Is Taxation, Socialism?

[Jack Fate]

To your first point..defense spending and our present military are very socialistic.

To your second point..the war on poverty has been in a very large part sucessful. What it meant to be "poor" when I was growing up in this country..is vastly different what it means to be "poor" today. More "minorities" hold more high paying positions, and positions in government then at any time in our nation's history. That's a pretty good benchmark.

To your third point, see above. There are more people with college degrees as well.

It's silly to say Socialism is a failure. It's also silly to say that a government should become totally socialistic. My general preference..and it seems that this is become the world's preference, is a blend of the two. What's the right mixture?

That's still anyone's guess.

Then government as a whole is socialistic.

As far as welfare goes, the numbers are on my side on this. 2008 72% of black kids were born w/o a father around.

And you still can not work your way through college any more.

True that! Week before last my son and I went to a two day student/parent orientation at his university for him to enroll in his freshman year. In one of the sessions put on by the finacial folks at the school, they made it clear that while a student can certainly work and help pay for their college, the days of a student being able to work part time and pay their own way thru college is gone. I printed out tuition sheets from 2004/2005 thru 2010/2011 and on average, tuition for 30 hours per year increases about $550 per year. I didn't put a pencil to room and board, but it increase each year too. A year of college at his university will run about $16 to $17,000 per year this year. If tuition increases keep pace, the year he graduates it will be $18 to $19,000 per year.

It's tough being an upper middle class white male when it comes to scholarships. My son was a 4.00 honor student and graduated 33 out of 459. The best he could get was a $1000 per semester merit scholarship, which means we are on the hook for the additional $14,000 per year. If he were a female, a minority or we made less that $50,000 per year, he could get much, much more money for school. But, we've always paid our way and don't expect someone else to do it for us. It just kind of torques me that my tax dollars are funding kids with low grades, kids whose parents pay far less than me in tax dollars and kids who are a different gender or color than paying for my own child.

The reason for that is because the odds are you don't vote for those who give away what you have to work for. They know exactly who butters their bread.

 

[Vanquish]

To your first point..defense spending and our present military are very socialistic.

To your second point..the war on poverty has been in a very large part sucessful. What it meant to be "poor" when I was growing up in this country..is vastly different what it means to be "poor" today. More "minorities" hold more high paying positions, and positions in government then at any time in our nation's history. That's a pretty good benchmark.

To your third point, see above. There are more people with college degrees as well.

It's silly to say Socialism is a failure. It's also silly to say that a government should become totally socialistic. My general preference..and it seems that this is become the world's preference, is a blend of the two. What's the right mixture?

That's still anyone's guess.

Then government as a whole is socialistic.

As far as welfare goes, the numbers are on my side on this. 2008 72% of black kids were born w/o a father around.

And you still can not work your way through college any more.

True that! Week before last my son and I went to a two day student/parent orientation at his university for him to enroll in his freshman year. In one of the sessions put on by the finacial folks at the school, they made it clear that while a student can certainly work and help pay for their college, the days of a student being able to work part time and pay their own way thru college is gone. I printed out tuition sheets from 2004/2005 thru 2010/2011 and on average, tuition for 30 hours per year increases about $550 per year. I didn't put a pencil to room and board, but it increase each year too. A year of college at his university will run about $16 to $17,000 per year this year. If tuition increases keep pace, the year he graduates it will be $18 to $19,000 per year.

It's tough being an upper middle class white male when it comes to scholarships. My son was a 4.00 honor student and graduated 33 out of 459. The best he could get was a $1000 per semester merit scholarship, which means we are on the hook for the additional $14,000 per year. If he were a female, a minority or we made less that $50,000 per year, he could get much, much more money for school. But, we've always paid our way and don't expect someone else to do it for us. It just kind of torques me that my tax dollars are funding kids with low grades, kids whose parents pay far less than me in tax dollars and kids who are a different gender or color than paying for my own child.

Not entirely true.

State schools cost pennies on the dollar compared to private schools. One can pay their own way through a state school these days still.

Not to derail...but this seems to be a teachable moment (lol). This is a perfect example as to why the public option would NOT ruin private insurance!! There are public colleges which cost less...and yet private schools still flourish. Why??? Because they have a better product in some ways. Just something to think about.

 

[kwc57]

Then government as a whole is socialistic.

As far as welfare goes, the numbers are on my side on this. 2008 72% of black kids were born w/o a father around.

And you still can not work your way through college any more.

True that! Week before last my son and I went to a two day student/parent orientation at his university for him to enroll in his freshman year. In one of the sessions put on by the finacial folks at the school, they made it clear that while a student can certainly work and help pay for their college, the days of a student being able to work part time and pay their own way thru college is gone. I printed out tuition sheets from 2004/2005 thru 2010/2011 and on average, tuition for 30 hours per year increases about $550 per year. I didn't put a pencil to room and board, but it increase each year too. A year of college at his university will run about $16 to $17,000 per year this year. If tuition increases keep pace, the year he graduates it will be $18 to $19,000 per year.

It's tough being an upper middle class white male when it comes to scholarships. My son was a 4.00 honor student and graduated 33 out of 459. The best he could get was a $1000 per semester merit scholarship, which means we are on the hook for the additional $14,000 per year. If he were a female, a minority or we made less that $50,000 per year, he could get much, much more money for school. But, we've always paid our way and don't expect someone else to do it for us. It just kind of torques me that my tax dollars are funding kids with low grades, kids whose parents pay far less than me in tax dollars and kids who are a different gender or color than paying for my own child.

Not entirely true.

State schools cost pennies on the dollar compared to private schools. One can pay their own way through a state school these days still.

Not to derail...but this seems to be a teachable moment (lol). This is a perfect example as to why the public option would NOT ruin private insurance!! There are public colleges which cost less...and yet private schools still flourish. Why??? Because they have a better product in some ways. Just something to think about.

I attended a private university whereas my son is attending a state university. Agreed, you can go to the local junior college for about half the tuition cost of the state university and live at home instead of on campus. If you are however going to major in something like engineering, you go to the school with the best program which is the university over the junior college. The university is in another town an hour and half away. Freshmen are required to live in university housing. While I agree it is "possible" even for the state university student to pay there way thru, it is far more difficult today than it was when I went thru 35 years ago. A kid trying to work part time and come up with $16 to $18,000 per year....just for school costs alone......and carry a fulltime load in the honors college isn't all that easy.

 

[Flopper]

Then government as a whole is socialistic.

As far as welfare goes, the numbers are on my side on this. 2008 72% of black kids were born w/o a father around.

And you still can not work your way through college any more.

True that! Week before last my son and I went to a two day student/parent orientation at his university for him to enroll in his freshman year. In one of the sessions put on by the finacial folks at the school, they made it clear that while a student can certainly work and help pay for their college, the days of a student being able to work part time and pay their own way thru college is gone. I printed out tuition sheets from 2004/2005 thru 2010/2011 and on average, tuition for 30 hours per year increases about $550 per year. I didn't put a pencil to room and board, but it increase each year too. A year of college at his university will run about $16 to $17,000 per year this year. If tuition increases keep pace, the year he graduates it will be $18 to $19,000 per year.

It's tough being an upper middle class white male when it comes to scholarships. My son was a 4.00 honor student and graduated 33 out of 459. The best he could get was a $1000 per semester merit scholarship, which means we are on the hook for the additional $14,000 per year. If he were a female, a minority or we made less that $50,000 per year, he could get much, much more money for school. But, we've always paid our way and don't expect someone else to do it for us. It just kind of torques me that my tax dollars are funding kids with low grades, kids whose parents pay far less than me in tax dollars and kids who are a different gender or color than paying for my own child.

Apparently you can afford what they cannot.

Anywho, there are many local colleges where students can live at home and tuition is affordable.

Community colleges are a great way for kids with limited resources to get an education. If you want to graduate from a 4 year school, going to a community college the first 2 years can save you a bucket of money. In many states, community college graduates find it easier to transfer to a 4 year school than trying to enter as a freshman. If you get your AA degree at a Florida community college, you are guaranteed admission to state universities, however you are not guaranteed admission to the college of your choice with the university. I think this is fairly common in other states.

 

[Sallow]

Because taxation being socialistic would have to benefit those actually paying the taxes. Not Haiti, Zaire, Iran, Iraq.......that list goes on and on and on........ the banks and damn sure not IsNtReal.
SO.
Take every nickel you idiots pay in and keep it all at home. EVERY NICKEL and use it only within the US.No more corporate subsidies, no more bailouts. Your money used to benefit YOU.
Socialism.
Ya know. Schools,libraries, free internet, new infrastructure, health care, small business loans. All of the things murkins hate.

Not exactly.

Socialism sorta works on the theory that many hands make light work.

Not even close.

You can't get many hands unless you force them, then you slide quickly into communism.

Nobody forced early hunter gatherers to form hunting parties.

Hunger did.

And a taste for meat.

 

[Sallow]

Because taxation being socialistic would have to benefit those actually paying the taxes. Not Haiti, Zaire, Iran, Iraq.......that list goes on and on and on........ the banks and damn sure not IsNtReal.
SO.
Take every nickel you idiots pay in and keep it all at home. EVERY NICKEL and use it only within the US.No more corporate subsidies, no more bailouts. Your money used to benefit YOU.
Socialism.
Ya know. Schools,libraries, free internet, new infrastructure, health care, small business loans. All of the things murkins hate.

Not exactly.

Socialism sorta works on the theory that many hands make light work.

But those hands have to contribute to carrying the load, not being the load. If I can benefit off the hard work of someone else, why should I break a sweat?

Which brings up a good point. And when you see a nation like the former Soviet Union, you can sorta understand why their economy utterly failed.

Why work your ass off if it isn't going to get you anywhere..and vodka is cheap.

 

[kwc57]

Not exactly.

Socialism sorta works on the theory that many hands make light work.

But those hands have to contribute to carrying the load, not being the load. If I can benefit off the hard work of someone else, why should I break a sweat?

Which brings up a good point. And when you see a nation like the former Soviet Union, you can sorta understand why their economy utterly failed.

Why work your ass off if it isn't going to get you anywhere..and vodka is cheap.

Which is where socialism leads. Why repeat it here?

 

[Mr.Nick]

Wouldn't a 100% tax rate with the wealth redistributed equally not be socialism?

Yes, so by de facto taxation IS socialism when the revenue is redistributed via social programs.

Taxation and wealth redistribution is really pseudo-socialism, however it achieves the same outcome as literal socialism.

Besides, income tax violates the Fourth Amendment anyways.

The only legal tax is a tax on goods and services.

 

[Mr.Nick]

But those hands have to contribute to carrying the load, not being the load. If I can benefit off the hard work of someone else, why should I break a sweat?

Which brings up a good point. And when you see a nation like the former Soviet Union, you can sorta understand why their economy utterly failed.

Why work your ass off if it isn't going to get you anywhere..and vodka is cheap.

Which is where socialism leads. Why repeat it here?

Which is fucked up because American socialists and communists totally ignore how horrible socialism was and how it was a total failure.

They ignore the horrors of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Ho Che Minh, Kim Jong il, Kim Il-Sung etc...

Its almost like American socialists/communists are dumb and delusional. To make it even more bizarre they run around in Che Guevara t-shirts claiming how kind and loving they are when Che Guevara was a ruthless killer that got his jollies off lining people up and braining them.