CDZ IL or CA and Why

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by william the wie, Jan 2, 2018.

?

CA or IL

  1. CA

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. IL

    5 vote(s)
    71.4%
  3. Five states go under

    1 vote(s)
    14.3%
  4. fifteen go under

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. william the wie
    Offline

    william the wie Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    13,887
    Thanks Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +6,633
    IL is tiptoeing to junk status and has been doing so for decades. CA is refusing to spend money for safety, is raising taxes and already has one of the worst out migration rates of any of the 50 States 5-15 states were in fiscal trouble under Obama and the Trump tax bill made the trouble worse starting today. IL or CA are the most likely triggers for 5-15 states being pulled into really deep trouble ranging from bond down grades to insolvency. So, IL or CA and 5 or 15 states getting into deep trouble. What's your call?
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. Asclepias
    Offline

    Asclepias Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    90,256
    Thanks Received:
    7,905
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Location:
    Breathing rarified air.
    Ratings:
    +31,223
    Where are you getting your stats? Real estate is going up here in Cali.
     
  3. BradVesp
    Offline

    BradVesp Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    153
    Thanks Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    Chicago
    Ratings:
    +61
    I could re-post the reason it can't be Illinois. Basically, there's no mechanism for the state legislature, judiciary, or governor to declare insolvency nor bankruptcy.
    (honestly, though, there's a lot I don't know)
     
  4. TheOldSchool
    Offline

    TheOldSchool BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    62,631
    Thanks Received:
    9,981
    Trophy Points:
    2,070
    Location:
    last stop for sanity before reaching the south
    Ratings:
    +43,068
    If Trump's tax cuts really do cause states to default, then the national debt will take a massive hit. Slashing tax revenue at the same time as bailing out a bunch of states is going to be ugly.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. depotoo
    Offline

    depotoo Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    28,007
    Thanks Received:
    6,324
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +18,614
    For bankruptcy, true. Not for insolvency, according to Prof Giertz-
    "States can't go bankrupt, but they can become insolvent since they can't pay their bills. The question then is, what do you do then?" Giertz said.
    Professor J. Fred Giertz, an economist who is director of the University of Illinois' Institute of Government and public Affairs.
    State can't declare bankruptcy
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. bear513
    Offline

    bear513 BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    46,767
    Thanks Received:
    6,052
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +30,804
    You never even bother to pay attention to your own state politics?


    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/government/fiscal-stability



    Best States for Fiscal Stability
    Fiscal Stability Rank State
    #1 ND
    #2 WY
    #3 TX
    #4 NC
    #5 SD
    #6 VT
    #7 TN
    #8 IN
    #9 UT
    #10 FL
    #11 VA
    #12 ID
    #13 DE
    #14 GA
    #15 WI
    #16 IA
    #17 MD
    #18 WA
    #19 SC
    #20 NH
    #21 MO
    #22 NY
    #23 NE
    #24 CO
    #25 AK
    #26 OK
    #27 MN
    #28 AR
    #29 MA
    #30 WV
    #31 MI
    #32 AZ
    #33 MT
    #34 AL
    #35 OR
    #36 KS
    #37 RI
    #38 ME
    #39 NM
    #40 PA
    #41 HI
    #42 OH
    #43 CA
    #44 NV
    #45 MS
    #46 LA
    #47 CT
    #48 KY
    #49 NJ
    #50 IL
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
  7. Ridgerunner
    Offline

    Ridgerunner 'Ole Wise One' Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2016
    Messages:
    5,489
    Thanks Received:
    2,295
    Trophy Points:
    1,095
    Location:
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    Ratings:
    +8,565
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. Asclepias
    Offline

    Asclepias Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    90,256
    Thanks Received:
    7,905
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Location:
    Breathing rarified air.
    Ratings:
    +31,223
    Did you actually read it? CA is #23 on the Best states list.

    From your link.

    "California, the most populous state in the nation, is home to Hollywood’s stars, Silicon Valley’s technology, Napa Valley’s wines and ancient Redwood and Sequoia forests. The Golden State also is one of the country’s wealthiest and most socially and politically influential, and has been since it became a state nearly 170 years ago."
     
  9. william the wie
    Offline

    william the wie Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2009
    Messages:
    13,887
    Thanks Received:
    1,742
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +6,633
    Insolvency occurs when the bondholders refuse to roll over the debt. Then they, the non IL resident bond holders sue in federal court under the takings cause and Caterpillar and the commodities markets move elsewhere. That is when the state finds a way to get into Chapter 3 come hell or high water.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  10. bear513
    Offline

    bear513 BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    46,767
    Thanks Received:
    6,052
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +30,804

    What does that have to do with bad fiscal management by the state? What you never paid attention that California has a huge Unfunded Union pension bubble ready to burst?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1

Share This Page