If They Do, They'll Be Running For Their Lives!

[Meister]

Do you actually believe that this bill for healthcare...whenever it get written and passed will be the last of that bill? This bill is just the foundation for more add ons, and a foot in the door for a public option add on. Don't be naive, everyone knows how bad it is, but the polticians want something/anything passed and then they can fix it in the future.
I swear, It must be hard living with your head in the sand as reality passes you by.

Funny, it seems you have ignored my spot on observation of you categorizing Liberals and an entire part of the political spectrum together like cattle.

The public option is not going to pass at this point. Despite the approval of it from the majority of the Americans.

Just what are you talking about? I was responding to what queen stated. Please read what queen posted, and what I replied to.
I did read what you stated, and I will reply to it right now. If you think your are a left wing NUT then I guess I was talking to you, Dawg. My wording was not an accident in that post. But, I do not believe most liberals are in that category. Can you comprehend the difference? If not, stay in school until you do.
Glad you don't pack a gun, Dawg, because you would fire away, and ask questions later.

 

[Queen]

Is there anything that this administration doesn't want control of? It seems it might be a short list.

Is there anything the right doesn't misconstrue and make up lies about the government taking over things?

There's no public option, yet the right is still screaming about a government takeover of health care.

The FCC wants to keep the internet neutral and as is and the right screams that they are taking over the internet.

Now this.....

I swear, it must be hard living in constant fear the way you people do.

Oh goody a perfect person has arrived to tell us that Republicans are liars and have no compassion, morals, or ethics.. I love Perfect people they have perfected Perfectedness.. Amen

If you Republicans would stop lying, we'd be able to stop telling you that you're liars.

You can start today! Don't lie about me mentioning compassion, morals or ethics. How about that for a start?

This is a story from 2008. Obviously nothing came of it. Why spread some lies 2 years later that the sky is falling - doom and gloom - be very afraid?

Why spread so much fear?

Why is the right so afraid?

 

[Queen]

Do you actually believe that this bill for healthcare...whenever it get written and passed will be the last of that bill? This bill is just the foundation for more add ons, and a foot in the door for a public option add on. Don't be naive, everyone knows how bad it is, but the polticians want something/anything passed and then they can fix it in the future.
I swear, It must be hard living with your head in the sand as reality passes you by.

Yes, be very afraid of what MIGHT come in the future too. Don't just be scared of what lies the GOP is telling you about horrible things happening now, BE AFRAID of everything that might happen in days to come.

WOW, it do you people get ulcers with all this fear and worry?

 

[Modbert]

Guess they didn't? Just because they haven't got the votes for it yet, doesn't mean they won't keep trying. Case in point the determined destruction of the health insurance industry.

Immie

They have the votes for it now. Remember? The whole "60 votes" that the Republicans go on about. 60 Democrats in the Senate. Oh wait, neither of these guys are in the senate.

This is no different than some of the ideas that Ron Paul offers up. Great ideas to some people, fucking horrible ideas to others. Will a vote on said ideas ever reach the light of day? Probably not.

Why? Politicians in Congress aren't usually ones to commit political hari kari when it's fairly obvious when things like this are exactly that.

As for the Health Insurance industry, they are destroying themselves when they treat people like cattle. WWJD?

Oh wait, this is the Jesus that some would like to see:



In the mean time, our ineffective Health Care Industry will continue to plunder people's pockets with the people having little to show for it.

 

[Meister]

Do you actually believe that this bill for healthcare...whenever it get written and passed will be the last of that bill? This bill is just the foundation for more add ons, and a foot in the door for a public option add on. Don't be naive, everyone knows how bad it is, but the polticians want something/anything passed and then they can fix it in the future.
I swear, It must be hard living with your head in the sand as reality passes you by.

Yes, be very afraid of what MIGHT come in the future too. Don't just be scared of what lies the GOP is telling you about horrible things happening now, BE AFRAID of everything that might happen in days to come.

WOW, it do you people get ulcers with all this fear and worry?

Well, maybe I gave you too much credit with just being naive. You have convinced me that your just stupid

 

[Queen]

The public option is not going to pass at this point. Despite the approval of it from the majority of the Americans.

But that doesn't stop them from fearing it. OOOOO it's so scary to imagine a health insurance choice that's like medicare - while at the same time they scream DON'T TOUCH MY MEDICARE!!!!

They apparently have no idea what's going on or what they are talking about.

 

[Modbert]

Just what are you talking about? I was responding to what queen stated. Please read what queen posted, and what I replied to.
I did read what you stated, and I will reply to it right now. If you think your are a left wing NUT then I guess I was talking to you, Dawg. My wording was not an accident in that post. But, I do not believe most liberals are in that category. Can you comprehend the difference? If not, stay in school until you do.
Glad you don't pack a gun, Dawg, because you would fire away, and ask questions later.

You seem to ignore your back and forth with Annie earlier.

You used the word Liberal, you shouldn't of.

I understand what Rodishi is stating, there are a lot of left wing nuts on this board that would agree with the encouragement.
But I do agree with you Annie, most Americans are not as liberal as to stand for this administrations attempt to govern our lives in the manner that it wants.
All Brown has to be is close in the election tomorrow and the democrats will see the writing on the wall with their future in politics.

You also seem to think Left Wing Nut = Liberal = Democrat. All wrong.

 

[Queen]

Do you actually believe that this bill for healthcare...whenever it get written and passed will be the last of that bill? This bill is just the foundation for more add ons, and a foot in the door for a public option add on. Don't be naive, everyone knows how bad it is, but the polticians want something/anything passed and then they can fix it in the future.
I swear, It must be hard living with your head in the sand as reality passes you by.

Yes, be very afraid of what MIGHT come in the future too. Don't just be scared of what lies the GOP is telling you about horrible things happening now, BE AFRAID of everything that might happen in days to come.

WOW, it do you people get ulcers with all this fear and worry?

Well, maybe I gave you too much credit with just being naive. You have convinced me that your just stupid

Well, with an intelligent post like that, I bet you've convinced the WHOLE forum!

 

[Meister]

Yes, be very afraid of what MIGHT come in the future too. Don't just be scared of what lies the GOP is telling you about horrible things happening now, BE AFRAID of everything that might happen in days to come.

WOW, it do you people get ulcers with all this fear and worry?

Well, maybe I gave you too much credit with just being naive. You have convinced me that your just stupid

Well, with an intelligent post like that, I bet you've convince the WHOLE forum!

Trust me, it wasn't my post that convinced them, it was your posts.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Fact is that Mr Obama and company would prefer to take care of all of us Cradle to Grave. We know it and will fight against his Socialist state. And Mr Obama has been for Universal single payer health care since I believe 06. He is wrong.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE[/ame]

I know we've all seen this a zillion times by now.

 

[Modbert]

Fact is that Mr Obama and company would prefer to take care of all of us Cradle to Grave. We know it and will fight against his Socialist state. And Mr Obama has been for Universal single payer health care since I believe 06. He is wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE

I know we've all seen this a zillion times by now.

Mr. Obama is not for Universal Single Player Health Care. Mr. Obama to this Liberal is for whatever gets him elected and keeps him popular. He showed no real fight against the Health Insurance Companies and against not only the Republicans in Congress but the fools in the Democratic party.

This is evident in him bashing Bush for months on end and continuing many Bush era policies.

But when you care to stop sprouting right wing talking points and come back to reality, I'll be glad to throw you a party.

 

[Meister]

Just what are you talking about? I was responding to what queen stated. Please read what queen posted, and what I replied to.
I did read what you stated, and I will reply to it right now. If you think your are a left wing NUT then I guess I was talking to you, Dawg. My wording was not an accident in that post. But, I do not believe most liberals are in that category. Can you comprehend the difference? If not, stay in school until you do.
Glad you don't pack a gun, Dawg, because you would fire away, and ask questions later.

You seem to ignore your back and forth with Annie earlier.

You used the word Liberal, you shouldn't of.

I understand what Rodishi is stating, there are a lot of left wing nuts on this board that would agree with the encouragement.
But I do agree with you Annie, most Americans are not as liberal as to stand for this administrations attempt to govern our lives in the manner that it wants.
All Brown has to be is close in the election tomorrow and the democrats will see the writing on the wall with their future in politics.

You also seem to think Left Wing Nut = Liberal = Democrat. All wrong.

you and I have addressed this and resolved the difference.

 

[Modbert]

you and I have addressed this and resolved the difference.

That would be correct.

Now for a better mood.



That's me on the left.

 

[Immanuel]

Guess they didn't? Just because they haven't got the votes for it yet, doesn't mean they won't keep trying. Case in point the determined destruction of the health insurance industry.

Immie

They have the votes for it now. Remember? The whole "60 votes" that the Republicans go on about. 60 Democrats in the Senate. Oh wait, neither of these guys are in the senate.

Just because they have the majority, does not mean that they have the votes for every dim-witted scheme they can concoct. If it did, we would all be in a world of hurt. They can present ideas... propose new legislation, but that is only the first step.

This is no different than some of the ideas that Ron Paul offers up. Great ideas to some people, fucking horrible ideas to others. Will a vote on said ideas ever reach the light of day? Probably not.

Maybe not... but then we have some pretty horrible ideas that have gotten through Congress... we're in two wars right now, that many believe are horrible ideas.

Why? Politicians in Congress aren't usually ones to commit political hari kari when it's fairly obvious when things like this are exactly that.

I disagree. They understand that Americans have short memories. Pass the "health insurance destruction" bill today and by the 2010 elections most Americans will have forgotten all about it by then.

As for the Health Insurance industry, they are destroying themselves when they treat people like cattle. WWJD?

I have never defended the industry. However, I prefer some form of competition over a government monopoly.

In the mean time, our ineffective Health Care Industry will continue to plunder people's pockets with the people having little to show for it.

Ineffective? I would hardly call our system ineffective. Over priced yes... ineffective? I don't think so.

Immie

 

[Modbert]

Just because they have the majority, does not mean that they have the votes for every dim-witted scheme they can concoct. If it did, we would all be in a world of hurt. They can present ideas... propose new legislation, but that is only the first step.

Maybe not... but then we have some pretty horrible ideas that have gotten through Congress... we're in two wars right now, that many believe are horrible ideas.

I disagree. They understand that Americans have short memories. Pass the "health insurance destruction" bill today and by the 2010 elections most Americans will have forgotten all about it by then.

I have never defended the industry. However, I prefer some form of competition over a government monopoly.

Ineffective? I would hardly call our system ineffective. Over priced yes... ineffective? I don't think so.

Immie

I'll address each point in numbers.

1.) Good, you're catching on. However, they have not even proposed legislation. Why not go look at some of the actual bills that Ron Paul has proposed. Being someone who leans to the right, I'm sure you'll find yourself liking some. I'm not calling Ron Paul crazy either, but to many people he is. My point is that the House of Representatives are made up of a wide range of people with different outlooks on life.

The people in their districts voted them in as they have a right to. You also have no idea how much support this got. Considering this was first proposed after Obama took office and nothing became of it tells me that it got little to no traction.

Tl;dr: Don't be Paranoid and overworried over something common.

2.) I don't believe anyone thinks the War in Afghanistan was a horrible idea. I think plenty of people (including myself) believe the execution and staying in Afghanistan is a horrible idea. And Iraq is one giant blunder fuck as well. War is completely different than as well, so its irrelevant to the conversation.

3.) We agree, partly. Americans have a short memory, which is why they're so willing to put back into power the "Dracula" Congress as I'll now refer to them. You seem to be siding with the devil you know rather the one you don't, when you shouldn't side with either. And no, I'm not saying the actual devil, it's a metaphor.

4.) Competition does not have to be taken away for Reform and it won't with this current bill. It's been stripped enough that it actually does little to nothing in the long run in my opinion as compared to what could of been done positively.

5.) If our system is becoming more and more overpriced for the average working American, then yes it is ineffective. And don't even get me started on preexisting conditions. Hope you never become a Domestic Abuse victim, otherwise you're shit out of luck and jolly well fucked.

 

[Immanuel]

I'll address each point in numbers.

1.) Good, you're catching on. However, they have not even proposed legislation. Why not go look at some of the actual bills that Ron Paul has proposed. Being someone who leans to the right, I'm sure you'll find yourself liking some. I'm not calling Ron Paul crazy either, but to many people he is. My point is that the House of Representatives are made up of a wide range of people with different outlooks on life.

The people in their districts voted them in as they have a right to. You also have no idea how much support this got. Considering this was first proposed after Obama took office and nothing became of it tells me that it got little to no traction.

And my point is that they throw these ideas out there to see what kind of a response they get. Then if it is not too bad, they take it further. Remain silent and we have Health Insurance Destruction. Continue to remain silent and we have single payer health care.

Tl;dr: Don't be Paranoid and overworried over something common.

tl;dr: What?

Trusting Congress to do the right thing is what got this country in so much trouble in the first place. Someone damned sure had better get paranoid!

2.) I don't believe anyone thinks the War in Afghanistan was a horrible idea. I think plenty of people (including myself) believe the execution and staying in Afghanistan is a horrible idea. And Iraq is one giant blunder fuck as well. War is completely different than as well, so its irrelevant to the conversation.

Agreed. Maybe I stated it poorly above.

3.) We agree, partly. Americans have a short memory, which is why they're so willing to put back into power the "Dracula" Congress as I'll now refer to them. You seem to be siding with the devil you know rather the one you don't, when you shouldn't side with either. And no, I'm not saying the actual devil, it's a metaphor.

Not sure what you mean by me siding with the devil I know.

I like where my 401(k) is and I like having control over it. I dislike Social Security and can see the writing on the wall if Congress were to take control of my 401(k) or encourage us to give them control of it. No thank you!!!!

4.) Competition does not have to be taken away for Reform and it won't with this current bill. It's been stripped enough that it actually does little to nothing in the long run in my opinion as compared to what could of been done positively.

I completely agree. Competition does not need to be taken away, but the way the Democrats wrote the initial "Public Option" plan was set up to eliminate competition. They had language written forbidding private insurers from writing new policies. That would have destroyed the industry. If United Healthcare cannot take on new customers, then United Healthcare cannot survive. That was the government's plan and that would have been a disaster.

The Senate Plan did not have the Public Option, but who knows whether or not it will return in the reconciled version.

A public option would not be a terrible thing if it were competition based, but when you have the bottomless pit of the U.S. Treasury available to it, it would not compete on a level playing field.

5.) If our system is becoming more and more overpriced for the average working American, then yes it is ineffective. And don't even get me started on preexisting conditions. Hope you never become a Domestic Abuse victim, otherwise you're shit out of luck and jolly well fucked.

No, not ineffective. Less efficient, yes, but not ineffective. Not even close to being ineffective.

Immie

 

[Modbert]

And my point is that they throw these ideas out there to see what kind of a response they get. Then if it is not too bad, they take it further. Remain silent and we have Health Insurance Destruction. Continue to remain silent and we have single payer health care.

tl;dr: What?

Trusting Congress to do the right thing is what got this country in so much trouble in the first place. Someone damned sure had better get paranoid!

Agreed. Maybe I stated it poorly above.

Not sure what you mean by me siding with the devil I know.

I like where my 401(k) is and I like having control over it. I dislike Social Security and can see the writing on the wall if Congress were to take control of my 401(k) or encourage us to give them control of it. No thank you!!!!

I completely agree. Competition does not need to be taken away, but the way the Democrats wrote the initial "Public Option" plan was set up to eliminate competition. They had language written forbidding private insurers from writing new policies. That would have destroyed the industry. If United Healthcare cannot take on new customers, then United Healthcare cannot survive. That was the government's plan and that would have been a disaster.

The Senate Plan did not have the Public Option, but who knows whether or not it will return in the reconciled version.

A public option would not be a terrible thing if it were competition based, but when you have the bottomless pit of the U.S. Treasury available to it, it would not compete on a level playing field.

No, not ineffective. Less efficient, yes, but not ineffective. Not even close to being ineffective.

Immie

1.) Again, the reaction from their own members of Congress was not well received, so you're worrying about nothing. It's not going to happen as none of them are going to commit political hari kari.

Tl;dr is for long posts, it means too long; didn't read. It sums up what I'm saying. And I'm not saying trust Congress, but trust common sense thinking.

2.) And when I say the devil you know, I'm saying you shouldn't trust the Republicans and what many other so called Conservatives are saying so much. They all have their own agenda, and that includes stopping anything the Democrats are doing so they can call them a do-nothing Congress.

Remember how poorly the "Dracula" Congress was just a few days. And besides, Republicans themselves have more to answer to as well. They call themselves the party of fiscal responsibility but haven't been fiscally responsible since Coolidge.

3.) Social Security works in theory and in execution. The problem is that Presidents starting before Reagan but Reagan comes to mind especially in plundering Social Security to fund things. Social Security will have to adapt to the times as all things must. As for your 401k, it's fine.

4.) The whole "Dems are going to get rid of competition" was a right wing talking point. What the Democrats need to do is offer up one to two page bills that sum up different things in the Health Care Bill that they want to do. That way, it's easy to read, and then after you can do all the legalise writing as directed from the bill.

The senate plan will not have the public option plan because they all have already made deals so that wouldn't occur.

5.) Something can be well setup, however if it is ineffective in cost alone then it is ineffective. And yes, for too long, too many have felt the injustice of the Health Care system we have. May it be through too high costs, ineffective care, etc.

 

[Immanuel]

And my point is that they throw these ideas out there to see what kind of a response they get. Then if it is not too bad, they take it further. Remain silent and we have Health Insurance Destruction. Continue to remain silent and we have single payer health care.

tl;dr: What?

Trusting Congress to do the right thing is what got this country in so much trouble in the first place. Someone damned sure had better get paranoid!

Agreed. Maybe I stated it poorly above.

Not sure what you mean by me siding with the devil I know.

I like where my 401(k) is and I like having control over it. I dislike Social Security and can see the writing on the wall if Congress were to take control of my 401(k) or encourage us to give them control of it. No thank you!!!!

I completely agree. Competition does not need to be taken away, but the way the Democrats wrote the initial "Public Option" plan was set up to eliminate competition. They had language written forbidding private insurers from writing new policies. That would have destroyed the industry. If United Healthcare cannot take on new customers, then United Healthcare cannot survive. That was the government's plan and that would have been a disaster.

The Senate Plan did not have the Public Option, but who knows whether or not it will return in the reconciled version.

A public option would not be a terrible thing if it were competition based, but when you have the bottomless pit of the U.S. Treasury available to it, it would not compete on a level playing field.

No, not ineffective. Less efficient, yes, but not ineffective. Not even close to being ineffective.

Immie

1.) Again, the reaction from their own members of Congress was not well received, so you're worrying about nothing. It's not going to happen as none of them are going to commit political hari kari.

Tl;dr is for long posts, it means too long; didn't read. It sums up what I'm saying. And I'm not saying trust Congress, but trust common sense thinking.

2.) And when I say the devil you know, I'm saying you shouldn't trust the Republicans and what many other so called Conservatives are saying so much. They all have their own agenda, and that includes stopping anything the Democrats are doing so they can call them a do-nothing Congress.

Remember how poorly the "Dracula" Congress was just a few days. And besides, Republicans themselves have more to answer to as well. They call themselves the party of fiscal responsibility but haven't been fiscally responsible since Coolidge.

3.) Social Security works in theory and in execution. The problem is that Presidents starting before Reagan but Reagan comes to mind especially in plundering Social Security to fund things. Social Security will have to adapt to the times as all things must. As for your 401k, it's fine.

4.) The whole "Dems are going to get rid of competition" was a right wing talking point. What the Democrats need to do is offer up one to two page bills that sum up different things in the Health Care Bill that they want to do. That way, it's easy to read, and then after you can do all the legalise writing as directed from the bill.

The senate plan will not have the public option plan because they all have already made deals so that wouldn't occur.

5.) Something can be well setup, however if it is ineffective in cost alone then it is ineffective. And yes, for too long, too many have felt the injustice of the Health Care system we have. May it be through too high costs, ineffective care, etc.

Tl;dr

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

And my point is that they throw these ideas out there to see what kind of a response they get. Then if it is not too bad, they take it further. Remain silent and we have Health Insurance Destruction. Continue to remain silent and we have single payer health care.

tl;dr: What?

Trusting Congress to do the right thing is what got this country in so much trouble in the first place. Someone damned sure had better get paranoid!

Agreed. Maybe I stated it poorly above.

Not sure what you mean by me siding with the devil I know.

I like where my 401(k) is and I like having control over it. I dislike Social Security and can see the writing on the wall if Congress were to take control of my 401(k) or encourage us to give them control of it. No thank you!!!!

I completely agree. Competition does not need to be taken away, but the way the Democrats wrote the initial "Public Option" plan was set up to eliminate competition. They had language written forbidding private insurers from writing new policies. That would have destroyed the industry. If United Healthcare cannot take on new customers, then United Healthcare cannot survive. That was the government's plan and that would have been a disaster.

The Senate Plan did not have the Public Option, but who knows whether or not it will return in the reconciled version.

A public option would not be a terrible thing if it were competition based, but when you have the bottomless pit of the U.S. Treasury available to it, it would not compete on a level playing field.

No, not ineffective. Less efficient, yes, but not ineffective. Not even close to being ineffective.

Immie

1.) Again, the reaction from their own members of Congress was not well received, so you're worrying about nothing. It's not going to happen as none of them are going to commit political hari kari.

Tl;dr is for long posts, it means too long; didn't read. It sums up what I'm saying. And I'm not saying trust Congress, but trust common sense thinking.

2.) And when I say the devil you know, I'm saying you shouldn't trust the Republicans and what many other so called Conservatives are saying so much. They all have their own agenda, and that includes stopping anything the Democrats are doing so they can call them a do-nothing Congress.

Remember how poorly the "Dracula" Congress was just a few days. And besides, Republicans themselves have more to answer to as well. They call themselves the party of fiscal responsibility but haven't been fiscally responsible since Coolidge.

3.) Social Security works in theory and in execution. The problem is that Presidents starting before Reagan but Reagan comes to mind especially in plundering Social Security to fund things. Social Security will have to adapt to the times as all things must. As for your 401k, it's fine.

4.) The whole "Dems are going to get rid of competition" was a right wing talking point. What the Democrats need to do is offer up one to two page bills that sum up different things in the Health Care Bill that they want to do. That way, it's easy to read, and then after you can do all the legalise writing as directed from the bill.

The senate plan will not have the public option plan because they all have already made deals so that wouldn't occur.

5.) Something can be well setup, however if it is ineffective in cost alone then it is ineffective. And yes, for too long, too many have felt the injustice of the Health Care system we have. May it be through too high costs, ineffective care, etc.

1) I don't think I said it would happen, but if we simply kept quiet and let them work on it, it could happen or something similar.

2) Me trust the Republicans? Are you kidding me? First of all, I only commented on the idea nothing else. The idea of giving my retirement savings to the government is... well, nauseating to say the least.

3) Social Security was a good idea with good intentions when it was initiated. It is time for it to grow up.

4) No, it was not a Republican thing. The moment I read the bill and saw that private insurers could not write new plans, I with my lowly four year degree in Finance realized that would spell the end of the industry. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Change the language of the plan and we will see. Leave it so that private insurers can't write new policies and it will end private insurance or make them into sock puppets of the government which is probably worse.

5) Maybe you should define ineffective. To me, ineffective means "does not work". Inefficient, the word I used, means that it works but not in the best possible or most desirable way.

Immie

 

[Modbert]

tl;dr

Immie