Is it a "Poll Tax"

[DiamondDave]

Not really. I think the only thing I have used my birth certificate for in the last 30 years was to get a passport. I have never had an employer request it. I think I used it for my first driver's license. If I am required to obtain a document from the state for the sole purpose of obtaining another document from the state just to be able to vote, then there should be no charge.

I understand the intent is to prevent fraud. I am fine with that. However, there should be no unintentional effect of preventing or even discouraging people from voting. If the state wishes to acheive the former, it should do so in a manner that will not create the latter. After all, we want people to vote..... don't we?

Or to get married.. or to obtain a soc card.. or to obtain other things an employer or bank or whatever would need... and when the floodgate is opened, there is always something else that can be said that is needed to obtain the things to then obtain the free ID...

There was an old lady....

I've been married for almost 40 years and have no plans to do it again soon. I already have a social security card. I have a passport. As I said, I have yet to have an employer ask for one, or a bank for that matter. Perhaps you should go to another bank. So right now, I don't need one. The point is that if I have to get a copy of my birth certificate just so I can vote, then I shouldn't have to pay for it.

Unless, of course, the intent is to discourage me from voting. But that is not the intent. The intent is to prevent fraud and just because I don't have the money to pay for a birth certificate doesn't make me guilty of fraud. Does it? Should I not be allowed to vote because I can't afford those few dollars?

I understand that... and I have not needed to because I have my soc card, my drivers license, etc... but I did have to show for my marriage license recently... it does have more than one use

And where does the line stop? The birth cert? The travel to get the birth cert or the voter ID? The copy machine to make the copies needed? The time off during your normal daytime working hours? What all must be provided or reimbursed??

While MOST would think it is ok to provide a second free birth cert, many would also see the floodgates this opens up

There was an old lady....

 

[Oldstyle]

For the sole purpose of voting the costs to get the documentation are fees in my humble opinion and the things you mentioned are ancillary to those fees and are therefor not a part of voting. Take for example a person who would otherwise not need a BC for another other reason than to obtain it to get the ID to vote, and yet has voted in prior elections and it is well established that person is a citizen, that person is paying a "poll tax" in order to vote as is the case with the Ms Applewhite in PA.

yet the person can and does need the birth cert from everything from employment, to drivers license, to whatever else... and in this case anyone could say they lost whatever or did not have whatever and that they would only now use it to register to vote and vote, even though they would indeed be using it for other things...

None of the things needed to prove who you are have only that use, and none of the things needed to do things for yourself to obtain the documentation to prove who you are are solely for you to register to vote or to vote.... it immediately opens for the "there was on old lady" landslide

Not really. I think the only thing I have used my birth certificate for in the last 30 years was to get a passport. I have never had an employer request it. I think I used it for my first driver's license. If I am required to obtain a document from the state for the sole purpose of obtaining another document from the state just to be able to vote, then there should be no charge.

I understand the intent is to prevent fraud. I am fine with that. However, there should be no unintentional effect of preventing or even discouraging people from voting. If the state wishes to acheive the former, it should do so in a manner that will not create the latter. After all, we want people to vote..... don't we?

Have you not applied for a job lately? If so then your employer BY LAW has to fill out an I-9 document on which you have to prove your identity and your legal right to work in this country. That can be established by a passport...which establishes both...or with a driver's license or other State issued ID to prove who you are and a birth certificate to prove that you were born here. If your employer DIDN'T do this then they are breaking the law and will be in a world of hurt if their records are ever audited by the INS.

 

[Oldstyle]

What I find amusing is to watch all of you people who love government regulations and have no problem with forcing businesses to maintain filing cabinets full of paperwork for decades to prevent them from doing wrong but are aghast at requiring a citizen who wants to vote to provide proper ID.

 

[WorldWatcher]

For the sole purpose of voting the costs to get the documentation are fees in my humble opinion and the things you mentioned are ancillary to those fees and are therefor not a part of voting. Take for example a person who would otherwise not need a BC for another other reason than to obtain it to get the ID to vote, and yet has voted in prior elections and it is well established that person is a citizen, that person is paying a "poll tax" in order to vote as is the case with the Ms Applewhite in PA.

OK, I'd be willing to compromise. A person requests a birth certificate they must indicate on the form whether (A) it is for the sole purpose of obtaining a voter qualifying ID, or (B) Whether it will be used for that or any other purpose needed by the individual. If they indicate (A), the the birth certificate is free. If they indicate (B) then normal costs are charged.

Printed in large, bold, red text across the top is:

"For Use in Voter Identification Processing Only"​

Now, when the person uses the Birth Certificate for obtaining a voter approved ID, the issuing agency of ID retains and shreds the birth certificate if it has the red printing on top. If on the other hand the birth certificate had the proper signatures and raised seals, but no red printing - then it is returned to the holder.

Birth Certificates with the red printing would not be legal as:

• Proof of employability for I-9 purposes,
• Proof of age for admittance to any public school (primary, secondary, or college) that accepts federal money in any way,
• Is not an acceptable proof of identity/age for any sports team (football, little league, soccer, etc.),
• Would not be proof of identify for induction into any branch of the armed services,
• Would not be proof of identify for hiring for any public position.

>>>>

 

[PratchettFan]

Or to get married.. or to obtain a soc card.. or to obtain other things an employer or bank or whatever would need... and when the floodgate is opened, there is always something else that can be said that is needed to obtain the things to then obtain the free ID...

There was an old lady....

I've been married for almost 40 years and have no plans to do it again soon. I already have a social security card. I have a passport. As I said, I have yet to have an employer ask for one, or a bank for that matter. Perhaps you should go to another bank. So right now, I don't need one. The point is that if I have to get a copy of my birth certificate just so I can vote, then I shouldn't have to pay for it.

Unless, of course, the intent is to discourage me from voting. But that is not the intent. The intent is to prevent fraud and just because I don't have the money to pay for a birth certificate doesn't make me guilty of fraud. Does it? Should I not be allowed to vote because I can't afford those few dollars?

I understand that... and I have not needed to because I have my soc card, my drivers license, etc... but I did have to show for my marriage license recently... it does have more than one use

And where does the line stop? The birth cert? The travel to get the birth cert or the voter ID? The copy machine to make the copies needed? The time off during your normal daytime working hours? What all must be provided or reimbursed??

While MOST would think it is ok to provide a second free birth cert, many would also see the floodgates this opens up

There was an old lady....

The floodgates are neither my fault nor my concern. I have a right to vote and the state does not have a right to prevent me from voting by making me pay for it. If the state creates this floodgate problem, then it is their problem. Not mine.

No one is asking for babysitter money or paid time off from the state. If the state requires something specifically for me to exercise my right to vote, it should not charge me for it. Simple as that. If the state does not want the floodgates to open, then it should not require it of me to begin with.

You see, the solution is that the old lady should never have swallowed the fly. You can't blame the fly for what happened afterwards.

 

[PratchettFan]

yet the person can and does need the birth cert from everything from employment, to drivers license, to whatever else... and in this case anyone could say they lost whatever or did not have whatever and that they would only now use it to register to vote and vote, even though they would indeed be using it for other things...

None of the things needed to prove who you are have only that use, and none of the things needed to do things for yourself to obtain the documentation to prove who you are are solely for you to register to vote or to vote.... it immediately opens for the "there was on old lady" landslide

Not really. I think the only thing I have used my birth certificate for in the last 30 years was to get a passport. I have never had an employer request it. I think I used it for my first driver's license. If I am required to obtain a document from the state for the sole purpose of obtaining another document from the state just to be able to vote, then there should be no charge.

I understand the intent is to prevent fraud. I am fine with that. However, there should be no unintentional effect of preventing or even discouraging people from voting. If the state wishes to acheive the former, it should do so in a manner that will not create the latter. After all, we want people to vote..... don't we?

Have you not applied for a job lately? If so then your employer BY LAW has to fill out an I-9 document on which you have to prove your identity and your legal right to work in this country. That can be established by a passport...which establishes both...or with a driver's license or other State issued ID to prove who you are and a birth certificate to prove that you were born here. If your employer DIDN'T do this then they are breaking the law and will be in a world of hurt if their records are ever audited by the INS.

I don't have to apply for a job. What has this to do with my righ to vote?

 

[PratchettFan]

For the sole purpose of voting the costs to get the documentation are fees in my humble opinion and the things you mentioned are ancillary to those fees and are therefor not a part of voting. Take for example a person who would otherwise not need a BC for another other reason than to obtain it to get the ID to vote, and yet has voted in prior elections and it is well established that person is a citizen, that person is paying a "poll tax" in order to vote as is the case with the Ms Applewhite in PA.

OK, I'd be willing to compromise. A person requests a birth certificate they must indicate on the form whether (A) it is for the sole purpose of obtaining a voter qualifying ID, or (B) Whether it will be used for that or any other purpose needed by the individual. If they indicate (A), the the birth certificate is free. If they indicate (B) then normal costs are charged.

Printed in large, bold, red text across the top is:

"For Use in Voter Identification Processing Only"​

Now, when the person uses the Birth Certificate for obtaining a voter approved ID, the issuing agency of ID retains and shreds the birth certificate if it has the red printing on top. If on the other hand the birth certificate had the proper signatures and raised seals, but no red printing - then it is returned to the holder.

Birth Certificates with the red printing would not be legal as:

• Proof of employability for I-9 purposes,
• Proof of age for admittance to any public school (primary, secondary, or college) that accepts federal money in any way,
• Is not an acceptable proof of identity/age for any sports team (football, little league, soccer, etc.),
• Would not be proof of identify for induction into any branch of the arms services,
• Would not be proof of identify for hiring for any public position.

>>>>

I'm fine with that.

 

[Too Tall]

... because that American cannot afford the proper documentation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't states that require voter IDs offer to provide one free of charge? If true, that rather destroys your entire argument, wouldn't you agree?

As i mentioned in several postings... the cost to obtain those "Free ID's" are not , so no it doesn't. Futher I also mentioned, that as Haper is the standard even in the recent Indiana case where Voter ID's were upheld, its very clear if there is a "fee" involved its a "poll tax" .


Judge Stevens in the Indiana Case...

"is mitigated by the fact that eligible voters without photo identification may cast provisional ballots that will be counted if they execute the required affidavit at the circuit court clerk’s office. "

This is why I mentioned in my original thread "with the exception of Indiana" because even voters in Indiana without Voter ID may case a ballot and have it counted so that discounts the "poll tax" argument.

Here are the acceptable voter ID's in Georgia

Georgia driver’s license, even if expired
ID card issued by the state of Georgia or the federal government
Free voter ID card issued by the state or county
U.S. passport
Valid employee ID card containing a photograph from any branch, department, agency, or entity of the U.S. Government, Georgia, or any county, municipality, board, authority or other entity of this state
Valid U.S. military identification card
Valid tribal photo ID

And here is what happens if you don't have one.

If you show up to vote and you do not have one of the acceptable forms of photo identification, you can still vote a provisional ballot. You will have up to three days after the election to present appropriate photo identification at your county registrar's office in order for your provisional ballot to be counted.

 

[Too Tall]

Not really. I think the only thing I have used my birth certificate for in the last 30 years was to get a passport. I have never had an employer request it. I think I used it for my first driver's license. If I am required to obtain a document from the state for the sole purpose of obtaining another document from the state just to be able to vote, then there should be no charge.

I understand the intent is to prevent fraud. I am fine with that. However, there should be no unintentional effect of preventing or even discouraging people from voting. If the state wishes to acheive the former, it should do so in a manner that will not create the latter. After all, we want people to vote..... don't we?

Or to get married.. or to obtain a soc card.. or to obtain other things an employer or bank or whatever would need... and when the floodgate is opened, there is always something else that can be said that is needed to obtain the things to then obtain the free ID...

There was an old lady....

I've been married for almost 40 years and have no plans to do it again soon. I already have a social security card. I have a passport. As I said, I have yet to have an employer ask for one, or a bank for that matter. Perhaps you should go to another bank. So right now, I don't need one. The point is that if I have to get a copy of my birth certificate just so I can vote, then I shouldn't have to pay for it.

Unless, of course, the intent is to discourage me from voting. But that is not the intent. The intent is to prevent fraud and just because I don't have the money to pay for a birth certificate doesn't make me guilty of fraud. Does it? Should I not be allowed to vote because I can't afford those few dollars?

You failed to mention whether or not you have a driver's license.

Move to Georgia and vote.

Here are the acceptable voter ID's in Georgia

Georgia driver’s license, even if expired
ID card issued by the state of Georgia or the federal government
Free voter ID card issued by the state or county
U.S. passport
Valid employee ID card containing a photograph from any branch, department, agency, or entity of the U.S. Government, Georgia, or any county, municipality, board, authority or other entity of this state
Valid U.S. military identification card
Valid tribal photo ID

 

[FA_Q2]

http://www.azsos.gov/election/forms/voterregistrationform.pdf

There is the voter registration form in Arizona and you can even do so online however in Arizona for example you need to establish citizenship in order to do so, which also is a fee should the person not have a documentation for the purpose of doing so and is a "poll tax" as well. My issue is NOT with the ID not is it with the registration it is with the fees needed to obtain the documentaion to register and get the ID's needed to vote. In so doing these fees qualify as a poll tax under Harper because it is a fee associated with voting.

Your assertion that someone that if they don't have A , then bring B, or C is a false one in that not all people meet those requirments and are therefor subject to those fees. The tax or fee lies in the cost to obtain the documentation for the purpose of voting, even if that fee is .5 cents to make a copy of ones utility bill.

My assertion is not false and cannot simply be discounted because it does not sit well with your argument. For all intents and purposes, there is no one that does not fit under one of those categories. If you do not have ONE SINGLE utility bill (essentially no one fits in that category) have no bank account no car whatsoever and no ID then I have no idea how you even function if the real world let alone even make it to the poll to vote. Your argument is that ancillary requirements to get an ID are somehow ‘fees’ (but driving to the poll is not even though there really is little difference) and then discount any other method that is supplied is rather asinine.

Then there is the ‘even if it is 5 cents to make a copy’ hogwash. Bring the original. They don’t actually take the bill from you; they simply verify your identity. Saying something like that is reeeeealy reaching and no different than the other poster asking about the nanny and the gas to get to the poll. IOW, pointless. Not only that, but obtaining the documents is on you to be honest. If you cannot take the time to actually get the documents to vote, then you simply do not care about voting and I don’t have the time to bother with you.


It interests me that we seem to have no problem requiring ID’s for a thousand other rights. From the right to bear arms and even to the freedom of speech ID’s can and are required to exercise in many capacities. Each right is different in where the line is drawn but simply requiring proof in order to verify your identity is not crossing the line. In the contrary, it protects MY right to not have my vote stolen by you or anyone else. I appreciate measures that protect my rights as they are so uncommon these days.

 

[tjvh]

If a person does not have a friggin' ID card I'd say that they have far more immediate problems than whether or not they can go out and vote.

 

[Dick Tuck]

. Is there a single American citizen that can get through life without any form of ID whatsoever? I highly doubt it. That person couldn't be hired w/o valid ID (IRS), couldn't collect public assistance, couldn't do pretty much anything. The term frivolous Lawsuit comes to mind.

My mother. She was deaf, so didn't have a drivers license. She had her SS number memorized. She lived in a small city her whole life, with good public transportation. Her bank knew her, so didn't hassle her for ID. She was pissed off that she couldn't rent videos after I bought her a VCR, since they required an ID. I had to go and get her the card that allowed her to rent videos. If she had to go to Motor Vehicles, which was the next city over, in an industrial area, which didn't have much in the way of public transportation, she'd have had quite a hassle. She first have to go to NYC to get her birth certificate, have to go to a notary since all she had was utility and tax bills as identification to get the birth certificate, and then have someone drive her to Motor Vehicles to wait a few hours to get a state photo id. I'd have probably have had to made the 4 hour drive, and spend a day or two going through the red tape, since most of these agencies don't have people on hand that know ASL.

IOWs, it would have been an incredible burden in time, energy, and cost, for someone who lived in a precinct where she knew or was known by most of the poll workers. Lucky she voted in every election until she passed on at the age of 87.

 

[tererun]

1. there should be an ID for voting to make the smallest of attempts to prevent voter fraud. Are we to assume the people at voting locations know who is in their district by sight? I have to show valid ID to buy alcohol, buy tobacco, go into an R rated movie, get a job, get government services, get a bank account, and many other things in this life.

2. I think that for the sake of fairness, and because it really is not that costly the state should issue free non-driver ID cards. Then you remove the whole objection.

3. Guess what, most states already register you to vote when you get your non-driver ID so you just solve so many problems by using the present infrastructure to get legitimate ID to the citizens who need it.

 

[tererun]

. Is there a single American citizen that can get through life without any form of ID whatsoever? I highly doubt it. That person couldn't be hired w/o valid ID (IRS), couldn't collect public assistance, couldn't do pretty much anything. The term frivolous Lawsuit comes to mind.

My mother. She was deaf, so didn't have a drivers license. She had her SS number memorized. She lived in a small city her whole life, with good public transportation. Her bank knew her, so didn't hassle her for ID. She was pissed off that she couldn't rent videos after I bought her a VCR, since they required an ID. I had to go and get her the card that allowed her to rent videos. If she had to go to Motor Vehicles, which was the next city over, in an industrial area, which didn't have much in the way of public transportation, she'd have had quite a hassle. She first have to go to NYC to get her birth certificate, have to go to a notary since all she had was utility and tax bills as identification to get the birth certificate, and then have someone drive her to Motor Vehicles to wait a few hours to get a state photo id. I'd have probably have had to made the 4 hour drive, and spend a day or two going through the red tape, since most of these agencies don't have people on hand that know ASL.

IOWs, it would have been an incredible burden in time, energy, and cost, for someone who lived in a precinct where she knew or was known by most of the poll workers. Lucky she voted in every election until she passed on at the age of 87.

That is great and all, but who's fault is that? It is hers for being lazy and not getting an ID. I have to get to the DMV and gather all my records also to deal with my life, and make sure i have proper ID. She is your mom, why don't you give her a ride or help her? What happens when the people at her bank retire? Does she just say the hell with her money? How do the people at the voting place now she is who she is?

Yeah, life is fucking tough, and some things suck. I don't want to be bothered with going to the DMV and getting my ID. Do you know how many hours of my life i have wasted in that place? But i want a job, and i want to drive, and i want to be able to buy alcohol without hoping the guy who knows who I am doesn't retire or get fired. Tell your mom it is just something she needs to do if she wants to vote. I am quite sure, from your own story, the woman has dealt with much harder things. Seriously, how hard is it to get to a notary? Look, it is the bank, many of them have notaries and they are all over the place. Oh look, town hall, they might have a notary in there. Oh look lawyer's offices, I bet they might have a notary or would know where one close by is.

Seriously, tell your mom to grow up a little. It just is not that hard.

 

[FA_Q2]

. Is there a single American citizen that can get through life without any form of ID whatsoever? I highly doubt it. That person couldn't be hired w/o valid ID (IRS), couldn't collect public assistance, couldn't do pretty much anything. The term frivolous Lawsuit comes to mind.

My mother. She was deaf, so didn't have a drivers license. She had her SS number memorized. She lived in a small city her whole life, with good public transportation. Her bank knew her, so didn't hassle her for ID. She was pissed off that she couldn't rent videos after I bought her a VCR, since they required an ID. I had to go and get her the card that allowed her to rent videos. If she had to go to Motor Vehicles, which was the next city over, in an industrial area, which didn't have much in the way of public transportation, she'd have had quite a hassle. She first have to go to NYC to get her birth certificate, have to go to a notary since all she had was utility and tax bills as identification to get the birth certificate, and then have someone drive her to Motor Vehicles to wait a few hours to get a state photo id. I'd have probably have had to made the 4 hour drive, and spend a day or two going through the red tape, since most of these agencies don't have people on hand that know ASL.

IOWs, it would have been an incredible burden in time, energy, and cost, for someone who lived in a precinct where she knew or was known by most of the poll workers. Lucky she voted in every election until she passed on at the age of 87.

And yet there are alternatives such as utilities in the AZ laws as well as many others. Those alternatives exist for that reason. Is there a specific states law that you have a problem with?

 

[Dick Tuck]

. Is there a single American citizen that can get through life without any form of ID whatsoever? I highly doubt it. That person couldn't be hired w/o valid ID (IRS), couldn't collect public assistance, couldn't do pretty much anything. The term frivolous Lawsuit comes to mind.

My mother. She was deaf, so didn't have a drivers license. She had her SS number memorized. She lived in a small city her whole life, with good public transportation. Her bank knew her, so didn't hassle her for ID. She was pissed off that she couldn't rent videos after I bought her a VCR, since they required an ID. I had to go and get her the card that allowed her to rent videos. If she had to go to Motor Vehicles, which was the next city over, in an industrial area, which didn't have much in the way of public transportation, she'd have had quite a hassle. She first have to go to NYC to get her birth certificate, have to go to a notary since all she had was utility and tax bills as identification to get the birth certificate, and then have someone drive her to Motor Vehicles to wait a few hours to get a state photo id. I'd have probably have had to made the 4 hour drive, and spend a day or two going through the red tape, since most of these agencies don't have people on hand that know ASL.

IOWs, it would have been an incredible burden in time, energy, and cost, for someone who lived in a precinct where she knew or was known by most of the poll workers. Lucky she voted in every election until she passed on at the age of 87.

That is great and all, but who's fault is that? It is hers for being lazy and not getting an ID. I have to get to the DMV and gather all my records also to deal with my life, and make sure i have proper ID. She is your mom, why don't you give her a ride or help her? What happens when the people at her bank retire? Does she just say the hell with her money? How do the people at the voting place now she is who she is?

Yeah, life is fucking tough, and some things suck. I don't want to be bothered with going to the DMV and getting my ID. Do you know how many hours of my life i have wasted in that place? But i want a job, and i want to drive, and i want to be able to buy alcohol without hoping the guy who knows who I am doesn't retire or get fired. Tell your mom it is just something she needs to do if she wants to vote. I am quite sure, from your own story, the woman has dealt with much harder things. Seriously, how hard is it to get to a notary? Look, it is the bank, many of them have notaries and they are all over the place. Oh look, town hall, they might have a notary in there. Oh look lawyer's offices, I bet they might have a notary or would know where one close by is.

Seriously, tell your mom to grow up a little. It just is not that hard.

What part of this don't you understand? She never needed an ID, except one time, and that was to get a card from Blockbuster. Are you really such an idiot that you don't know that many disabled and elderly don't have drivers licenses? Do you really not know that many live in cities, where you can walk or take a bus to just about everywhere, and don't need an ID?

And it's a little late to tell my mom much of anything, since she passed on. So fuck you, you little pig, if your too fucking stupid to know that there are millions in this country where having to get some ID would constitute a major hassle. This isn't Nazi Germany, where everyone was required to carry papers, as much as you'd like it to be.

 

[buckeye45_73]

. Is there a single American citizen that can get through life without any form of ID whatsoever? I highly doubt it. That person couldn't be hired w/o valid ID (IRS), couldn't collect public assistance, couldn't do pretty much anything. The term frivolous Lawsuit comes to mind.

My mother. She was deaf, so didn't have a drivers license. She had her SS number memorized. She lived in a small city her whole life, with good public transportation. Her bank knew her, so didn't hassle her for ID. She was pissed off that she couldn't rent videos after I bought her a VCR, since they required an ID. I had to go and get her the card that allowed her to rent videos. If she had to go to Motor Vehicles, which was the next city over, in an industrial area, which didn't have much in the way of public transportation, she'd have had quite a hassle. She first have to go to NYC to get her birth certificate, have to go to a notary since all she had was utility and tax bills as identification to get the birth certificate, and then have someone drive her to Motor Vehicles to wait a few hours to get a state photo id. I'd have probably have had to made the 4 hour drive, and spend a day or two going through the red tape, since most of these agencies don't have people on hand that know ASL.

IOWs, it would have been an incredible burden in time, energy, and cost, for someone who lived in a precinct where she knew or was known by most of the poll workers. Lucky she voted in every election until she passed on at the age of 87.

That is great and all, but who's fault is that? It is hers for being lazy and not getting an ID. I have to get to the DMV and gather all my records also to deal with my life, and make sure i have proper ID. She is your mom, why don't you give her a ride or help her? What happens when the people at her bank retire? Does she just say the hell with her money? How do the people at the voting place now she is who she is?

Yeah, life is fucking tough, and some things suck. I don't want to be bothered with going to the DMV and getting my ID. Do you know how many hours of my life i have wasted in that place? But i want a job, and i want to drive, and i want to be able to buy alcohol without hoping the guy who knows who I am doesn't retire or get fired. Tell your mom it is just something she needs to do if she wants to vote. I am quite sure, from your own story, the woman has dealt with much harder things. Seriously, how hard is it to get to a notary? Look, it is the bank, many of them have notaries and they are all over the place. Oh look, town hall, they might have a notary in there. Oh look lawyer's offices, I bet they might have a notary or would know where one close by is.

Seriously, tell your mom to grow up a little. It just is not that hard.

I couldnt agree more.....I approve this message

 

[buckeye45_73]

If a person does not have a friggin' ID card I'd say that they have far more immediate problems than whether or not they can go out and vote.

Preach it brother, preach it from the mountaintop!!!!!!!!

 

[buckeye45_73]

Not really. I think the only thing I have used my birth certificate for in the last 30 years was to get a passport. I have never had an employer request it. I think I used it for my first driver's license. If I am required to obtain a document from the state for the sole purpose of obtaining another document from the state just to be able to vote, then there should be no charge.

I understand the intent is to prevent fraud. I am fine with that. However, there should be no unintentional effect of preventing or even discouraging people from voting. If the state wishes to acheive the former, it should do so in a manner that will not create the latter. After all, we want people to vote..... don't we?

Have you not applied for a job lately? If so then your employer BY LAW has to fill out an I-9 document on which you have to prove your identity and your legal right to work in this country. That can be established by a passport...which establishes both...or with a driver's license or other State issued ID to prove who you are and a birth certificate to prove that you were born here. If your employer DIDN'T do this then they are breaking the law and will be in a world of hurt if their records are ever audited by the INS.

I don't have to apply for a job. What has this to do with my righ to vote?

Are you a democrat, because that would make sense. Seriously, people have crazy notion to just prove who you say you are when voting, crazy idea I know....I mean sure it's a bit cynical, but I think it's worth it.

 

[Dick Tuck]

. Is there a single American citizen that can get through life without any form of ID whatsoever? I highly doubt it. That person couldn't be hired w/o valid ID (IRS), couldn't collect public assistance, couldn't do pretty much anything. The term frivolous Lawsuit comes to mind.

My mother. She was deaf, so didn't have a drivers license. She had her SS number memorized. She lived in a small city her whole life, with good public transportation. Her bank knew her, so didn't hassle her for ID. She was pissed off that she couldn't rent videos after I bought her a VCR, since they required an ID. I had to go and get her the card that allowed her to rent videos. If she had to go to Motor Vehicles, which was the next city over, in an industrial area, which didn't have much in the way of public transportation, she'd have had quite a hassle. She first have to go to NYC to get her birth certificate, have to go to a notary since all she had was utility and tax bills as identification to get the birth certificate, and then have someone drive her to Motor Vehicles to wait a few hours to get a state photo id. I'd have probably have had to made the 4 hour drive, and spend a day or two going through the red tape, since most of these agencies don't have people on hand that know ASL.

IOWs, it would have been an incredible burden in time, energy, and cost, for someone who lived in a precinct where she knew or was known by most of the poll workers. Lucky she voted in every election until she passed on at the age of 87.

And yet there are alternatives such as utilities in the AZ laws as well as many others. Those alternatives exist for that reason. Is there a specific states law that you have a problem with?

The PA law requires a photo id. In fact one of the following:

What You Need to Know About PA's New Voter ID Law | Pennsylvania Democratic Party

Starting on November 6, you must prove your identity by showing one of the following photo IDs issued by:

The United States government, e.g., a U.S. passport
The Commonwealth of PA, e.g., a driver’s license (NOTE: An expired driver’s license is okay as long as it is within 12 months after the expiration date)
A PA municipality (e.g., city, county, borough, incorporated town) to municipal employees
An accredited PA public or private institution of higher learning, e.g., a student card
A PA care facility, which includes a long‐term care nursing facility, an assisted living residence or a personal care home
U.S. Armed Forces branches or their reserves, including the PA National Guard (NOTE: The ID holder can be a veteran or current member; the expiration date can be indefinite.)