BUSHCO had decided they needed to snap-the-reins/pull-a-Noriega, on Hussein)......the word went-out that Hussein had been killed! The Stock Market went-thru-the-ceiling; HUGE gains!!! Approximately 24-hours-later, it was revealed Hussein's death was merely a rumor. Quite-expectedly, The Market retreated....and, may have dipped, a bit (from it's pre-Death value). It was at THAT point I'd recognized that....a stock's value had nothing-to-do (typically) with the value of that stock's product/service!!!

    During the '90s (when pretty-much everyone decided The Market was THE place to park their savings), too-many people also thought their broker was their friend.....and, proceeded to make their broker extremely-rich!!

    If you LOVE money....if you're OBSESSED with money....enough where you're willing to spend (nearly) every-waking-HOUR monitoring stock-values/The Market....JUMP!!

    If you're not.....Stay OUT of The Market.....'cause the Vultures/Brokers are already in-the-trees....waiting for the NEXT Wave o' amateurs/suckers to jump-back-into The Game!!!!

     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  6. Mr. Shaman
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    Mr. Shaman Senior Member

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    Gee, Rabbi......I thought you were some kind o' $uper-Capitali$t!!!!

    Why do you HATE Capitali$m???!!!!!

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. Mr. Shaman
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    Mr. Shaman Senior Member

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    If you've got the time (i.e. the better-part-of-the-day), give day-trading a shot!

    You won't make big-money, fast.....but, you can show a small-profit, daily. Then, ya' gotta decide whether-or-not the time spent/lost was worth it.​
     
  8. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    The game is criminally rigged sometimes.

    Meanwhile the market is generally structured to suit the needs of the insiders, to the detriment of the retail investors.

    Periodically conspiracies are uncovered and then, if the conspirators are connected, they'll get a fines, as in the recent cases of Goldman Sacs setting up its own customers by touting bonds they'd STRUCTURED to fail.

    Or, if the conspirators have no political suck, and their actions have been obviously and undeniably criminal, then they (usually) get a slap on the wrist.

    History is replete with examples of the market (or at least some elements of it) being manipulated by insiders and secrets cabals of movers and shakers working in unison (usually through cut outs) to control individual stocks or even whole sectors of the market.

    Major investors manipulate the market through inside trading, rumor mongering and stampeding the herd.

    While I do not doubt that retail investors can make money on the market, I also think there's damned little they do about it if they get caught up in one of these swindles.

    Generally speaking, I think it safe to suggest that the small investors are the last people to ride the bull and the first people to feed the bear.

    Playing the market -- even one that is not fixed! -- is about having the right information at the right moment and the retail investor just isn't in that information loop.

    And so we just witnessed a fairly good example of that as retail investors lost 30-50% of their 401K nest eggs, while so many obvious information rich insiders made billions sellling short.

    I think it's no overstatement to suggest that the insiders are generally not working with the same public information that the retail investors were working with.

    Insider trading, while theoretically a crime, is really der rigueur in the world of financial investing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  9. Mr. Shaman
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    Mr. Shaman Senior Member

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    .....Especially when it comes to IPOs!!!!!!!!!!!

    :mad:

    (Then, again......that's where Brokers make the BIG-buck$.....making sure preferred-customers are alway$ at the-front-o'-the-line.)​
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2010
  10. The Rabbi
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    The Rabbi Diamond Member

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    Short sellers provide a counter measure to longs that are woefully misinformed about the value of their stock.
    You do not have enough money to drive down the price of any stock. No one does. But you might as well complain about entities driving up the value of stocks in a pump n dump scheme.
     

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