If you hate Islam but supported Iraq......

[geauxtohell]

More succinctly: If you think Islam embraces an inherently evil doctrine that can not be refined, how could you support nation building in an Islamic country?

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." - Mann Coulter, 9/14/2001​

She's atrocious. I don't view her as any sort of legitimate commentator on policy. She's really just a political shock jock.

You have to give her some credit though, she's hoodwinked people into buying the same book with a different cover like six times over.

 

[cad]

let me ask you this.

what if you hate islam, think it to be a religion stuck in the 1300's, and you believe democracy is the only cure for the disease that is the sick religion. give people more freedom and they will naturally drift away from religion (as so much of the western world has done) you can argue that iraq is more religious now than it was under saddam, but you can also argue they have more freedoms as well.

a democratic iraq is a bigger threat to iran than a nuclear israel. i think that was the real reason for war in iraq.

 

[geauxtohell]

let me ask you this.

what if you hate islam, think it to be a religion stuck in the 1300's, and you believe democracy is the only cure for the disease that is the sick religion. give people more freedom and they will naturally drift away from religion (as so much of the western world has done) you can argue that iraq is more religious now than it was under saddam, but you can also argue they have more freedoms as well.

a democratic iraq is a bigger threat to iran than a nuclear israel. i think that was the real reason for war in iraq.

Maybe you should start a separate thread on it.

 

[Kalam]

She's atrocious. I don't view her as any sort of legitimate commentator on policy. She's really just a political shock jock.

All very true. Converting everybody to Christianity was the only way I could think of reconciling hatred for Islam with support for the war.

You have to give her some credit though, she's hoodwinked people into buying the same book with a different cover like six times over.

Only barely different, which makes her success even more impressive.

http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/anncgodless2.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee294/sss1977/15.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HyyDHyAwI6k/SWEcMne-s0I/AAAAAAAAEVQ/p9yiGDHDaOM/s400/coulter+guilty.jpg

 

[cad]

She's atrocious. I don't view her as any sort of legitimate commentator on policy. She's really just a political shock jock.

All very true. Converting everybody to Christianity was the only way I could think of reconciling hatred for Islam with support for the war.

You have to give her some credit though, she's hoodwinked people into buying the same book with a different cover like six times over.

Only barely different, which makes her success even more impressive.

http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/anncgodless2.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee294/sss1977/15.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HyyDHyAwI6k/SWEcMne-s0I/AAAAAAAAEVQ/p9yiGDHDaOM/s400/coulter+guilty.jpg

so what's wrong with hating islam and believing democracy and freedom is the way to combat it?

so let me get this straight. we went to war to (a) get iraq's oil and (b) convert them to christianity.

we really failed miserably.

 

[geauxtohell]

She's atrocious. I don't view her as any sort of legitimate commentator on policy. She's really just a political shock jock.

All very true. Converting everybody to Christianity was the only way I could think of reconciling hatred for Islam with support for the war.

You have to give her some credit though, she's hoodwinked people into buying the same book with a different cover like six times over.

Only barely different, which makes her success even more impressive.

http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/anncgodless2.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee294/sss1977/15.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HyyDHyAwI6k/SWEcMne-s0I/AAAAAAAAEVQ/p9yiGDHDaOM/s400/coulter+guilty.jpg

so what's wrong with hating islam and believing democracy and freedom is the way to combat it?

so let me get this straight. we went to war to (a) get iraq's oil and (b) convert them to christianity.

we really failed miserably.

I suppose that would boil down to just why you hate Islam.

 

[Kalam]

so what's wrong with hating islam and believing democracy and freedom is the way to combat it?

The fact that it's oxymoronic. If you forcibly impose what you believe to be freedom on others, you aren't freeing them. I don't care if you hate Islam as long as you don't needlessly interfere in the affairs of the Islamic world.

so let me get this straight. we went to war to (a) get iraq's oil and (b) convert them to christianity.

we really failed miserably.

That isn't what I said at all. This question was posed:

"How do you reconcile the fact that you supported a war that relied largely on the notion that we could empower a moderate faction of a religion that you think is incapable of having a moderate faction?"​

I responded by saying that some people may support converting them to Christianity.

 

[rdean]

excellent non answer.

Because it was a non-question.

uh, no, it was a definite question.

How do you reconcile the fact that you supported a war that relied largely on the notion that we could empower a moderate faction of a religion that you think is incapable of having a moderate faction?

Just curious. It's a question I have often asked warhawk Islamophobes and have never really gotten a good answer.

More succinctly: If you think Islam embraces an inherently evil doctrine that can not be refined, how could you support nation building in an Islamic country?

see? you wanna take a crack at it?

Brilliant!

 

[007]

A WillowTree post is like eating a delicious slice of irony pie a la mode!

It would be like saying "Those fucking ******* are so racist!"

UH - OH....

... you know what happened to Dr. Laura for saying the ... N word... she quit radio. Does this mean you're going to quit the board?

 

[cad]

so what's wrong with hating islam and believing democracy and freedom is the way to combat it?

The fact that it's oxymoronic. If you forcibly impose what you believe to be freedom on others, you aren't freeing them. I don't care if you hate Islam as long as you don't needlessly interfere in the affairs of the Islamic world.

so let me get this straight. we went to war to (a) get iraq's oil and (b) convert them to christianity.

we really failed miserably.

That isn't what I said at all. This question was posed:

"How do you reconcile the fact that you supported a war that relied largely on the notion that we could empower a moderate faction of a religion that you think is incapable of having a moderate faction?"​

I responded by saying that some people may support converting them to Christianity.

i know you didn't say that. i was combining your comment about converting them to christianity with the common theme that we went to war with iraq to control their oil.

i just have a hard time seeing how the US "getting rid of your dictator and allowing you to vote for you next president" is such a horrible thing. and yes, i will admit that's me just being an arrogant american. i don't know, maybe in the islamic world, saddam hussein's iraq is a model of freedom. or iran is a beacon of freedom.
i really have to plead ignorance. you obviously know more than i do. what is the model of freedom in the muslim world?

it seems obvious, based on the treatment of women, we have different ideas of what freedom means.

and kalam, i know what i wrote came off as sarcastic, but it's not meant to be. i might be very naive to think that i have a lot of freedoms here, and i think it would be better if more islamic countries shared those same freedoms. i think if that happened, the world would be safer. it would also mean islam would have less of a grip over its people (much like christianity has lost influence in the western world)

 

[rdean]

Irony are the right wingers who "ASSUME" that Christianity is more "gentle" and "loving" than Islam.

The truth is the western nations were able to throw off the oppressive yolk of religious righteousness and keep it off.

Some religious leaders in this country said that Katrina and 9/11 were judgments sent by God for allowing gays and feminists. Westerners have had a few hundred years of practice laughing at such nonsense, but suppose they hadn't. Republicans would be going after gays and feminists worse than they do going after the Hispanics.

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. Jeremiah 48:10 NAB

(Jesus speaking) "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man 'against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household'". Matthew 10:34-36 NAB

 

[ConHog]

Irony are the right wingers who "ASSUME" that Christianity is more "gentle" and "loving" than Islam.

The truth is the western nations were able to throw off the oppressive yolk of religious righteousness and keep it off.

Some religious leaders in this country said that Katrina and 9/11 were judgments sent by God for allowing gays and feminists. Westerners have had a few hundred years of practice laughing at such nonsense, but suppose they hadn't. Republicans would be going after gays and feminists worse than they do going after the Hispanics.

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. Jeremiah 48:10 NAB

(Jesus speaking) "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man 'against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household'". Matthew 10:34-36 NAB

Yes yes, we get it, you to hate Christianity. odd that that is acceptable, but let someone say they hate Islam and OMG.

 

[rdean]

Irony are the right wingers who "ASSUME" that Christianity is more "gentle" and "loving" than Islam.

The truth is the western nations were able to throw off the oppressive yolk of religious righteousness and keep it off.

Some religious leaders in this country said that Katrina and 9/11 were judgments sent by God for allowing gays and feminists. Westerners have had a few hundred years of practice laughing at such nonsense, but suppose they hadn't. Republicans would be going after gays and feminists worse than they do going after the Hispanics.

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. Jeremiah 48:10 NAB

(Jesus speaking) "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man 'against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household'". Matthew 10:34-36 NAB

Yes yes, we get it, you to hate Christianity. odd that that is acceptable, but let someone say they hate Islam and OMG.

Believe me, I respect all religions "equally".

They are ALL "equal" in my eyes.

Muslims are only doing what many Christians in this country wish they could do here. Ask Fred, he'll tell you.

 

[Political Junky]

A WillowTree post is like eating a delicious slice of irony pie a la mode!

It would be like saying "Those fucking ******* are so racist!"

UH - OH....

... you know what happened to Dr. Laura for saying the ... N word... she quit radio. Does this mean you're going to quit the board?

I think Laura was fired.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The war in Iraq was not intended to empower anyone, it was intended to take one tyrant, Saddam Hussein, out of power. The only way your question makes any sense is if we assume that rdean is correct that we meant to set up an Islamic theocracy. It isn't my fault you phased your question to support this if it was not your intent.

Actually, it was intended to take out WMDs.

After that went bust, it became about spreading democracy and our tactics for the overwhelming time we were there relied on creating a moderate Islamic state.

Now that we have cleared that up, do you care to comment on the question at hand, or are you going to continue to try and muck up my thread?

I understand it's a tough question for some people.

Really? I must have missed the memo that changed that.

You mucked up your thread when you insisted that the goals of the war were to set up an Islamic theocracy. Since that was never a goal I get to mock you for you trying to rewrite history.

As for the rest, unless you can point to anywhere I said anything about there being no moderate Muslims, or where I said setting up those non existent moderate Mulims in power would help me in any way shape or form, I still get to mock you for trying to read my mind and failing. That also leaves me free to mock you, and muck up your thread.

Additionally, my guess is you will find that the set of people who think there are no moderate Muslims and the set of people who think setting up a Muslim government in Iraq do not overlap. That again leaves me free to mock you and muck up your thread because it is not based on reality. It is not my fault you totally fail at understanding that people are different simple because they disagree with your politics. This shows that you, personally, are weak minded and shallow, and is not a reflection on those who disagree with you.

I get to muck up your thread because you did not ask a question, you attempted to posit a paradox, and the universe does not permit paradoxes.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually, it was intended to take out WMDs.

After that went bust, it became about spreading democracy and our tactics for the overwhelming time we were there relied on creating a moderate Islamic state.

Now that we have cleared that up, do you care to comment on the question at hand, or are you going to continue to try and muck up my thread?

I understand it's a tough question for some people.

i guess if you HATE islam, it would be a tough question.

If you hate Islam or think Islam is inherently evil and not capable of ever being good.

It's one of those "if the shoe fits" things.

Actually, you just do not understand that it is possible to dislike a religion and still acknowledge that everyone who follows that religion is not identical. This is another indication of your lack of intellectual capacity, and not really your fault.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Are you buying into rdean's conspiracy theory that we deliberately set up a theocracy in Iraq?

Even if that is true, religions are not the same as people, something most lefties have trouble understanding.

excellent non answer.

He posited a condition that is impossible for the universe to sustain, was I supposed to assume that he was being serious and treat his idiocy with respect?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Are you buying into rdean's conspiracy theory that we deliberately set up a theocracy in Iraq?

Even if that is true, religions are not the same as people, something most lefties have trouble understanding.

Are you sure that was MY theory?

Or was my theory that Bush thought he was bringing "democracy" to a corrupt secular regime because he "assumed" that he "knew how these people think" and he "assumed he knew what they wanted".

Only, they didn't want "American style democracy". The first chance they got, they adopted a constitution that makes "Islam" the "national religion" and declares all legislation to be based on Islam.

That is called "unintended consequences".

Now, how did we know it would happen? Because it happened in Iran. The only difference was the people threw off the US backed Shah. But it was the people who put together the existing government, which is how Iraq will eventually look. It's almost there now.

This is why it's bad to have a president that goes on "gut" feelings and thinks "education if for those liberal elitists". Generally, an educated person with "think things through".

But I don't think Windbutt purposely lies. Windbutt just goes on what it imagines.

May the Wind at your back always be your own.

I don't know what goes on in your twisted little mind, all I know is what you post.

 

[hipeter924]

That's invariably what happens when I ask this question. It's easier now as the Islamophobes can deny they ever supported Iraq.

you fucked up your question when you slapped the label "Islamophobes" onto the back of the query. See, most of us know how demonRats operate, they don't want so much to "know anything" or converse about anything" what they are looking for is a chance to paste some horrible label such as "racist" or "homophobe" or now for the newest "Islamophobe" onto their opponent. I look at a question like that followed by the accusation of "Islamophobe" and I then take a piss on it. Happy trails.

Quit avoiding the question.

Do you think that there can be a "moderate muslim"?

A moderate Muslim is a Muslim that believes Jews are evil and the west is evil and is indifferent to violence and murder committed by more extreme Muslims. But they are moderate in the sense they would not commit the violent or murderous acts committed by those more extreme brethren unless compelled to do so by a preacher or other Muslims.

But that does not mean they can't go to flight school and learn how to fly a plane into a building, what irony that it was moderate Muslims that were terrorists on 9/11. The left makes moderate Muslims 'extremists' one minute before they commit a terrorist act just to save face for their Muslim friends.

The left defines a moderate Muslim as peaceful and non violent, a total lie that defies the actual dictionary definition of moderate. The only peaceful and non violent Muslims are not moderate but Secular Muslims (Turk's don't count as they showed by their terrorist Flotilla campaign).

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The disconnect comes with using military force to secure liberty and equal rights in another nation.

Many people support human rights in Darfur, few people support military intervention to bring it about. I personally do not feel that is an appropriate use of our military resources or at the very least it should be a UN mission with America only making a component of the effort up.

I agree that those who oppose military intervention in Iraq while supporting military intervention in Darfur are hypocrites.

You question was relatively easy to answer.

Want to take a crack at mine (providing you think Islam can't be refined).

I guess it makes a lot more sense to people like you to ignore the problems that to actually try to fix them.

The reason using military force is appropriate is that it works. The warlords in Darfur and Somalia are unimpressed with economic sanctions that do not affect them. Counting on the UN to do it just makes some people feel better because then it is not their problem. What people have to learn is that it is their problem, and that they are not free as long as they ignore the plight of others who suffer under oppression and tyranny.