Indians: Had Enough of the Mythology?

[Mad_Cabbie]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people from every continent) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

1. "...we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over."

a. Those 'native American' savages is a subset of the primitives world wide.
b. I documented said behavior in the entire group.



2. I showed the savagery of the 'native Americans' earlier, as follows:

These 'NobleSavages' were responsible for the extinction of a number of animals.

‘One successful kill of a number of adult animals,’ wrote Wright, describing the effects on the ecosystem of a jump near Jackson Hole, ‘would havereduced the breeding potential of the local [bison] herd to a level where it was no longer a significant part of the valley ecosystem.'
Chase, Op.Cit., p. 99-100

"Until ten thousand years ago an incredible bestiary of mammals roamed North America.
These were the so-called mega-fauna, an exotic menagerie that included the woollymammoth, saber-toothed tiger, giant sloth, giant beaver, camel, horse, two-toed horse, and dire wolf. These were the dominant fauna on this continent for tens of millions of years. Then suddenly and mysteriously they disappeared."
Ibid.
Now...who could have destroyed all those animals??
There is no evidence of changing climate or habitat....



3. Your partner in stupidity claimed,earlier...and corrected it, that the Indians could not have caused extinctions because they were not present....and I corrected that misapprehension....here:
The extinction of the megafauna coincides with the time the first tribes inhabited the continente.

a. "Saber-toothed cats, American lions, woolly mammoths andother giant creaturesonce roamed across the American landscape. However, at the end of the late Pleistocene about 12,000 years ago, these "megafauna" went extinct, a die-off called the Quaternary extinction."Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats


b. "Prevailing ideas point to all Native Americans descending from ancient Siberians who moved across theBeringia land bridgebetween Asia and North America between 26,000 and 18,000 years ago. As time wore on, the thinking goes, these people spread southward and gave rise to the Native American populations encountered by European settlers centuries ago.
:History Travel Arts Science People Places Smithsonian



So....you post is simply another attempt to find anything wrong with mine....and you've failed again.

In your inane, scatter-shot way of posting, Australia somehow equates to native Americans.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

Please cut and paste (your specialty) the post where I indicated that my position was that native Americans did not cause extinctions.

I'll wait.

The insane Ravi pretended that she had some knowledge of the diets of the organisms that became extinct, and discussed them eating Indians....
...and you went with it...

Post #102...
"The tigers ate herbivores. NAs weren't herbivores.
Very good point, I don't really know if their diet was so limited, I'll check on that."

That was your opportunity to choose the correct side....and you punted.

 

[Ravi]

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

I'm curious, what animals did man arrive with that killed the megafauna?

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

^^^^ Very good, more posts like that and you will cease to be known as the village idiot!

Good post.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC is happy the "savages" were killed and contained by the Europeans.

You are dumber than a soup sandwich.

Not you you though, we have treasures like this to verify that you graduated at the top of your class.

Good job.

Ooops!

Sorry....I didn't mean to leave you out: Yours is an intellect rivaled only by garden tools.

 

[Roadrunner]

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

I'm curious, what animals did man arrive with that killed the megafauna?

I have heard it postulated in National Geographic years ago that domestic dogs brought a variety of diseases, rabies being one.

 

[Ravi]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

Please cut and paste (your specialty) the post where I indicated that my position was that native Americans did not cause extinctions.

I'll wait.

The insane Ravi pretended that she had some knowledge of the diets of the organisms that became extinct, and discussed them eating Indians....
...and you went with it...

Post #102...
"The tigers ate herbivores. NAs weren't herbivores.
Very good point, I don't really know if their diet was so limited, I'll check on that."

That was your opportunity to choose the correct side....and you punted.

Oh dear Lord! Do you ever read up on a subject before you opine on it? The tigers did eat herbivores. NAs were not herbivores. The most casual study of science will tell you this is so.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

I'm curious, what animals did man arrive with that killed the megafauna?

Both animals and man crossed the Barring Straight.

 

[Roadrunner]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

Please cut and paste (your specialty) the post where I indicated that my position was that native Americans did not cause extinctions.

I'll wait.

The insane Ravi pretended that she had some knowledge of the diets of the organisms that became extinct, and discussed them eating Indians....
...and you went with it...

Post #102...
"The tigers ate herbivores. NAs weren't herbivores.
Very good point, I don't really know if their diet was so limited, I'll check on that."

That was your opportunity to choose the correct side....and you punted.

Oh dear Lord! Do you ever read up on a subject before you opine on it? The tigers did eat herbivores. NAs were not herbivores. The most casual study of science will tell you this is so.

Wait a minute.

Are you suggesting a hungry tiger would not eat a man that was not vegan?

 

[Ravi]

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

I'm curious, what animals did man arrive with that killed the megafauna?

I have heard it postulated in National Geographic years ago that domestic dogs brought a variety of diseases, rabies being one.

Okay, I didn't think of that one. But surely the dogs were already here in the form of wolves and that is what the NAs domesticated? Is there evidence that dogs were brought with the NAs from wherever they came from?

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

Translation:

Ignorance = anyone who is not lock-step with your right-wing lunacy.

It appears that the word 'lunacy' is not one you can define....but it serves as another attempt to criticize my posts.

Of course, the right way would be to show any errors in said posts.

Not possible.

 

[Roadrunner]

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

I'm curious, what animals did man arrive with that killed the megafauna?

Both animals and man crossed the Barring Straight.

It wasn't barring anyone.

It had frozen up, and was no longer a strait.

It was a land bridge name Beringia.

Today, the Bering Strait covers it.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

PC is happy the "savages" were killed and contained by the Europeans.

You are dumber than a soup sandwich.

Not you you though, we have treasures like this to verify that you graduated at the top of your class.

Good job.

Ooops!

Sorry....I didn't mean to leave you out: Yours is an intellect rivaled only by garden tools.

Thank you, certain admonishments are actually complements with regards to who authored them ~

 

[Ravi]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

Please cut and paste (your specialty) the post where I indicated that my position was that native Americans did not cause extinctions.

I'll wait.

The insane Ravi pretended that she had some knowledge of the diets of the organisms that became extinct, and discussed them eating Indians....
...and you went with it...

Post #102...
"The tigers ate herbivores. NAs weren't herbivores.
Very good point, I don't really know if their diet was so limited, I'll check on that."

That was your opportunity to choose the correct side....and you punted.

Oh dear Lord! Do you ever read up on a subject before you opine on it? The tigers did eat herbivores. NAs were not herbivores. The most casual study of science will tell you this is so.

Wait a minute.

Are you suggesting a hungry tiger would not eat a man that was not vegan?

Nope. I'm saying they wouldn't eat them as a matter of course. And as the article I linked before shows that the tigers had plenty of prey, there would be no need for the tigers to eat humans.

 

[Roadrunner]

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

I'm curious, what animals did man arrive with that killed the megafauna?

I have heard it postulated in National Geographic years ago that domestic dogs brought a variety of diseases, rabies being one.

Okay, I didn't think of that one. But surely the dogs were already here in the form of wolves and that is what the NAs domesticated? Is there evidence that dogs were brought with the NAs from wherever they came from?

I think there is.

We'd have to do some googling, but yes, I think they brought dogs and disease.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

I'm curious, what animals did man arrive with that killed the megafauna?

Both animals and man crossed the Barring Straight.

It wasn't barring anyone.

It had frozen up, and was no longer a strait.

It was a land bridge name Beringia.

Today, the Bering Strait covers it.

Sorry, typing on my phone.

All throughout history, that area was used to facilitate migration of invasive species.

You are correct in everything you have presented.

 

[Roadrunner]

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

I'm curious, what animals did man arrive with that killed the megafauna?

No mention of dogs in first thing that came up.

I'm still looking.

Native Americans and the Bering Straits

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC, why do you hate Native Americans so much?

Another one of your attempts to deflect from your glowing ignorance...but you are so stupid that you think anyone.....other than Victoria...or Valerie....whatever her name is, would lend credence to what you say.


You remain our renewable energy source for hot air balloons.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

PC, you laugh at people you debate with, as a weapon to discredit us and our arguments out of hand.

I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything. Please provide a link to indicate otherwise, you insufferable twit.

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

Translation:

Ignorance = anyone who is not lock-step with your right-wing lunacy.

It appears that the word 'lunacy' is not one you can define....but it serves as another attempt to criticize my posts.

Of course, the right way would be to show any errors in said posts.

Not possible.

Please take a lesson from Roadrunner, he is actually making this thread readable.

 

[Roadrunner]

I laugh at ignorance.

And, have no trouble both pointing and laughing.....and documenting what I post.

"I never once stated that Native Americans did not kill off anything."
The post to which you are referring was created in response to you two begging to find a way to explain the extinctions sans blaming the savages.

You opened the door....I walked through it.

Please cut and paste (your specialty) the post where I indicated that my position was that native Americans did not cause extinctions.

I'll wait.

The insane Ravi pretended that she had some knowledge of the diets of the organisms that became extinct, and discussed them eating Indians....
...and you went with it...

Post #102...
"The tigers ate herbivores. NAs weren't herbivores.
Very good point, I don't really know if their diet was so limited, I'll check on that."

That was your opportunity to choose the correct side....and you punted.

Oh dear Lord! Do you ever read up on a subject before you opine on it? The tigers did eat herbivores. NAs were not herbivores. The most casual study of science will tell you this is so.

Wait a minute.

Are you suggesting a hungry tiger would not eat a man that was not vegan?

Nope. I'm saying they wouldn't eat them as a matter of course. And as the article I linked before shows that the tigers had plenty of prey, there would be no need for the tigers to eat humans.

Humans are weak.

Great reason to hunt them.

 

[Roadrunner]

Here I am laughing at you two, TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber, trying so hard to avoid the truth:

The savages destroyed so many of the animals that many disappeared from the planet.

And that is the theme of this thread.....primitives, savages, stone-age cultures destroy, kill, and ravage, and that refers to the environment as well as any fauna they come across.


Your attitude toward said cultures is exactly why I posted this thread. I hope I have disabused you of early attitude and beliefs.....
...although you have yet to withdraw you complaint about them being called "savages."




In any case....here is more in the way of documentation of the way the savages acted:

14. The guesswork and presumption on the part of you, and the brilliant Ravi are laughable....but only in the way that Lord Byron meant laugh...

"And if I laugh at any mortal thing,

’Tis that I may not weep;"

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The historical record provides proof that you two would rather ignore: the extinctions were due to the savage behavior of the primitives.....everywhere!


No matter the animal....primitives found ways to kill them.


a. " When the Aborigines arrived in Australia the fauna ‘included a large variety of monotremes and marsupials, including ‘giant’ forms of macropodids (kangaroos and related species). Within 15,000 years all were extinct."
Alvard, M.S., ‘Conservation by Native Peoples: Prey Choice in a Depleted Habitat’, Human Nature, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1994, pp.127-154, citing Horton, J., 'Red Kangaroos: Last of the Australian Megafauna' in Martin, P., and Klein, R., (eds.) Quartenary Extinctions, Tuscon: University and Murray, P., 'Extinctions Down Under: A Bestiary of Extinct Australian Late Pleistocene Monotremes and Marsupials, in Martin, P. and Klein, R.


b. "The ‘prime peoples’ of Madagascar hunted several species of giant lemurs to extinction."
Dewar, R., 'Extinctions in Madagascar: The Loss of the Subfossil Fauna’


c. "The arrival of the Maoris in New Zealand was quickly followed by the extinction of 34 species of birds."
Alvard, M.S., Op.Cit


c. As Matt Ridley puts it, ‘the first Maoris sat down and ate their way through all twelve species of the giant moa birds’, leaving about a third of the meat to rot, and entire ovens stuffed with roast haunches unopened, so plentiful was the initial supply.
Ridley, M., "The Origins of Virtue," p.219




15. Peter Martin developed what has become known as the ‘Overkill Hypothesis’ to explain the disappearance of large number of species - particularly mammal species - over the relatively short time-span of a few thousand years following the arrival of humans on the different continents. He argued that, where animals had plenty of time to get used to humans, as in Europe and Africa where homo sapiens first appeared, they learned to be cautious.

It was the arrival of man in Australia and America which was particularly devastating as the animals did not know what to expect and provided easy targets. North America lost 73 per cent of its large mammalian species, South America 79 per cent, Australia 86 per cent, but Africa only 14 per cent.
Peter Ward, "The End of Evolution: Dinosaurs, Mass Extinction and Biodiversity," p. 202.

^^^ Typical PC, blames "savages" (read, pre historic people the world over) for mass extinctions.

staggers the imagination - we are talking about native Americans, and PC moves the goal posts to include primitive humans the world over.

AGW caused by cave men lighting farts killed off the Ice Age mammals and raised the ocean levels hundreds of feet.

Thank God for that, I fuckin' HATE being cold.

And getting run over by mega-fauna!

^^^^ No one actually expects you to ever contribute to thread -- please, carry on.

Kiss my ass.

I have a right to be facetious.

You want serious discussion, ok.

The arrival of man, and his animals, and their diseases, coupled with climate change and an inability to adapt, killed the Ice Age Megafauna.

It cannot be blamed on any one factor, in my opinion and from what I have read.

We survived global warming that raised the seas hundreds of feet; we will survive another few feet.

^^^^ Very good, more posts like that and you will cease to be known as the village idiot!

Good post.

Fuck yourself, asshole.