If you are a woman, how can you support Obama's Iran deal?

[occupied]

Iran lets it's women drive cars, own property, run a business, file for divorce and walk around without covering their face. Our "friends" the Saudis are much worse in this respect.

Iran is a shit hole.

it's actually pretty well developed and educated when compared to the rest of the mideast. Most conservatives seem to think it's like Iraq or Afghanistan but it is very different in a lot of ways.

Do they hang homosexuals? Do they stone women for infidelity?

We all know they do a lot of bad things but so do a lot of countries we are friendly with. Having a bad human rights record is not an excuse for the course we were on. Other cultures improve in this respect when exposed to the west. Continuing to allow Iran to be insular and closed up solves nothing.

 

[ChrisL]

Iran lets it's women drive cars, own property, run a business, file for divorce and walk around without covering their face. Our "friends" the Saudis are much worse in this respect.

Iran is a shit hole.

it's actually pretty well developed and educated when compared to the rest of the mideast. Most conservatives seem to think it's like Iraq or Afghanistan but it is very different in a lot of ways.

Do they hang homosexuals? Do they stone women for infidelity?

We all know they do a lot of bad things but so do a lot of countries we are friendly with. Having a bad human rights record is not an excuse for the course we were on. Other cultures improve in this respect when exposed to the west. Continuing to allow Iran to be insular and closed up solves nothing.

Maybe, but I still don't see how loosening sanctions helps anything either, TBH.

 

[Political Junky]

Makes me wonder how the OP rationalizes buying petroleum from the ME...most ME countries treat women horribly.

Makes one also think about the policies that increase dependency on foreign oil; in particular, oil from these countries with egregious human rights violations. All the more reason for us to drill more domestically and simultaneously pursue aggressive schedule on alternative energy.... Combined, get US of our Dependency on ME oil.

Won't help with cars but our hesitance to develop Nuke power will be one of the things that future generations look back on us and shrug their shoulders at our "logic".

We are just a good battery away from being able to use mostly solar and wind energy. That is clearly the future.

Well, that is neither cheap nor reliable. Solar panels are very expensive.

Solar panels are becoming less expensive.
I'd think you'd welcome a chance to not support the Middle East.

 

[occupied]

Iran lets it's women drive cars, own property, run a business, file for divorce and walk around without covering their face. Our "friends" the Saudis are much worse in this respect.

Iran is a shit hole.

it's actually pretty well developed and educated when compared to the rest of the mideast. Most conservatives seem to think it's like Iraq or Afghanistan but it is very different in a lot of ways.

Do they hang homosexuals? Do they stone women for infidelity?

We all know they do a lot of bad things but so do a lot of countries we are friendly with. Having a bad human rights record is not an excuse for the course we were on. Other cultures improve in this respect when exposed to the west. Continuing to allow Iran to be insular and closed up solves nothing.

Maybe, but I still don't see how loosening sanctions helps anything either, TBH.

The ruling religious conservatives hold power partly because they can blame all economic troubles on sanctions and suck money out of economy for weapons because we were always issuing threats. Our Iran policy went a long way to empower the monsters who run the place. What excuse will they have now? If we give them an honest opportunity to do right and they do not then and only then will we have the moral authority to take whatever military action that may be required.

 

[ChrisL]

Iran is a shit hole.

it's actually pretty well developed and educated when compared to the rest of the mideast. Most conservatives seem to think it's like Iraq or Afghanistan but it is very different in a lot of ways.

Do they hang homosexuals? Do they stone women for infidelity?

We all know they do a lot of bad things but so do a lot of countries we are friendly with. Having a bad human rights record is not an excuse for the course we were on. Other cultures improve in this respect when exposed to the west. Continuing to allow Iran to be insular and closed up solves nothing.

Maybe, but I still don't see how loosening sanctions helps anything either, TBH.

The ruling religious conservatives hold power partly because they can blame all economic troubles on sanctions and suck money out of economy for weapons because we were always issuing threats. Our Iran policy went a long way to empower the monsters who run the place. What excuse will they have now? If we give them an honest opportunity to do right and they do not then and only then will we have the moral authority to take whatever military action that may be required.

I see your point, I really do, but I just don't know how wise it is.

 

[G.T.]

Sanctions cannot be indefinite.

Its called a carrot and a stick.


The sanctions WORKED.

In EXCHANGE for loosening them, theyre now willing to compromise their nuclear program

Its not rocket science.

Pun intended

 

[Bombur]

it's actually pretty well developed and educated when compared to the rest of the mideast. Most conservatives seem to think it's like Iraq or Afghanistan but it is very different in a lot of ways.

Do they hang homosexuals? Do they stone women for infidelity?

We all know they do a lot of bad things but so do a lot of countries we are friendly with. Having a bad human rights record is not an excuse for the course we were on. Other cultures improve in this respect when exposed to the west. Continuing to allow Iran to be insular and closed up solves nothing.

Maybe, but I still don't see how loosening sanctions helps anything either, TBH.

The ruling religious conservatives hold power partly because they can blame all economic troubles on sanctions and suck money out of economy for weapons because we were always issuing threats. Our Iran policy went a long way to empower the monsters who run the place. What excuse will they have now? If we give them an honest opportunity to do right and they do not then and only then will we have the moral authority to take whatever military action that may be required.

I see your point, I really do, but I just don't know how wise it is.

The downside of opening up trade with Iran is really a sunk costs considering Russia and China were planning on opening up trade anyway.

This deal with Iran doesn't mean we have nothing to fear but it isn't really increasing our fears as much as some people are acting like and in many ways this deal gives us significantly less to worry about.

From a downside perspective things are actually better and from an upside perspective things are way better.

 

[ChrisL]

Do they hang homosexuals? Do they stone women for infidelity?

We all know they do a lot of bad things but so do a lot of countries we are friendly with. Having a bad human rights record is not an excuse for the course we were on. Other cultures improve in this respect when exposed to the west. Continuing to allow Iran to be insular and closed up solves nothing.

Maybe, but I still don't see how loosening sanctions helps anything either, TBH.

The ruling religious conservatives hold power partly because they can blame all economic troubles on sanctions and suck money out of economy for weapons because we were always issuing threats. Our Iran policy went a long way to empower the monsters who run the place. What excuse will they have now? If we give them an honest opportunity to do right and they do not then and only then will we have the moral authority to take whatever military action that may be required.

I see your point, I really do, but I just don't know how wise it is.

The downside of opening up trade with Iran is really a sunk costs considering Russia and China were planning on opening up trade anyway.

This deal with Iran doesn't mean we have nothing to fear but it isn't really increasing our fears as much as some people are acting like and in many ways this deal gives us significantly less to worry about.

From a downside perspective things are actually better and from an upside perspective things are way better.

China (as well as some others) has never honored sanctions against Iran though. That is just one reason why sanctions have not been as effective as we would have liked.

 

[G.T.]

Sanctions did exactly as they were intended......

Weird definition of "not effective" you have.

 

[TooTall]

The Soviet Union committed many atrocities. Reagan still signed treaties with them.

China has committed many atrocities. The US still signs treaties with them.

The OP is written by a gullible retard who does not have two critically thinking brain cells.

We aren't signing a treaty with Iran.

 

[TooTall]

Makes me wonder how the OP rationalizes buying petroleum from the ME...most ME countries treat women horribly.

How many of the ME countries have American citizens in jail for being a Christian?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I dont know why all issues are suddenly being conflated to a singular issue.

Must be something someone said on the radio.

I believe rderp started it with his who do you trust more Iran or gop. They've certainly snowballed since then

 

[rdean]

Oklahoma GOP candidate Stoning gays the right thing to do MSNBC

Addicting Info Mississippi Conservative Calls For Putting Gay People To Death On Facebook Page

Thanks God we don't live in Iran. But we still have to deal with those people. Just like we have to deal with them here.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Israeli government funds abortions, and we give the Israeli government billions.

Why aren't you RWnuts crying about that?

 

[bendog]

We need to invade all countries that don't support human rights. Reagan taught us that.

 

[deltex1]

This is what Iran does to women...

You could show solidarity with Hussein by having your genitals mutilated...

 

[JFish123]

A better question: if your a woman, how can you be a muslim?

Four Facts
FACT #1: The Qur’an allows (or, perhaps, commands) men to beat their wives into subservience. If a wife doesn’t listen to her husband, the husband should admonish her. If that doesn’t work, he is to make her sleep in a separate bed. However, if the wife still doesn’t respect her husband’s authority, even after she has been banished to another bed, the husband is told to physically punish her. Consider three translations of the following verse:
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret what Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.[7]

FACT #2: According to Muhammad, women lack common sense because their minds are deficient. Of course, this declaration didn’t go unchallenged. To his credit, Muhammad allowed women to question him about their intellectual deficiencies. His response to these questions was illuminating:
[Muhammad said]: O womenfolk, you should give charity and ask much forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell. A wise lady among them said: Why is it, Messenger of Allah, that our folk is in bulk in Hell? Upon this the Holy Prophet observed: You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. I have seen none lacking in common sense and failing in religion but (at the same time) robbing the wisdom of the wise, besides you. Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense and with religion? He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Your lack of common sense (can be well judged from the fact) that the evidence of two women is equal to one man, that is a proof of the lack of common sense.[10]
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind."

FACT #3: Muhammad offered women little hope for the afterlife. Indeed, he clearly states that most of the inhabitants of hell are women who were ungrateful to their husbands (though he never suggests that ungrateful husbands will receive similar punishment[12]). This means that, after being admonished, banished to a separate bed, and beaten by her husband, a willful woman can look forward to an eternity in hell:
The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "I saw paradise and stretched my hands towards a bunch (of its fruits) and had I taken it, you would have eaten from it as long as the world remains. I also saw the Hell-fire and I had never seen such a horrible sight. I saw that most of the inhabitants were women." The people asked: "O Allah’s Apostle! Why is it so?" The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "Because of their ungratefulness." It was asked whether they are ungrateful to Allah. The Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) said: "They are ungrateful to their companions of life (husbands) and ungrateful to good deeds."
[Muhammad said], "O women! Give to charity, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were women." The women asked, "O Allah’s Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He said: "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious man astray."

FACT #4: The Qur’an permits Muslims to have sex with their female captives and slaves (i.e. those "whom their right hands possess"). As the Muslim armies raided town after town, they captured many women, who would often be sold or traded. Yet, since the Muslim men were a long way from their wives, they needed wisdom from God to guide them in their treatment of their female captives:
The Believers must (Eventually) win through—Those who humble themselves In their prayers; Who avoid vain talk; Who are active in deeds Of charity; Who abstain from sex, Except with those joined To them in the marriage bond, Or (the captives) whom Their right hands possess—For (in their case) they are Free from blame. Not so those devoted To Prayer—Those who remain steadfast To their prayer; And those in whose wealth Is a recognized right For the (needy) who asks And him who is prevented (For some reason from asking); And those who hold To the truth of the Day Of Judgement; And those who fear The displeasure of their Lord—For their Lord’s displeasure Is the opposite of Peace And Tranquility—And those who guard Their chastity, Except with their wives And the (captives) whom Their right hands possess—For (then) they are not To be blamed.[17]







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[bendog]

So, we have a racist with a bait and switch OP. What''s new.

 

[ChrisL]

I'm still not sure how weakening sanctions is better than strengthening them when it comes to Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon? Does anyone think that Iran would comply with any of our demands given their history?

 

[Bombur]

I'm still not sure how weakening sanctions is better than strengthening them when it comes to Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon? Does anyone think that Iran would comply with any of our demands given their history?

If they don't then sanctions resume.

The key to deals like this is that you get Iran to essentially agree to the sanctions if they are necessary.

Believe it or not the practice of just trying to bully a nation into submission doesn't really work that well. It is far more productive historically speaking to try and work with them.