Insurance mandate: Should the healthy pay for irresponsibility?

[uscitizen]

One major plank of ObamaCare is to force healthy, young people to pay far more for health insurance than is justified by the benefit they will receive in order to subsidize those who abuse their health and the elderly.

That is the way insurance already works.

...but it's not forced today. If someone doesn't want to have health insurance, then they don't have to.

One can opt out of paying for medicare?
And what is the penalty for an employer that fails to withhold and remit the medicare payments to the govt?

 

[Some Guy]

Someone has to pay.

I understand. Basically, your argument is that healthy people should have to pay for unhealthy people's insurance. Makes perfect sense.

 

[boedicca]

No - it is not forced and that is partly why premiums keep going up - there aren't enough healthy people paying in and, if you force insurance companies to take pre-existing conditions without requiring healthy people to pay in - the costs for the insured will skyrocket.

And the uninsured? Well....there is always the emergency room and they can't be turned away if they can not pay the costs of a catastrophic illness.

Someone has to pay.

You display a significant lack of understanding about supply vs. demand, especially when the demand is shielded from prices.

 

[Some Guy]

One can opt out of paying for medicare?

No, which is stupid. I wish Medicare would go away.

 

[boedicca]

That is the way insurance already works.

...but it's not forced today. If someone doesn't want to have health insurance, then they don't have to.

One can opt out of paying for medicare?

Medicare is not insurance for most of us are paying for it now. It's a tax. The program has a projected deficit of $37T - by the time many of us here retire, it will be bankrupt and/or benefits will be significantly reduced and/or means tested - iow, not insurance.

 

[Coyote]

Someone has to pay.

I understand. Basically, your argument is that healthy people should have to pay for unhealthy people's insurance. Makes perfect sense.

Yup. Because some day those very same people may find themselves in the same spot.

But it is also a perfect example of the tension between conservatives and liberals: individual responsibility vs societal responsibility.

 

[Coyote]

No - it is not forced and that is partly why premiums keep going up - there aren't enough healthy people paying in and, if you force insurance companies to take pre-existing conditions without requiring healthy people to pay in - the costs for the insured will skyrocket.

And the uninsured? Well....there is always the emergency room and they can't be turned away if they can not pay the costs of a catastrophic illness.

Someone has to pay.

You display a significant lack of understanding about supply vs. demand, especially when the demand is shielded from prices.

You display a significant lack of understanding in how insurance works.

 

[The Rabbi]

The problem is...we ALL pay for the uninsured when they do get sick or injured and can't afford to be repaired except in an emergency room because they don't think they should have to pay for the health problems of others - frequently cloaked in the guise of "why should I have to pay for the unhealthy choices of others". Not having insurance might be just such an "unhealthy choice".

Except that unreimbursed costs are a very small part of the health care crisis.
The biggest problem is that Medicare reimburses at less than cost. So the remainder gets spread among private payers.
The second problem is that the people using health care are not the ones paying for it. So they have no incentive to shop around and cut costs themselves.
But nice to see you back posting stupid uninformed opinions.

 

[rightwinger]

No - abusing food, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and avoiding exercise are unhealthy choices.

It's perfectly valid for a healthy person to decide that the cost of having insurance is not worth it. One major plank of ObamaCare is to force healthy, young people to pay far more for health insurance than is justified by the benefit they will receive in order to subsidize those who abuse their health and the elderly.

I don't need health insurance

I will never get sick
I will never get injured
I will never have a car accident because I am a good driver
My kids will never need a doctor
I am immune from all disease

Yea right! Until you show up at an Emergency Room with a severe condition and you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill

 

[Some Guy]

I don't need health insurance

I will never get sick
I will never get injured
I will never have a car accident because I am a good driver
My kids will never need a doctor
I am immune from all disease

Yea right! Until you show up at an Emergency Room with a severe condition and you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill

If someone decides to not buy health insurance, then gets stuck with a severe disease or injury, they should not expect to be paid for. I would think that it would be fairly easy to prove that they did or did not have the ability to pay for health insurance, and if not, should have their wages garnished to make up the cost.

I don't think anyone is making the argument here that people should be able to not have to buy insurance then rely on the government to save their ass from their own irresponsibility. I just want the right to be able to make my own decisions, and with that right, comes the consequences if i don't take the necessary precautions to take care of myself.

 

[The Rabbi]

No - abusing food, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and avoiding exercise are unhealthy choices.

It's perfectly valid for a healthy person to decide that the cost of having insurance is not worth it. One major plank of ObamaCare is to force healthy, young people to pay far more for health insurance than is justified by the benefit they will receive in order to subsidize those who abuse their health and the elderly.

I don't need health insurance

I will never get sick
I will never get injured
I will never have a car accident because I am a good driver
My kids will never need a doctor
I am immune from all disease

Yea right! Until you show up at an Emergency Room with a severe condition and you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill

Who said anything about "never"? Only you.
From the time I was 18 until I was probably over 30 I saw a doctor maybe twice. All the health insurance premiums I paid were wasted, as far as I am concerned. If someone wanted to opt out of insurance under those circumstances it would not be an unreasonable choice.

 

[Coyote]

The problem is...we ALL pay for the uninsured when they do get sick or injured and can't afford to be repaired except in an emergency room because they don't think they should have to pay for the health problems of others - frequently cloaked in the guise of "why should I have to pay for the unhealthy choices of others". Not having insurance might be just such an "unhealthy choice".

Except that unreimbursed costs are a very small part of the health care crisis.
The biggest problem is that Medicare reimburses at less than cost. So the remainder gets spread among private payers.
The second problem is that the people using health care are not the ones paying for it. So they have no incentive to shop around and cut costs themselves.
But nice to see you back posting stupid uninformed opinions.

Oh goodie, it's the retarded Rabbit again.

The first problem is, I'm not talking about Medicare.

The second problem is that insurance doesn't cover everything - in fact percentages and what is covered varies so you have out of pocket costs and yearly maximums - you pay the difference and that is enough of a dollar amount to merit shopping around or cutting costs. I do think, however there needs to be more incentive to discourage people from running to the doctor for every little thing.

 

[Coyote]

No - abusing food, drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and avoiding exercise are unhealthy choices.

It's perfectly valid for a healthy person to decide that the cost of having insurance is not worth it. One major plank of ObamaCare is to force healthy, young people to pay far more for health insurance than is justified by the benefit they will receive in order to subsidize those who abuse their health and the elderly.

I don't need health insurance

I will never get sick
I will never get injured
I will never have a car accident because I am a good driver
My kids will never need a doctor
I am immune from all disease

Yea right! Until you show up at an Emergency Room with a severe condition and you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill

Who said anything about "never"? Only you.
From the time I was 18 until I was probably over 30 I saw a doctor maybe twice. All the health insurance premiums I paid were wasted, as far as I am concerned. If someone wanted to opt out of insurance under those circumstances it would not be an unreasonable choice.

I'm the same way. I seldom need to see the doctor. What are you going to do if you get cancer and have years of expensive treatment ahead of you? Opt in?

 

[MikeHoncho]

what some of you that are for obamacare are forgetting when you say, well we still fit the bill for the people who lack insurance right now anway so what would be the difference. the difference is that there isnt a consequence for the person abusing the system. in reality people have to pay for a service, which healthcare is, and when people get that service and dont pay, there is a penalty. you have to live with the decisions you make. this obamacare FORCES EVERYONE to pay for people who dont,want,or cant pay. for people to not see something wrong with that is beyond me. you take the liberty that you have for granted.

if we want to talk about how to make things more affordable, than lets do it, but you dont have to force me to buy into something to do it. lets give up more of our freedoms. that makes sense.

 

[The Rabbi]

I don't need health insurance

I will never get sick
I will never get injured
I will never have a car accident because I am a good driver
My kids will never need a doctor
I am immune from all disease

Yea right! Until you show up at an Emergency Room with a severe condition and you expect the taxpayers to foot the bill

If someone decides to not buy health insurance, then gets stuck with a severe disease or injury, they should not expect to be paid for. I would think that it would be fairly easy to prove that they did or did not have the ability to pay for health insurance, and if not, should have their wages garnished to make up the cost.

I don't think anyone is making the argument here that people should be able to not have to buy insurance then rely on the government to save their ass from their own irresponsibility. I just want the right to be able to make my own decisions, and with that right, comes the consequences if i don't take the necessary precautions to take care of myself.

When that happens people tend to bankrupt. That's the out.

 

[Coyote]

If someone decides to not buy health insurance, then gets stuck with a severe disease or injury, they should not expect to be paid for. I would think that it would be fairly easy to prove that they did or did not have the ability to pay for health insurance, and if not, should have their wages garnished to make up the cost.

That is easy in theory. The first example (proving they could have gotten insurance) is punative and, not any different from forcing someone to buy insurance in the first place.

The second would generate little money in the first case, in light of medical costs. The biggest reason given for bankruptcy was medical bills.

I don't think anyone is making the argument here that people should be able to not have to buy insurance then rely on the government to save their ass from their own irresponsibility. I just want the right to be able to make my own decisions, and with that right, comes the consequences if i don't take the necessary precautions to take care of myself.

I can respect that, though I don't agree.

 

[The Rabbi]

The problem is...we ALL pay for the uninsured when they do get sick or injured and can't afford to be repaired except in an emergency room because they don't think they should have to pay for the health problems of others - frequently cloaked in the guise of "why should I have to pay for the unhealthy choices of others". Not having insurance might be just such an "unhealthy choice".

Except that unreimbursed costs are a very small part of the health care crisis.
The biggest problem is that Medicare reimburses at less than cost. So the remainder gets spread among private payers.
The second problem is that the people using health care are not the ones paying for it. So they have no incentive to shop around and cut costs themselves.
But nice to see you back posting stupid uninformed opinions.

Oh goodie, it's the retarded Rabbit again.

The first problem is, I'm not talking about Medicare.

The second problem is that insurance doesn't cover everything - in fact percentages and what is covered varies so you have out of pocket costs and yearly maximums - you pay the difference and that is enough of a dollar amount to merit shopping around or cutting costs. I do think, however there needs to be more incentive to discourage people from running to the doctor for every little thing.

Yeah, dumshit. You aren't talking about Medicare. But you should be, because that's a much bigger problem than unreimbursed expenses in the system.
And I have no idea what the relevance of your second paragraph is to anything.

I'm the same way. I seldom need to see the doctor. What are you going to do if you get cancer and have years of expensive treatment ahead of you? Opt in?

Go bankrupt. Like everyone else who gambles and loses. But people should be able to have that choice.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Dumbasses.. this has NOTHING to do with healthcare.. it is about naionalizing 1/6 of the U.S. economy.

 

[Coyote]

Go bankrupt. Like everyone else who gambles and loses. But people should be able to have that choice.

Except they don't just "go bankrupt". Someone has to suck it up or pays to clean up their mess.

 

[uscitizen]

The maiin part of the GOP plan seems to be to remove the states rights to regulate insurance companies doing business within their borders.