CDZ Is it just me?

[emilynghiem]

Emilyngheim, money is not real. Power is real. If the money was "taken" from International Finance and Corporations, it would not exist at the level of the poor because it is not real, only the power that the fake money represents is real.

What I mean is there are physical things and then there are artificial numbers in bank accounts. If you took the trillions of dollars from the 1%, and gave it to the poor, for building them such things, who would do the work? The 1% do not have the manpower to build those things for the poor, because the poor are large in number and the 1% is tiny in number, in proportion.

In an ideal world, the wealthy nations are the ones who produce and work the most amount of hours per week and with the best ideas and technology to save time, same with people. Now, the system is not set up that way, in fact it is almost the opposite. However, the point is, the poor themselves would have to build the facilities they need, and they would need to do the work themselves. The 1% could never create those facilities of their own labor simply because the 1% are small in number..

Taking the money from the rich and giving it to the poor, is not possible, because that money is not physical things. The money just represents how much power they have, so they can make all of the decisions, in their benefit. It is a scam. Read, 'The Creature From Jekyll Island' by Griffin, and watch 'The Money Masters' by Bill Still. Then, you may understand what is meant here, and how that dream of taking the money from the rich (which does not exist and is not real) and giving to the poor is not a realistic solution.

The poor will have to work if they want facilities of their own. Now, I know the system as it is, is stacked against them, but the principle of this in an ideal world, would remain the same.

In regards to the Christian Bible, it is not my place to comment much about that. I am not really a huge fan of it. If it gives you some consolation or meaning or purpose, then that is great. My religion is personal and I invented it myself, and it is for myself and a private matter.

Hi Kalki
1. For money, there are systems of organizing fair trade cooperatives and labor pools where workers own and manage it themselves, and can even issue their own currency to keep the flow of money invested locally. SEE Paul Glover who teaches communities how to organize their own labor network and independent local currency backed by labor hours: Paul Glover: social entrepreneur
founder of Ithaca HOURS Introducing HOUR Money

2. For the Bible, I use this as like a second language. So if that doesn't speak to you,
I am fine defaulting to my native language which is secular. My family is Buddhist, I am more a Constitutionalist but Universalist in scope. When people ask me if I am Christian I will explain I have the faith of a Christian but prefer to use the Constitutional laws and principles to express it where the spirit of Restorative Justice fulfills those laws which I find more universal and speak to more people.
The Bible works for people who commit to living and rebuking each other by that. So this can be used to reconcile issues between Jehovah's Witnesses, Church of Christ, Catholics and Lutherans, Mormons and other Christians Jews and Muslims who can correct and receive each other that way.
It's like a language for the laws, so the people that speaks to can use it as a tool to establish truth they can all agree on point by point.

Here is my secular explanation of the meaning of Jesus in the Bible:
Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

I find that the spirit of Restorative Justice that Jesus represents as saving humanity globally
allows all laws of all tribes and nations to be reconciled in the spirit of truth, justice and peace
which the Trinity represents collectively.

If concept in religions are truly UNIVERSAL for ALL humanity, then they should be able to be "translated" into every language, even science, if they are truly applicable and affect all people.
I see myself as more of an "interpreter" where I look for the spirit/concept of what someone is trying to support as good or trying to reject as bad, and then "align" the terms that both sides use so they are truly talking about the same things. If people mean different things by "God/Jesus" where one side uses it to mean Truth/Justice and the other side uses it to mean religious oppression and lies, those two are never going to communicate using those terms in opposite ways. That's half the battle.
Once people can even forgive these differences, enough to see they both want to correct the same problems, then we still have all the physical work to do. But at least we won't be at each other's throats. We can be using our resources to invest in solutions, by pushing in a common direction instead of wasting energy pushing against each other which cancels out all that double effort.

We as humanity are all on a learning curve. The same followers who can be misled over the cliff will also follow a good lead, once our leaders organize the different tribes/nations and agree on solutions. So the same follow-the-leader mass mentality that causes mass corruption will also allow solutions to take off and spread through these hierarchical networks that people are organized under. All groups, all affiliations and institutions can be used for good, just as surely as they are abused for bad.

So even though the mess looks massive, with too much power concentrated in the hands of the few, that same hierarchy can allow mass organization of resources and the right ideas to filter through.
People are getting it together; the TED conferences that are connecting people around sustainable ideas and reforms/fixes to global issues, the mass media and internet people are using so ideas can go viral and influence the masses, etc. We can use the technology we have to either accelerate the learning curve and replication of solution or continue to abuse our resources to fight and destroy.

The good news is once people find solutions that are effective and sustainable, they will not go back to doing things the destructive wasteful way. The human learning curve is growing toward maturity.

We just have to put up with a lot of dirty diapers, teenage tantrum fits, and middle age crazy, while humanity proceeds through all the stages of spiritual social economic and political development,
until we get to the other side.

it is a mess in the meantime, but with the internet, the people with solutions can organize
and manage until the rest of the world catches up. The solutions are out there, we just don't see them because of the glut of crap in the media that grabs all the attention. The solutions that have been working over the years and have the track record to show for it will come out in the end.
And once people see those, and these reforms get replicated, this will weed out all the other mess.

The good will outweigh the bad which is finite and unsustainable.
The good will continue to multiply because people will choose that over the bad.
The will to seek happiness, peace and satisfaction will win out over the fear of change and suffering.

I was hoping to see this in my lifetime; the process will not completely finish
but the groundwork will be laid, and it will take successive generations to undo
the layers of damages from the past, and build sustainable development that can carry forward.

 

[Kalki]

Emily Nghiem, your writing seems very hopeful and optimistic. If you are connected with those TED conferences, you may want to pass on three important texts that may help effect a change:

'Why Is Your Country At War and What Happens To You After the War' by Charles Lindbergh
'Banking, and Currency and the Money Trust' by Charles Lindbergh
'The Economic Pinch' by Charles Lindbergh

I believe some of the economic answers society needs right now, are contained in those books and they are written simply so anyone can understand them. The U.S. government confiscated copies and destroyed the printing presses they were printed on at the time at least two of them were published, and they went underground until the internet brought them back into public view.

Maybe you are correct that people are on a learning curve. I believe we are here to learn as well, and reincarnation exists in my view (see Helgi's songs in the Edda for example or the Myth of Er from the Republic by Plato). It is difficult for me to be optimistic about the future of humans, but temperaments differ and experiences too. Maybe the earth is doomed but not the souls that finish learning here and move on to some other realm (- just attempting to mix pessimism with optimism).

My personal view is that Christianity and Buddhism both teach nihilism and lead to ruin, that could be because of faulty premises I had, though. I am not saying it to be contrary. However, it was interesting to study them both. Perhaps one needs an open heart to understand Christ and Buddha, and mine has been nailed shut by the world. It is difficult to say because it requires deeper knowledge than the intellect. I think it requires "shamanic" trance through various means and traditions, or suchlike, to know the future and the deep hidden past, as well as the purpose of life. Some people believe the origins of Buddhism and those yogic and tao and tantric traditions go back into prehistory and shraman traditions. I am unsure, myself, about this conversation - I mean the premises of everything that both of us have stated. I would love to know the truth about it, but it would require experiential knowledge. Perhaps you have had a transcending experience and know, but I have not or if I did I don't remember what I learned in that state. And we cannot share our experiential knowledge (experiences), only intellectual knowledge (intellect).

Thank you, for being pleasant. It is rare to find people who are pleasant and open and hopeful.

p.s.

This portion has a commonality between Buddhism (ajna) and Christianity from Matthew 6:22:

"The light of the body is the eye: if
therefore thine eye be single, thy
whole body shall be full of light."

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily Nghiem, your writing seems very hopeful and optimistic. If you are connected with those TED conferences, you may want to pass on three important texts that may help effect a change:

'Why Is Your Country At War and What Happens To You After the War' by Charles Lindbergh
'Banking, and Currency and the Money Trust' by Charles Lindbergh
'The Economic Pinch' by Charles Lindbergh

I believe some of the economic answers society needs right now, are contained in those books and they are written simply so anyone can understand them. The U.S. government confiscated copies and destroyed the printing presses they were printed on at the time at least two of them were published, and they went underground until the internet brought them back into public view.

Maybe you are correct that people are on a learning curve. I believe we are here to learn as well, and reincarnation exists in my view (see Helgi's songs in the Edda for example or the Myth of Er from the Republic by Plato). It is difficult for me to be optimistic about the future of humans, but temperaments differ and experiences too. Maybe the earth is doomed but not the souls that finish learning here and move on to some other realm (- just attempting to mix pessimism with optimism).

My personal view is that Christianity and Buddhism both teach nihilism and lead to ruin, that could be because of faulty premises I had, though. I am not saying it to be contrary. However, it was interesting to study them both. Perhaps one needs an open heart to understand Christ and Buddha, and mine has been nailed shut by the world. It is difficult to say because it requires deeper knowledge than the intellect. I think it requires "shamanic" trance through various means and traditions, or suchlike, to know the future and the deep hidden past, as well as the purpose of life. Some people believe the origins of Buddhism and those yogic and tao and tantric traditions go back into prehistory and shraman traditions. I am unsure, myself, about this conversation - I mean the premises of everything that both of us have stated. I would love to know the truth about it, but it would require experiential knowledge. Perhaps you have had a transcending experience and know, but I have not or if I did I don't remember what I learned in that state. And we cannot share our experiential knowledge (experiences), only intellectual knowledge (intellect).

Thank you, for being pleasant. It is rare to find people who are pleasant and open and hopeful.

p.s.

This portion has a commonality between Buddhism (ajna) and Christianity from Matthew 6:22:

"The light of the body is the eye: if
therefore thine eye be single, thy
whole body shall be full of light."

Dear Kalki: Thank you for a very deep and thoughtful response. We certainly can keep talking about this in more and more depth, and I look forward to that. Who knows how many threads that may take, maybe we could fill up this whole board! ;-)

I will look up the references you gave and see what can be done to connect both left and right on economic reforms that are more sustainable and reward cooperation and positive competition that is fair and ethical. Not the unfair competition that undercuts and becomes more destructive than creative.

Here's another angle:
Why Nonprofits Should Be in the Debt Collection Business
Strike Debt! - Debt Resistance for the 99%
The idea of nonprofits buying out debt. Either for saving people from poverty, and/or the % of low interest going to nonprofits instead of big credit card companies charging 25%.
here's a nonprofit that was refinancing homes for working people at 5% or less to stop foreclosures and homelessness:
facebook title The founder Bruce Marks was protesting the Wall Street bailouts of banks doing these predatory loans LONG before Occupy; he was already financing solutions.

As for Buddhism and Christianity leading to "nihilism and ruin"
the point I find in both is to denounce the selfish/destructive tendencies
and to open the door for the better things in life and in human nature to pour forth.

The false/faulty ways come to an end, that's what "dies off" -- the ways that aren't sustainable.
So the good is what carries on by default, what is universally and eternally true survives and prevails.

Whatever in the world has caused part of you to shut down or nail shut,
that's what both Jesus and Buddha had to forgive and let go of before they could understand.
They went through the same thing, in different ways or times, but a similar pattern.

They both had to let go completely, practically give up first.
It doesn't mean to stay in that state, but it is a stage we all have to go through at some point.
That is natural.

In AA recovery, it used to be thought that people "had to hit rock bottom" with their addictions
before they could start anew. But later, it was found people didn't have to totally crash and burn first.

I hope the same is true of the human learning curve. I would think we've crashed and burned enough
in the past, to have records and be able to study this, and not keep repeating the same trial and error
over and over. Why can't we learn from mistakes already made, and then progress from there.

I think it will get better as we go. We have the internet, we have free speech where people are letting all their closeted garbage out in the open to air out and hash out instead of hiding these problems.

As long as we quit adding more garbage to the pile, there is only a finite amount to clean up and out.
There is an end to suffering and conflict, because humans want to be happy and at peace.
We don't want to continue living in fear and oppression, conflict and strife. Nobody wants that.

So given the choice, when people see a solution, a better way out, their conscience naturally gravitates toward that. There is still the path of least resistance and wanting to avoid the work it takes to change and correct problems. But given the consequence, of problems repeating and escalating if we don't stop and do the work to clean up the messes, eventually people choose the path that is going to move forward.

There is a drive in the conscience toward betterment, toward greater good for all, that
trumps the fear of change, fear of the unknown, fear of outside control and oppression.

Out of trial and error, we are going to get there sooner or later.
Might as well be sooner!

Thanks and take care. I hope you continue to share and exchange helpful insights here.
For everything you get out of these interactions, you have just as much to contribute to help others.
So I encourage you in that way.

We need more people like you sharing openly and thoughtfully.
it makes all the difference. Thank you for that, and I look forward to reading more of your posts and resources you recommend. Every bit helps, speed up the learning curve!

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[Kalki]

Emily,

Usury will only result in the ownership of an entire nation if it is allowed to go unchecked, the ancient societies were well aware of the dangers, and had laws to restrict it or outlaw it entirely. See, the Laws of Hammurabi, and the Manusmriti as two examples of how to restrict usury. Here are some more examples:

Exodus 22:24 (25)—If thou lend money to any of My people, even to the poor with thee, thou shalt not be to him as a creditor; neither shall ye lay upon him interest.
Leviticus 25:36— Take thou no interest of him or increase; but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.
Leviticus 25:37— Thou shalt not give him thy money upon interest, nor give him thy victuals for increase.

Deuteronomy 15:1-6 - At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release. 2And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD'S release. 3Of a foreigner thou mayest exact it again: but that which is thine with thy brother thine hand shall release; 4Save when there shall be no poor among you; for the LORD shall greatly bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it: 5Only if thou carefully hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all these commandments which I command thee this day. 6For the LORD thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee.

Deuteronomy 23:20 (19)—Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.
Deuteronomy 23:21 (20)—Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.
Ezekiel 18:17—that hath withdrawn his hand from the poor, that hath not received interest nor increase, hath executed Mine ordinances, hath walked in My statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
Psalm 15:5—He that putteth not out his money on interest, nor taketh a bribe against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

Those who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil's influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, God permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with God. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever (Al-Baqarah 2:275)
God condemns usury, and blesses charities. God dislikes every disbeliever, guilty. Those who believe and do good works and establish worship and pay the poor-due, their reward is with their Lord and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. O you who believe, you shall observe God and refrain from all kinds of usury, if you are believers. If you do not, then expect a war from God and His messenger. But if you repent, you may keep your capitals, without inflicting injustice, or incurring injustice. If the debtor is unable to pay, wait for a better time. If you give up the loan as a charity, it would be better for you, if you only knew. (Al-Baqarah 2:276-280)
O you who believe, you shall not take usury, compounded over and over. Observe God, that you may succeed. (Al-'Imran 3:130)
And for practicing usury, which was forbidden, and for consuming the people's money illicitly. We have prepared for the disbelievers among them painful retribution. (Al-Nisa 4:161)
The usury that is practiced to increase some people's wealth, does not gain anything at God. But if people give to charity, seeking God's pleasure, these are the ones who receive their reward many fold. (Ar-Rum 30:39)

Also look up the JAK Members Bank and how they operate.

Two important texts, besides the works of Lindbergh are 'The Creature from Jekyll Island' by G. Edward Griffin, and 'The Secrets of the Federal Reserve' by Eustace Mullins. Mullins book is the only book, to my knowledge, that was burned in Europe after 1950, this shows how important that book was, just like the importance of Lindbergh's work.

The title of the second chapter of 'The Creature from Jekyll Island' is 'The Name of the Game is Bailout', this book was published in 1994 and predicted the bailouts in 2008, this text is very important for those on the left and the right.

The people who are attempting to create a just society need to understand the history of usury and how it enslaves people. The reason people are ignorant of its dangers is because the authorities are under the control of International Finance. Usury and International Finance are two of the greatest threats to liberty of all peoples and between nations. The news media and Congress will never act on this threat until the people on the left, and the right, become informed and demand a change.

Regards​

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily,

Usury will only result in the ownership of an entire nation if it is allowed to go unchecked, the ancient societies were well aware of the dangers, and had laws to restrict it or outlaw it entirely. See, the Laws of Hammurabi, and the Manusmriti as two examples of how to restrict usury. Here are some more examples:

Exodus 22:24 (25)—If thou lend money to any of My people, even to the poor with thee, thou shalt not be to him as a creditor; neither shall ye lay upon him interest.
Leviticus 25:36— Take thou no interest of him or increase; but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.
Leviticus 25:37— Thou shalt not give him thy money upon interest, nor give him thy victuals for increase.

Deuteronomy 15:1-6 - At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release. 2And this is the manner of the release: Every creditor that lendeth ought unto his neighbour shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbour, or of his brother; because it is called the LORD'S release. 3Of a foreigner thou mayest exact it again: but that which is thine with thy brother thine hand shall release; 4Save when there shall be no poor among you; for the LORD shall greatly bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it: 5Only if thou carefully hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all these commandments which I command thee this day. 6For the LORD thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee.

Deuteronomy 23:20 (19)—Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.
Deuteronomy 23:21 (20)—Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.
Ezekiel 18:17—that hath withdrawn his hand from the poor, that hath not received interest nor increase, hath executed Mine ordinances, hath walked in My statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
Psalm 15:5—He that putteth not out his money on interest, nor taketh a bribe against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.

Those who charge usury are in the same position as those controlled by the devil's influence. This is because they claim that usury is the same as commerce. However, God permits commerce, and prohibits usury. Thus, whoever heeds this commandment from his Lord, and refrains from usury, he may keep his past earnings, and his judgment rests with God. As for those who persist in usury, they incur Hell, wherein they abide forever (Al-Baqarah 2:275)
God condemns usury, and blesses charities. God dislikes every disbeliever, guilty. Those who believe and do good works and establish worship and pay the poor-due, their reward is with their Lord and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. O you who believe, you shall observe God and refrain from all kinds of usury, if you are believers. If you do not, then expect a war from God and His messenger. But if you repent, you may keep your capitals, without inflicting injustice, or incurring injustice. If the debtor is unable to pay, wait for a better time. If you give up the loan as a charity, it would be better for you, if you only knew. (Al-Baqarah 2:276-280)
O you who believe, you shall not take usury, compounded over and over. Observe God, that you may succeed. (Al-'Imran 3:130)
And for practicing usury, which was forbidden, and for consuming the people's money illicitly. We have prepared for the disbelievers among them painful retribution. (Al-Nisa 4:161)
The usury that is practiced to increase some people's wealth, does not gain anything at God. But if people give to charity, seeking God's pleasure, these are the ones who receive their reward many fold. (Ar-Rum 30:39)

Also look up the JAK Members Bank and how they operate.

Two important texts, besides the works of Lindbergh are 'The Creature from Jekyll Island' by G. Edward Griffin, and 'The Secrets of the Federal Reserve' by Eustace Mullins. Mullins book is the only book, to my knowledge, that was burned in Europe after 1950, this shows how important that book was, just like the importance of Lindbergh's work.

The title of the second chapter of 'The Creature from Jekyll Island' is 'The Name of the Game is Bailout', this book was published in 1994 and predicted the bailouts in 2008, this text is very important for those on the left and the right.

The people who are attempting to create a just society need to understand the history of usury and how it enslaves people. The reason people are ignorant of its dangers is because the authorities are under the control of International Finance. Usury and International Finance are two of the greatest threats to liberty of all peoples and between nations. The news media and Congress will never act on this threat until the people on the left, and the right, become informed and demand a change.

Regards​

Dear Kalki yes, yes and more yes, we need to address and resolve this issue, yes!
I just spoke with a fellow progressive reformist on how to start reclaiming restitution against debts owed to taxpayers, abuse victims, enslaved workers. We are looking into how to use labor backed currency or credit system to flip the debts, turn the tables on wrongdoers and get the victims paid back, by investing those resources into sustainable programs, services and business training to break the cycle of poverty, abuse crime and oppression. The same solutions solve problems on every level related, so it hits several targets with one centralized solution, that will still cover all the applications and issues affecting people.

Since my friend had pitched business plans before through Shark Tank I was going to propose a spinoff to the music and costume audition contests,
where the money raised by voting in teams creates internships and sustainable jobs and training in restoring environmental and historic landmarks destroyed by corporate abuses these programs would correct.

For the dance and music video contests, I had written songs about the history of corporate and environmental destruction of the Headwaters Forest ecosystem and endangered wildlife in CA at taxpayer expense that I would hold as collateral and finance sustainable jobs against the value and cost of restoration that will take several generations to stabilize.

Since you mention USURY here is the spoof song about the Funny Money used for corporate welfare to fund the seizure of land at taxpayer expense.

B. "Funny Money" (in the style of "Dirty Laundry" by Don Henley,
)

Environmental Lyrics Written for Charles Hurwitz, Darryl "Earth First!" Cherney, the Securities Exchange Commission (SEC) and Corporate America. For a history on Hurwitz and MAXXAM, see Jail Hurwitz!!! for $50,000 Reward!.

I make my living raiding companies -
Like Pacific Lumber - and the redwood trees
The more I have the more I seize With my "funny money"

Had-to bail-me-outta junk-bonds, from an S-and-L
Crashed down like the redwoods, they force me to sell
To pay off interest rates from hell On my "funny money"

Stocks are going up, Stocks are going down
Sell 'em when they're up, Buy 'em when they're down (sound of NY Stock Exchange)
Stocks are going up, Trees are falling down
Stocks are going up, Trees are falling down (sound of logging equipment)

Tried to make it out in L.A., but I ran back here
Another funny setback in my corporate career
Welcomed here by Bob Lanier Despite my "funny money"

In any other culture this is usury
Spreading greed and corruption, and human misery
God forgive our Treasury Built on "funny money"

We could profit off our music, we could dance and sing
In a global celebration, of every living thing
Let's give Maxxam an offering Using honest money

[REPEAT CHORUS] Funny how the media, and funny corporate ties
Breed funny little stories Blowing smoke in your eyes
Hired just to make up lies, with that "funny money"

We could profit off our music, we could dance and sing
In a global celebration, of every living thing
Let's give Maxxam an offering Using honest money....

Website under construction, lyrics to series posted at:
http://www.houstonprogressive.org

 

[Kalki]

Emily, one important film documentary that addresses a point that was missed in 'The Creature From Jekyll Island' is on youtube and titled, 'The Money Masters' by Bill Still.

Thank you for sharing and informing on the work that has been going on to establish a just system founded in human rights, rather than tyranny.