Debate Now Comparison of two expressions about America: DJT's and CK's

Discussion in 'Debate Now - Structured Discussion Forum' started by usmbguest5318, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. usmbguest5318

    usmbguest5318 Gold Member

    Jan 1, 2017
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    In a recent thread, I discussed Colin Kaepernick's patriotism. This thread's purpose is to compare and contrast the patriotism of two specific messages: one from Colin and one from Donald. The two expressions for consideration in this thread are:
    Now, there is no way to construe the first expression to mean anything other than what it says explicitly and what it necessarily implies. There is no way I'd consider the implication of that statement to be an expression of patriotism. Furthermore, it is all encompassing; that is, it implies there is nothing good, great about America. All that slogan is is a politically opportune (correct) way to say tacitly, implicitly "America sucks."

    We know furthermore that the scope of Donald's message is all encompassing because of his remarks during his campaign and presidency. There's very little about America with which he's not found fault -- healthcare, the military, Congress, specific members of Congress, the media,

    The meaning of the second expression is clear too and it indicates what is noted in the "Colin's Message" bullet above. We know that's what Colin's kneeling during the national anthem means because that's what he said he meant by doing it. (click the link) The scope of Colin's message is limited. The man takes exception with one and only existential aspect of America. It's a "statement" that says tacitly "America sucks in this one way."

    If one considers the patriotism of the two statements, it's absurd to think a general "America sucks" statement is patriotic and one that says "America sucks in one dimension" is less patriotic or even not patriotic.

    Then there's the matter of the relationship between patriotism and risk. What makes one's expression patriotic is that one is using one's voice to advocate for improving something one sees as wrong with one's country, and one's advocating in a public way whereby one jeopardizes something of current or future value to oneself.

    It's hard to see what Trump put at risk by implying that "America sucks."
    In contrast, we know Kaepernick risked: his job.

    Thread rules:
    1. Discuss, compare, contrast only the two expressions noted at the outset of this post: Donald's Message and Colin's Message.
    2. You may not in this thread post about anything other than those two messages.

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