If you are HONEST, you are AGNOSTIC

[K9Buck]

Who created your “God”?

Science indicates that the universe had a beginning. We can debate who or what caused the universe to come into existence. What is NOT debatable, however, is the concept that something or someone HAD to have always existed and who did not need another to cause it/they to exist. Follow me? This is a concept that is beyond our understanding because everything in our universe needs a cause to exist. After all, there is NOTHING in the universe that can ''cause itself'' to come into existence.

I believe that we have a creator, AKA ''God'', and that God has always existed. Again, a concept we cannot comprehend but, here we are.

If not for the fact that we are here now, I believe that most atheists would claim it impossible for us to exist. They seem to have a very limited ability to ''conceptualize''.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

AGNOSTICISM is about your HONEST perceptions and interpretations of your own experiences. If you cannot see beyond the horizon, you don’t pretend you do.

Of course, you can gather information from credible sources who have seen something beyond YOUR horizon, but that is tentative information that could be a basis for your belief(s).

No one credible to me has ANY information about Earth’s origins. We can only theorize based on patterns of evidence from various credible sources. Beyond that ...

If you are not agnostic, you are playing a make believe game. If so, you have faith in fantasy instead of reality, in my opinion.

Well, I am agnostic in that even if there were any gods, we would have no way to evaluate them or really know anything about them. And since no claims of gods that I have heard of are in the least convincing I do not believe any of them are true, making me also an atheist.

Note that I am not claiming that I know there aren’t any gods, only that I do not believe any do exist. You can reject a proposition without accepting its opposite.

I understand your position, I believe.
You are a “weak” athiest; without belief (a-theist). Me too.
An agnostic holds that belief because no credible info exists about any “god”.

So I was in a hotel that had gas heat for each room, the transient people next door decided they wanted to commit suicide so turned off the pilot light and wanted to die by asphyxiation by natural gas. At 4:30 am the dumb bitch woke up, decided to light a cigarette and blew her room into ours. Cinder blocks flew over and under us, the tv ended up at the foot of the bed, the only thing that happened was I got niched on the elbow, side, and knee. It was if a hand had come down and covered me when the explosion happened. The police said we should of died. We, I was sleeping on my side, the wife was beside me, I was her shield. Not one other experience that proves there is a God. When you find you significant other, whether it is naturally a man or woman, and the two partake in the joys of love, when the baby is born, you tell the rest of US how chance has it that a random number of cells just happened to form a human being. There is order in that baby, not some random event, or punishment like Obama called a baby...

You were very lucky!
The world is full of patterns that develop due to natural processes that include emergence of new properties over geologic time or a human lifetime.
No “god” necessary to explain that ... yet.

 

[Magnificat]

So, just for discussion;s sake, tell me what harm is there in believing there is a God?

The harm is that sinners really hate being reminded that they are going to hell. There is no such thing as an atheist.

 

[K9Buck]

And what have the Jews done that make you feel contemptable towards them?

I believe that hatred of the Jews is inspired by Satan. It's not lost on me that many leftists are atheists and that most of them seem to despise Israel, along with the Muslim world, both of whom have been deceived by Satan, or so I believe.

 

[K9Buck]

The harm is that sinners really hate being reminded that they are going to hell. There is no such thing as an atheist.

I personally doubt that there are any atheists in Hell.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

So, just for discussion's sake, tell me what harm is there in believing there is a God?

Is there harm in believing that Santa Clause exists? Not if you’re a child.
Just don’t teach that as an adult, or be prepared for cross-examination in the court of logic and epistemology.

 

[ViewFromAbove]

AGNOSTICISM is about your HONEST perceptions and interpretations of your own experiences. If you cannot see beyond the horizon, you don’t pretend you do.

Of course, you can gather information from credible sources who have seen something beyond YOUR horizon, but that is tentative information that could be a basis for your belief(s).

No one credible to me has ANY information about Earth’s origins. We can only theorize based on patterns of evidence from various credible sources. Beyond that ...

If you are not agnostic, you are playing a make believe game. If so, you have faith in fantasy instead of reality, in my opinion.

You cannot have a creation without a Creator. If there is no Creator, then the universe created itself from nothing. Any sane person knows this is impossible. Therefore, God exist.

Who created your “God”?

Not this tired old shit again. God was not created. He has always existed. I guess this is where you claim that the universe always existed, but that is a scientific impossibility. Try again. Fool.

How do you KNOW that only one “God” always existed?
A creation must have a creator! That’s what I was told!

 

[MarathonMike]

AGNOSTICISM is about your HONEST perceptions and interpretations of your own experiences. If you cannot see beyond the horizon, you don’t pretend you do.

Of course, you can gather information from credible sources who have seen something beyond YOUR horizon, but that is tentative information that could be a basis for your belief(s).

No one credible to me has ANY information about Earth’s origins. We can only theorize based on patterns of evidence from various credible sources. Beyond that ...

If you are not agnostic, you are playing a make believe game. If so, you have faith in fantasy instead of reality, in my opinion.

There is not much difference IMO between an Agnostic and a Deist. Per the definition, a true Agnostic has neither a belief nor dis-belief in God. A Deist believes that the circumstantial evidence supports the existence of a God or some higher intelligence/power but no beliefs beyond that.

An agnostic does not share Deist beliefs.
No evidence, including “circumstantial”.

The ordered universe and the existence of life certainly is circumstantial evidence.

 

[Old Man Grumbles]

That does not answer the question I posed. You just deflected, unsuccessfully. I am genuinely curious what you find the harm to be?

 

[Justin Richardson]

I have always wondered why Agnostics are so cynical about Faith itself. Without God, you would have a hard time having some belief in yourself. I suppose that was more of a psychological comment.

I always believed that if you don't believe in God, you will always be faithless in yourself. IMO

 

[night_son]

So, just for discussion's sake, tell me what harm is there in believing there is a God?

Is there harm in believing that Santa Clause exists? Not if you’re a child.
Just don’t teach that as an adult, or be prepared for cross-examination in the court of logic and epistemology.

Perhaps you should reevaluate your faith in the philosophy of theory and knowledge. Tell us, did René Descartes believe in "Santa Claus"? Alas, who knows. What he was, however, was a devout Catholic. Say it ain't so. A father of modern philosophy . . . believed in God!

 

[ViewFromAbove]

Who created your “God”?

Science indicates that the universe had a beginning. We can debate who or what caused the universe to come into existence. What is NOT debatable, however, is the concept that something or someone HAD to have always existed and who did not need another to cause it/they to exist. Follow me? This is a concept that is beyond our understanding because everything in our universe needs a cause to exist. After all, there is NOTHING in the universe that can ''cause itself'' to come into existence.

I believe that we have a creator, AKA ''God'', and that God has always existed. Again, a concept we cannot comprehend but, here we are.

If not for the fact that we are here now, I believe that most atheists would claim it impossible for us to exist. They seem to have a very limited ability to ''conceptualize''.

You know science? You’re an astrophysicist?
Most/many scientists believe OUR observable “universe” came out of a “Big Bang”, not from “nothing”.
Maybe there are MANY universes that exist, but no one knows that and never will ... in our lifetimes, in my opinion.

 

[Justin Richardson]

You can be honest with yourself. But it is much easier if you have faith in yourself to be honest.
I wonder how many Agnostics are out there, that are truly honest with themselves when they have no one else to believe in? Do they actually have faith in themselves when they are Godless?

 

[ViewFromAbove]

So, just for discussion's sake, tell me what harm is there in believing there is a God?

Is there harm in believing that Santa Clause exists? Not if you’re a child.
Just don’t teach that as an adult, or be prepared for cross-examination in the court of logic and epistemology.

Perhaps you should reevaluate your faith in the philosophy of theory and knowledge. Tell us, did René Descartes believe in "Santa Claus"? Alas, who knows. What he was, however, was a devout Catholic. Say it ain't so. A father of modern philosophy . . . believed in God!

Descartes was one of MANY philosophers who preceded modern knowledge.
His mind/body dualism is considered a mistake by many modern philosophers.

 

[fncceo]

God is looking down upon on us just like we might look down on an ant hill watching the ants working away, totally oblivious to our presence.

Well, if he's looking down and watching us do our ant business ... he's not oblivious to us ... just possibly indifferent.

If, however, we see him toying with a magnifying glass ... then indifference might be trending towards antagonism.

 

[night_son]

So, just for discussion's sake, tell me what harm is there in believing there is a God?

Is there harm in believing that Santa Clause exists? Not if you’re a child.
Just don’t teach that as an adult, or be prepared for cross-examination in the court of logic and epistemology.

Perhaps you should reevaluate your faith in the philosophy of theory and knowledge. Tell us, did René Descartes believe in "Santa Claus"? Alas, who knows. What he was, however, was a devout Catholic. Say it ain't so. A father of modern philosophy . . . believed in God!

Descartes was one of MANY philosophers who preceded modern knowledge.
His mind/body dualism is considered a mistake by many modern philosophers.

Got it. I'm out of this thread. Apparently, the school(s) of philosophy upon which you base your agnosticism is/are highly selective and dependent on its efficacy to support your personal (dis) belief. Nothing more to debate. Bias and subjectivity are welcome benefits of our free society. Enjoy.

 

[WinterBorn]

AGNOSTICISM is about your HONEST perceptions and interpretations of your own experiences. If you cannot see beyond the horizon, you don’t pretend you do.

Of course, you can gather information from credible sources who have seen something beyond YOUR horizon, but that is tentative information that could be a basis for your belief(s).

No one credible to me has ANY information about Earth’s origins. We can only theorize based on patterns of evidence from various credible sources. Beyond that ...

If you are not agnostic, you are playing a make believe game. If so, you have faith in fantasy instead of reality, in my opinion.

So you are now deciding you know what people believe more than they do?

Atheists are people who do not believe in any god. For you to claim that they are actually agnostic is the height of arrogance.

 

[K9Buck]

Most/many scientists believe OUR observable “universe” came out of a “Big Bang”, not from “nothing”.

There is zero evidence of anything existing prior to the ''big bang''. In fact, the evidence is that space and time came into existence at the exact same time, which occurred as a result of the ''big bang''.

If there is no ''creator'' then it would seem that everything indeed came from ''nothing''.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Man's experience is that everything has a beginning, and an end. That is because his lifetime is so short, and his observable universe so small. In the world of science, there is no need for a beginning and end. The universe could have always existed, without a creator. It only seems impossible, because we only live in our small three dimensional world.

People can call me agnostic if they want to, but, I am an atheist. I can not prove hat there is no god, but I am sure there is not.

 

[K9Buck]

Faith should not be blind, in my opinion.
Should be based on evidence, especially your own.

I wholeheartedly agree. In my view, there is a preponderance of evidence to support a creator as well as life after death. That is why I have faith in such things.