Debate Now Is the Cultural Paradigm Shifting Along with the Demographic Changes?

Discussion in 'Debate Now - Structured Discussion Forum' started by EvilEyeFleegle, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. EvilEyeFleegle
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    EvilEyeFleegle Gold Member

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    Well..I don't know about that. People being the contrary critters that we are. If I were to guess...The middle..those moderates that are left..will clump together and form a new Repubican party for a new 'right'...a more extreme Left will coalesce..and a 'rump' third party...will be the fate of the remnant of the alt/right.

    I don't see one party rule..not for any long term. The Democratic party has its own existential crisis going on, as well.

    Interesting times.
     
  2. Correll
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    Correll Platinum Member

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    The dems only crisis is that they got too arrogant a little too fast.


    Give them another 10 years of demographic shift, and Hillary would have won.


    The middle, the moderates, won't be able to stop the Left, with it's domination of the Means of Information and Culture.


    Any fracturing of the Right will just make things smoother for the Left.
     
  3. Dogmaphobe
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    Dogmaphobe Platinum Member

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    The paradigm shift I have observed over the last few decades is that the left as fueled by minorities, has moved away from liberalism as it's guiding principle and towards a form of authoritarianism based upon race. Meanwhile, the only people willing to stand up for western liberalism against the onslaught of Islam seem to be conservatives.
     
  4. EvilEyeFleegle
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    EvilEyeFleegle Gold Member

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    I had to think about your post a bit. I don't think what you are describing is a cultural paradigm shift. I don't think that the left is fueled by minority's..'form of authoritarianism based on race'? If I interpreted that correctly..you are postulating a Socialist/Fascist ideology? I only get that because that seems to be the prevailing Alt/right narrative. I reject utterly the current Alt/right narrative that Socialism and Fascism are the same thing. It's absurd..to me. I think what many on the extreme right are going for is 'Totalitarian Socialist Dictatorship'. Which is something else entirely..while in effect it becomes something very similar, the philosophy is quite different.

    Then you speak of the 'onslaught of Islam'..What onslaught? One could make a case for Europe being in trouble..mainly because of its habit of ghettoizing immigrants instead of assimilating them. Unlike the US tradition. Which, BTW..is why our incidence of cultural conflicts are so low. But there is no jihad in our streets--yes..there are some lone wolf attacks--but nothing that could be called an 'onslaught'.

    It appears as though you are couching your argument in 'crusade-like' terms, The Cons are the Paladins of Christianity and the Right/White way of life. The Left are the Evil Appeasers who would sell our culture down the river for Political Correctness. Have I got it right?

    Well..no surprise..I reject your premise. Not everyone on the left is a slave to political correctness..and most of America..Regardless of political position..hates terrorists.

    The Extreme Left and the Extreme Right..are not emblematic of the Cultural norms..or except grossly..representative of our cultural paradigm.

    Yes..Socialism is increasingly acceptable to Millennials..even though most of them haven't a clue as to what it exactly is. Thus--probably a shift..of course..our country was founded and settled by many who would, by today's standards, be considered socialist..or even communist. so, a shift forward..or a swing back?

    I think that there is more to what I mean..by paradigm shift..than just our politics..or our culture wars.


    I'm thinking of things like..the increasing acceptance of gays...the fading of religion as a influence...the move to a bi-lingual society.....the decline of the two parent family....the up-tick in distrust of authority of all sorts. What effect technology has. The effect of social media--both on interpersonal relationships and upon information dissemination.

    The duel effects of increased access to information..and the increasing contempt many have for education and intellectual pursuits.

    Is what many see as the 'dumbing down of America' going to lead to a permanent technical meritocracy?

    And..how much of any of this is due to..or exacerbated by..the demographic shift from White majority to White minority?

    The demographic shift from Boomer to Millenial--and beyond?

    Thank you for your post..it helped me clarify my thoughts a bit.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  5. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Except that the United States has never been 'liberal' in the sense of there being no cultural boundaries or restraints. We started out with a libertarian (small "L") government but a fairly conservative society. The traditional family was the very bedrock of civilization and shared responsibilities between families were accomplished via social contract. Men were expected to work for a living and to provide for their families. Only the worst sort would not do so. Children were expected to be courteous and obedient to their elders. Only the most disrespectable of ladies did not dress modestly and refrain from going to saloons or using profanity.

    America was a nation of voluntary laws and while everybody knew his/her place and what was expected of him/her, there were no boundaries to what somebody was allowed to achieve within the law.

    The few places where anarchy and survival of the toughest and strongest was pretty much the rule soon wore thin with Americans and such places either became tamed or ceased to exist. And so did the little theocracies that simply traded the religious intolerance of Europe for their own brand of intolerance. All those little theocracies had voluntarily dissolved themselves by the end of the Eighteenth Century and no new ones took their place.

    And yes the culture has changed with us making mistakes, getting it wrong, learning how to be better, and regrouping until we got it mostly right.

    But the cultural changes happening now are something quite different from that.

    It began on a smaller scale in the 1960's in which thousands of young Americans tuned out, zoned out, and dropped out of conventional American culture. It was the first generation ever to completely reject the values and mores of the one that preceded it.

    And the modern day 'liberalism', more vague and yet more rigid and intolerant than the culture of the early Americans, is gradually tearing down American heritage, rewriting its history, and destroying our culture.

    Will there be time and enough push back to stop that? I don't know.
     
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  6. Natural Citizen
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    Natural Citizen Gold Member

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    First of all threads like these serve one purpose. Divide and Conquer. Umkay?

    Secondly, the only Majority which should be of any significant discussion and critical concern is a Rule by Omnipotent Majority scenario. Now, what does that mean? It means that the Individual (regardless of their race or cultural background), and any group of Individuals (again, regardless of their race or cultural background) composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority.

    America is a haven for all religions and cultures and points of view. And it is not necessary that they agree in everything. It is only necessary that we all agree that we should all be free from government-over-man. Free from Rule by the Omnipotent Majority.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  7. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    I doubt it. There will be aspects of the culture that change. We'll have greater variety and acceptance of superficial things like entertainment genres, foods and fashions. The culture itself won't be materially different for the core cultural values of the U.S. -- freedom of opportunity, political freedom, and economic satisfaction -- are embraced every bit as much by whites as by non-whites. The core values that make the U.S. different from other Western democracies don't depend on the race of the citizenry.

    If by "old values" you mean social values the U.S. citizenry predominantly held in the middle 20th century and before, no. If you instead mean the sorts of things to which I referred above, obviously, yes, for the adoption of those values is already what we observe happening among non-whites. About the only cultural thing non-whites don't cotton to is the inculcation of the explicit and tacit primacy of whites and whiteness.

    Of course it is. America is defined by a set of geographic borders and a constitution and corresponding body of laws derived from it. The country was designed not as a monolith but rather as a fluid nation that evolves with its citizenry. That flexibility is one of the things that makes the U.S. different from all "superpowers" that preceded it. It is the one thing that may allow America to retain its global primacy when faced with challenges that toppled other "superpowers" that preceded it.
     
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  8. Two Thumbs
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    As we move towards a "White Minority" country will our cultural paradigm shift significantly? I don't think our culture will change that much. There will be more of one thing and less of another. What we will see is a decline in the use of English and an increase in the various latin dialects. many of them refuse to learn proper English now, so most won't bother later and those that speak English only will be abused.

    Or...will the prevailing mainstream culture prove strong enough to shape the new demographics to conform to the "old" values? Minorities are not known to hold onto values like; family and country. Since most of them are leftists, selfishness will increase dramatically.

    Is a non-white majority America still "America"? In name only.



    seem to be contradicting myself :D
     
  9. EvilEyeFleegle
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    EvilEyeFleegle Gold Member

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    Lame..sorry..but just..lame. Your parade of prejudice is noted..and rejected. You do seem to be of two minds about the matter? This was not really meant to be a political thread..where you can air your tired views..that minorities are lazy, have little or no family values, etc. You did address the debate though...even though I find your borderline racist views abhorrent..and worst of all...untrue.

    I will address the language change that you posit...English is, and will continue to be the language of our country..I think we may become even more bilingual..Spanish being the other language...I do believe that that will be a regional phenomenon--as it is now.

    I suspect that most of America is 'leftist' to you..sorry for your luck, Chuck.

    My opinion..as long as the Constitution is the basis of our rule of law and as long as our Democratic process is unimpeded..we will be America. Just because our populace gets browner...does not mean that it is the end of our country...the culture will change..but...it always does, over time.
     
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  10. EvilEyeFleegle
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    EvilEyeFleegle Gold Member

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    In the main, I agree with you. Thank-you for a cogent and well thought out response.
    The bold: Yeah..but that is a huge source of friction--perhaps the biggest single flash point in our culture--how do you think it will resolve---Blood and tears? Or...just the gradual, peaceful 'changing of the guard? Both? White Separatist enclaves?

    Now, politically--I think that the population will continue to shift Left, while the top 10%---those who 'rule'--will continue to tend Right--how will this dichotomy be resolved? Is this the last gasp..right now..with Trump, Bannon and the alt/right?
    For sure, economically---White people will dominate for a long time..I think that irrelevant to the culture, as a whole..they will just have to ride the river with everyone else...or will they?

    I believe that, as you pointed out, we are unique in that, as a nation, and as a culture, we can encompass what in other nations would be revolution--and make it our own. I'm old enough to remember the 1950's--and to remember looking around--in the 1980's and suddenly realizing..really getting it--that we had profoundly changed--and were still changing.
    We did it in the 1960's---and we are in the process of doing it in the 21st century. IMO

    Again, thank for taking the time.
     

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