Is secession really legally impossible?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ihopehefails, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. ihopehefails
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    ihopehefails BANNED

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    I know all the legal arguments have gone back and forth and lets say the anti-secessionist are correct does that still make secession impossible to do under the constitution? All one would have to do is pass a constitutional amendment declaring that XYZ states are no longer a part of the union.

    This can provide a solution to our national debt because all 50 states can seceede from Washington DC and allow it to be its own city-state like singapore. The fifty states can now be debt free as Washington, being a part of the old USA, is still obligated to those debts.

    Think about that for a moment...
     
  2. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    You are AMAZINGLY stupid.
     
  3. xotoxi
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    xotoxi Platinum Member

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    2/3rd of states are required to pass an amendment. Would you include the votes of those states that were requesting to leave? And what would happen if all of the states voted to allow state X to leave, and then when the vote came up for state Y to leave it fell one vote short because state X was no longer in the union? And what if individual states refused to even vote on the proposal?

    There are a lot of problems with your theory resulting in the fact that no state will ever leave this union.
     
  4. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist Supporting Member

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    I would go with other ways to enforce autonomy and self representation that do not require additional legislation necessarily though it might help:
    1. setting up your own business or charity that solves the problems you do not want govt interfering with or wasting money on; then deducting all business investments up to 100% off your taxes so you direct where your money goes. This can be done as a school, an online consulting group or media institution, radio or microlending fund, or homeowners association where you govern a whole neighborhood, district or community and implement programs as a charity or business.
    2. mediating and resolving all conflicts by consensus, and enforcing this standard with other people and institutions you deal with. ethics-commission.net

    So if you start with your community or issues you care most about, and set up your own programs and solutions, there is no reason you cannot fund that and represent yourself that way, independent of what people in office or government are doing. You have equal right and authority to operate your own programs and policies by your beliefs as any other human being. If any legislative change is needed, it is to prevent laws from being abused to give corporations or officials immunity or authority to override individuals who are equal.

    As for debts, why not set up a system of funding reparations to pay back taxpayers by issuing bond or currency against the debts and damages for corporate or govt corruption. The same way the Fed was set up by private investors using legislation they wrote and enacted, citizens can form collectives and do similar but locally.
    I would use a combination of the Ithaca HOURS system and microlending to do this.
    http://www.ithacahours.com or http://www.ithacahours.org
    http://www.grameenfoundation.org
    http://www.modestneeds.org
    You can set up your own local currency and advertise local banks and businesses that agree to support the network and circulate the money, and it's already legal if you follow existing laws.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  5. Dr.Traveler
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    Dr.Traveler Mathematician

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    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: No. First up, the practical issue is that if the 50 states left the Union and tried to weasel out of the debt, they'd be invaided quickly by foreign powers looking to collect. Even without military intervention, the rest of the world would quickly destroy any state attempting to welch on its debt with political and economic means.

    The other practicality is that with a few very notable suggestions, the States as we know them couldn't survive independently for very long. A large chunk of them take in more from tax revenue than they pay to the Feds, and those that pay more in Federal Taxes than they get back have economies that are closely tied to the other 50 states, and even foreign powers. That isn't even touching the military aspects of how long an independent state would last.
     
  6. ☭proletarian☭
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    Once you secede, the law no longer applies to you, as you're no longer apart of that country.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2010
  7. Dr.Traveler
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    Or, to carry it further, you have no further right to claim protection under the law.

    So if, for example, Texas decided to hit the road and China brought enormous amounts of political and economic consequences down on them in order to collect on their debt.... well that's a Texas problem now.

    States that leave may want to pretend that they won't take with them a signifigant portion of the Federal Debt, but folks with more Money, Political Power, and bigger militaries are NOT likely to agree. Nor would they be likely to ever get credit on the international markets if they were unwilling to own up to their share.
     
  8. ☭proletarian☭
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    Yes. It goes both ways.

    *my specification
     
  9. NYcarbineer
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    NYcarbineer Diamond Member

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    That's begging the question. The question being, do you have the authority to declare that the law no longer applies to you.

    Among the many issues, a state is comprised mostly of U.S. citizens, who have Constitutional rights, protections, and obligations as U.S. citizens. A state has no right to revoke your citizenship, and thus cannot void any rights, protections, and obligations you have as a U.S. citizen.
     
  10. ihopehefails
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    I was just throwing out a topic for discussion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010

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