Is Joyce Meyer an outright liar or just oblivious & deceived?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by HaShev, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. HaShev
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    HaShev Gold Member

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    I have no ill feelings towards Joyce Meyer or her outreach that targets womans issues, but today her broadcast showed something disturbing that needs a quick response.
    Many pastors have FINALLY decided to NOTICE DEUT. where I posted constantly on choices we are given: to choose life the blessing instead of death the curse.
    Many recently have been using that verse as their sermon for the day.
    In front of her huge audience she decided to discuss that verse saying it's a no brainer to choose life the blessing (sound familiar?)
    HOWEVER, she blatantly lied and said that was the teaching of the gospels all along.
    That is not true, many times I proved and showed that the gospel teaches the curse (death). Including representing themselves with the mark of (the beast) death (=cross), choosing the cursed death (hanging on a tree) [Galatians 3:13 "Christ... being made a curse upon us... Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree" also read Deut 21:22.]
    for it's messenger of the kingdom of death and boasting that he has the keys to the gates of death(the pit)-Rev1:18.
    Lifting high the son of perdition (lucifer) revealed in
    Ezekiel 28 does not help their claim either.
    Perdition means fall to the pit, Baal's son the morning star(rev 22:16) fell to the pit in a cursed death for claiming to be a god.
    -1 peter 3:19, acts 2:27,apostles creed, Ezekiel28 warning.

    They are clearly teaching the cursed kingdom in death rather then the blessing Creation of life. Examples:
    Colossians 2:12] and you were
    buried with him in baptism Romans 6:4 We
    were buried therefore with him by baptism
    into death in John 18:33-37 :his kingdom is
    not of the earth..
    The mystery is you've been worshiping death and the gate keeper of death.
    John 10 :9 {Jesus speaking} I am the
    gate; whoever enters through me will be
    saved. But his kingdom was not of this earth
    it was in death so he claims to be the gate
    keeper of Hades. Thus the whole world is
    deceived.
    Rev 9:1 the fallen star was given
    the key to the shaft of the Abyss. remember
    Jesus is the one admitting to having this
    Key to the abyss in Revelation 1:18 He’s
    also always saying salvation is in death and
    we see his proud proclaimation of being the
    gate keeper of death: -Apocryphon of
    James- "become seekers for death, like the
    dead who seek for life; for that which they
    seek is revealed to them. And what is there
    to trouble them? As for you, when you
    examine death it will teach you election.
    Verily I say unto you, none of those who fear
    death will be saved; for the kingdom of
    death belongs to those who put themselves
    to death!" Rev 9:2 When he opened the
    Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke
    from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky
    were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.
    Luke 23:44-45 "and there was a darkness
    over all the earth until the ninth hour. And
    the sun was darkened."
    Act’s 2:27 and 1 peter3:19 he descended to hell means he opened the abyss.
    This is when it darkened at his
    opening of the abyss. G0D darkens the
    heavens as he snuffs out his enemy,like in
    Ezekiel 32:7-8.
    Revelations 6:7 When the Lamb opened the
    fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth
    living creature say, "Come!" 8I looked, and
    there before me was a pale horse! Its rider
    was named Death, and Hades was following
    close behind him. They were given power
    over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword,
    famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of
    the earth.
    He knew in dying he would draw people to
    himself rather then to G-d the dying god
    mythology was thus imitated where the son
    (the morning star) surpasses his father Baal.
    He wanted to raise himself high into the
    heavens above the throne of G-d: Isaiah
    14:12 the Morning Star Heb Helel; i.e.
    shining one Is 34:4; Luke 10:18; Rev 8:10;
    9:1 2 Pet 1:19; Rev 2:28; 22:16 .

    There is no better and obvious description of their greek death cultism and teachings of the curse then in:
    Apocryphon of James".... become seekers for
    death, like the dead who seek for life; for
    that which they seek is revealed to them.
    And what is there to trouble them? As for
    you, when you examine death it will teach
    you election. Verily I say unto you, none of
    those who fear death will be saved; for the
    kingdom of death belongs to those who put
    themselves to death!"
    Thus Jesus is the curse in chosing Death according to:
    Deuteronomy\Devarim: 30:19
    " I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day,That I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse; Therefore choose life, that you may live, you and your children."
    The Church teaches the curse when
    they say:"solution for mankind's dilemma
    lies in suffering, and through the portals of
    death" "Suffering Is Also God's
    Gift” - Pope John Paul II Angelus, October
    13, 1996, Gemelli Hospital.

    So if Joyce Meyers an outright liar or just blind and oblivious to the actual gospel teaching opposing the Creator and the creation?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  2. irosie91
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    irosie91 Diamond Member

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    a story------long long ago-----my little snow flake (my one and only child---a blond blue eyed boy with skin so white that it was transluscent) attended a special exhibition of very special art---borrowed from Italy. It depicted catholic "martyrs"----one after the other-----we marched along the velvet rope marked path in very dim light....there were guards----with CANNONS on their belts. We got to the GRAND FINALE-----the CRUCIFIXION!!!!! like six feet high----jesus splayed out on a cross, -----my little snow flake was clearly bored out of his mind----dashed under the velvet rope----jammed his tiny hand square on the oil painting and "I HATE THIS PAINTING" the gates of hell opened in my mind-----I thought one of the guards would shoot him!!!! it was surreal. an Ingmar
    Bergman moment.............we escaped alive
     
  3. HaShev
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    HaShev Gold Member

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    That reminds me of my unease at viewing the Rodin's Gates of Hell Bronze work in front of the Rodin museum.
    We are supposed to be affraid, sickened, disgusted, uneasy over death. It'sxwhy we have the Mikvah cleansing.
    We are also supposed to feel that it's not a necessary natural condition and thus could & should be over come.
     
  4. Carla_Danger
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    Carla_Danger Platinum Member

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    Joyce is a fraud, and anyone dumb enough to send her money deserves to lose their money.
     
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  5. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Dear HaShev have you noticed there are different approaches of parenting?
    Some parents teach their kids by WARNING of ill consequences of ill behavior.
    Other parents focus on positive aspects of improving and correcting behavior and rewards of hard work.
    The key is to balance both.

    Some pastors focus on the "if you don't do right you end up suffering in hell" approach.
    Some pastors focus on "when we forgive and receive, we are blessed and good things happen."

    Now what I've noticed is some people RESPOND to the kick-your-ass approach in order to do right.
    I don't agree with this, and don't do well with that AT ALL, but some people do or it's necessary to get
    through to those types!

    So I notice there are old school types who rely on OT, retributive justice
    approaches of judgment and punishment. Like when parents spank or punish kids
    with grounding, taking away privileges to teach them rules mean rules, and disobedience has consequences.

    And there are new school NT types who focus on restorative justice
    approaches of forgiving and correcting problems so that we can benefit from lessons and not repeat errors.

    I prefer the Restorative Justice way of teaching which I believe INCLUDES the
    previous older laws that if we don't make good and make right, then we all suffer the consequences.

    We can still teach that but in a Restorative corrective atmosphere
    that invites and rewards people for confessing and correcting faults, instead of hiding them in fear of punishment judgment and rejection. At some point the old methods don't work
    because people become adults who learn by reason and experience,
    and outgrow the spanking methods for the kids who learn by being punished when nothing else works.

    Until we all grow to spiritual maturity, and make decisions by good sense of what is beneficial to all,l
    there are still some people
    who don't follow laws unless they are forced by authority under penalty or threats and bullying.

    So the old laws and old ways of teaching still exist and are there to address people
    like terrorists who only listen to sheer force.
     
  6. HaShev
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    HaShev Gold Member

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    >>>I prefer the "Restorative" (HaSheva) Justice.

    Thank you.
    But one of the processes for that hasheva (restoration) is through what the OT and rehashed in the NT calls "refiners fire".
    They can not remove the nature that fails them, nor purify and become more Shalem (complete & whole) if they can't take the heat and let the judgement bring introspection and purification.
    Refiners fire analogy is of the process of raising the heat so the impurities rise to the surface so they can be skimed off and removed, so what's left is more pure and valuable
    "Complete/Whole/Stable" (Shalem).
    Hence the city of Shalem becomes city of peace (Shalom) when we as humanity remove those ugly behaviors-differences and come together in wholeness of kind.
     
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  7. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Yes, HaShev and we are going through this process now.
    Even as we speak. We are going through tribulations, wars and cleansing,
    and the purpose is to grow to the level of Restorative Justice.
    right now we see a lot of both going on.
    I compare it to the stages of grief recovery and healing.
    Some people/nations/tribes/groups are still going through anger
    and wars, others are in negotiations/bargaining, and yet others
    are already at peace and mentoring people through the other stages.

    We aren't all in the same place or stages at the same time.
    But we are all progressing toward resolution and peace.
    Thank you and I hope our collective efforts will help organize
    people to go through their stages as peacefully and painlessly as possible.
    Some pain cannot be helped, like the pain of childbirth this process
    has been likened to. But we can help make it smoother and not so
    frightening to go through. I believe we can reduce the violence
    and speed up the learning curve wherever possible by not
    repeating the same mistakes. Such as wasting resources fighting or blaming each other, but focus on helping each other get past these problems affecting all of us equally.
    The consequences of past problems
    will still play itself out, but if we all have the same understanding
    the process is heading for good, we can better focus on getting there
    in one piece!

    Thanks so much HaShev it is enlightening to have you here
    on USMB and may the sharing continue and blessings and
    benefits you contribute be multiplied in abundance. Shalom and God Bless!
     
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  8. hadit
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    hadit Gold Member

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    I'm going with you presenting false choices.
     
  9. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Dear hadit
    They may be false to you but true for someone else.
    Like explaining quantum physics may not work for me but might be perfect for someone else.

    Let me give you one example of something JM was teaching:

    She compared God's love and grace to the loving
    parent who had warned their kids over and over
    to stay away from trouble and don't go anywhere without asking permission
    so the parents can watch out for them.

    But the kids disobeyed and went out anyway and got in trouble with
    the neighborhood bully coming after them.

    Does the parent/God stop and hold the kid responsible for disobeying?
    Any parent would protect that kid from the bully first, and go admonish them later.

    So she used this story to explain that God does not reject and judge
    and refuse to help us just because we disobeyed and did wrong.
    We still face those consequences though God will protect us
    when we ask.

    So that's a good example of her philosophy and balancing the sides
    and still having accountability.

    is that false teaching? I think it works for people who
    understand parenting. hadit
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016
  10. shimon
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    shimon Silver Member

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    Uh Huh....Death is the kingdom even though Gd is the Gd of Life... Choose the cross or the way of the cross even though if anyone cares to look at the symbol of the cross it represents Death....The Fact that Hades takes one third of the stars(people) in Heaven(earth) with him should be a real eye opener considering christianity makes up one third of mankind in all its forms.... Teachings either provide a bitter fruit(death) or a sweet fruit(life) it is up too each and everyone to figure out for themselves which TREE is which and whether they can walk around with the NAKED truth or must clothe themselves with the Clothed lie.... Now that the emperor(Jesus) has been exposed and its clothing(the new testament and any other books or pages) looked at properly it should be a no brainer but hey sometimes ones ego will get in the way of admitting it to say the least...
     
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