Is the skinny repeal of Obamacare worse for the country than nothing at all?

[bendog]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

 

[martybegan]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

Are you talking about Medicare or Medicaid? Because people often confuse the two. Most of the butt hurt is because people think Old people will lose their health insurance, and that is Medicare. medicaid is basically health care for those who can't afford health care, which has been around a long time, and gives lie to the whole "people will die" thing about repealing Obamacare.

 

[bendog]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

Are you talking about Medicare or Medicaid? Because people often confuse the two. Most of the butt hurt is because people think Old people will lose their health insurance, and that is Medicare. medicaid is basically health care for those who can't afford health care, which has been around a long time, and gives lie to the whole "people will die" thing about repealing Obamacare.

Ryan's goal is to make Medicaid block granted and Medicare a voucher program. In the Senate, Collins, Murkowski, Portman, Heller, Coker, the lady from WV, and probably others really cannot vote to block grant Medicaid. Medicaid expanded under Obamacare to cover something like 20 million more than before Obamacare. Then there's the money going to subsidies, but that's another question.

But if they just leave most everything in place, beyond repealing the mandate, they don't really change much. I think that bipartisan they could probably kill the mandate, raise some money to cover preexisting in a separate insurance pool.

More importantly, it just doesn't cost that much money to insure well people from everyday stuff. And well people can shop for bargains in stuff like physicals and having corn or toenail removed. Eventually we all get cancer or have a stroke or something. That costs money, and you can't really shop for chemo. IMO, at some point sane people need to stop thinking that Ayn Rand has a model for healthcare or that do we really want to have everyone on Medicare where the only cost control is 24 doctors in Washington deciding how much a knee replacement is worth/

 

[OldLady]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

I heard that in a late night vote they did NOT pass the repeal bill. Now they're working on a "skinny repeal."
One of the next votes, likely Wednesday, will be on a version of the Obamacare repeal bill that passed the Senate and the House in 2015 but was vetoed by President Barack Obama.
The plan after those two votes is for senators to proceed to votes on a series of amendments to create the “skinny” repeal, which is a watered-down version of repeal with nothing to replace it.
The goal would be to eliminate Obamacare's individual mandate penalty, the employer mandate penalty, and the tax on medical devices —items that Senate leaders think might be able to get 50 votes.
Senate opens debate on health care, votes down repeal and replace

 

[Siete]

1 weak vote and a UUUUUUUUUUUGE WIN barely SQUEAKS BY TO fucking TALK ABOUT IT. .... SEVEN YEARS LATER.


if those stupid bitches spent as much time working for the good of the country as they did pissing in their pants and never getting their socks wet I would faint and fall over.

F'em.

 

[martybegan]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

Are you talking about Medicare or Medicaid? Because people often confuse the two. Most of the butt hurt is because people think Old people will lose their health insurance, and that is Medicare. medicaid is basically health care for those who can't afford health care, which has been around a long time, and gives lie to the whole "people will die" thing about repealing Obamacare.

Ryan's goal is to make Medicaid block granted and Medicare a voucher program. In the Senate, Collins, Murkowski, Portman, Heller, Coker, the lady from WV, and probably others really cannot vote to block grant Medicaid. Medicaid expanded under Obamacare to cover something like 20 million more than before Obamacare. Then there's the money going to subsidies, but that's another question.

But if they just leave most everything in place, beyond repealing the mandate, they don't really change much. I think that bipartisan they could probably kill the mandate, raise some money to cover preexisting in a separate insurance pool.

More importantly, it just doesn't cost that much money to insure well people from everyday stuff. And well people can shop for bargains in stuff like physicals and having corn or toenail removed. Eventually we all get cancer or have a stroke or something. That costs money, and you can't really shop for chemo. IMO, at some point sane people need to stop thinking that Ayn Rand has a model for healthcare or that do we really want to have everyone on Medicare where the only cost control is 24 doctors in Washington deciding how much a knee replacement is worth/

Something has to be done, and it's amazing that dems were so gung ho to try Obamacare without really knowing what it would do, and are now crying that "WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN" if even a smidge of reform is tried.

If single payer champions were honest they would have tried this in a single, mid-sized to small State already. that they can't get it done at that scale means it will never freaking work full scale.

 

[PredFan]

I hope they get nothing done. The 2nd best course of action is to let 0bamacare crash and burn. Then slap that shit right on the democrats and 0bama where it belongs, all the way through the 2018 mid-terms. Then do the right thing, the best thing, repeal it fully, and put in free market solutions.

 

[easyt65]

Lose health care insurance by letting the ACA collapse or lose it by the GOP voting to eliminate the ACA?

If Barry and his Dims would not have destroyed the previous existing health care insurance system, lied his ass off about the ACA, then rammed the majority-opposed ACA down the throats of the American people we would not be faced with such appealing choices....

 

[whitehall]

If able bodied young people are subsidized with health insurance where does medicaid come in? Nobody is ever denied emergency services regardless of their ability to pay and the abomination of Obamacare forces young people to pay for health issues like breast cancer for men that they will never use. There will always be politically motivated mostly ignorant people who become hysterical and blame republicans if social programs are redone because that's the way the propaganda works.

 

[Rocko]

I hope they get nothing done. The 2nd best course of action is to let 0bamacare crash and burn. Then slap that shit right on the democrats and 0bama where it belongs, all the way through the 2018 mid-terms. Then do the right thing, the best thing, repeal it fully, and put in free market solutions.

Conservatives will never have 60 votes to do HC the right way. There's more of a chance that single payer becomes law of the land.

 

[Siete]

I hope they get nothing done. The 2nd best course of action is to let 0bamacare crash and burn. Then slap that shit right on the democrats and 0bama where it belongs, all the way through the 2018 mid-terms. Then do the right thing, the best thing, repeal it fully, and put in free market solutions.

typical RW horseshit ... too weak to repeal healthcare IN 7 YEARS so pass the responsibility back to the dems..

stfu about healthcare, youre noT going to do a goddamn thing about it but bitch .... ENOUGH ALREADY


ACA is here to stay... its not going anywhere ... its the LAW of the land .. its too popular to fail

suck this ......


Affordable Care Act Gains Majority Approval for First Time

• 55% approve, up from 42% right after 2016 election
• 40% want to keep law but make significant changes
• 30% want to repeal; 26% want to keep law as it is

deal with it kiddies ... Trump fucked you AGAIN.

SUCKERS.

 

[bendog]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

Are you talking about Medicare or Medicaid? Because people often confuse the two. Most of the butt hurt is because people think Old people will lose their health insurance, and that is Medicare. medicaid is basically health care for those who can't afford health care, which has been around a long time, and gives lie to the whole "people will die" thing about repealing Obamacare.

Ryan's goal is to make Medicaid block granted and Medicare a voucher program. In the Senate, Collins, Murkowski, Portman, Heller, Coker, the lady from WV, and probably others really cannot vote to block grant Medicaid. Medicaid expanded under Obamacare to cover something like 20 million more than before Obamacare. Then there's the money going to subsidies, but that's another question.

But if they just leave most everything in place, beyond repealing the mandate, they don't really change much. I think that bipartisan they could probably kill the mandate, raise some money to cover preexisting in a separate insurance pool.

More importantly, it just doesn't cost that much money to insure well people from everyday stuff. And well people can shop for bargains in stuff like physicals and having corn or toenail removed. Eventually we all get cancer or have a stroke or something. That costs money, and you can't really shop for chemo. IMO, at some point sane people need to stop thinking that Ayn Rand has a model for healthcare or that do we really want to have everyone on Medicare where the only cost control is 24 doctors in Washington deciding how much a knee replacement is worth/

Something has to be done, and it's amazing that dems were so gung ho to try Obamacare without really knowing what it would do, and are now crying that "WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN" if even a smidge of reform is tried.

If single payer champions were honest they would have tried this in a single, mid-sized to small State already. that they can't get it done at that scale means it will never freaking work full scale.

I think the dems knew what Obamacare should have done. The outline was in Krugman's Conscience of a Liberal, which is a play on Goldwater's conscience of a conservative, which is still a good read, btw.

The proposal was to hike taxes on the wealthy and passive investment to provide each American w/o insurance enough to be on Medicare, but let them buy insurance competitively. The premise was that Medicare has the lowest overhead, so ultimately Medicare would be the logical choice, and we'd be on our way to single payer, which is the dems view of the promised land, and has been since the 1930s. Basically, the dems got wet feet on really soaking the rich, because the Great Recession was still in full swing.

Paul Rand's dream is doing away with Medicare except as a voucher that will not be enough to cover really sick people. Reagan opposed Medicare because it gave an entitlement to people who really didn't need one. But he was never against covering those who really needed it.

Neither one is, imo, very realistic. I'd rather shop for an internist to check by bloodpressure, cholesterol and possible cancer, and even a arthritis doc to monitor my meds and blood levels. I don't need the gummit to help me decide what treatment I need. But Paul Rand is trying to fuck us all with his annotated copy of Atlas Shrugged when we get cancer or something. So are the Kochs

 

[martybegan]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

Are you talking about Medicare or Medicaid? Because people often confuse the two. Most of the butt hurt is because people think Old people will lose their health insurance, and that is Medicare. medicaid is basically health care for those who can't afford health care, which has been around a long time, and gives lie to the whole "people will die" thing about repealing Obamacare.

Ryan's goal is to make Medicaid block granted and Medicare a voucher program. In the Senate, Collins, Murkowski, Portman, Heller, Coker, the lady from WV, and probably others really cannot vote to block grant Medicaid. Medicaid expanded under Obamacare to cover something like 20 million more than before Obamacare. Then there's the money going to subsidies, but that's another question.

But if they just leave most everything in place, beyond repealing the mandate, they don't really change much. I think that bipartisan they could probably kill the mandate, raise some money to cover preexisting in a separate insurance pool.

More importantly, it just doesn't cost that much money to insure well people from everyday stuff. And well people can shop for bargains in stuff like physicals and having corn or toenail removed. Eventually we all get cancer or have a stroke or something. That costs money, and you can't really shop for chemo. IMO, at some point sane people need to stop thinking that Ayn Rand has a model for healthcare or that do we really want to have everyone on Medicare where the only cost control is 24 doctors in Washington deciding how much a knee replacement is worth/

Something has to be done, and it's amazing that dems were so gung ho to try Obamacare without really knowing what it would do, and are now crying that "WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN" if even a smidge of reform is tried.

If single payer champions were honest they would have tried this in a single, mid-sized to small State already. that they can't get it done at that scale means it will never freaking work full scale.

I think the dems knew what Obamacare should have done. The outline was in Krugman's Conscience of a Liberal, which is a play on Goldwater's conscience of a conservative, which is still a good read, btw.

The proposal was to hike taxes on the wealthy and passive investment to provide each American w/o insurance enough to be on Medicare, but let them buy insurance competitively. The premise was that Medicare has the lowest overhead, so ultimately Medicare would be the logical choice, and we'd be on our way to single payer, which is the dems view of the promised land, and has been since the 1930s. Basically, the dems got wet feet on really soaking the rich, because the Great Recession was still in full swing.

Paul Rand's dream is doing away with Medicare except as a voucher that will not be enough to cover really sick people. Reagan opposed Medicare because it gave an entitlement to people who really didn't need one. But he was never against covering those who really needed it.

Neither one is, imo, very realistic. I'd rather shop for an internist to check by bloodpressure, cholesterol and possible cancer, and even a arthritis doc to monitor my meds and blood levels. I don't need the gummit to help me decide what treatment I need. But Paul Rand is trying to fuck us all with his annotated copy of Atlas Shrugged when we get cancer or something. So are the Kochs

EVERY Dem proposal involves taxing the wealthy "a bit more" and hitting corporations and investments. EVERY Dem proposal involves massive government overreach into whatever they are trying to control or direct. They want single payer because they know once it's in it will NEVER be gone and another doubling of the scope of the federal government will occur.

I'd rather deal with free market zealots than big government zealots, because at least with the free market ones, the market and the Individual State governments are in play to get something done. Once the feds take it over, pffft, any form of control by the people is gone, and it goes into the hands of the bureaucrats.

What is happening to Trump and his inability to get agencies to do his bidding is probably the best proof of the so called "deep state" that one could have.

 

[AntonToo]

Something has to be done, and it's amazing that dems were so gung ho to try Obamacare without really knowing what it would do, and are now crying that "WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN" if even a smidge of reform is tried.

Get the fukattahere Democrats have no problem fixing what is broken, but Republicans can't get off the politico REPEAL schtik that breaks a lot of what DOES work.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

 

[martybegan]

Something has to be done, and it's amazing that dems were so gung ho to try Obamacare without really knowing what it would do, and are now crying that "WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN" if even a smidge of reform is tried.

Get the fukattahere Democrats have no problem fixing what is broken, but Republicans can't get off the politico REPEAL schtik that breaks a lot of what DOES work.

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

 

[AntonToo]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

LOL how the hell is higher deductibles and collapsing individual market "a huge win"?

When people don't have to get insurance untill they are sick, guess what - a lot WON'T. So the insurance pools will be smaller and sicker which will explode the premiums, which in turn will further depress the market and send the individual market into a death spiral.

It's a fucking loss.

 

[AntonToo]

Something has to be done, and it's amazing that dems were so gung ho to try Obamacare without really knowing what it would do, and are now crying that "WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN" if even a smidge of reform is tried.

Get the fukattahere Democrats have no problem fixing what is broken, but Republicans can't get off the politico REPEAL schtik that breaks a lot of what DOES work.

Implement single payer is not the same as "fix"

And so far nothing worked for me, my premiums went up, I got shunted to a high deductible plan from a PPO, so I liked my plan and didn't get to keep my plan.

Who besides Bernie and a handful of Californians is pushing single payer?

Democrats have been clear on this - ACA has many shortcomings that need to be fixed and they will work with Republicans if they can get constructive and drop the REPEAL bullshit.

 

[bendog]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

LOL how the hell is higher deductibles and collapsing individual market "a huge win"?

When people don't have to get insurance untill they are sick, guess what - a lot WON'T. So the insurance pools will be smaller and sicker which will explode the premiums.

It's a fucking loss.

It just means we have to spend more deficit dollars to prop the thing up, and yeah, I see that as a loss. And that's why I started the thread, basically. Neither Obamacare nor Ayn Rand care is gonna get it done. But remember, Obama got not only a landslide mandate in 08 to do universal care, America gave his 60 senators to do it. That's only happened one other time since WWII. 1964.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The Gop passed with Pence's vote to open debate. I am not really sure why McCain voted for it. They won't have 49 votes out of 52 to gut Medicaid. So I think in the end they can vote to end the mandate. THAT will give Trump something to say "I won." Of course it changes nothing substantively about the HC markets.

McCain correctly pointed out that the way to do this thing is negotiate in committee and on the floor to get 60 votes to pass something that everyone has some skin in so they have to make it work. I realize the vote keeps Trump off the Turtle, but I'm not sure I see it getting the country closer the end zone, as McCain sees the endzone.

That changes nothing?

Lol

The mandate is the basis for the whole law. If he successfully reverses the mandate it is a win. A huge win for all freedom loving Americans.

LOL how the hell is higher deductibles and collapsing individual market "a huge win"?

When people don't have to get insurance untill they are sick, guess what - a lot WON'T. So the insurance pools will be smaller and sicker which will explode the premiums, which in turn will further depress the market and send the individual market into a death spiral.

It's a fucking loss.

The mandate FORCES expensive coverage on EVERYONE. Half the country only NEEDS a basic catastrophic policy.

Fuck the mandate