Illinois governor strikes blow for taxapyers...q

[thereisnospoon]

It's not kids who TP the houses of rich people on Halloween, it's you.
I have not seen as much vitriol versus those who are of means from hundreds of people as I see from you.
You are part of the group that has not only demonized wealth but would if you could, criminalize it.
Look. You are a dinosaur. Your way of thinking is over.
Collectivism in any form does not work.

THe Plutocrat scum just spent a billion dollars trying to steal back the government and it didn't work....

The sad thing is, they could have been sensible. They could have had fair wages and fair taxation, and they still would have been fine.

As a REPUBLICAN said,

The problem with Capitalism is Capitalists... they are too damned greedy- Herbert Hoover.

Or a Communist -

A Capitalist will sell the Communist the rope that he's hung with. - Vladimir Lenin.

Yep...UNION!!!! We believe!
Facepalm.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[q

If unions are so fucking good then let them fund themselves and let them stop sucking off the private sector teat.

Um... the rich don't create wealth.

Consumer activity creates wealth.

A rich guy could open a factory that made shit sandwiches, and no one would buy them. (Well, maybe stupid people in the south for a while.)

You mistake a parasite for a vital organ.

Wealth creates wealth. Wealth creates the marketplace from which all other economic activity is derived.
This is like acid in your cornflakes.
Your hostility is irrational.

 

[JoeB131]

Guy, I think you missed the result of the last election.

Working people won. Plutocrats lost.

Now, yeah, we are going to see some rough times ahead when people have realized how badly the Plutocrats have screwed them in the last 30 years...

But Unions will be stronger at the end of it, not weaker.

Not in the states, both legislative and governors.

Meeeh, not really... The Teabaggers forgot to mention that all those "Government workers" are in fact people's neighbors who work in teh schools, the police stations and the firehouses.

There will be some changes in how things are done and their should be, but the smack talking is going to come to an end real soon.

 

[JoeB131]

Wealth creates wealth. Wealth creates the marketplace from which all other economic activity is derived.
This is like acid in your cornflakes.
Your hostility is irrational.

I'll end this discussion by quoting the Greatest of All Republicans. (Perhaps All Americans.)

Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
- Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are still free to work for yourself you know. Why do you feel the need to work for someone else and then say you have the right to walk off your job and not be fired?

 

[blastoff]

Any time a union takes one in the nuts it's a great day in America.

 

[JoeB131]

You are still free to work for yourself you know. Why do you feel the need to work for someone else and then say you have the right to walk off your job and not be fired?

And when I work for someone else, I expect them to keep their promises and not lie to me.

And frankly, if that's too much, then we need the government to make sure they keep their promises and not lie to me.

Unlike the time in 1995, when they ASSURED us that they were not closing down our plant after they opened a new plant in Milwaukee they had us come up and help them set up using MANDETORY overtime to do so. They closed down our plant in 1996, but they were out of business by 1997 because they couldn't serve the market as well.

Or the time in 2007, when I ran up a lot of medical bills, and they transfered me into a postion they knew would phase out in a year.

Now, if we had decent people running companies who didn't massively benefit from being dickweeds, who did the right thing instead of the profitable thing, we wouldn't need unions or government.

Sadly, that's not the way the world works. Oh, wait. No, much of the rest of the world DOES work that way. America doesn't - yet.

 

[JoeB131]

Any time a union takes one in the nuts it's a great day in America.

Any time plutocrat takes on in the nuts, it's a better day for America!

 

[editec]

Guy, I think you missed the result of the last election.

Working people won. Plutocrats lost.

Now, yeah, we are going to see some rough times ahead when people have realized how badly the Plutocrats have screwed them in the last 30 years...

But Unions will be stronger at the end of it, not weaker.

Joe, THAT I rather doubt.

You are aware, are you not, that OBama has signed three new FREE TRADE agreements recently, right?


I mean, if free trade is the root cause of the decline in unionism (and I think it certainly is), then signing still more free trade agreements with still more nations doesn't seem like the DNC is truly concerned about the American middle class.

Talk is cheap.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You are still free to work for yourself you know. Why do you feel the need to work for someone else and then say you have the right to walk off your job and not be fired?

And when I work for someone else, I expect them to keep their promises and not lie to me.

You have shown no evidence of lying.

And frankly, if that's too much, then we need the government to make sure they keep their promises and not lie to me.

There are already provisions in contract law for that. If you entered into a contract and the other party did not meet their obligations then you can sue.

Unlike the time in 1995, when they ASSURED us that they were not closing down our plant after they opened a new plant in Milwaukee they had us come up and help them set up using MANDETORY overtime to do so. They closed down our plant in 1996, but they were out of business by 1997 because they couldn't serve the market as well.

As an employee you are not privy to executive decisions are you? And quite frankly you shouldn't be. If you work for someone else and they go out of business thenn too bad for you. It's the risk you take being an employee.

Or the time in 2007, when I ran up a lot of medical bills, and they transfered me into a postion they knew would phase out in a year.

Sniff. Tissue?

Now, if we had decent people running companies who didn't massively benefit from being dickweeds, who did the right thing instead of the profitable thing, we wouldn't need unions or government.

Sadly, that's not the way the world works. Oh, wait. No, much of the rest of the world DOES work that way. America doesn't - yet.

If companies don't do the profitable thing then they will not exist now will they and then where would you work?

And tell me why do you believe you have the right to walk off a job and not be fired?

Because in that case it is you who are in breech of contract.

 

[Meathead]

Unions are history. They cannot be afforded any more. No business that wants to survive in today's globalized economy is going to overpay union employees when they can get the equivalent labor at cheaper cost elsewhere. Obama may have won the election but has no mandate. He also wisely kept his distance form Wisconsin, a state where Obama won by a respectable margin, but unions lost time and time again. It's over. The time of the unions is gone.

 

[JoeB131]

Hey, fugnut... I don't have a contract. In fact, very specifically. they state "this is not a contract".

You guys claimed that if we just let the rich do whatever the fuck they wanted, we'd get prosperity.

Instead, they ran the country into the ground.

Time for show trials.

 

[Two Thumbs]

By terminating state public employee union deal with AFSCME..
It's about time. And this from a liberal democrat governor.
Governor cancels deal with AFSCME
Quinn cancels contract with state
This further bolsters the fact that public employee union deals are no longer sustainable.
It is time to rein in these unions and quite possibly get rid of them entirely.
A democrat governor in a heavily liberal state has no doubt sent shock waves through the rest of the big union states where unions have driven up the cost of state and local government.
It is apparent that Governor Quinn is though worrying about whether union members will have his back come next election. He has done the right thing and drawn a line in the sand for all Illinois taxpayers.

My Dad would be so happy to hear this.

He hated the union b/c people just couldn't get fired unless they really screwed up on a regular basis.

He was one of the few people that cared and knew most of the others that cared as well.

 

[blastoff]

Any time a union takes one in the nuts it's a great day in America.

Any time plutocrat takes on in the nuts, it's a better day for America!

Any time a liberal takes on in the nuts...oh, wait, that's impossible. They don't have balls.

 

[JoeB131]

Hey, guy, not my fault you guys nominated a Weird Mormon Robot that exposed what Plutocracy really means for most of us...

The GOP should have won this election. They lost it instead.

It's kind of like that Batman movie,w here the Penguin gets caught saying what he really thinks about people.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Guy, I think you missed the result of the last election.

Working people won. Plutocrats lost.

Now, yeah, we are going to see some rough times ahead when people have realized how badly the Plutocrats have screwed them in the last 30 years...

But Unions will be stronger at the end of it, not weaker.

Not in the states, both legislative and governors.

Meeeh, not really... The Teabaggers forgot to mention that all those "Government workers" are in fact people's neighbors who work in teh schools, the police stations and the firehouses.

There will be some changes in how things are done and their should be, but the smack talking is going to come to an end real soon.

What the fuck does that have to do with the post to which you are responding?
Yours is the all or nothing straw man argument.
No one is even considering what you suggest.
The issue here is wages and benefits of unionized public employees have gotten out of control. So much so that cities are declaring bankruptcy, taxpayers are moving out of high tax states and now even a DEMOCRAT governor has shut down a large public employee union contract.
The goal here is balance. That is to balance the compensation to the costs to the very people that fund that compensation.
Please tell me you do not think a 15 year police officer in quiet Upper Montclair NJ should be paid over $120,000 per year..BEFORE overtime benefits and pension contribution?
That is an absurd amount of money..
In my home town of 4,700 people where a police officer has not fired a gun in over 50 years, the STARTING salary for a police officer with a 4 year degree is almost $70k per year. I have two former school mate who make in excess of $100,000 per year. Now really, is that realistic? Here is an example of these wages.
The town in question is a small borough in Northern NJ.
Note the first column...You'll the numeral "3"..this represents the pension system under which these employees are paid. These are all police officers. Look to the right...You will see their salary. Again, this does not include their medical and pension benefits to which government employees contribute very little of their wages. The taxpayers fund 95% of these benefits.
Again, this is absurd. Is it any wonder the typical home owner in this region is paying over $1,000 per month or more in property taxes....

Fund Name Year Of Birth
Group Code

Employer Salary Tot. Salary* Years veteran code enrollment date
3 lookup SHINE, THOMAS, M 1957 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $168,328 $168,328 32 11011979
3 lookup BUTLER, JAMES, S 1959 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $143,124 $143,124 24 9011987
3 lookup DORNEY, KEVIN, S 1963 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $143,124 $143,124 29 4011982
3 lookup TRACY, JOSEPH, J 1966 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $129,892 $129,892 26 10011985
3 lookup TERJANIAN, BRETT, S 1973 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $129,340 $129,340 16 8011995
3 lookup WACHT, ROBERT, 1967 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $127,140 $127,140 16 12011995
3 lookup JEFFAS, TIMOTHY, C 1957 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $126,588 $126,588 24 9011987
3 lookup ROTHENBURGER, JASON, 1975 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $125,488 $125,488 14 2011997
3 lookup MIELE, PETER, J 1968 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $121,084 $121,084 15 1041997
3 lookup WEAVER, KATHRYN, J 1981 1 lookup OLD TAPPAN BOROUGH $119,984 $119,984 9 6012002

 

[JoeB131]

[
What the fuck does that have to do with the post to which you are responding?
Yours is the all or nothing straw man argument.
No one is even considering what you suggest.
The issue here is wages and benefits of unionized public employees have gotten out of control. So much so that cities are declaring bankruptcy, taxpayers are moving out of high tax states and now even a DEMOCRAT governor has shut down a large public employee union contract.
The goal here is balance. That is to balance the compensation to the costs to the very people that fund that compensation.
Please tell me you do not think a 15 year police officer in quiet Upper Montclair NJ should be paid over $120,000 per year..BEFORE overtime benefits and pension contribution?
That is an absurd amount of money..

Again, how is a policeman (a guy who might well be shot at in the course of his job) being paid "excessively" at 120K, but the CEO of Hostess, who so badly mismanaged his company that they are in bankruptcy and liquidation, totally worth 3 Million?

The real problem isn't that these guys are making too much. It's that the rest of the working class folks are making too little, mostly to fund the transfer of wealth to the top 1%, which you seem to have no problem with...

So why do you hate working people so much?

 

[thereisnospoon]

You are still free to work for yourself you know. Why do you feel the need to work for someone else and then say you have the right to walk off your job and not be fired?

And when I work for someone else, I expect them to keep their promises and not lie to me.

And frankly, if that's too much, then we need the government to make sure they keep their promises and not lie to me.

Unlike the time in 1995, when they ASSURED us that they were not closing down our plant after they opened a new plant in Milwaukee they had us come up and help them set up using MANDETORY overtime to do so. They closed down our plant in 1996, but they were out of business by 1997 because they couldn't serve the market as well.

Or the time in 2007, when I ran up a lot of medical bills, and they transfered me into a postion they knew would phase out in a year.

Now, if we had decent people running companies who didn't massively benefit from being dickweeds, who did the right thing instead of the profitable thing, we wouldn't need unions or government.

Sadly, that's not the way the world works. Oh, wait. No, much of the rest of the world DOES work that way. America doesn't - yet.

What promises are those? Labor or I should say the employer employee relationship is a non binding agreement. The employee agrees to perform assigned tasks at a certain level or performance. The employer agrees to compensate the employee for said tasks. That is provided the tasks are performed to the employer's satisfaction.. That's it!
You were well compensated for you torturous mandatory overtime. So what?
Your employer is under no obligation to offer you assurances of any kind. Who told you any different? In fact, whomever convinced you of that was living in the same fantasy world as you. Unreal.
You say a medical condition cost you your employment. Then you say the new plant's inefficiency caused you to lose your job. Then you say you were transferred to a new position that the employer had planned to phase out. It's all about you.
Did it ever occur to you that it was YOU and your performance of your duties which cost you your employment?..
Judging by your attitude here, did it ever occur to you that it possible your employer thought you were a malcontent..Or simply believed you'd be happier working elsewhere?
Look, I have no idea how it is that people such as yourself got the idea that a business owes you a job, owes you permanence of employment, owes you low or no cost medical insurance or owes you a salary after you decide to permanently stop working.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[
What the fuck does that have to do with the post to which you are responding?
Yours is the all or nothing straw man argument.
No one is even considering what you suggest.
The issue here is wages and benefits of unionized public employees have gotten out of control. So much so that cities are declaring bankruptcy, taxpayers are moving out of high tax states and now even a DEMOCRAT governor has shut down a large public employee union contract.
The goal here is balance. That is to balance the compensation to the costs to the very people that fund that compensation.
Please tell me you do not think a 15 year police officer in quiet Upper Montclair NJ should be paid over $120,000 per year..BEFORE overtime benefits and pension contribution?
That is an absurd amount of money..

Again, how is a policeman (a guy who might well be shot at in the course of his job) being paid "excessively" at 120K, but the CEO of Hostess, who so badly mismanaged his company that they are in bankruptcy and liquidation, totally worth 3 Million?

The real problem isn't that these guys are making too much. It's that the rest of the working class folks are making too little, mostly to fund the transfer of wealth to the top 1%, which you seem to have no problem with...

So why do you hate working people so much?

I see you are not in touch. These wages are not sustainable. Look at the taxes!! The homeowners are being taxed out of their homes. I guess that matters not to you.
Sheesh.
You obviously do not understand the meaning of balance.
Oh, stop with the nonsense about CEO's and such. They are PRIVATE SECTOR. No one is forced to pay the wages of the private sector. We simply take our business elsewhere. The only escape from the compensation of public employees is to leave the area where those exist.

 

[JoeB131]

[
I see you are not in touch. These wages are not sustainable. Look at the taxes!! The homeowners are being taxed out of their homes. I guess that matters not to you.
Sheesh.
You obviously do not understand the meaning of balance.
Oh, stop with the nonsense about CEO's and such. They are PRIVATE SECTOR. No one is forced to pay the wages of the private sector. We simply take our business elsewhere. The only escape from the compensation of public employees is to leave the area where those exist.

If we taxed the wealthy at Pre-Reagan levels, they'd be sustainable.

Everything else you say is "blah, blah, blah" it's so unfair some working people haven't bent over yet."