Is doing evil a necessity of life?

[GreatestIam]

Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?

I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human.

Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.

From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct.

Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?

I do not see God as justified in punishing us and that is why Gnostic Christians like me are Universalists.

I see us all as not requiring salvation. God would not do evil by punishing us for doing what we must do to survive and thrive.

Exsultet - Wikipedia
“O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam”.
“in the light of paradise, even the sin of Adam may be regarded as truly necessary and a happy fault.”

If sin and doing evil is good and necessary for Adam, who represents all of mankind, then the church and I are suggesting that it is good that we all do evil.

It seems that nature, or God, if you are into the supernatural, ultimately, created a perfect imperfect world. To appreciate perfection, we must know imperfection. This knowledge frees the mind.

Regards
DL

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Is doing evil a necessity of life?

Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?

I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human.

Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.

From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct.

Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?

I do not see God as justified in punishing us and that is why Gnostic Christians like me are Universalists.

I see us all as not requiring salvation. God would not do evil by punishing us for doing what we must do to survive and thrive.

Exsultet - Wikipedia
“O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam”.
“in the light of paradise, even the sin of Adam may be regarded as truly necessary and a happy fault.”

If sin and doing evil is good and necessary for Adam, who represents all of mankind, then the church and I are suggesting that it is good that we all do evil.

It seems that nature, or God, if you are into the supernatural, ultimately, created a perfect imperfect world. To appreciate perfection, we must know imperfection. This knowledge frees the mind.

Regards
DL

Consider what Saul Alinsky wrote in his book, you understand how a majority of liberals are "ignorant" of new liberalism, and the rest are just plain Evil. We are not perfect, far from it, but God gave us choice to make us free. There are two(2) ideologies at War at the moment, those that follow the bible(God) and those that follow Rules for Radicals(Lucifer), which one do you follow?

Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals

Opening page - Dedication
“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history... the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”

 

[Vastator]

There is no such thing as "evil". Just differing opinions on the valuations of actions. And we all know the the old adage regarding opinions...

 

[hobelim]

There is no such thing as "evil". Just differing opinions on the valuations of actions. And we all know the the old adage regarding opinions...

Do you think that "good" is a subjective opinion as well?

I disagree.

If one person deliberately does something that cripples another person or other people for life whether literally or figuratively is that not an evil action?

If another person deliberately does something that benefits many people is that not good?


If one person claims to have the secrets to eternal life and uses that claim and other means of deception to lure other people into captivity to be used and abused for personal gain as if they were disposable possessions, is that not a great evil?



Do you just look at human life 'objectively' as if was no different than life is for the beasts caught in the eat or be eaten struggle for survival on the african plains?

Is rape plunder and pillaging not evil to you?

Do you think that the efforts of all people attempting to differentiate between good and evil for the past thousands of years was a just a big delusional waste of time?

 

[Vastator]

There is no such thing as "evil". Just differing opinions on the valuations of actions. And we all know the the old adage regarding opinions...

Do you think that "good" is a subjective opinion as well?

I disagree.

If one person deliberately does something that cripples another person or other people for life whether literally or figuratively is that not an evil action?

If another person deliberately does something that benefits many people is that not good?


If one person claims to have the secrets to eternal life and uses that claim and other means of deception to lure other people into captivity to be used and abused for personal gain as if they were disposable possessions, is that not a great evil?



Do you just look at human life 'objectively' as if was no different than life is for the beasts caught in the eat or be eaten struggle for survival on the african plains?

Is rape plunder and pillaging not evil to you?

Do you think that the efforts of all people attempting to differentiate between good and evil for the past thousands of years was a just a big delusional waste of time?

For nearly all the examples given; it would depend on which end of the stick you're on.

 

[hobelim]

There is no such thing as "evil". Just differing opinions on the valuations of actions. And we all know the the old adage regarding opinions...

Do you think that "good" is a subjective opinion as well?

I disagree.

If one person deliberately does something that cripples another person or other people for life whether literally or figuratively is that not an evil action?

If another person deliberately does something that benefits many people is that not good?


If one person claims to have the secrets to eternal life and uses that claim and other means of deception to lure other people into captivity to be used and abused for personal gain as if they were disposable possessions, is that not a great evil?



Do you just look at human life 'objectively' as if was no different than life is for the beasts caught in the eat or be eaten struggle for survival on the african plains?

Is rape plunder and pillaging not evil to you?

Do you think that the efforts of all people attempting to differentiate between good and evil for the past thousands of years was a just a big delusional waste of time?

For nearly all the examples given; it would depend on which end of the stick you're on.

Sure, but even objectively speaking, as depicted in scripture, do you not see that angels and demons - the living and the dead, all the birds of the air and wild beasts of the field in between heaven and hell, the world above and the world below, paint a picture that reflects the heights and depths of human potential that ranges between good and evil?

Don't you see all of this ascending and descending in whatever direction peoples choices take them for good or evil unfolding right here under the sun every day and night on earth ?

 

[Vastator]

There is no such thing as "evil". Just differing opinions on the valuations of actions. And we all know the the old adage regarding opinions...

Do you think that "good" is a subjective opinion as well?

I disagree.

If one person deliberately does something that cripples another person or other people for life whether literally or figuratively is that not an evil action?

If another person deliberately does something that benefits many people is that not good?


If one person claims to have the secrets to eternal life and uses that claim and other means of deception to lure other people into captivity to be used and abused for personal gain as if they were disposable possessions, is that not a great evil?



Do you just look at human life 'objectively' as if was no different than life is for the beasts caught in the eat or be eaten struggle for survival on the african plains?

Is rape plunder and pillaging not evil to you?

Do you think that the efforts of all people attempting to differentiate between good and evil for the past thousands of years was a just a big delusional waste of time?

For nearly all the examples given; it would depend on which end of the stick you're on.

Sure, but even objectively speaking, as depicted in scripture, do you not see that angels and demons - the living and the dead, all the birds of the air and wild beasts of the field in between heaven and hell, the world above and the world below, paint a picture that reflects the heights and depths of human potential that ranges between good and evil?

Don't you see all of this ascending and descending in whatever direction peoples choices take them for good or evil unfolding right here under the sun every day and night on earth ?

Nah... I see things in terms of success, or failure. Pretty much black, and white.

 

[hobelim]

There is no such thing as "evil". Just differing opinions on the valuations of actions. And we all know the the old adage regarding opinions...

Do you think that "good" is a subjective opinion as well?

I disagree.

If one person deliberately does something that cripples another person or other people for life whether literally or figuratively is that not an evil action?

If another person deliberately does something that benefits many people is that not good?


If one person claims to have the secrets to eternal life and uses that claim and other means of deception to lure other people into captivity to be used and abused for personal gain as if they were disposable possessions, is that not a great evil?



Do you just look at human life 'objectively' as if was no different than life is for the beasts caught in the eat or be eaten struggle for survival on the african plains?

Is rape plunder and pillaging not evil to you?

Do you think that the efforts of all people attempting to differentiate between good and evil for the past thousands of years was a just a big delusional waste of time?

For nearly all the examples given; it would depend on which end of the stick you're on.

Sure, but even objectively speaking, as depicted in scripture, do you not see that angels and demons - the living and the dead, all the birds of the air and wild beasts of the field in between heaven and hell, the world above and the world below, paint a picture that reflects the heights and depths of human potential that ranges between good and evil?

Don't you see all of this ascending and descending in whatever direction peoples choices take them for good or evil unfolding right here under the sun every day and night on earth ?

Nah... I see things in terms of success, or failure. Pretty much black, and white.

Pretty much black and white as in good or evil?

 

[Vastator]

There is no such thing as "evil". Just differing opinions on the valuations of actions. And we all know the the old adage regarding opinions...

Do you think that "good" is a subjective opinion as well?

I disagree.

If one person deliberately does something that cripples another person or other people for life whether literally or figuratively is that not an evil action?

If another person deliberately does something that benefits many people is that not good?


If one person claims to have the secrets to eternal life and uses that claim and other means of deception to lure other people into captivity to be used and abused for personal gain as if they were disposable possessions, is that not a great evil?



Do you just look at human life 'objectively' as if was no different than life is for the beasts caught in the eat or be eaten struggle for survival on the african plains?

Is rape plunder and pillaging not evil to you?

Do you think that the efforts of all people attempting to differentiate between good and evil for the past thousands of years was a just a big delusional waste of time?

For nearly all the examples given; it would depend on which end of the stick you're on.

Sure, but even objectively speaking, as depicted in scripture, do you not see that angels and demons - the living and the dead, all the birds of the air and wild beasts of the field in between heaven and hell, the world above and the world below, paint a picture that reflects the heights and depths of human potential that ranges between good and evil?

Don't you see all of this ascending and descending in whatever direction peoples choices take them for good or evil unfolding right here under the sun every day and night on earth ?

Nah... I see things in terms of success, or failure. Pretty much black, and white.

Pretty much black and white as in good or evil?

Nah... As in success, or failure toward achieving my desired result.

 

[hobelim]

Do you think that "good" is a subjective opinion as well?

I disagree.

If one person deliberately does something that cripples another person or other people for life whether literally or figuratively is that not an evil action?

If another person deliberately does something that benefits many people is that not good?


If one person claims to have the secrets to eternal life and uses that claim and other means of deception to lure other people into captivity to be used and abused for personal gain as if they were disposable possessions, is that not a great evil?



Do you just look at human life 'objectively' as if was no different than life is for the beasts caught in the eat or be eaten struggle for survival on the african plains?

Is rape plunder and pillaging not evil to you?

Do you think that the efforts of all people attempting to differentiate between good and evil for the past thousands of years was a just a big delusional waste of time?

For nearly all the examples given; it would depend on which end of the stick you're on.

Sure, but even objectively speaking, as depicted in scripture, do you not see that angels and demons - the living and the dead, all the birds of the air and wild beasts of the field in between heaven and hell, the world above and the world below, paint a picture that reflects the heights and depths of human potential that ranges between good and evil?

Don't you see all of this ascending and descending in whatever direction peoples choices take them for good or evil unfolding right here under the sun every day and night on earth ?

Nah... I see things in terms of success, or failure. Pretty much black, and white.

Pretty much black and white as in good or evil?

Nah... As in success, or failure toward achieving my desired result.

Do you have any boundary between what you would consider an acceptable or unacceptable means to achieve your desired results?

 

[Vastator]

For nearly all the examples given; it would depend on which end of the stick you're on.

Sure, but even objectively speaking, as depicted in scripture, do you not see that angels and demons - the living and the dead, all the birds of the air and wild beasts of the field in between heaven and hell, the world above and the world below, paint a picture that reflects the heights and depths of human potential that ranges between good and evil?

Don't you see all of this ascending and descending in whatever direction peoples choices take them for good or evil unfolding right here under the sun every day and night on earth ?

Nah... I see things in terms of success, or failure. Pretty much black, and white.

Pretty much black and white as in good or evil?

Nah... As in success, or failure toward achieving my desired result.

Do you have any boundary between what you would consider an acceptable or unacceptable means to achieve your desired results?

Yes. Its metered by my assessment of whether I can get away with it, or not. Which by default falls back on rule 1. Success or failure.

 

[hobelim]

Sure, but even objectively speaking, as depicted in scripture, do you not see that angels and demons - the living and the dead, all the birds of the air and wild beasts of the field in between heaven and hell, the world above and the world below, paint a picture that reflects the heights and depths of human potential that ranges between good and evil?

Don't you see all of this ascending and descending in whatever direction peoples choices take them for good or evil unfolding right here under the sun every day and night on earth ?

Nah... I see things in terms of success, or failure. Pretty much black, and white.

Pretty much black and white as in good or evil?

Nah... As in success, or failure toward achieving my desired result.

Do you have any boundary between what you would consider an acceptable or unacceptable means to achieve your desired results?

Yes. Its metered by my assessment of whether I can get away with it, or not. Which by default falls back on rule 1. Success or failure.

Thats not exactly what I meant.

Lets say that you were guaranteed success if you chopped your best friend up and dissolved them in acid and guaranteed failure if you didn't.

Is something like that on the menu under rule 1?

 

[Vastator]

Nah... I see things in terms of success, or failure. Pretty much black, and white.

Pretty much black and white as in good or evil?

Nah... As in success, or failure toward achieving my desired result.

Do you have any boundary between what you would consider an acceptable or unacceptable means to achieve your desired results?

Yes. Its metered by my assessment of whether I can get away with it, or not. Which by default falls back on rule 1. Success or failure.

Thats not exactly what I meant.

Lets say that you were guaranteed success if you chopped your best friend up and dissolved them in acid and guaranteed failure if you didn't.

Is something like that on the menu under rule 1?

That would depend upon "what" endeavor that succes, or failure was ulimately refering to.

 

[ding]

Is doing evil a necessity of life?

No.

Did the ancients know this and Is that why we are all named as sinners?

No.

 

[ding]

I think nature created the potential for evil in each of us because without that potential we would not have the ability to make a free choice between good and evil or evolve to find the fittest human.

Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good, so nature could not have created evil any more than nature created cold of darkness.

Consider. Evolution has two major components that we must do to survive; compete or cooperate, as required. Cooperation we would see as good because it does not create a victim or loser. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim and loser.

Evolution is anything which moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state. Natural selection has two components; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. Competition is not evil. When any idea reaches its practically complete state it rapidly expands. This is called the inflation stage. Then slight differences (i.e. diversity) work to advance the idea. This is called the equilibrium phase. During the equilibrium phase those slight differences work to advance the idea through competition until the leap is made to the next new idea (i.e. higher state) and the process begins again. We can see this process throughout nature. We even see it in the technology cycles. The reason for this is that it is the natural order.

 

[ding]

From this view, we must do evil and to survive as that process produces the fittest. To not compete would produce the least fit and we would likely go extinct.

Wrong. Men don't do evil for evil's sake. They do evil for the sake of their own good. Evil is not extant. Evil is the absence of good. One does not have to have the absence of good to compete. In fact, success is predicated by virtue. Don't you ever watch the movies where good wins out over evil in the end?

Do you see this conundrum of us having to do evil? If you do, should God punish us for doing what we must do so as not to go extinct?

No. I don't see this conundrum. I see flawed logic.

 

[ding]

I do not see God as justified in punishing us and that is why Gnostic Christians like me are Universalists.

I see us all as not requiring salvation. God would not do evil by punishing us for doing what we must do to survive and thrive.

Gnostic Christians are socialists of course you see competition as evil.

 

[Mudda]

God is evil since he sends people to burn in fire.

 

[Onyx]

Evil is one half of a perfect stick.

 

[ding]

God is evil since he sends people to burn in fire.

Since you don't believe God exists you don't believe He sends people to burn in fire.